• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 09:04
CET 15:04
KST 23:04
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview8Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info3herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win3Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)38
StarCraft 2
General
HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview StarCraft 2 Not at the Esports World Cup 2026 Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational
Tourneys
HomeStory Cup 28 KSL Week 85 $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) OSC Season 13 World Championship $70 Prize Pool Ladder Legends Academy Weekly Open!
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 510 Safety Violation Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained
Brood War
General
Bleak Future After Failed ProGaming Career [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates BW General Discussion Potential ASL qualifier breakthroughs? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2 [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Current Meta Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Path of Exile Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Hager werken embalming powder+27 81 711 1572
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
YouTube Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Esports Advertising Shap…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1520 users

Who the hell coded 1.16? - Page 3

Blogs > R1CH
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
funkie
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Venezuela9376 Posts
December 16 2008 15:04 GMT
#41
On December 16 2008 23:01 tec27 wrote:
I'm pretty sure whoever programmed that part of the patch jsut rolled some dice to pick the sleeping time. That's how all the good programmers do it, anyhow

Also, the reason its probably taking so long for 1.16.1 is that they are actually putting it through its QA paces this time, unlike last time Can't release two crappy patches in a row (or can they?)



Heh, well, Blizzard has never ceased to amaze me, so What do you know ;D:
CJ Entusman #6! · Strength is the basis of athletic ability. -Rippetoe /* http://j.mp/TL-App <- TL iPhone App 2.0! */
FreeZEternal
Profile Joined January 2003
Korea (South)3396 Posts
December 16 2008 15:18 GMT
#42
well, obviously this was not tested in QA before pushing it live. At least this is just a game, same thing happened in the place I work, Production went down for half a day...do you know how much money is that? lol
miseiler
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States1389 Posts
December 16 2008 17:07 GMT
#43
I can't believe how straightforward this is. And like someone mentioned earlier in the thread, it seems exactly like something I would do as well, having zero experience in real time programming.

I'll bet a 1 ms delay never occurred to him/her, either.

Thought process:
"Huh. CPU overloaded. What happens if I introduce a 5 ms delay here?"
"Nice! It worked! I told my boss it'd take a week, so I think I'll get paid to play the D3 beta for a while."
"Jinro soo manly wearing only a T-Shirt while the Koreans freeze in their jackets" -- Double_O
"He's from Sweden, man. We have to fight polar bears on our way to school." -- Yusername
Disastorm
Profile Joined January 2008
United States922 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-16 17:17:29
December 16 2008 17:14 GMT
#44
so wait i dont understand. why did the devs put a random 10 msecond delay loop in the middle of their code? was that their solution to removing the 100% cpu usage? so if i understand correctly, their code is less efficient than CPU Savior which only adds 1 msecond delay?
"Don't worry so much man. There won't be any more zergs left to QQ. Lots of QQ about TvT is incoming though I bet." - Vrok 9/21/10
Scorch
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Austria3371 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-16 17:23:12
December 16 2008 17:22 GMT
#45
On December 17 2008 02:14 Disastorm wrote:
so wait i dont understand. why did the devs put a random 10 msecond delay loop in the middle of their code? was that their solution to removing the 100% cpu usage? so if i understand correctly, their code is less efficient than CPU Savior which only adds 1 msecond delay?

I don't know any specifics, but my guess is that stuff is ten times as responsive if the sleep lasts only 1ms instead of 10ms. No sleeping at all results in busy waiting and thus 100% load.
MasterOfChaos
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Germany2896 Posts
December 16 2008 17:52 GMT
#46
Things are not that simple. The delay passed to sleep is a minimum delay. The function only returns at the next tick after the minimum delay has elapsed. On my comp the tick occurs every 16ms, on older comps/OS that interval can be up to 55ms.
The tick interval can be changed by a program at global level, affecting the whole system. Afaik CPU-Savior does that.
The mistakes blizzard made are not that noobish as some of you thought. The early CPU-Savior versions had similar problems. And the ingame lag does not occur on every comp (or atleast some people like me don't notice it).
The main problem is that it passed QA(or was not send to QA at all).
The /r bug is a real wtf on the other hand.
LiquipediaOne eye to kill. Two eyes to live.
Ki_Do
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Korea (South)981 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-16 18:32:20
December 16 2008 18:31 GMT
#47
noobish or not
rich/you and not blizzard programmers fixed many of problems like this.
maybe you and him could be hired too,bet u would be successful breaking sc2 engine
I've got a point, and i'm ready to kill or die for it.
Equinox_kr
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States7395 Posts
December 16 2008 19:11 GMT
#48
R1CH BRINGING DOWN THE PAIN
^-^
Night[Mare
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
Mexico4793 Posts
December 16 2008 19:21 GMT
#49
wow rich i hope i'll be as good programmer as you someday :D
Teamliquidian townie
floor exercise
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada5847 Posts
December 16 2008 19:23 GMT
#50
I understand how this could happen when CPU savior did the same thing. I even understand not having a ton of testing go into these patches since SC is really old and frankly for it to be updated at all anymore is surprising. What I don't like is that this patch has been out for how long now? There was feedback about how awful 1.16 runs on some peoples computers hours after the patch was released. There's even detailed explanations why from people like r1ch, so why has there not been a followup patch yet to fix this?
Not_Computer
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada2277 Posts
December 16 2008 19:27 GMT
#51
R1CH is amazing :o
"Jaedong hyung better be ready. I'm going to order the most expensive dinner in Korea."
ZergZoul
Profile Joined April 2007
Mexico408 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-16 19:44:24
December 16 2008 19:44 GMT
#52
R1CH can see the matrix code... He Is The One!
Racenilatr
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States2756 Posts
December 16 2008 19:55 GMT
#53
lol I love ur language R1ch! It actually makes sense to me....but even if i tried i would never be able to apply it :D Still all very reasonable though and its easy to follow on.
BloodyC0bbler
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
Canada7876 Posts
December 16 2008 20:36 GMT
#54
R1ch, single handedly bitch slapping the man with each failed if statement
#3 Member of the Chill Fanclub / Rhaegar fought nobly. Rhaegar fought valiantly. Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaeger died. --Ser Jorah Mormont TL MAFIA FORUM http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 go go !
Bill307
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Canada9103 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-16 20:50:27
December 16 2008 20:41 GMT
#55
On December 17 2008 02:52 MasterOfChaos wrote:
Things are not that simple. The delay passed to sleep is a minimum delay. The function only returns at the next tick after the minimum delay has elapsed. On my comp the tick occurs every 16ms, on older comps/OS that interval can be up to 55ms.
The tick interval can be changed by a program at global level, affecting the whole system. Afaik CPU-Savior does that.
The mistakes blizzard made are not that noobish as some of you thought. The early CPU-Savior versions had similar problems. And the ingame lag does not occur on every comp (or atleast some people like me don't notice it).
The main problem is that it passed QA(or was not send to QA at all).
The /r bug is a real wtf on the other hand.

The other main problem with this bug is that the programmer did not contact the developers of CPU-Savior to ask them how they implemented it and what kinds of problems they ran into during testing.

Whether this was the fault of the programmer for being ignorant or naive, or the fault of a ridiculous non-disclosure agreement that prohibited him from asking such a harmless question, we'll never know.


As for the /r bug, QA definitely deserves major blame for that one regardless of how WTF-ish the implementation was. Honestly, whoever was responsible for testing that feature is a mediocre tester at best, definitely not the kind of guy you'd expect to be working for Blizzard. A message like ".r test" should have been an obvious test case and it takes about 2 seconds to verify it.
b3h47pte
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States1317 Posts
December 16 2008 22:47 GMT
#56
On December 16 2008 20:06 freelander wrote:
thx for the explanation.
this is my 3rd semester studying c++, i am making (lame) games with SDL, so i am interested in this stuff where is the good places in the game loop to put delays.
i have learnt some microcontroller programming meanwhile so I can understand some part of the assembly

i will check out this ollydbg stuff, I haven't heard about it yet but sounds great


if you're focused on making games, Assembly probably isn't THAT relevant to what you want to do. Assembly is probalby only helpful if you plan on making anti-hacks or something of that sort.
GearitUP
Profile Joined November 2008
United States337 Posts
December 16 2008 23:51 GMT
#57
Awesome discovery, I been wondering why these problems were occuring however I have to agree with

On December 16 2008 19:23 Plexa wrote:
First step in making SC obsolete in preparation for SC2


i believe this is true :/
Own<Owned<Ownt<Pwn<Pwned<PwnT< YOU NEWB!
Ganfei
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Taiwan1439 Posts
December 17 2008 00:07 GMT
#58
well if iccup adds that 3v3 ladder then screw bnet, don't need it for anything anymore
You are crushing me like a cheese sandwich
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-17 00:21:16
December 17 2008 00:20 GMT
#59
Yea, they really have a tester problem. I bet they don't even test it properly. Guy probably just makes the code and makes sure it works then passes it up (without checking for side effects).

They really need to consult outside programmers like MoC, Tec27(the adv loader guy, sorry i forget ur name :/), and you r1ch.

I was just discussing this with EchoOfRain on bnet yesterday. He said that they changed the ports or something too? I don't think he was right.
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
R1CH
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Netherlands10341 Posts
December 17 2008 00:25 GMT
#60
On December 17 2008 02:52 MasterOfChaos wrote:
Things are not that simple. The delay passed to sleep is a minimum delay. The function only returns at the next tick after the minimum delay has elapsed. On my comp the tick occurs every 16ms, on older comps/OS that interval can be up to 55ms.

This too was another wtf, they added sleeps without setting the timer resolution to 1ms! So every Sleep could be up to 16ms, however as my test program I posted on my previous blog showed, most people have high timer resolutions to begin with.
AdministratorTwitter: @R1CH_TL
TL+ Member
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
HomeStory Cup
12:00
Day 1
TaKeTV2171
ComeBackTV 823
IndyStarCraft 354
TaKeSeN 251
SteadfastSC248
Rex145
3DClanTV 97
CosmosSc2 91
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 354
SteadfastSC 248
Rex 145
CosmosSc2 91
StarCraft: Brood War
Flash 3199
Bisu 2663
Jaedong 1510
Shuttle 1463
PianO 1234
Larva 832
Soma 817
BeSt 583
firebathero 582
Hyuk 424
[ Show more ]
actioN 387
Light 307
Snow 276
EffOrt 259
Zeus 217
Mini 188
Sharp 132
Soulkey 107
Hyun 100
ggaemo 84
Dewaltoss 81
Rush 67
scan(afreeca) 56
Sea.KH 52
Mind 47
Mong 47
Bale 47
[sc1f]eonzerg 40
Movie 40
Shine 37
ToSsGirL 36
Free 36
NotJumperer 34
Backho 31
HiyA 24
sorry 23
Shinee 22
zelot 18
NaDa 17
soO 16
910 15
Terrorterran 14
GoRush 13
SilentControl 12
Sacsri 11
ajuk12(nOOB) 5
Dota 2
Gorgc2594
qojqva1952
singsing1809
Fuzer 158
XcaliburYe126
420jenkins96
Counter-Strike
fl0m3237
olofmeister2354
zeus1177
oskar93
Other Games
gofns15088
B2W.Neo1647
crisheroes437
hiko400
Hui .282
Mew2King79
djWHEAT0
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 68
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix3
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3880
• WagamamaTV173
League of Legends
• Jankos3716
• Stunt998
• TFBlade587
Upcoming Events
Korean StarCraft League
12h 57m
HomeStory Cup
21h 57m
Replay Cast
1d 9h
HomeStory Cup
1d 22h
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-29
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS4
Escore Tournament S1: W6
Rongyi Cup S3
HSC XXVIII
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W7
Escore Tournament S1: W8
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.