• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 10:04
CET 16:04
KST 00:04
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced10[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge2
StarCraft 2
General
BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA When will we find out if there are more tournament Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 3 Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle [Alpha Pro Series] Nice vs Cure $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death
Brood War
General
A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Which season is the best in ASL? soO on: FanTaSy's Potential Return to StarCraft
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? Current Meta PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread The Perfect Game Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Big Programming Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Where to ask questions and add stream? The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Esports Earnings: Bigger Pri…
TrAiDoS
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1340 users

Who the hell coded 1.16? - Page 3

Blogs > R1CH
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
funkie
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Venezuela9376 Posts
December 16 2008 15:04 GMT
#41
On December 16 2008 23:01 tec27 wrote:
I'm pretty sure whoever programmed that part of the patch jsut rolled some dice to pick the sleeping time. That's how all the good programmers do it, anyhow

Also, the reason its probably taking so long for 1.16.1 is that they are actually putting it through its QA paces this time, unlike last time Can't release two crappy patches in a row (or can they?)



Heh, well, Blizzard has never ceased to amaze me, so What do you know ;D:
CJ Entusman #6! · Strength is the basis of athletic ability. -Rippetoe /* http://j.mp/TL-App <- TL iPhone App 2.0! */
FreeZEternal
Profile Joined January 2003
Korea (South)3396 Posts
December 16 2008 15:18 GMT
#42
well, obviously this was not tested in QA before pushing it live. At least this is just a game, same thing happened in the place I work, Production went down for half a day...do you know how much money is that? lol
miseiler
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States1389 Posts
December 16 2008 17:07 GMT
#43
I can't believe how straightforward this is. And like someone mentioned earlier in the thread, it seems exactly like something I would do as well, having zero experience in real time programming.

I'll bet a 1 ms delay never occurred to him/her, either.

Thought process:
"Huh. CPU overloaded. What happens if I introduce a 5 ms delay here?"
"Nice! It worked! I told my boss it'd take a week, so I think I'll get paid to play the D3 beta for a while."
"Jinro soo manly wearing only a T-Shirt while the Koreans freeze in their jackets" -- Double_O
"He's from Sweden, man. We have to fight polar bears on our way to school." -- Yusername
Disastorm
Profile Joined January 2008
United States922 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-16 17:17:29
December 16 2008 17:14 GMT
#44
so wait i dont understand. why did the devs put a random 10 msecond delay loop in the middle of their code? was that their solution to removing the 100% cpu usage? so if i understand correctly, their code is less efficient than CPU Savior which only adds 1 msecond delay?
"Don't worry so much man. There won't be any more zergs left to QQ. Lots of QQ about TvT is incoming though I bet." - Vrok 9/21/10
Scorch
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Austria3371 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-16 17:23:12
December 16 2008 17:22 GMT
#45
On December 17 2008 02:14 Disastorm wrote:
so wait i dont understand. why did the devs put a random 10 msecond delay loop in the middle of their code? was that their solution to removing the 100% cpu usage? so if i understand correctly, their code is less efficient than CPU Savior which only adds 1 msecond delay?

I don't know any specifics, but my guess is that stuff is ten times as responsive if the sleep lasts only 1ms instead of 10ms. No sleeping at all results in busy waiting and thus 100% load.
MasterOfChaos
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Germany2896 Posts
December 16 2008 17:52 GMT
#46
Things are not that simple. The delay passed to sleep is a minimum delay. The function only returns at the next tick after the minimum delay has elapsed. On my comp the tick occurs every 16ms, on older comps/OS that interval can be up to 55ms.
The tick interval can be changed by a program at global level, affecting the whole system. Afaik CPU-Savior does that.
The mistakes blizzard made are not that noobish as some of you thought. The early CPU-Savior versions had similar problems. And the ingame lag does not occur on every comp (or atleast some people like me don't notice it).
The main problem is that it passed QA(or was not send to QA at all).
The /r bug is a real wtf on the other hand.
LiquipediaOne eye to kill. Two eyes to live.
Ki_Do
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Korea (South)981 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-16 18:32:20
December 16 2008 18:31 GMT
#47
noobish or not
rich/you and not blizzard programmers fixed many of problems like this.
maybe you and him could be hired too,bet u would be successful breaking sc2 engine
I've got a point, and i'm ready to kill or die for it.
Equinox_kr
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States7395 Posts
December 16 2008 19:11 GMT
#48
R1CH BRINGING DOWN THE PAIN
^-^
Night[Mare
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
Mexico4793 Posts
December 16 2008 19:21 GMT
#49
wow rich i hope i'll be as good programmer as you someday :D
Teamliquidian townie
floor exercise
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada5847 Posts
December 16 2008 19:23 GMT
#50
I understand how this could happen when CPU savior did the same thing. I even understand not having a ton of testing go into these patches since SC is really old and frankly for it to be updated at all anymore is surprising. What I don't like is that this patch has been out for how long now? There was feedback about how awful 1.16 runs on some peoples computers hours after the patch was released. There's even detailed explanations why from people like r1ch, so why has there not been a followup patch yet to fix this?
Not_Computer
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada2277 Posts
December 16 2008 19:27 GMT
#51
R1CH is amazing :o
"Jaedong hyung better be ready. I'm going to order the most expensive dinner in Korea."
ZergZoul
Profile Joined April 2007
Mexico408 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-16 19:44:24
December 16 2008 19:44 GMT
#52
R1CH can see the matrix code... He Is The One!
Racenilatr
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States2756 Posts
December 16 2008 19:55 GMT
#53
lol I love ur language R1ch! It actually makes sense to me....but even if i tried i would never be able to apply it :D Still all very reasonable though and its easy to follow on.
BloodyC0bbler
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
Canada7876 Posts
December 16 2008 20:36 GMT
#54
R1ch, single handedly bitch slapping the man with each failed if statement
#3 Member of the Chill Fanclub / Rhaegar fought nobly. Rhaegar fought valiantly. Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaeger died. --Ser Jorah Mormont TL MAFIA FORUM http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 go go !
Bill307
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Canada9103 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-16 20:50:27
December 16 2008 20:41 GMT
#55
On December 17 2008 02:52 MasterOfChaos wrote:
Things are not that simple. The delay passed to sleep is a minimum delay. The function only returns at the next tick after the minimum delay has elapsed. On my comp the tick occurs every 16ms, on older comps/OS that interval can be up to 55ms.
The tick interval can be changed by a program at global level, affecting the whole system. Afaik CPU-Savior does that.
The mistakes blizzard made are not that noobish as some of you thought. The early CPU-Savior versions had similar problems. And the ingame lag does not occur on every comp (or atleast some people like me don't notice it).
The main problem is that it passed QA(or was not send to QA at all).
The /r bug is a real wtf on the other hand.

The other main problem with this bug is that the programmer did not contact the developers of CPU-Savior to ask them how they implemented it and what kinds of problems they ran into during testing.

Whether this was the fault of the programmer for being ignorant or naive, or the fault of a ridiculous non-disclosure agreement that prohibited him from asking such a harmless question, we'll never know.


As for the /r bug, QA definitely deserves major blame for that one regardless of how WTF-ish the implementation was. Honestly, whoever was responsible for testing that feature is a mediocre tester at best, definitely not the kind of guy you'd expect to be working for Blizzard. A message like ".r test" should have been an obvious test case and it takes about 2 seconds to verify it.
b3h47pte
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States1317 Posts
December 16 2008 22:47 GMT
#56
On December 16 2008 20:06 freelander wrote:
thx for the explanation.
this is my 3rd semester studying c++, i am making (lame) games with SDL, so i am interested in this stuff where is the good places in the game loop to put delays.
i have learnt some microcontroller programming meanwhile so I can understand some part of the assembly

i will check out this ollydbg stuff, I haven't heard about it yet but sounds great


if you're focused on making games, Assembly probably isn't THAT relevant to what you want to do. Assembly is probalby only helpful if you plan on making anti-hacks or something of that sort.
GearitUP
Profile Joined November 2008
United States337 Posts
December 16 2008 23:51 GMT
#57
Awesome discovery, I been wondering why these problems were occuring however I have to agree with

On December 16 2008 19:23 Plexa wrote:
First step in making SC obsolete in preparation for SC2


i believe this is true :/
Own<Owned<Ownt<Pwn<Pwned<PwnT< YOU NEWB!
Ganfei
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Taiwan1439 Posts
December 17 2008 00:07 GMT
#58
well if iccup adds that 3v3 ladder then screw bnet, don't need it for anything anymore
You are crushing me like a cheese sandwich
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-17 00:21:16
December 17 2008 00:20 GMT
#59
Yea, they really have a tester problem. I bet they don't even test it properly. Guy probably just makes the code and makes sure it works then passes it up (without checking for side effects).

They really need to consult outside programmers like MoC, Tec27(the adv loader guy, sorry i forget ur name :/), and you r1ch.

I was just discussing this with EchoOfRain on bnet yesterday. He said that they changed the ports or something too? I don't think he was right.
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
R1CH
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Netherlands10341 Posts
December 17 2008 00:25 GMT
#60
On December 17 2008 02:52 MasterOfChaos wrote:
Things are not that simple. The delay passed to sleep is a minimum delay. The function only returns at the next tick after the minimum delay has elapsed. On my comp the tick occurs every 16ms, on older comps/OS that interval can be up to 55ms.

This too was another wtf, they added sleeps without setting the timer resolution to 1ms! So every Sleep could be up to 16ms, however as my test program I posted on my previous blog showed, most people have high timer resolutions to begin with.
AdministratorTwitter: @R1CH_TL
TL+ Member
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Korean Royale
12:00
Playoffs
NightMare vs ClassicLIVE!
TBD vs Solar
Zoun vs Creator
WardiTV943
TKL 305
IndyStarCraft 190
Rex131
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko480
TKL 305
IndyStarCraft 190
Rex 131
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 39506
Rain 3303
Larva 1161
Stork 810
Mini 774
Soulkey 557
Rush 470
ZerO 457
firebathero 390
hero 331
[ Show more ]
BeSt 292
PianO 184
Barracks 112
Hyun 101
sorry 65
Sharp 63
Mong 57
Backho 54
Leta 35
ToSsGirL 27
Aegong 26
scan(afreeca) 17
Rock 16
Terrorterran 15
IntoTheRainbow 12
Dota 2
Gorgc5027
singsing2625
XcaliburYe341
420jenkins217
febbydoto13
Counter-Strike
fl0m4058
zeus2278
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor328
Liquid`Hasu51
Other Games
B2W.Neo1543
DeMusliM387
Happy290
Pyrionflax244
Fuzer 222
Mew2King144
ZerO(Twitch)28
Organizations
Other Games
EGCTV223
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream208
Other Games
BasetradeTV68
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 10
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 7972
• Ler92
League of Legends
• Jankos2869
Upcoming Events
OSC
1h 56m
BSL 21
4h 56m
TerrOr vs Dewalt
Semih vs Tech
Sparkling Tuna Cup
18h 56m
WardiTV Korean Royale
20h 56m
TBD vs SHIN
TBD vs Reynor
TBD vs herO
BSL 21
1d 4h
Hawk vs Kyrie
spx vs Cross
Replay Cast
1d 8h
Wardi Open
1d 20h
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
StarCraft2.fi
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
2 days
StarCraft2.fi
3 days
PiGosaur Monday
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
StarCraft2.fi
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
SC Evo League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

SOOP Univ League 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
Slon Tour Season 2
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.