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On December 02 2008 05:31 ManBearPig wrote:
I never said you can tie a person to his memories.
But still you argued that you could not say that its the same person if they have a memory loss, can you make up your mind?
Look at what you wrote in this post, and what I said in the post you replied too:
On December 01 2008 01:17 ManBearPig wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 10:13 Klockan3 wrote:On November 30 2008 09:52 travis wrote:On November 30 2008 09:28 DamageControL wrote:On November 30 2008 04:31 travis wrote:
I think the ultimate drive force for good and a higher morality is the understanding that the only thing separating your experiences and the experiences of another is "when" and "where". So you believe nurture creates our personalities and by nature were all the same? EDIT: clarification EDIT 2: If so, how did you arrive at this belief? Because I believe intelligence, at the very least, exists to some extent. That changes decisions, and thereby changes experiences. Other things, such as emotional quotient are also pre-determined to some extent. They can be developed, but your base talent (for lack of a better word) at these subjects comes in to play + Show Spoiler +yadyadya just my opinion, not trying to pick a fight, just truly wondering how you arrived at your conclusion I don't think I am a body or a brain. Sure, intelligence - in whatever terms it is defined - exists. And you can say that it determines [x]. Or you can say that genetics determines [y]. Or that your upbringing determines [z]. But none of these things are me. My experiences are linked to them, sure. But they are not those things theirselves. I am not my body or my brain. I am my experiences. So how is this different from spirituality or any other kind of new age crap? Fact is, we can erase your memory and you will still be you, just without your "experiences". Ok I just have to say, this is a really stupid definition of 'self' you're using. The one travis used made a lot more sense. Also, just because something is 'spiritual' doesn't mean it's false or 'new age crap'.
and as for:
On December 02 2008 05:31 ManBearPig wrote:
What the hell is 'strawmans' ?
A strawman argument is when you instead of confronting the real arguments of the opponent build your own altered versions of his arguments which are usually much easier to beat down and then beats those arguments deliberately, thinking that you just owned a discussion.
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On December 02 2008 06:18 Klockan3 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2008 05:31 ManBearPig wrote:
I never said you can tie a person to his memories.
But still you argued that you could not say that its the same person if they have a memory loss, can you make up your mind? Look at what you wrote in this post, and what I said in the post you replied too: Show nested quote +On December 01 2008 01:17 ManBearPig wrote:On November 30 2008 10:13 Klockan3 wrote:On November 30 2008 09:52 travis wrote:On November 30 2008 09:28 DamageControL wrote:On November 30 2008 04:31 travis wrote:
I think the ultimate drive force for good and a higher morality is the understanding that the only thing separating your experiences and the experiences of another is "when" and "where". So you believe nurture creates our personalities and by nature were all the same? EDIT: clarification EDIT 2: If so, how did you arrive at this belief? Because I believe intelligence, at the very least, exists to some extent. That changes decisions, and thereby changes experiences. Other things, such as emotional quotient are also pre-determined to some extent. They can be developed, but your base talent (for lack of a better word) at these subjects comes in to play + Show Spoiler +yadyadya just my opinion, not trying to pick a fight, just truly wondering how you arrived at your conclusion I don't think I am a body or a brain. Sure, intelligence - in whatever terms it is defined - exists. And you can say that it determines [x]. Or you can say that genetics determines [y]. Or that your upbringing determines [z]. But none of these things are me. My experiences are linked to them, sure. But they are not those things theirselves. I am not my body or my brain. I am my experiences. So how is this different from spirituality or any other kind of new age crap? Fact is, we can erase your memory and you will still be you, just without your "experiences". Ok I just have to say, this is a really stupid definition of 'self' you're using. The one travis used made a lot more sense. Also, just because something is 'spiritual' doesn't mean it's false or 'new age crap'. and as for: A strawman argument is when you instead of confronting the real arguments of the opponent build your own altered versions of his arguments which are usually much easier to beat down and then beats those arguments deliberately, thinking that you just owned a discussion.
What I was trying to say in the first post is that a 'definition' of the self that is focused on mental aspects, such as memory and experience, makes more sense than a definition in which you only take the physical body into account. As a matter of fact, I do believe a person could be different after suffering severe memory loss, it just depends on how much of his memories he loses. But I don't think you can limit the self to just this. As I pointed out earlier, any attempt to describe or define the self faces problems.
I wasn't addressing you when I pointed out problems with the body-definition of the self, so it doesn't really count as a strawman (I didn't quote anything), but it does seem I was little too quick to assume that this was the definition you were using (in the above post, where I called it stupid). It does seem that in quoting my post and attempting to discredit my arguments without addressing them ("and using strawmans doesn't?"), you committed a little fallacy yourself. Not that you need to address these arguments, as apparently I was attacking a view you do not hold to be true.
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Didn't Travis make a thread about this saying that is impossible to do anything without benefiting yourself. Either you get satisfaction from it, you gain respect, you get karma, money, etc. When it boils down to it, its for yourself. Even if you are millionaire and you don't give a shit about people but still help out cause you are bored or whatever, it will actually help you because it'll clean up the streets and make your quality of life better.
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EPT
