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Fantasy PL thoughts

Blogs > InFiNitY[pG]
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InFiNitY[pG]
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
Germany3474 Posts
January 15 2009 23:05 GMT
#1
So, I got a little time to spare, and, as many of you, have put a lot of thought into my PL team, and while I was pretty happy with it yesterday, recent events made me think about changing it all over again, we will see.
PS: This is gonna be long.
First of all, I must say that I never actually played any Fantsay league, so I have yet to grasp the whole concept of it, however, I made three basic rules regarding my team.

1. Pick two players from each race, so you can easily trade underperformers.
2. Pick six players from different teams so I can gain as many team victory points as possible.
3. Pick players that either
- are able to win a lot of games in a row ( S-class, so to say )
- are almost always in their team's lineup
- fill up with cheap players that are on winning teams and have a positive PL record even though they aren't in the lineup that often
- don't gamble with supposedly strong players that are too expensive and inexperienced
- do not get a strong player from a weak team if you can afford a strong player from a strong team instead

I feel that there are three basic strategies that stand behind most teams.

a) pick 3 top players and fill up with 3 cheap ones
b) pick 2 top players, fill up with medium priced
c) pick only players from the 3-6 point range to have no weakest link.

Obviously method C is a pretty safe bet to end up above average, but also one that probably will give you no chance to win the whole thing, whereas method b is a huge gamble, with people relying heavily on two strong, expensive players and 4 underdogs.
In order to score high, your expensive players must play on a constantly high level, while your cheap players must exceed expectations.
I felt that method a is a good compromise.

Now for the most difficult part, picking players. I will break them down by race and talk a bit about plausible choices from my perspective, going from expensive to medium and finishing up with the cheap picks.

Let's start with Terran, which I guess for most people will be the easiest to pick.

expensive

Leta: Starting out with the strongest, by far most expensive player this season. People picking Leta will most probably go for method b, thus relying completely on Leta winning pretty much every single game.
You have to bet big to win big they say, to me, Leta seemed a couple poins too expensive without being signitficantly more promising than the players in the 7-10 Point range

Mind: right now he seems back in shape, but he's too inconsisten for me. Also plays for one of the weaker teams, thus not worth 10 points in my view.

Flash: Flash is a safe bet if you go for an S-Class terran, he is 4 points cheaper than Leta, having a similarly beastly record, fully capable of an all-kill. Unfortunately, he is the only consistent player in KTF, which means he will most probably not get as many points for team wins as Leta will.

medium
After those two we have a long list of players at 4-6 points, either being inconsistent as hell, unproven, or weak at one matchup. Which means, picking one of these guys will be a gamble. If you want to pick one of these guys, here's my advice:

If you don't plan on picking JD and don't plan on filling your team up with a weak Lecaf Player, go with Hiya or ForGG ( both 6-4 in their last 10 PL games, but Hiya has a 4 win streak right now, so I would favor him)

If you have Lecaf covered elsewhere and still want a medium priced terran, I would suggest FBH or UpMagic (both 7-3 in their last 10), again depending on your other players' teams.

Sea and Light are other viable picks if you don't like FBH and Up, especially with MBC probably ending up giving you more points than estro.

If you want to gamble on possible future star, go with skyhigh. Players I would not recommend are Really, Hwasin and Fantasy, which seem to expensive for their value.

cheap

I will keep this short and simple as there are way too many possible picks, if you wanna go with a cheap terran, pick depending on which team in the top 5 you have not covered elsewhere, try to go with a player that is in a good team rather than a player that plays a lot and loses a lot/is in a weak team. Good picks imo would be:

Lomo for Lecaf, Ruby for MBC, Boxer for SKT, Notice for STX, Propose or Frozean for KHAN (though I would highly suggest you cover KHAN somewhere else)


Next up, the Protoss guys, a little harder than terran, with 6 Dragons and two dark horses at 5 points or more

expensive

Best/Bisu: If you can afford it (if you didn't pick JD, Mind or Leta basically) get at least one of those two. They are both 9-1 in their last ten PL games, and in spite of falling short in the individual leagues, still are among the very best players in the world, which means: They can break streaks; they can go 4-0 easily; they will probably get a lot of points for SKT. Thus making them the perfect choice for a Fantasy Team, especially with the lack of alternatives in the SKT lineup.
Right now I would say Best seems a little sharper, so I will probably pick him myself.

Jangbi/Stork: Both significantly cheaper than the SKT dragons, which means if you want an S-class toss and don't have 9 points to spare, here's your chance.
If you have KHAN covered through FBH or possibly Great, I would suggest choosing the cheaper Free or Kal over one of these, if not, I highly suggest picking Jangbi, who seems as sharp as ever, probably the cheapest of the very top players right now. Stork seems to be in a little slump at the moment, without any indication that he will do better than Free or Kal this season, I would advice you to only pick him if you have no one else from KHAN.

Free/Kal: Both very solid 5 Point picks, if you have the points and need another strong toss, go with either of them. Both are very similar and playing in teams that may or may do not well next season, since the players from STX (Hwasin, July, Calm) and Stars (GGPlay, Zero) are highly unpredictable, even though they all look sharper than during the last couple of months.

Young/SangHo: I wouldn't recommend picking either of these. Young seems to expensive and too unproven to be worth a 5 point gamble, whereas SangHo is too inconsistent, as well as playing in a weaker team.

cheap

within the low value players, I feel the ones worth picking are Pusan for MBC, Much for CJ, TT for KHAN, Horang2 or Spear for OGN, Doctor.K for SKT, sOO or Shuttle for STX, maybe Guemchi for Stars if you feel like gambling


Now onto the most difficult race (even in Fantasy Picking): The Zerg
I believe that the success of your team will be highly dependant on how your Zerg will do. We have a ton of up and comers alongside several old school zergs trying to find their way back to the top (Savior, July, GGPlay, Lux).

expensive

Jaedong: Like Leta, Jaedong is damn expensive. Too expensive for my taste, given his recent results. I don't think he has an edge over the players in the 7-9 point range.

Effort: Effort is doing well, while CJ isn't. As I previously stated, I would rather pick a strong player in a strong team than a strong player in a weak team, so I wouldn't suggest picking him.

July: July, well, he's looking pretty impressive in Proleague these days. He is 9-1 in his last 10 PL games. However, he lost in MSL to Firefist and Doctor.K. If he keeps his current form, he's a bargain for 6 points, but with July you never know.

Great: He's 9-3 in PL, but with a 1-5 record against terran, he seems to be very vulnerable to being sniped. If you have no one else from Samsung, you should consider picking him anyways.

Yarnc: Similar to July, Yarnc definitely LOOKS good right now. He is also likely to give you lots of team points considering he plays with Leta, so I would say right now he's a viable pick if you don't have anyone else from OGN

medium

there are, as I said, a lot of players that are very hard to predict.
Calm to me looks like the best bet for 4 points. If you need an MBC Player, Saint is also viable, but he is only 6-11 vs Zerg.
The other 4 point Zergs all play in supposedly weaker teams such as Star or WeMade.
If you only have 3 points left, you can hope for Luxury making a comeback along with hoping that Flash will win the Ace matches for KTF, all in all doesn't seem worth the risk.
If you need an SKT player, TheZerg seems to be your best bet. Type-b if you don't have OGN players.

cheap

A lot of people will probably fill up their team with one of the 1 or 2 point zergs, hoping their breakthrough.

Viable Picks include Juni from Samsung, Shark or Hyun from MBC, Clay or Hogil from OGN, by.hero from STX and probably a lot more.

And last but not least, we have Savior. Call me nostalgic, but I think that he could be worth a lot more than 2 points, and a lot of people will probably have him in their team, especially after recent events. I haven't decided yet, but if I end up with 5 players, missing only a Zerg and having exactly 2 points left, I will pick him over any other Z without hesitation.


So that's about it, I probably forgot a bunch of players, but most of the ones I left out were on purpose, because I do not feel them worth picking.

Any comments are welcome of course.


****
"I just pressed stimpack, and somehow I won the battle" -Flash
Jonoman92
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States9104 Posts
January 15 2009 23:11 GMT
#2
Heh I'm sure my team won't be that good. I have no clue what players are in what team except for a few and I didn't want to spend time investigating. I figure for all the investigating one does pro-gaming can be unpredictable to might as well hope for the best!
Athos
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2484 Posts
January 15 2009 23:13 GMT
#3

Hidden gold:

Guemche; he's been almost every round by Woongjin and he's not that bad. Plus he's starting twice in this upcoming proleague already. That's a sign that they are confident in his abilities.
d_so
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)3262 Posts
January 15 2009 23:15 GMT
#4
one thing i'd like to add, which ultimately made me drop Stork:

Samsung is so loaded that their players could possibly compete against each other for points during the fantasy season. For example, if you have jangbi but FBH all kills, then you get no points. or if you have stork and jangbi all kills, the same. and etc.

since points are dependent on how much playing time a player gets, i believe the Samsung and SKT players have a significant chance of not getting to play and thereby score points, regardless of their talent level. Thinking along the same lines, I feel that Flash will ultimately be the top fantasy player this season, considering he will most likely be in EVERY game. Along the same lines, I picked Anytime as one of my core players because he is far and away ACE's best player.

Also, regarding Flash, much like how in fantasy football you pick a qb/wr from the same team for double points, I think the combo of Flash +KTF is too good to pass up. 8 points for potential double points is nuts
manner
n.DieJokes
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3443 Posts
January 15 2009 23:38 GMT
#5
sigh, time to change me team again
MyLove + Your Love= Supa Love
Fzero
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States1503 Posts
January 15 2009 23:46 GMT
#6
Why did you make a new blog? I wanted to have the discussion in one place. Oh well.
Never give up on something that you can't go a day without thinking about.
GHOSTCLAW
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States17042 Posts
January 15 2009 23:49 GMT
#7
I can see oversky or anytime both getting a ton of playtime for ace (probably the most of any players on ace) because of the all kill format. However, Both of them would need to be really really lucky to get the wins necssary for a team win.

I had the same thinking as d_so for both samsung and SKT1, as both teams are full of monsters. Jaedong on the other hand should be in every game. It increases his risk, but it could also increase the reward.
PhotographerLiquipedia. Drop me a pm if you've got questions/need help.
d_so
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)3262 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-16 00:43:21
January 16 2009 00:27 GMT
#8
On January 16 2009 08:46 FzeroXx wrote:
Why did you make a new blog? I wanted to have the discussion in one place. Oh well.


where is this blog, i want to read/post there
manner
ondik
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Czech Republic2908 Posts
January 16 2009 00:41 GMT
#9
You totally forgot about one guy, his name is mingu and he's gonna win fantasy PL for me!
Bisu. The one and only. // Save the cheerreaver, save the world (of SC2)
Fzero
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States1503 Posts
January 16 2009 00:49 GMT
#10
On January 16 2009 09:27 d_so wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2009 08:46 FzeroXx wrote:
Why did you make a new blog? I wanted to have the discussion in one place. Oh well.


where is this blog, i want to read/post there


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=86005
Never give up on something that you can't go a day without thinking about.
Manifesto7
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Osaka27156 Posts
January 16 2009 01:13 GMT
#11
On January 16 2009 08:46 FzeroXx wrote:
Why did you make a new blog? I wanted to have the discussion in one place. Oh well.


Because his thoughts are different from yours?
ModeratorGodfather
Manifesto7
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Osaka27156 Posts
January 16 2009 01:22 GMT
#12
Whereas you tried to spread your players out over six teams, I took a slightly different approach. I think Samsung is going to do well in this league, so I specifically chose two strong players from them. That way, I can double my points for when they in. I also took two players of the same race (Stork and Jangbi) because I am sure that one will definately play, and probably both will each week. Lastly I chose Samsung for my team as well, which continues to compound my points. Obviously if Samsung tanks, I am screwed, but you said you wanted to avoid mediocrity and I think stacking your lineup in favour of one team is helpful to go for broke.

After that I chose four players that I thought would play consistently, and would definitly be on the roster. UpMagic is a total steal, his performance last round was solid, and he is the type of player who can 4-0 a team (moreso than flash I think, too many people will gun for him). He is also going to play each week unless one of his teammates rips of a 3-0 or 4-0 run.

Yarnc isn't going to slump in this format. He will be steady, and I would be surprised to see him win less than 60%. He destroys everyone below him, but can't really pull off an upset. It depends how strongly he is sniped.

Ruby will be a late series streak breaker. I expect him to back up Sea in the MBC terran department as Light continues his freefall into obscurity. The MBC coach seems to like him a lot.

Iloveoov was my sentimental pick. With two points left the popular pick is savior, but I can't help remembering the last team league and how well oov did. My worry here is that he will struggle early and then never make another appearance behind Fantasy / Midas / Boxer. If he starts hot though, he could be a steal.
ModeratorGodfather
d(O.o)a
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada5066 Posts
January 16 2009 01:44 GMT
#13
Manifesto I am using a similar approach to you after reading your post because you are exactly right. I however went for boxer instead of ruby and Savior instead of Oov.

Reasoning (Short)

Iloveoov->Savior hurt his wrist and it is the reason that he had to quit being a progamer, now I feel that 4 games in a row from him at a consistent level of play will be very hard for him. That and like you said (T)fantasy/(T)Midas/(T)BoxeR all outshine him in his current condition.

Savior I feel he will at least be able to leach some Point off of (Z)EffOrt and (T)Iris even though he's not on the strongest team but he is still a consistent player for the most part and he is quite often on the lineup. + Show Spoiler [MSL] +
In his games against (P)Bisu and (Z)ZerO(Mensol) he had his rape face back on and he played them like a champion.


Ruby->Boxer Although (T)RuBy is an incredible zerg sniper and should be able to get a good amount of wins off of (T)Sea/(T)Light/(P)Pusan I feel SKT should dominate this season and I needed a player from there that cost 1 Point because I was switching (T)Oov and (Z)sAviOr.

Boxer (T)BoxeR could potentially have a Nice comeback, I have faith in him he has reinvented himself before and when he was on Ace he was their Only player who could consistently win games. (T)BoxeR will at least be given a try and I think that with the extra practice he'll be getting at the SKT house he will be able to dominate once again. [pray]

Hi.
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8147 Posts
January 16 2009 01:50 GMT
#14
I specifically tried not to get 2 players from the same team that were *really* good. I originally had Calm and July, but changed July for Sea. If you have 2 players that are both really good and on the same team (like FBH and Jangbi for example), you are sort of limiting your maximum point potential. When your players are all on different teams, you at least have the potential for all of them to get 2-4 wins in a row, whereas with 2 of them on the same team, your chances are much lower (if 1 guy gets 3 wins, the most the other guy can get is 1 win).
Free Palestine
caelym
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States6421 Posts
January 16 2009 03:40 GMT
#15
On January 16 2009 10:22 Manifesto7 wrote:
Ruby will be a late series streak breaker. I expect him to back up Sea in the MBC terran department as Light continues his freefall into obscurity. The MBC coach seems to like him a lot.

i believed in him last season, and here's what i got: one or two lineup appearances. and i couldn't trade even him away. never again.
bnet: caelym#1470 | Twitter: @caelym
Fzero
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States1503 Posts
January 16 2009 04:02 GMT
#16
On January 16 2009 10:13 Manifesto7 wrote:
Because his thoughts are different from yours?


Yeah, no worries. I didn't want people to have to search everywhere to find it, but two blogs isn't horrible.
Never give up on something that you can't go a day without thinking about.
InFiNitY[pG]
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
Germany3474 Posts
January 16 2009 07:15 GMT
#17
after a lot of thinking I decided on the Jaedong/flash/Jangi team, which seems inredibly powerful for 25 points, which leaves me with 5 points for 3 players.
Right now I'm leaning towards Savior/Horang2/Boxer, but that's not decided yet.
"I just pressed stimpack, and somehow I won the battle" -Flash
BloodyC0bbler
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
Canada7876 Posts
January 16 2009 07:28 GMT
#18
For my team, I instantly chose great, the guy is a huge up and comer on samsung and is performing fairly well for his point range(has been for months) and because i have really high hopes for him, i made him my team captain.

Next to round off the team i snagged fbh and jangbi. All three of these initial picks are from Samsung which is my fave team, and all three seem to get decent playtime in proleague(specially fbh and jangbi).

As i had already invested so many points in samsung, i snagged them as my main team for more points.

That left me with three player choices, I snagged both movie and MVP as they are performing well, and seem to get some play time, then shark for my last slot for being cheap and semi decent for his point range.

I honestly wanted to purely make a samsung team, but realized just how bad it was and invested in some potential up and comers. But most likely if samsung flops this round im screwed.
#3 Member of the Chill Fanclub / Rhaegar fought nobly. Rhaegar fought valiantly. Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaeger died. --Ser Jorah Mormont TL MAFIA FORUM http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 go go !
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