• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:39
CEST 16:39
KST 23:39
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.162Rollback Netcode in Brood War995.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202624Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup10
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? SCII needs to put more weight on strategy and tact Server Blocker 5.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 2026 ESL Pro Tour for SC2 discontinued
Tourneys
$3,500 WardiTV Not-Summer Championship Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Sagi.gg Launcher Released Bot on ladder Rollback Netcode in Brood War ASL22 General Discussion
Tourneys
[Women's StarCraft] MonstarZ vs Dreams 2026-10-15 ASL 22 Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Semifinal B
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Link Between Gaming and …
TrAiDoS
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10514 users

What i fear most about SC2/Theorycraft. KISS

Blogs > Deleted User 31996
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
Deleted User 31996
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
843 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-17 05:10:32
November 17 2008 05:08 GMT
#1
I was going to post this on some dudes thread on creep-theory in the sc2 thread but i figured it deserves a blog post.

What I fear most about this sc2 'theorycraft' forum section is that they remind me of dota hero character suggestion threads on dota forums.

I do NOT want sc2 to turn into dota, an over complicated game with 5 billion variables.

A game will break down (e-sports-wise) if there are far too many details embedded in it. Look at SC, the game is already so simple yet it is so fucking deep and intricate at the same time without being the intention when the game was released/created.

Likewise with quakeworld (quake 1) or quake3, or cs, these games are SO simple on the surface yet are endorsed by the e-sports world because people realize the deep intricacies that they posses. Movement in quake games evolved to a point of strafe jumping and bunny hopping but these were accidents/bugs found by players then later exploited and used by the top tiers. Quake 4 jumps in the game and no one gives it as much appreciation as the previous titles. Why? Take a guess.

Where now, you have your rubbish nowadays like BF2142?? or COD5,COD6, or whatever they have now. They have 500 different little buttons to press. Sure knowing each and every one does something special and unique but there is just way TOO MUCH SHIT to properly appreciate the game in an e-sports sense.

It's the same story with every single 'new' idea that someone tries add to a game.

A good analogy i know is with girls and makeup. Girls = the game we play, make up = the features.

Japanese ganguro girls keep adding make up thinking that these little features they add, like tan cream, eye whip cream or whatever the fuck you call it makes them pretty.
[image loading]

The picture is here, you be the judge.

But a girl who goes easy with the make up, dabs on very light gloss, no foundation, some blush for cuteness
[image loading]


You tell me which girl you want to play.



Keep It Simple Stupid.
<\rant>


****
puckadapa
Profile Joined November 2008
Marshall Islands5 Posts
November 17 2008 05:14 GMT
#2
Ehm, are you telling me CoD and BF2142 was hard to grasp? If so lol.

But in a sense I kind of agree, but this seems to be mostly over reacting.
nihil2501
Profile Joined October 2008
United States142 Posts
November 17 2008 05:17 GMT
#3
i want to play both of those girls
Mikilatov
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States3897 Posts
November 17 2008 05:19 GMT
#4
So in essense it appears that you don't want them to overcomplicate the game. Which I guess makes sense... But can you give some examples of this overcomplication you've been seeing?

Also. DOTA is an overcomplicated game? ... Since when?
♥ I used to lasso the shit out of your tournaments =( ♥ | Much is my hero. | zizi yO~ | Be Nice, TL.
Fontong
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States6454 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-17 05:35:50
November 17 2008 05:34 GMT
#5
On November 17 2008 14:17 nihil2501 wrote:
i want to play both of those girls

Well we know that some people will play anything, even dota. And that Japanese people can be over the top. It's what makes Japanese culture so interesting...

You are definitely right about the simple=good. (and that too much make-up is ugly, I lol at girls who so much make up on...)
[SECRET FONT] "Dragoon bunker"
NastyMarine
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States1252 Posts
November 17 2008 06:27 GMT
#6
LOL - terrible OP for the SC2 forum. should have been a blog. And that, my friend, is what I call SIMPLE STUPID
Treatin' fools since '87
0xDEADBEEF
Profile Joined September 2007
Germany1235 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-17 06:34:00
November 17 2008 06:31 GMT
#7
Blizzard always, always keeps their games simple. Gameplay-wise simple (but in multiplayer it might become very competitive none the less), visually simple (Blizzard always makes the graphics and units very clear and unique, sacrificing realism or sanity for a better visual feedback which apparently is a good thing to do for multiplayer), UI-wise simple, and so newbie-friendly that your grandma could jump right in.
That's why there are so many retards playing their stuff.
It's very rewarding to make games casual gamer friendly. It's the biggest market after all.

I also think that the market has changed significantly in the past 10 years - these days it's more rewarding for companies to design for casual players because more and more start playing games, while 10 years ago it was mostly hardcore users, technically adept youngsters and all kinds of geeks/nerds playing PC games.
Mastermind
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada7096 Posts
November 17 2008 06:43 GMT
#8
I agree that a small amount of makeup on girls is preferable. Otherwise they start to look like clowns. Its kinda funny when some fatty thinks if she doubles up her makeup it will make her look less gross, when in reality it does the opposite.
TYL
Profile Joined February 2008
Philippines116 Posts
November 17 2008 06:53 GMT
#9
the simple girl with the less makeup~ :D
a girl's smile is her best make up.
Augury
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States758 Posts
November 17 2008 07:05 GMT
#10
Definitely agreed. My overall stance is that games shouldn't govern what should take place.

Golden minerals are going to make certain areas of the maps focal points that is going to be the same in every game on that map. It's going to allow less diversity between strategies and games. Golden minerals can be compared to gas expos and the natural layout of the map; however, there are going to be a lot less of them, which might be a problem. Luckily this can be solved by map makers, but Golden Minerals seem like they're going to direct the flow of gameplay too much. Gameplay should be directed by the players.

Stalker Blink is another issue. Blink is going to force players to use Stalkers in a fairly specific way. There will be some diversity, but it's still an ability that doesn't leave much room for micro. Unit abilities are necessary, but those abilities should be spider mines and psi storm, etc.. Not something that governs how you control a unit.


Those are just two examples and they're not going to be game breaking or anything like that, but hopefully they get my point across. Not sure how clear this statement is, but hopefully someone understands what I'm trying to express .
BluzMan
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Russian Federation4235 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-17 07:37:33
November 17 2008 07:35 GMT
#11
You tell me which girl you want to play.


The thing is there is sooo much make-up and other work invested in making the second photo. Lights, camera, it takes several hours to make a photo like this. You're kinda killing your own argument because the girl below is something that looks way simpler because it's way more complicated. To achieve the most natural, fresh feeling in photos is a science.

Btw, 5 billion variables is at least 5 gb if it's a single boolean array. =)
You want 20 good men, but you need a bad pussy.
Raithed
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
China7078 Posts
November 17 2008 07:56 GMT
#12
you know, those girls reeally deterred the thread a bit haha. what the heck yo.
Hypnosis
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States2061 Posts
November 17 2008 08:00 GMT
#13
the first for sure
Science without religion is lame, Religion without science is blind
ZhenMiChan
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Netherlands1181 Posts
November 17 2008 09:08 GMT
#14
yo liosama 6_^5
Studying Chinese~
_Grazze_
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
834 Posts
November 17 2008 12:25 GMT
#15
On November 17 2008 16:56 Raithed wrote:
you know, those girls reeally deterred the thread a bit haha. what the heck yo.


Haha yeah

But, look at games like Dawn of War, Command and Conquer (the newer ones) and maybe like Lord of the rings RTS and such games, they aren't complicated but so hmm how do I put it, messy?

Starcraft is so simple and clean, yet very deep. It's quite easy to understand unlike WC3, which for me is a bit messy at times but not THAT hard to know what's going on.

When I visited WCG with my friends we watched SC and WC3 at the main stage, and they told me that SC was the most easiest game to follow, they understood quite well what was going on. Of course they didn't understand nice micro movements and good macro but they understood what was going on atleast. They also pointed out that they didn't understand shit about WC3, it was so messy.

Conclusion: Keep the games clean and simple, the graphics can be upgraded, sure!
MrHoon *
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
10183 Posts
November 17 2008 13:21 GMT
#16
COD4 was awesome

others were shit though.
dats racist
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-17 15:39:48
November 17 2008 15:38 GMT
#17
I agree Blizzard shouldnt go too deep, but the thing is Blizzard went really deep with sc1, if you look on Blizzards strategy guides they have all the basics strats already. Like harassing the mineral line or bunker rushing (after they found out bunker rushing was so strong they gave sunkens a little range longer than marines in bunkers)

btw its </rant>

On November 17 2008 22:21 MrHoon wrote:
COD4 was awesome

others were shit though.


LOL newschooler cod 1 was the shit, I remember playing it 24/7 with my clan.. ahh the memories... cod 2 was so newschool and fucked everything up and then cod 4 omg....


Lim Yo Hwan forever!
meegrean
Profile Joined May 2008
Thailand7699 Posts
November 17 2008 16:10 GMT
#18
My brain is simple. That is why I like simple games like Starcraft.
Brood War loyalist
Ki_Do
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Korea (South)981 Posts
November 17 2008 16:16 GMT
#19
You know what i fear beside sc2?
sc3? and sc4? omg, can you imagine the ammount of automatizations they will implant in the next starcraft games?
get ready to die flaming blizzard and get angry ,cause in a matter of 10 years you wont controll anything in your rts anymore
kekekeke~

/joking
/joking about joking, im serious tbh
I've got a point, and i'm ready to kill or die for it.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-17 17:08:11
November 17 2008 17:06 GMT
#20
On November 18 2008 01:16 Ki_Do wrote:
You know what i fear beside sc2?
sc3? and sc4? omg, can you imagine the ammount of automatizations they will implant in the next starcraft games?
get ready to die flaming blizzard and get angry ,cause in a matter of 10 years you wont controll anything in your rts anymore
kekekeke~

/joking
/joking about joking, im serious tbh


By the time they get to Starcraft 4, you'll just be able to plug a wire into your brain and think your way through the game.

One other point to make that for a game with relatively simple mechanics, its far easier to balance. When you only have a few variables to work with, its easy to pick out which ones make which things overpowered.
Moderator
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 8h 21m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
LamboSC2 262
MaxPax 167
ProTech122
BRAT_OK 58
Codebar 20
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 14833
Horang2 935
Mini 496
firebathero 364
Soma 314
Snow 293
Zeus 240
Hyuk 183
ggaemo 161
Leta 135
[ Show more ]
Mong 67
Mind 67
Bishop 55
Hyun 52
Pusan 49
ToSsGirL 44
hero 38
sSak 38
Noble 35
Shinee 32
Creator 31
Bale 30
PianO 23
Terrorterran 23
JYJ 16
ajuk12(nOOB) 14
zelot 14
yabsab 13
Sacsri 12
Yoon 11
Icarus 8
Dota 2
Gorgc8204
Dendi1034
XaKoH 485
syndereN201
420jenkins167
Counter-Strike
x6flipin56
Heroes of the Storm
Lowko465
Other Games
fl0m2509
singsing2200
B2W.Neo812
hiko752
mouzStarbuck228
DeMusliM210
crisheroes203
Khaldor176
Liquid`VortiX171
Hui .163
QueenE50
KnowMe37
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 67
• Adnapsc2 16
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• ChaeLyn 5
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2083
League of Legends
• Nemesis2267
• Jankos1222
Upcoming Events
OSC
8h 21m
Online Event
20h 21m
Korean StarCraft League
1d 12h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 15h
Rush vs Soulkey
CranKy Ducklings
1d 19h
AI Arena Tournament
2 days
BSL Open Qualifier
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
OSC
2 days
IPSL
3 days
[ Show More ]
BSL Open Qualifier
3 days
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-14
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
HCC Season 3
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.