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Travis asked me to read this for his friend; since apparently the topic was closed and the victim banned in order to prevent further trolling, here are my thoughts:
Re: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=82090
First, it's a shame that anyone responded without being able to really imagine what he must have felt like in such a situation. The OP is a clearly written narrative leading you to a specific moment, with a follow up "wonderment" about the moment. If you don't share the moment, you can't answer the question. For those of you who couldn't read it--he is very close friends with someone, and also feels strong love for her, problem is she doesn't feel that way. But their friendship is completely awesome. Now this person, whose friendship alone would be one of the most important and valuable things in your current life (even without the feelings of love, you are sure), says to you something like "if only being friends is really that hard for you, maybe it would be better if we ended it completely--what do you think?" Your head spins--how do you know what to do under the pressure of love and loss of your most valuable friendship on the spot like that? For some people maybe decisions like that are easy, and feelings don't effect that or aren't that strong--but imagine they are. Imagine you're not a douchebag and you actually care--think back to when you watched movies or whatever and actually felt something strongly, nervous, to the point where it makes it hard to think and hard to do anything--maybe in your childhood. This is the situation he's describing; "you're dying inside; you're almost fainting; do you have the strength to rally?"
Gene said this happened to him recently (one of the few people who knows how to post enough so people can see what they are thinking for themselves rather than just agree/disagree with unstated assumptions):
you are not unique
time to grow up man up and get the fuck over it
the girl actually said to me
"Listen, you're making my boyfriend incredibly jealous and he doesnt deserve to be unhappy like that. You're cute, i like you, if i were single we would be a lot different. But its done. Stop. If you can't just be friends, its over entirely."
Cudos to Gene for knowing how to post. If others who said "this is common", "this is part of life", "it happens all the time" (which may be somewhat true, still not a reason for telling people to shut up or pissing all over their thread/not answering their questions/insulting them), perhaps then we would have a more productive thread and not a flamewar. It is these other people's lack of effort that made the thread shitty, not tika's imo.
But IMO this isn't a thread about girl trouble or even love. It's about getting a lot of emotional static and making it hard to keep it together. He isn't looking for a "solution" i.e. another girl, or get this girl. He doesn't want to wash out what this is with another girl, and he knows he's not getting this girl. He likes this friendship the way it is. He wants to understand why he doesn't get this girl; why does love work this way? Apparently having the closest possible friendship with a girl, being soulmates and child-like, doesn't actually translate into a sexual/romantic relationship, despite all the tradition telling us it does. It's disappointing because obviously the man is always ready (see evolution for details). Does the woman even know why she doesn't want it? Maybe, maybe not. It's just circumstance. It could be something subconscious that she can't possibly remember--something that lead to an attitude, a thought, a principle, a habit. We all are shaped by hundreds of thousands of influences like this, and if they stack up just wrong, those alone can mean that you won't want to do it with your best friend (as a girl). It might not be your looks, or attractiveness. Even if it is, then that's still just a slap in the face to all our common sense ideas of romance in the modern age.
When you are intoxicated by love it is easy to believe the stories we are taught--or any other ones for that matter. So the reality is very real for you--the reality of our common sense idea of love. It feels like she must feel it too, but does she really? Can we ever know?
He's not crying about some girl. He's wondering how he's going to keep it together (and this means his life and sanity, not "keeping from crying"). For you nerds, imagine if someone was going to take away your computer and all your friends who didn't suck, all at the same moment you are in love. Try to feel something and try to understand what's going on here for once.
Dozens of people say "this is common"--wtf kind of contribtion is that? #1 you don't give any examples of what YOU think the thread is similar to, and if you did you wouldn't be able to defend it, #2 even if it is too common for your taste then just GTFO. This thread to me doesn't sound like other "girl trouble" threads, if that's what you're grouping it in. Give me one link that you think is so similar to this problem that this thread should be moved/shouted down/fucked with. No one has, and if you did, your link would suck and you'd look stupid--which is exactly how your comments already look to me.
You fail: Folca, Jibba, sushiman, H_, CDRDude (no offense)
  
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United States24634 Posts
People get sick of seeing the same dumb things over and over again (dumb because they expect compassion on a forum that is completely unrelated).... and they act mean....
It's the internet and shit happens lol
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United States47024 Posts
On November 13 2008 03:24 Jibba wrote:HB with the smackdown. Show nested quote +Let me summarize what happened:
1. I close your emo girl thread that just degenerated into flaming.
2. You PM me to have it reopened. Instead of just telling you no way, I explain to you the reasons why its better to have a blog post about it.
3. You insist that there's some deep meaning behind your thread and that you're doing TL a great service for bringing such unique and amazing discussion topics to the general forum.
4. I say just make a blog, and apparently that's not enough for you. You have to MSN me to argue more, insult me saying I'm "not on your level" and "can't fully comprehend your thought process" etc. And now I'm "clueless".
I'm done being patient and understanding, enjoy the nuke icon.
Yes, some of the responses were inappropriate, but his responses and attitude toward them were equally inappropriate. Harassing a mod doesn't exactly help him either.
As was made clear, if he expected to argue, it should have been a blog post. If he didn't expect a response, it should have also been a blog post. Trying to force it into General on some basis of philosophical higher ground doesn't really get you anywhere.
The way I see it, the reasons for moving/closing the thread and banning the OP were fairly clear. The thread was moved because its very clearly blog material and not a General thread. The OP was then banned because he harassed a mod about said move. What is there to argue?
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hahahaha
4. I say just make a blog, and apparently that's not enough for you. You have to MSN me to argue more, insult me saying I'm "not on your level" and "can't fully comprehend your thought process" etc. And now I'm "clueless".
hahahahaha
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On November 13 2008 09:56 Suggestion Box wrote:
Travis asked me to read this for his friend; since apparently the topic was closed and the victim banned in order to prevent further trolling, here are my thoughts:
I don't remember doing that.
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Belgium6768 Posts
not this again god damn
at least this is in blogs lol
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I find it quite entertaining.
On a related note, after reading everything I must say that it's happened to nearly all of us and yes with the same emotions and feelings that you like to look down upon. The only problem is that you can't imagine anybody else feeling the same way you do, the same pain you're experiencing, perhaps you think you're a special case and that the world revolves in someway around you. To me, this is the same thing as many other 'love problem' thread, but you somehow need to make it seem much more than it actually is.
I thought I was special when I loved a girl, who was also one of my best friends and i truly did love her. We talked on msn/phone sometimes 7 hours a day, almost everyday, in the summer it could've been longer. Thought we were perfect together, bam!, she got a boyfriend (one that was like 100x better than me) went through the same emo things you did, kept being friends, suffocating, dying and the like, but you realize through time that you realize how simple the answer is. You move on. I'm sure with time you'll realize the same thing.
Talking to the original op btw.
And I'm into Mini-wheats frosted flavour for some reason. I don't even particularly like them >.>
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Tell whoever it is that wrote that, that he is an idiot.
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United States22883 Posts
tika was being a douche bag. We responded honestly and accurately, and all he could say is "this girl and I are a step above you and your experiences; we're on a higher intellectual level and that's why your advice doesn't apply."
He's in the motherfucking friend zone and if he wants to be happy, he needs to move on. It's that simple. tika is in denial and that thread was 5 pages of people laughing at his rude denial. And since none of us are in a one-way street relationship and stuck with the warped notion that we can just beg/convince our way out, it's really him that's the loser.
We would've just /sighed it off and ignored him if he hadn't been such an asshole about how mature and awesome and super super awesome he and his non-girlfriend are.
EDIT: Requiem for a Dream is the most overrated garbage on earth. Ass to ass is about the only redeeming part of it.
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internet
I personally find this ABSOLUTELY HILARIOUS
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United States22883 Posts
no offense but in the "real world", at least between people who "think" as much as myself and my associates do, this is a very very ....unsophisticated, black and white way of thinking. if you are in a relationship with someone who is very thoughtful and intelligent, answers, paths, aren't so clearcut.
edit: this isn't america where relationships sprout and end on a whim. we put real value into our lives and what we do and what we experience.
I respond: "The Friend Zone is in international waters, sir."
anyone using "sir" to address someone especially after being doubted or questioned indicates an air of arrogance that is attributed usually only to the whimsical and the troll. basically it's a word that screams "i haven't really thought about what you are saying, i'm reacting spontaeniously and extremely confidently." unfortunately in REAL real life circumstance, ie life after the age of 23 when people are actually becoming or understanding what it means to be "mature in thought", extreme confidence is simply a deafening indication that a person is unenlightened.
imagine you're giving "love advice" to a 14 year old. you're 24. you tell them they're silly and how much they have to learn.
i wonder how much a 34 year old has to teach YOU. don't you?
yubee was probably right in that blog. She probably just feels sorry for a person like that.
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United States47024 Posts
On November 13 2008 11:05 Jibba wrote:
He's in the motherfucking friend zone and if he wants to be happy, he needs to move on. It's that simple. tika is in denial and that thread was 5 pages of people laughing at his rude denial. And since none of us are in a one-way street relationship and stuck with the warped notion that we can just beg/convince our way out, it's really him that's the loser.
Well, to be fair, he wasn't really asking for advice. He was really sort of just bemoaning his search for "enlightenment" while he made things awkward/agonizing for both himself and this unfortunate girl.
I personally don't give a damn about his personal problems either way, but the condescending way he approached the community (and then trying to call Jibba and others the arrogant ones) deserved a ban.
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On November 13 2008 11:27 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2008 11:05 Jibba wrote:
He's in the motherfucking friend zone and if he wants to be happy, he needs to move on. It's that simple. tika is in denial and that thread was 5 pages of people laughing at his rude denial. And since none of us are in a one-way street relationship and stuck with the warped notion that we can just beg/convince our way out, it's really him that's the loser. Well, to be fair, he wasn't really asking for advice. He was really sort of just bemoaning his search for "enlightenment" while he made things awkward/agonizing for both himself and this unfortunate girl. I personally don't give a damn about his personal problems either way, but the condescending way he approached the community (and then trying to call Jibba and others the arrogant ones) deserved a ban.
I agree with this. I mean we all go through such things but I guess it really doesn't matter at the end of day when you find that right person.
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I hate to break it to you, but tika was just a troll. He was a previously banned troll, too. I don't know why they let him make so many posts.
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he isn't a troll, he is just out of touch
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On November 13 2008 13:24 travis wrote:
he isn't a troll, he is just out of touch
His way of thinking is certainly unique, I'll give him that much
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even though he will never succeed with the girl, ever, ever ever, and the only reason he won't lament not listening to us is because he's too stupid and he'll go NO REGRETS BRAH 2 SMART 4 DAT... at least he won me over. from now on in friend zone threads i'm just gonna say "keep going dude ur so close!! she def. wants to be with you she just can't yet!!"
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FUCK THAT BITCH
HOLLLLLLLLLYYYY SHIT
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On November 13 2008 11:05 Jibba wrote:
tika was being a douche bag. We responded honestly and accurately, and all he could say is "this girl and I are a step above you and your experiences; we're on a higher intellectual level and that's why your advice doesn't apply."
He's in the motherfucking friend zone and if he wants to be happy, he needs to move on. It's that simple. tika is in denial and that thread was 5 pages of people laughing at his rude denial. And since none of us are in a one-way street relationship and stuck with the warped notion that we can just beg/convince our way out, it's really him that's the loser.
We would've just /sighed it off and ignored him if he hadn't been such an asshole about how mature and awesome and super super awesome he and his non-girlfriend are.
EDIT: Requiem for a Dream is the most overrated garbage on earth. Ass to ass is about the only redeeming part of it. god everything about this post is awesome even the edit is like 100%
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On November 13 2008 09:56 Suggestion Box wrote:Gene said this happened to him recently (one of the few people who knows how to post enough so people can see what they are thinking for themselves rather than just agree/disagree with unstated assumptions): Show nested quote +you are not unique
time to grow up man up and get the fuck over it
the girl actually said to me
"Listen, you're making my boyfriend incredibly jealous and he doesnt deserve to be unhappy like that. You're cute, i like you, if i were single we would be a lot different. But its done. Stop. If you can't just be friends, its over entirely." Cudos to Gene for knowing how to post. If others who said "this is common", "this is part of life", "it happens all the time" (which may be somewhat true, still not a reason for telling people to shut up or pissing all over their thread/not answering their questions/insulting them), perhaps then we would have a more productive thread and not a flamewar. It is these other people's lack of effort that made the thread shitty, not tika's imo. oh my god i made like 5 posts in a row in that thread. do you know who the fuck i am?!?!?!?! saying gene knows how to post because he cited a specific example isn't fair, because not all of us have to, since this has happened to fucking everybody
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(2:25:53 AM) yubee: i don't have to explain the concept of friend zone to you
(2:25:54 AM) yubee: there's a million
(2:26:00 AM) yubee: more embittered
(2:26:02 AM) yubee: dorks
(2:26:05 AM) yubee: who will explain it to you
(2:26:08 AM) yubee: and swear by every single rule
(2:26:15 AM) Gene: there's a million people without enough confidence to accept that as a reason that they cant get what they want
(2:26:16 AM) yubee: i'm just saying, everybody believes it's true for a reason
(2:26:35 AM) Gene: thats not proof its excuse.
(2:26:36 AM) yubee: it's not cause they r all dum & i m so smart!
(2:26:46 AM) Gene: it is
(2:26:53 AM) Gene: they accept that as a reason for why they cant get what they want
sorry gene but hey tika do u see a pattern? i'm no sherlock but i think i see a pattern does anyone else see a pattern
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yubee, you're awesome. <3
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On another note, I find that Tika was here not so much for advice but he wanted to hear what he wanted to hear. That what he was doing was the right thing... all that 'depth of his fathomacy' and stuff like that.
But the one issue I find that he couldn't accept was that everyone, even those who weren't flaming but giving proper answers(like yubee), were asking him to move on. Maybe that didn't click well in him. Maybe something in him got the best out of his own attitude and he couldn't accept such a simple solution to a complex problem.
I guess that's life. Its realising that sometimes you can just break through a problem. Even though it may be painful, its still for the better.
I've been in somewhat of a similar situation and I know what he feels but I guess what he did just wasn't the way. You can't make love out of nothing.
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On November 13 2008 15:54 JMave wrote:
On another note, I find that Tika was here not so much for advice but he wanted to hear what he wanted to hear. That what he was doing was the right thing... all that 'depth of his fathomacy' and stuff like that.
But the one issue I find that he couldn't accept was that everyone, even those who weren't flaming but giving proper answers(like yubee), were asking him to move on. Maybe that didn't click well in him. Maybe something in him got the best out of his own attitude and he couldn't accept such a simple solution to a complex problem.
I guess that's life. Its realising that sometimes you can just break through a problem. Even though it may be painful, its still for the better.
I've been in somewhat of a similar situation and I know what he feels but I guess what he did just wasn't the way. You can't make love out of nothing.
you are my favorite new poster
fucking spiritofthetuna seal of approval
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I'll try to come up with a dish with tuna ok. <3
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i dunno what kind of thanks that is
motherfucker
"you gave me a compliment so im gonna describe how to cook one of your kind"
or like
"aw you're such a nice jew let me introduce you to my neonazi support group"
WHAT THE FUCK
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I meant that it will be courtesy of you my friend.
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friendships are built in this thread. i approve
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also... hi ub, how's the 4pooling going?
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Suggestion Box, you seem to have missed the point pretty severely on this one. I suggest that you read through the comments that were left on the version that appeared in the general forum (the blog was hardly noticed).
When I came across this thread, I felt empathy for the kid (I can tell he's a kid because of the obvious immaturity he displays). I berated the other posters for being mean and offered my advice. Yes his situation is common. It is true. But that does not mean it isn't significant. Much of your OP is trying to explain the story which most people understood very well reading tika's post.
So, where's the problem?
+ Show Spoiler +First off, tika reposted in General after it was moved to blogs, and when this was explained to him he didn't close down the post in General and instead ignored the problem (first sign that he is an attention whore). Indeed, he is "better" than the rules of TL because his situation is so much more significant than anything that we other "nerds" have ever experienced. This was the first sign of his incredible ego.
tika's response to my message essentially stated that he didn't give a fuck about my opinion, but thanked me and my feeble intelligence for providing positive feedback to him. He said about himself and the girl: "you must understand we are... thinkers". Yeah, and I'm a retard? At first I thought he didn't mean it, so I told him to be careful with his wording so as not to come off as pretentious. Then I read the replies he wrote to other people and came to an unfortunate conclusion: he is a self-centered attention-seeking trolling pretentious condescending child. I started to wonder if this was a joke, if he was in fact doing on purpose to be as obnoxious as possible in order to make TLers boil, and then tell them "haha I got you". But reading more and more of his posts, and other threads in which he posted, I was quickly disillusioned.
When I first posted on that thread, I came with as much goodwill as you can have on an internet forum. I was met with scorn and disdain. I am insulted by his behaviour.
So, what do I believe should be done? If it were up to me, he wouldn't be banned. He is an immature brat but would just need to learn some manners to be accepted here. I would temp-ban him for a week on the condition that he apologize to all those TLers whose intelligence he has insulted. I'm sure deep down he's a good kid. But damn, he was WAY too annoying.
So this doesn't come down to the feelings he shared in the OP. That would have been a perfeclty legitimate blog. It comes down to his unacceptable attitude in dealing with people. And this, Suggestion Box, is where I believe that you have misunderstood.
EDIT @JMave & co
You guys are hilarious. Feel free to post herring recipes too! (inlagd sill means pickled baltic herring in Swedish)
REEDIT you haven't missed the point. When I read your OP I thought you did because I didn't see why it was necessary to reexplain the story that I already knew. I guess I missed the point on that one.
(removed some bold too)
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Thing is the story doesn't even make sense :S
It portrays them as these really super awsome close friends.
Ok, having super awsome close friends is a great thing but someone who says "In that case maybe we should just end it." ISN'T a super awsome close friend.
Seriously.
It honestly seems like he is imagining the friends part of their relationship just as much as anything else.
That said I sort of agree with tika about the whole "friendzone" thing. It's stupid and not real.
The world is not divided in "possible friends" and "possible targets". If anything it's divided into "attractive people" and "ugly people".
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I put the dip stick in. Here's what it said:
Out of thirty, eleven clearly didn't read or comprehend my OP; five decided to change the topic to whether tika overall deserved a ban (you think that's what the OP is about?--again, part of reading well is identifying the main idea); fourteen made off-topic or empty remarks not attributable to anything in particular other than a lack of respect for the OP.
Responding to anything here would be helping this go way off track. Try again guys; read the OP. Or keep on trolling, w/e I like it both ways guy.
edit: I removed a comma splice. Please make sure to point out all errors to me, they are super important.
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Against my better judgment, I have decided to respond to someone who sounds particularly indignant because there's a good chance he will go on a rampage or something interesting like that:
On November 13 2008 17:18 inlagdsil wrote:
Suggestion Box, you seem to have missed the point pretty severely on this one. I suggest that you read through the comments that were left on the version that appeared in the general forum (the blog was hardly noticed).
I didn't miss anything. You may say something was the point, and I don't think it was, so you say I missed it. You're wrong though. Maybe this is what tika meant by you not being a "thinker"--you immediately figure that since I disagree with you I missed the point. Again, I didn't miss anything. I wouldn't make this thread any other way. I read everything. I interviewed tika''s mother. Okay? I know your astrological sign. I didn't miss anything kid.
J/k I'm not smart, and I'm not calling you a kid. You see how annoying that can be? Let's not do that to people. Why would you need to do that to win an argument? It looks pretty weak and childish imo. I mean it's just not solid thinking to need to use labels like childish, immature, etc. You can just throw those terms on anyone who is thinking something you don't. It doesn't get us anywhere. BTW did you see the part in my OP where I write over and over how tika's OP that I linked (not the ones I didn't link that everyone keeps wanting to talk about and all that other e-drama) was not precisely the way others had responded to it (and I read all the responses, seriously--they all assume he's asking how to get the girl, whining that he can't get it, etc. he's not. I explained this, and yet I still see people who don't get it--see my OP).
When I came across this thread, I felt empathy for the kid (I can tell he's a kid because of the obvious immaturity he displays). I berated the other posters for being mean and offered my advice. Yes his situation is common. It is true. But that does not mean it isn't significant. Much of your OP is trying to explain the story which most people understood very well reading tika's post.
Oh, you... you just must not be a thinker after all. I think tika was onto you, guy.
So, where's the problem? + Show Spoiler +First off, tika reposted in General after it was moved to blogs, and when this was explained to him he didn't close down the post in General and instead ignored the problem (first sign that he is an attention whore). Indeed, he is "better" than the rules of TL because his situation is so much more significant than anything that we other "nerds" have ever experienced. This was the first sign of his incredible ego.
Okay you caught him. He has a big ego. This doesn't prove/disprove anything about (a) the accuracy of his self image, (b) the accuracy of other things he believes that may have nothing to do with this, (c) try to refute a or b and you got further problems which I'll insert here, but we won't get that far I'm sure, guy.
Also you're talking about other shit he did to try to discredit the man. This is a red herring and ad hominem when we're talking about (in this thread I made here), tika's op, the quality of the responses he got, and other shit I don't remember but hey it's in the OP maybe someone will read it some time besides me. Probably not though, from the looks of the early polling. Guy.
tika's response to my message essentially stated that he didn't give a fuck about my opinion, but thanked me and my feeble intelligence for providing positive feedback to him. He said about himself and the girl: "you must understand we are... thinkers". Yeah, and I'm a retard? At first I thought he didn't mean it, so I told him to be careful with his wording so as not to come off as pretentious. Then I read the replies he wrote to other people and came to an unfortunate conclusion: he is a self-centered attention-seeking trolling pretentious condescending child. I started to wonder if this was a joke, if he was in fact doing on purpose to be as obnoxious as possible in order to make TLers boil, and then tell them "haha I got you". But reading more and more of his posts, and other threads in which he posted, I was quickly disillusioned.
When I first posted on that thread, I came with as much goodwill as you can have on an internet forum. I was met with scorn and disdain. I am insulted by his behaviour.
Well, well, guy. I came into your post with nothing but the loveliest of intentions, to give you hugs and hold your hand and prance together across rainbow rivers and dandylion sunset beaches of sugars and honeydew trees. But you guy, have earned my earnest disrespect. You've essentially showed me that you don't give a fuck about my OP, you must think I'm an idiot to come here and not read what I said or think it's so stupid you can't even give any sign that you understood it but instead use my blog as your personal space to go off about other shit from past vaguely related threads that you've got bottled up inside like a fart on a first date. But the more I kept reading your post to my blog, I quickly became disillusioned. You're some kid who thinks he's smart and has a big ego! Yeah, that's it. Guy.
So, what do I believe should be done? If it were up to me, he wouldn't be banned. He is an immature brat but would just need to learn some manners to be accepted here. I would temp-ban him for a week on the condition that he apologize to all those TLers whose intelligence he has insulted. I'm sure deep down he's a good kid. But damn, he was WAY too annoying.
Oh, calling people a brat. Manners. More empty talk. Anyone can use these words to basically say "I am right. He is not." You might say, you aren't a thinker, guy. It's kind of, you might say, brat-like, immature, bad manner--to come here, and spam a bunch of empty talk saying basically, "boo tika, he dumb, me smart! he call me dumb, but he wrong, I smart!" over and over and over in every way your talented mind can think up. But translate it into the language of actual meaning and you get the same grunts over and over again. Where is your argument? Maybe you will point to those two times where you used fallacies. Those are your logical high points.
So regarding logos, surely you fail. Pathos, I suppose your high pitched squeal evokes some comradere among illiterate pigs hungry and looking for anything to fix their minds on--if you can call what they (and you) have, a mind.
So this doesn't come down to the feelings he shared in the OP. That would have been a perfeclty legitimate blog. It comes down to his unacceptable attitude in dealing with people. And this, Suggestion Box, is where I believe that you have misunderstood.
EDIT @JMave & co
You guys are hilarious. Feel free to post herring recipes too! (inlagd sill means pickled baltic herring in Swedish)
Actually it comes down to whatever I want because it's my blog and I wrote the OP. I don't care whether tika earned a ban by punching every mod in the balls in his other threads. I looked at one thread (pretty clear if you take a look at my hint book I published IN THE OP) and this is a pretty legitimate response to it. You say his attitude was unacceptable blah blah blah don't care, did I make a blog about his attitude? Make a blog about my fucking attitude you bitch. Just kidding I love you dawg.
BTW I'm just kidding you're not a kid that would be ridiculous. Thanks for the effort and care responding to my blog, look forward to hearing from you.
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On November 13 2008 23:22 Suggestion Box wrote:
I put the dip stick in. Here's what it said:
Out of thirty, eleven clearly didn't read or comprehend my OP; five decided to change the topic to whether tika overall deserved a ban (you think that's what the OP is about?--again, part of reading well is identifying the main idea); fourteen made off-topic or empty remarks not attributable to anything in particular other than a lack of respect for the OP.
Responding to anything here would be helping this go way off track. Try again guys; read the OP. Or keep on trolling, w/e I like it both ways guy.
edit: I removed a comma splice. Please make sure to point out all errors to me, they are super important.
(quoting shorter post)
I sounded rather indignant because at the time I was pissed.
The reason I dealt with whether tika should be banned or not and not what you explained in your OP is that you were talking about tika's experience I I thought that I had already basically understood the story from his post. I don't really know what to say in response to your post other than "yeah, that's true" to the parts talking about the situation he's in. I however disagree with your criticisms of posters. We acted in a manner typical of TL, and that attitude should be expected if you post here.
Yeah, I went a bit overboard there yesterday. I wouldn't have posted that today. But I just found the whole thing really annoying.
EDIT: "Oh, calling people a brat. Manners. More empty talk. Anyone can use these words to basically say "I am right. He is not." You might say, you aren't a thinker, guy. It's kind of, you might say, brat-like, immature, bad manner--to come here, and spam a bunch of empty talk saying basically, "boo tika, he dumb, me smart! he call me dumb, but he wrong, I smart!" over and over and over in every way your talented mind can think up. But translate it into the language of actual meaning and you get the same grunts over and over again. Where is your argument? Maybe you will point to those two times where you used fallacies. Those are your logical high points.
So regarding logos, surely you fail. Pathos, I suppose your high pitched squeal evokes some comradere among illiterate pigs hungry and looking for anything to fix their minds on--if you can call what they (and you) have, a mind." you do empty talk too 
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In my opinion, I really found his emotional static(as you call it) something that's common. Its a hard fact. We've all been through some form of it. And to one it may hurt you and devour you and when you go around asking for advice(on TL of all places) about what to do with her, you get backed down with a simple "move on".
And being in his shoes I understand why. Its like "Huh?! Isn't there more to say? I mean its burning me up inside and just move on? How is that possible?"
But there is really nothing more to say because words complicate things. What they told him to do was the best thing. Because if he didn't move on, he would be devoured by his own mind and the circumstance. That's not a good thing. If that's not a tinge of well-being then I'd have to wipe my mind. Sure they didn't do it as politely but well.. it is what it is. Gone.
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Well since everyone wants to talk about tika instead of my OP... I honestly don't think tika wanted a practical answer--a "way out." I think he was genuinely interested in why she doesn't like him romantically.
Some of you posted stuff like, "she must think you're ugly", "she feels sorry for you", "you are a creepy stalker" etc. I don't think we can conclude this from what we know. This is just immature guessing. You take a guy you don't like, and you assume the worst and shoot that down. That takes some skill. Then when he fires back that your assumptions aren't accurate you're like "lol you have a big ego to think you aren't as retarded as we say--no wonder she hates you", etc.
I'm not saying I know who's right, or about tika's other actions with mods and etc. Only, that from what I could see, tika is really friends with the woman he's talking about. Best friends. It's not only in his head. He's not way off base about this and if you think otherwise you had better give good reasons. You don't start giving someone advice by taking half of what they've given in the premise, reasonable things that could be true for anyone, and discarding them as delusions. THAT is insulting, and I'm surprised tika remained patient for as long as he did (in the thread I linked). I don't see all this crazy you guys are talking about. You also can't know why the woman doesn't like tika, such as whether she thinks he's ugly or feels sorry for him and whether that plays into their friendship at all. That's just utterly insulting to assume. It's completely normal for a guy to really have a real friend, and develop feelings for her, etc. You assume the worse, fighting ensues.
No one has been called out for this IMO and still no one thinks they were wrong AFAICT. Sure tika deserved to be banned. But was he the only one? IMO when you respond to a heartfelt post with such garbage as you see, assuming he is ugly, a stalker, a liar, deluded, an idiot, a child--you are also bringing down the site and contributing nothing. You are as bad as any flames that ensued as a direct result IMO.
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Netherlands19130 Posts
gold, 5/5 would masturbate again.
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You are right. There's always two sides to the story. Maybe we've made up assumptions about tika. He's been flamed all too much and maybe deserves a bit of love.
But here's the thing.
Its his story. We don't exactly know what it really is all about. He described his story with, what I'm sure of, his heart. But that's that.
Perhaps this world needs more love. But how much can one give?
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United States47024 Posts
On November 14 2008 00:22 Suggestion Box wrote:
Well since everyone wants to talk about tika instead of my OP... I honestly don't think tika wanted a practical answer--a "way out." I think he was genuinely interested in why she doesn't like him romantically.
In my mind that's an egotistical thing to wonder. What right do you have to that knowledge about someone, no matter how close they are to you?
to be honest this all beggars the question..
and should have been the FIRST and perhaps ONLY question any of you should have put forward...
"what is there about you that she should/can/does find attractive (for a female) about you to make her physically attracted to you?"
i cant believe this simple simple question hasn't arisen. really.
Perhaps someone can explain to me how this post ISN'T just tika asking us to ask him to tell us how awesome he is?
Perhaps you can correct me, but the sense that I got was that tika wasn't looking for a solution, but simply trying to remain friends for the sake of his own "enlightenment" despite the awkwardness and agony that he was causing himself and this girl. Perhaps I'm too shortsighted to see, but that still seems incredibly...silly.
Yes there were people who posted flames and unacceptable material in tika's thread, but I don't think he mounted any significant response to them. Did you read inlagdsil's responses? They were very patient with him. He could have given a less condescending response and made some real discussion, but he still decided to turn inlagd aside as another "arrogant" person who thought too much of their own experiences.
On November 14 2008 00:22 Suggestion Box wrote:
No one has been called out for this IMO and still no one thinks they were wrong AFAICT. Sure tika deserved to be banned. But was he the only one? IMO when you respond to a heartfelt post with such garbage as you see, assuming he is ugly, a stalker, a liar, deluded, an idiot, a child--you are also bringing down the site and contributing nothing. You are as bad as any flames that ensued as a direct result IMO.
Actually, no. That's not strictly ban-worthy. We'd be getting a lot more bans if that were the case.
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On November 14 2008 00:22 Suggestion Box wrote:
Well since everyone wants to talk about tika instead of my OP... I honestly don't think tika wanted a practical answer--a "way out." I think he was genuinely interested in why she doesn't like him romantically.
Some of you posted stuff like, "she must think you're ugly", "she feels sorry for you", "you are a creepy stalker" etc. I don't think we can conclude this from what we know. This is just immature guessing. You take a guy you don't like, and you assume the worst and shoot that down. That takes some skill. Then when he fires back that your assumptions aren't accurate you're like "lol you have a big ego to think you aren't as retarded as we say--no wonder she hates you", etc.
I'm not saying I know who's right, or about tika's other actions with mods and etc. Only, that from what I could see, tika is really friends with the woman he's talking about. Best friends. It's not only in his head. He's not way off base about this and if you think otherwise you had better give good reasons. You don't start giving someone advice by taking half of what they've given in the premise, reasonable things that could be true for anyone, and discarding them as delusions. THAT is insulting, and I'm surprised tika remained patient for as long as he did (in the thread I linked). I don't see all this crazy you guys are talking about. You also can't know why the woman doesn't like tika, such as whether she thinks he's ugly or feels sorry for him and whether that plays into their friendship at all. That's just utterly insulting to assume. It's completely normal for a guy to really have a real friend, and develop feelings for her, etc. You assume the worse, fighting ensues.
No one has been called out for this IMO and still no one thinks they were wrong AFAICT. Sure tika deserved to be banned. But was he the only one? IMO when you respond to a heartfelt post with such garbage as you see, assuming he is ugly, a stalker, a liar, deluded, an idiot, a child--you are also bringing down the site and contributing nothing. You are as bad as any flames that ensued as a direct result IMO.
Allow me to explain something to you.
Tika asked for people to sympathise with them and share their own related experiences.
Everyone remembered this one time they liked a girl, but she wasn't really interested in them, or something like that.
Everyone remembered what they did: "Well, fuck that. I want someone to like me for who I am (if I'm interested in a long term relationship), so changing who I am is out. Some people in this world just aren't going to like who I am. Therefore, move on."
This example is so mundane... It's not worth posting. It's better to just tell the OP "Dude, quit wasting your time; She doesn't like you 'that way' (or frankly, any way, it sounds like)." In fact, the OP's story is mundane as well. Just the tale of some loser who can't take a hint. Who shares all his intimate secrets with a girl who doesn't know how to break it to him.
So then, the first few people respond fairly politely. He then acts like he's better and more mature than everyone on the board, and that they couldn't possibly know what's really going on. Why the fuck did you make the thread in the first place, if you can't accept the most obvious of answers? Because he's a fucking idiot, both in life, and on the internet. It pains me to know that he exists.
PS: When I say "change who I am," I mean there's no point in turning into some leather jacket wearing skull tattooed biker for a girl if you think she'll like that. Everyone changes throughout life though, but of their own accord of who they enjoy being, not necessarily what some girl you're obsessed with enjoys knowing.
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Furthermore... This bullshit about not being allowed to make assumptions based on the way he acts... Telling us that he and his friend are really smart and mature...
I can't think of a single time a friend hasn't introduced their girlfriend/love interest as really smart and mature. I don't know if they think that's the best way to get my approval and impress me but... I'm just like "Dude, she's a ditz... Do what you want, I mean, but you're not fooling me. She's dumb as shit." Well no... What I actually say is more like a sarcastic "Oooookay," but you get the idea. People always exaggerate, especially when the person is really in need of compensating for something. The problem is, that as well as the OP being obsessed with this girl, he's also obsessed with himself, so he play his obvious faults up too.
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Wow debate for the sake of debate, again? I thought we got over this in the last MS blog?
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Don't act like you're above me, NastyMarine :@ lol
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United States22883 Posts
"if simply being friends is really that difficult for you, perhaps we should just end it altogether. what do you think about that?"
and you answer...
"i don't know. i really don't know."
you're dying inside, you're almost fainting. do you have the strength to rally? how long can you keep this up for? is this the feeling of "hope" that keeps me alive? without this strength i would surely be wallowing in manic depression as i have done so many times before.
but how long can it last. i'm afraid. my only strength is in her own sense of enlightenment and the hope that she can forgive and accept me for what i am. and she seems to be able to do this. and for this i love her all the more.
I can't help but giggle every time I read that. HOW CAN I FIND THE STRENGTH TO CARRY ON? I WANNA HEAL! I WANNA FEEL LIKE IM CLOSE TO SOMETHING REAL!
I WANNA FIND SOMETHING IVE WANTED ALL ALONG.
SOMEWHERE I BELONG!!!!!!!!!
EDIT: I don't care if you're upset that I'm psychoanalyzing over the internet; that is some retarded shit. This is like an alcoholic saying "I know you weren't able to quit, but I'm different. I can stop any time!"
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On November 13 2008 13:24 travis wrote:
he isn't a troll, he is just out of touch
I was gonna post this.
Seriously suggestion box sometimes I get the impression you never leave your house.
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Hey Cheif or whatever.
You say, he asked people to sympathize. Wrong. He asked for other people's specific experience that was similar. He didn't get that. He got a lot of people Palining it up "It happened to me"--nothing specific or useful to him at all, and then a bunch of interweb manly advice like "what you should do is jack off and then forget that bitch." He specifically said he didn't want advice.
Also you say that it's okay for people to make assumptions based on how he acts. Again be more specific. The assumptions I'm attacking are the first set before tika finally turned mad against the army of idiots doing exactly what he didn't want: (a) offerring their advice with (b) no useful actual examples described. People assumed that he was a child, that he was some teen asking how to win a woman, etc. That he wasn't as close to her as he said, etc. That's just insulting, and I believe those insults came first, before the other kinds of acts you are saying it's okay to make assumptions based on. IMO the second set of assumptions, ones based on how he responded to the idiocy, are one thing, and the first are another. I am attacking the first ones. When someone makes a thread like his OP, you don't respond with "actually you don't know the woman you're some nerd", that's retarded.
On September 13 2004 22:42 mensrea wrote:
Welcome to our site. Before you begin, here are the site Commandments. They are the rules of the site. They will help you get the most out of your experience here. If you don't wanna play by the rules, then you don't need to be here.
The Commandments are in no particular order. They're all equally important.
2. THOU SHALL OBSERVE FORUM ETIQUETTE
Common sense, people, common sense. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. (And if you happen to be into masochism, then you're at the wrong site, anyway.)
This doesn't mean you can't get verbally medieval on someone's ass every once in a while. We don't run the place like a septic tank. But, flames are generally discouraged and we expect people to have a damn good reason for resorting to harsh language in the forums. This means gratuitous swearing is a no-no. Trolls will be burned, decapitated and banned. If you must flame, be smart about it. Creative flames will even get you respect - if the flame was warranted to begin with. Generally, you'll almost never go wrong by being nice, polite and mature. All just common sense, people.
3. THOU SHALL THINK BEFORE POSTING
Please, think before you chime in with your opinion on a given post or series of posts. There will usually be some history behind a given exchange in our forums, so take the time to observe what might really be going on and put the conversation into context before you decide who's "right" and who's "wrong." Above all, take into account who is posting - context is everything. Chirping in with your grossly uninformed opinions will only make you look dumb and irritate the heck out of the people who do know what's going on.
We can't tell you how many little kids we've ripped to shreds because they reacted first instead of thinking. The absolute worst examples are overzealous pinheads who automatically react with righteous indignation when an Admin bans someone for posting something that, to them, seems innocuous - never thinking that we could be banning that guy for a whole bunch of other things and that this may just have been the final straw. There's a reason why we do the things we do around here.
And please don't try to be Freud or Jung. Don't second-guess the motives for why someone wrote something. Only the author knows for sure the "whys." Respond to what's written. Avoid responding with comments filled with half-baked psychoanalytical presumptions about the poster's imputed agenda or their psych profile. So, for example, when someone writes a detailed post outlining his/her strategy for countering a tank push, feel free to respond to or even criticize the content of the original post - but don't write about how the guy's just trying to impress everyone with his/her knowledge because of an inferiority complex! You don't know that and no one cares. Stop psychoanalyzing - you don't have a license to practice.
Thanks.
8. THOU SHALL CONTRIBUTE TO THE SITE
Contribute to the site. Everyone should pitch in. Some people contribute by being helpful when someone posts a question. Some people contribute by writing interesting posts that stimulate discussion or by uploading relevant and useful facts and information. Some people contribute by posting news from the gaming world. Others contribute by participating in a meaningful way every single day. Still others contribute by simply making everyone laugh. Contribution can take many forms and there's no single prescribed way to go about it. But, like good porn, we know it when we see it. Good contributors will always get favorable treatment. That's just the way things work.
IMO tika's OP was a decent contribution, and I think he got almost nothing in response. Even the people who honestly were trying to help him didn't even read or understand what he was really asking, they just skimmed it and fired away like this was rpf asking for advice on how to get in his sister's pants. Or QuietIdiot asking for help on how to feel better because Sally turned him down. It was neither, guys. Come on.
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Are you illiterate? I think you'd find yourself more at home at GosuGamers.net
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United States47024 Posts
On November 14 2008 06:27 Suggestion Box wrote:
You say, he asked people to sympathize. Wrong. He asked for other people's specific experience that was similar. He didn't get that. He got a lot of people Palining it up "It happened to me"--nothing specific or useful to him at all, and then a bunch of interweb manly advice like "what you should do is jack off and then forget that bitch." He specifically said he didn't want advice.
Then what's the point? Sharing experiences? Blog thread kkthx. IMO a thread where you post your own troubles just for other people to listen to them is incredibly arrogant. Posting it in General is even more so, implying that your personal troubles are somehow universally valuable.
On November 14 2008 06:27 Suggestion Box wrote:
Also you say that it's okay for people to make assumptions based on how he acts. Again be more specific. The assumptions I'm attacking are the first set before tika finally turned mad against the army of idiots doing exactly what he didn't want: (a) offerring their advice with (b) no useful actual examples described. People assumed that he was a child, that he was some teen asking how to win a woman, etc. That he wasn't as close to her as he said, etc. That's just insulting, and I believe those insults came first, before the other kinds of acts you are saying it's okay to make assumptions based on. IMO the second set of assumptions, ones based on how he responded to the idiocy, are one thing, and the first are another. I am attacking the first ones. When someone makes a thread like his OP, you don't respond with "actually you don't know the woman you're some nerd", that's retarded.
As I said, some of the posts he responded to did none of these, and he still responded to them with arrogance and condescension. Inlagsil's is a good example:
Guys let's not be so mean to tika:
-he is pretty new to TL and doesn't understand which posts should be where
-he is young and inexperienced, doesn't know that what he describes is very common
-he isn't used to how people respond here (like blowing up to "sir", which is often used in a joking way on TL)
This should be put back in blogs right away in my opinion.
@tika: most people go through this at some time or another. It is very significant at the time, but not uncommon. You must stay friends with this person. What will happen over time is that your romanic feelings will weaken and then all of a sudden you will discover someone else, and then they will disappear completely. Feelings for close friends can provide a sense of security to your emotional life but as soon as another good opportunity (ie girl) presents itself (herself), these feelings will often just vanish. All you need is patience and resolve.
Misinterpreting the issue a little bit, but nonetheless a good, relevant post to the OP. Tika's response:
thanks for the encouragement altho u must realise it does not appear as "encouragement" to me but simply as a positive attitude that i do not necessarily agree with. there are ALWAYS alternatives and certainly there are alternatives to this obvious and seemingly careless approach to life. u must understand that myself and this girl are...thinkers who aim to resolve their issues in the most rational way possible. this means a LOT of consideration is involved, hence me opening this topic to the various points of view available on this website
If you don't read arrogance and condescension in this post, well, I don't know what to say. Thats not even mentioning the hypocrisy of saying he's opening the thread to multiple points of view whilst tossing aside inlagdsil's contributions.
On November 14 2008 06:27 Suggestion Box wrote:
IMO tika's OP was a decent contribution, and I think he got almost nothing in response. Even the people who honestly were trying to help him didn't even read or understand what he was really asking, they just skimmed it and fired away like this was rpf asking for advice on how to get in his sister's pants. Or QuietIdiot asking for help on how to feel better because Sally turned him down. It was neither, guys. Come on.
Because it was in the wrong place. A thread in the wrong place is naturally going to provoke a less-than-positive response. He'd probably have gotten better responses if it stayed in Blogs like it should have. It was tika's own doing to reopen the damn thread in General. Why? Because he had the nerve to think it held some higher philosophical value than other peoples' experiences.
Arrogance + Thread in the wrong place = Flames
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Thank you for presenting things in a reasonable way TheYango.
In order for this thread not to just continue being a back and forth, we have to establish something for certain. What exactly do you want to achieve here, Suggestion Box?
(don't say "read OP, I'd like the goal to be restated clearly because otherwise I doubt you will get any responses that satisfy you)
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clearasil asked me what my goals are. Obviously my goal was to attract all those people who can't read OPs and just troll and flame and make horrible posts from tika's OP.
On November 14 2008 06:51 TheYango wrote:
Then what's the point? Sharing experiences? Blog thread kkthx. IMO a thread where you post your own troubles just for other people to listen to them is incredibly arrogant. Posting it in General is even more so, implying that your personal troubles are somehow universally valuable.
edit: and his post wasn't in the wrong place. if it was about a video card it wouldn't be moved to blogs. asking for other people's experiences on a matter, is very typical in general. you think just because it's' about girls, it is a blog. that's just ignorance man. it's just ignorance.
seriously I could go open 20 threads right now, change the noun to girl, and you're saying that makes it a blog instead of general. i call bullshit. bullshit on all of you!
interwebs.
On November 14 2008 06:27 Suggestion Box wrote:
IMO tika's OP was a decent contribution, and I think he got almost nothing in response. Even the people who honestly were trying to help him didn't even read or understand what he was really asking, they just skimmed it and fired away like this was rpf asking for advice on how to get in his sister's pants. Or QuietIdiot asking for help on how to feel better because Sally turned him down. It was neither, guys. Come on.
Because it was in the wrong place. A thread in the wrong place is naturally going to provoke a less-than-positive response. He'd probably have gotten better responses if it stayed in Blogs like it should have. It was tika's own doing to reopen the damn thread in General. Why? Because he had the nerve to think it held some higher philosophical value than other peoples' experiences.
Arrogance + Thread in the wrong place = Flames[/QUOTE]
As I said, some of the posts he responded to did none of these, and he still responded to them with arrogance and condescension. Inlagsil's is a good example: Show nested quote +Guys let's not be so mean to tika:
-he is pretty new to TL and doesn't understand which posts should be where
-he is young and inexperienced, doesn't know that what he describes is very common
-he isn't used to how people respond here (like blowing up to "sir", which is often used in a joking way on TL)
This should be put back in blogs right away in my opinion.
@tika: most people go through this at some time or another. It is very significant at the time, but not uncommon. You must stay friends with this person. What will happen over time is that your romanic feelings will weaken and then all of a sudden you will discover someone else, and then they will disappear completely. Feelings for close friends can provide a sense of security to your emotional life but as soon as another good opportunity (ie girl) presents itself (herself), these feelings will often just vanish. All you need is patience and resolve. Misinterpreting the issue a little bit, but nonetheless a good, relevant post to the OP. Tika's response: Show nested quote +thanks for the encouragement altho u must realise it does not appear as "encouragement" to me but simply as a positive attitude that i do not necessarily agree with. there are ALWAYS alternatives and certainly there are alternatives to this obvious and seemingly careless approach to life. u must understand that myself and this girl are...thinkers who aim to resolve their issues in the most rational way possible. this means a LOT of consideration is involved, hence me opening this topic to the various points of view available on this website If you don't read arrogance and condescension in this post, well, I don't know what to say. Thats not even mentioning the hypocrisy of saying he's opening the thread to multiple points of view whilst tossing aside inlagdsil's contributions.
Sorry but I don't read arrogance and condescension in his post. I think he's being rather understanding and honest; he's responding to the advice very kindly and in a friendly way--that's how I read it. It's an example of him being so patient IMO. He was being honest. How else should he have played it? Pretended it was good advice? Ignored it? I think he handled it in the gentlest way possible while still being productive towards his goals. He was letting someone down easy, who clearly was more naive than him, talking down to HIM, and missing the point. He did this time and time again before flaming anyone.
And all this talk about whether it should have been moved to blogs, or whether he had any point whatsoever in resisting the moving, remaking the topic, whether he went about it a bad way, w/e is not the point of this thread at all it's just another detour you guys want to make because the real issues at hand don't play the way you want it to. It's like if we're talking about Bush's domestic policy and you guys can't think of anything but the Iraq war.
On November 14 2008 06:36 Cheif wrote:
Are you illiterate? I think you'd find yourself more at home at GosuGamers.net
WTF kind of shit post was that. 1 line and what are you talking about? What are you a monkey with a typewritter?
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Well SB, it really sounds like you are just wanting attention now. Are you tika anyway?
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Yes, it's obvious I'm tika. Your powers of judgment are so powerful that you saw right through my little disguises. It will reflect on you throughout all of history how you rightfully suspected that we were the same person, based on our posts.
I'm also that LegenD guy remember, and maybe some other banned people too. How many banned users can I be? Let's see. I'm MSLLegenD, I'm Reaper, I'm stimy, I'm tika, I'm chibi, I'm other people too.
you guys are so ridiculous. whenever you disagree with them it's
-spam / jokes
-ad hominem
-red herring
You guys who insult people constantly with your condescending "kid" and "let me tell you something" "when you're older" remarks are the first ones to whine that someone is arrogant.
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On November 14 2008 08:04 JMave wrote:
Well SB, it really sounds like you are just wanting attention now. Are you tika anyway?
It's a blog what do you expect. Honestly, I made the topic to have a super serious internet debate with smart people. No one showed up though, so I'm heckling the crowd. Quality blog here folks! Wall of texts followed up by, other people, doing whatever they feel like! It's a circus folks.
Honestly, my goals here are to be super enlightened and smart. No one else here is on my level?
Oh yeah and now that the bar is lowered for posting here, let me just remark that some guy here said that tika's experience was not universally applicable and therefore a blog and not a general thread. Yet you guys say, his experience is so common. Seems like a hypocracy don't ya think. Also if you applied this standard to General 90% of them should be blogs. Also, nah wait, I'm out of shit to say here.
Of course you guys supply an endless supply of bad stuff to point out, but I'm kinda tired.
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Cry more, your tears make me feel powerful.
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United States47024 Posts
On November 14 2008 07:56 Suggestion Box wrote:
edit: and his post wasn't in the wrong place. if it was about a video card it wouldn't be moved to blogs. asking for other people's experiences on a matter, is very typical in general. you think just because it's' about girls, it is a blog. that's just ignorance man. it's just ignorance.
seriously I could go open 20 threads right now, change the noun to girl, and you're saying that makes it a blog instead of general. i call bullshit. bullshit on all of you!
interwebs.
Umm...no.
You assume I say it deserved to be in blogs because its about a girl. That's not the case. It deserved to be in blogs because, as you said, he wasn't expecting advice. If you don't want advice, and its not a piece of news/discussion that would be interesting/entertaining to the community (which it clearly wasn't, given the reaction by the community), then its a blog. Look at the top few posts in the General Forum:
Overclock Failed? - Tech advice
Private places to take GF - Advice (and related to girls at that)
Savior's GF - News that would be interesting/entertaining (and related to girls)
TL Mafia - Entertainment
On November 14 2008 07:56 Suggestion Box wrote:
Sorry but I don't read arrogance and condescension in his post. I think he's being rather understanding and honest; he's responding to the advice very kindly and in a friendly way--that's how I read it. It's an example of him being so patient IMO. He was being honest. How else should he have played it? Pretended it was good advice? Ignored it? I think he handled it in the gentlest way possible while still being productive towards his goals. He was letting someone down easy, who clearly was more naive than him, talking down to HIM, and missing the point. He did this time and time again before flaming anyone.
Just as you fail to see the arrogance in tika's post, I don't see the arrogance in inlagdsil's post. Touche. If it was clear to him that inlagdsil didn't quite get the point of the thread (e.g. sharing stories), then it should also have been clear that inlagdsil would have been understanding if he made that fact clear, and attempted to proceed with the discussion from there, instead of discounting inlagdsil's opinion altogether.
On November 14 2008 07:56 Suggestion Box wrote:
And all this talk about whether it should have been moved to blogs, or whether he had any point whatsoever in resisting the moving, remaking the topic, whether he went about it a bad way, w/e is not the point of this thread at all it's just another detour you guys want to make because the real issues at hand don't play the way you want it to. It's like if we're talking about Bush's domestic policy and you guys can't think of anything but the Iraq war.
You seem to have missed my point. Blog-type material is less likely to receive flames if its in Blogs. You can't really expect NOT to receive flames when you put Blog material in General.
On November 14 2008 08:12 Suggestion Box wrote:
you guys are so ridiculous. whenever you disagree with them it's
-spam / jokes
-ad hominem
-red herring
You guys who insult people constantly with your condescending "kid" and "let me tell you something" "when you're older" remarks are the first ones to whine that someone is arrogant.
Please don't make generalizations. I'm trying to carry this out as intelligently as possible. If its not up to your standards, then I apologize.
On November 14 2008 08:14 Suggestion Box wrote:
Oh yeah and now that the bar is lowered for posting here, let me just remark that some guy here said that tika's experience was not universally applicable and therefore a blog and not a general thread. Yet you guys say, his experience is so common. Seems like a hypocracy don't ya think. Also if you applied this standard to General 90% of them should be blogs. Also, nah wait, I'm out of shit to say here.
Of course you guys supply an endless supply of bad stuff to point out, but I'm kinda tired.
There's a difference between an experience being generally useful and it being common. In fact, if its a common experience, people are less likely to find it generally useful because its common knowledge ALREADY. There's no hypocrisy.
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So let me get this straight. General is for advice. But DISCUSSION is for blogs?
Backwards?
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United States47024 Posts
On November 14 2008 08:28 Suggestion Box wrote:
So let me get this straight. General is for advice. But DISCUSSION is for blogs?
Backwards?
Uh, no. If you're putting discussion in General, it better be something the "general" community is going to be interested in discussing. Note the part about how it should be "interesting/entertaining to the community?" Girl problems don't usually fit there, but there are exceptions.
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United States22883 Posts
On November 14 2008 08:12 Suggestion Box wrote:
You guys who insult people constantly with your condescending "kid" and "let me tell you something" "when you're older" remarks are the first ones to whine that someone is arrogant.
I never used any of those, yet tika kept telling me about what romance would be over when I'm a grownup like him. Face it, your friend is kind of a jerk.
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Suggestion Box you have reverted to insulting the intelligence of everyone who answered your thread. If we aren't good enough for you, then just stop posting on TL.
I look up on this page and I see lots of people spending a lot of time to formulate good arguments and you attack them.
One last thing: you say that my post was arrogant, but basically every other person who has commented was of the opinion that in fact tika's response was arrogant. I personally know what my intentions were in writing, and it was to share my analysis of my experience of a situation similar to his. True, I didn't think of telling the story, and yes, I would have gotten into it had he asked.
So, who is right here: you who insult me, or everyone else who says I was trying to be helpful? Even tika thanked me for my positive attitude. To me the answer is clear. I know I won't get anywhere arguing with you. I don't even know what we would be hoping to achieve. I have the utmost respect for you in trying to defend your friend (I'm guessing he's your friend). Now let's turn the page and talk about something else.
Goodnight.
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On November 14 2008 00:22 Suggestion Box wrote:
Sure tika deserved to be banned. But was he the only one?
For some reason the more I read this thread it seems like the point of its creation was to attempt to call out a ban on those who got upset with tika. Maybe he didn't deserve a perma-ban, maybe he did, I'm not a moderator and that's not my decision to make. I do think that his posts were becoming a detriment to the site and needed to be dealt with in some manner or another.
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On November 14 2008 13:28 CFDragon wrote:
For some reason the more I read this thread it seems like the point of its creation was to attempt to call out a ban on those who got upset with tika. Maybe he didn't deserve a perma-ban, maybe he did, I'm not a moderator and that's not my decision to make. I do think that his posts were becoming a detriment to the site and needed to be dealt with in some manner or another.
No one got banned for their posts. Tika got banned cuz he harassed Hot_Bid repeatedly through other channels.
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And he had been previously banned.
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So Yango you are saying girls specifically are too popular or not popular enough for General--they are blogs--even though there are many blogs, I mean posts, on girls, in general.
You also said it's not about the girls. It's the way his post was. Well, correct me if this is way off base, but tika's OP in question here provided a story on a subject, and asked others for theirs. That seems like not only a form typical in General but also one typical of every single thread with a poll. He was basically taking a poll, but no one participated and everyone got pissed at him for not taking his advice that he had zero interest in right from the outset (clearly).
Imagine you make a topic about cars. You talk about a specific car recently, all the details. You want to hear others' stories about cars, not any advice. You say this specifically. They all respond with "you should x y z" and when he isn't interested in that advice they start getting insulted and saying he's a kid and shit like that, so then he insults them and they are like "WOW YOU HAVE A BIG EGO YOU LOSER"? And you're saying it has to be a blog?
His thread wasn't any different than, I've been watching C-SPAN lately (long paragraph sharing), what have you been watching? Please don't tell me what to watch just tell me your experiences.
That's not a blog.
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If you enter an online forum such as TL you accept the established rules of such community.
He was told that such thread was blog material and should not be in the general section, but he wasnt mature enough to accept it, so he kept going.
He refused to accept the TL rules because of his arrogance and got banned, end of story.
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On November 14 2008 19:35 Suggestion Box wrote:
Imagine you make a topic about cars. You talk about a specific car recently, all the details. You want to hear others' stories about cars, not any advice. You say this specifically. They all respond with "you should x y z" and when he isn't interested in that advice they start getting insulted and saying he's a kid and shit like that, so then he insults them and they are like "WOW YOU HAVE A BIG EGO YOU LOSER"? And you're saying it has to be a blog?
If that's the response you get, yes. The general community is clearly not interested in discussing it, so it shouldn't take up space in the general forum.
On November 14 2008 19:35 Suggestion Box wrote:
His thread wasn't any different than, I've been watching C-SPAN lately (long paragraph sharing), what have you been watching? Please don't tell me what to watch just tell me your experiences.
That's not a blog.
Depends. If people want to discuss it, then fine, put it in general. If the majority of people don't want to hear about it, stick it in blogs. I understand that's a rather hand-wavy way of deciding what's blog and what's general, but if you don't like it, there's always GG.net.
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You guys are talking out of your ass. Those aren't TL's rules they're shit you made up.
and BTW you have no idea whether the General community was interested in discussing it, because a mod moved it. it seems like lots of people wanted to post--so much so that you guys want to keep talking about things there in this blog even though that's clearly not what the OP intended. there's no way you can say we had any evidence of disinterest to warrant moving it to the blog. imo tika's post in general is analagous to many typical general threads, and you haven't told me any criteria to rule it out other than some bs that makes no sense.
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On November 15 2008 08:27 Suggestion Box wrote:
You guys are talking out of your ass. Those aren't TL's rules they're shit you made up.
I didn't move the thread. The mods did. They're the ones that decide the rules, and they're the ones that decide which threads are worthy of General or of Blogs. I'm merely observing trends. One such trend is that threads that cause this much flaming either get moved or put in blogs, depending on what the content is. In case you didn't notice, the 10 Commandments that you quoted aren't followed word-for-word 100% of the time (why do you think Inc is still here? ). What the mods say goes.
On November 15 2008 08:27 Suggestion Box wrote:
and BTW you have no idea whether the General community was interested in discussing it, because a mod moved it.
In case you didn't notice, tika remade the thread in General, so yes, we can infer that the General community didn't want to discuss it given the amount of negative responses it received.
On November 15 2008 08:27 Suggestion Box wrote:
it seems like lots of people wanted to post--so much so that you guys want to keep talking about things there in this blog even though that's clearly not what the OP intended. there's no way you can say we had any evidence of disinterest to warrant moving it to the blog. imo tika's post in general is analagous to many typical general threads, and you haven't told me any criteria to rule it out other than some bs that makes no sense.
Just because we want to post ABOUT the thread doesn't mean we're in any way interested in the actual discussion. Like I said, I could care less about his, or anyone else's personal problems.
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So now responses are proof that people don't want to discuss it?
If it weren't for mod interference tika would have a General therad on page 50 by now. I'm not saying mods were wrong (at all!) only that you guys saying it was moved to blogs for some cut and dry reason (which keeps changing) are talking out of your asses. If his thread wasn't about girls (and other similar "personal" "emo" "bloggy" topics) it wouldn't have been moved. I can't see any other thread with a similar form, but a different subject, being moved to blogs. Yes some girl threads stay, but I think other threads JUST LIKE tika's, stay also, if they aren't about girls.
There are three main parts to an OP. First, the subject. Sometimes people only offer a subject, and then they get flamed (often this is a youtube video or a link). The second part is the OP's response to it. Sometimes a blog only has these two parts, but sometimes a real thread does too. The third part is when the OP asks for responses or otherwise provides some clear direction for responses to go in. Often this part is assumed, but if this part is spelled out then in my mind you have a complete thread. And if it's not about girls, there's no way it will be moved to blogs.
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I had written an explanation here for why it should be a blog, but I've decided to delete it. It doesn't matter why. Even you agree that the mods were right. The gods have spoken. Let's get over it.
We are fussing way too much about this. I guess I am guilty too, since I keep on checking if there are new posts. Perhaps our time would be better spent reading the strategy forum or posting pictures of our cats on 4chan...
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Probably. I think that one guy above was right, I only think more people were guilty than tika in that thread. Not all of the people shitting on tika, necessarily, but some of the ones who just sucked bad... need to be bitch slapped, but TL doesn't do this.
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Well life isn't fair, and the internet only exaggerates.
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Thanks Nytefish bu I wasn't asking for life to be fair, only sharing an observation.
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I don't want to sound callous like most other responses, but it's the internet. If you're looking for genuine sympathy and understanding, you'll find that people are always nicer and more human in real life. On an internet forum you'll find it very hard to get someone to care about your problems, especially if they're not in a similar position.
Tika posting on an intense Starcraft forum ... not a good idea. Life isn't fair, but the blog section belongs to better things than just complaining and expecting to be understood. We all face difficult things in life, it's just a matter of learning when to quit and go in a new direction.
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EPT
