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Dearest Teamliquid,
Our new debate topic came out: "Resolved: In a Democratic society felons ought to retain the right to vote"
What do you think about it?
My preliminary thoughts are:
What is a felon?
What is a democratic society?
Why felons, and NOT misdemeanors?
I have a few arguments on both sides but I think I need more, or rather, could use more. So, since I know this site is full of intelligent people, what do you think?
AFF:
Marketplace of ideas (Theory by Mills that in order for society to advance everyone needs to have a say)
There's little moral difference between some misdemeanors and some felonies
Neg:
They breached the social contract
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If you're convicted of a felony does that mean you've lost your right to vote for life or just for the duration of your sentence? Because in Britain you can't vote while in jail but once you're released you can.
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people in jail are members of society and thus should be allowed to vote.
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United States7395 Posts
On October 16 2008 05:11 jello_biafra wrote:
If you're convicted of a felony does that mean you've lost your right to vote for life or just for the duration of your sentence? Because in Britain you can't vote while in jail but once you're released you can.
AFAIK you permanently lose your right to vote, even if you are released from prison. However, I don't understand what society tries to achieve by revoking such rights. Taking away their opportunity to get high level jobs (by high level I mean anything that's not manual labor) is fine but .. I see no reason to take away their right to vote. It's basically saying if you commit a crime (which can be a mistake, I know a friend who visited a prison and found out many of the people there made a "mistake", like a spur of the moment thing) you are literally a zombie if they haven't decided to kill you.
Although people who do commit felons deserved to be punished for the severity of their crime, they shouldn't be denied their right to vote.
edit: I'm not knowledgeable in this field at all, BTW.
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On October 16 2008 05:11 jello_biafra wrote:
If you're convicted of a felony does that mean you've lost your right to vote for life or just for the duration of your sentence? Because in Britain you can't vote while in jail but once you're released you can.
Life
@ Mastermind
They violatd the social contract knowingly, and while they may not have been thinking about the consequences at the time they certainly could have been made aware of them.
Thus have no right to vote as they inflicted harm on to society
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I'm a felon and I vote o_O
It's only for the duration of your sentencing
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On October 16 2008 05:23 DamageControL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2008 05:11 jello_biafra wrote:
If you're convicted of a felony does that mean you've lost your right to vote for life or just for the duration of your sentence? Because in Britain you can't vote while in jail but once you're released you can. Life @ Mastermind They violatd the social contract knowingly, and while they may not have been thinking about the consequences at the time they certainly could have been made aware of them. Thus have no right to vote as they inflicted harm on to society
I agree with this a lot. I think it should just be for the duration of the sentence, but when you do a crime and turn your back on the law of the land, you're also turning away from the democratic process as a whole.
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On October 16 2008 05:38 Killy wrote:
I'm a felon and I vote o_O
It's only for the duration of your sentencing
state to state. Some states bar misdemeanors too actually
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In recent years, the states have loosened restrictions on felons' voting rights by quite a bit. Only a few states still permanently disenfranchise felons.
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we need felons to create chaos in society.
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Felons vote power(in % global) is by any means insignificant.
The only important thing is the moral dilemma that society faces.
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On October 16 2008 07:04 LastWish wrote:
Felons vote power(in % global) is by any means insignificant.
Even by conservative estimates, it would have completely changed the outcome of the 2000 presidential election if former felons in Florida were able to vote. :|
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On October 16 2008 07:04 LastWish wrote:
Felons vote power(in % global) is by any means insignificant.
The only important thing is the moral dilemma that society faces.
about 5,000,000 in the US, a good chunk of the population
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On October 16 2008 05:50 Mindcrime wrote:
In recent years, the states have loosened restrictions on felons' voting rights by quite a bit. Only a few states still permanently disenfranchise felons.
Really? I read it was more than a 'few' but perhaps you are right
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On October 16 2008 05:23 DamageControL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2008 05:11 jello_biafra wrote:
If you're convicted of a felony does that mean you've lost your right to vote for life or just for the duration of your sentence? Because in Britain you can't vote while in jail but once you're released you can. Life @ Mastermind They violatd the social contract knowingly, and while they may not have been thinking about the consequences at the time they certainly could have been made aware of them. Thus have no right to vote as they inflicted harm on to society
I have to strongly disagree with you there. What is legal or illegal is a political issue. If someone commits a crime they do not believe should be a crime, by throwing them in jail and not allowing them to vote you are restricting their political freedom, and their ability to change the law through democratic measures.
I am proud to say I live in a country that does not act in a barbaric fashion by restricting people's rights when ever possible(yes, thats right, in Canada everyone can vote). Taking away someone's responsibilities(i see voting as being a responsibility as much as a right) you cant train them to be more responsible. That just doesnt work.
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On October 16 2008 09:06 Mastermind wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2008 05:23 DamageControL wrote:On October 16 2008 05:11 jello_biafra wrote:
If you're convicted of a felony does that mean you've lost your right to vote for life or just for the duration of your sentence? Because in Britain you can't vote while in jail but once you're released you can. Life @ Mastermind They violatd the social contract knowingly, and while they may not have been thinking about the consequences at the time they certainly could have been made aware of them. Thus have no right to vote as they inflicted harm on to society I have to strongly disagree with you there. What is legal or illegal is a political issue. If someone commits a crime they do not believe should be a crime, by throwing them in jail and not allowing them to vote you are restricting their political freedom, and their ability to change the law through democratic measures. I am proud to say I live in a country that does not act in a barbaric fashion by restricting people's rights when ever possible(yes, thats right, in Canada everyone can vote). Taking away someone's responsibilities(i see voting as being a responsibility as much as a right) you cant train them to be more responsible. That just doesnt work. your saying civil disobedience is justified then
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On October 16 2008 07:59 DamageControL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2008 05:50 Mindcrime wrote:
In recent years, the states have loosened restrictions on felons' voting rights by quite a bit. Only a few states still permanently disenfranchise felons. Really? I read it was more than a 'few' but perhaps you are right
It is more than a few. According to this only 2 states permanently disenfranchise all felons, but another 8 permanently disenfranchise some felons.
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EPT
