• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:41
CEST 08:41
KST 15:41
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL19Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task30[ASL19] Ro4 Recap : The Peak15
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 19-25): Hindsight is 20/20?0DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Official Replay Pack8[BSL20] RO20 Group Stage2EWC 2025 Regional Qualifiers (May 28-June 1)17Weekly Cups (May 12-18): Clem sweeps WardiTV May3
StarCraft 2
General
Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN Can anyone explain to me why u cant veto a matchup The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL Karma, Domino Effect, and how it relates to SC2. Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator
Tourneys
[GSL 2025] Code S:Season 2 - RO12 - Group B EWC 2025 Regional Qualifiers (May 28-June 1) DreamHack Dallas 2025 [GSL 2025] Code S:Season 2 - RO12 - Group A RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
Connect with Key Decision-Makers Through Ready Mai Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance Mutation # 473 Cold is the Void Mutation # 472 Dead Heat
Brood War
General
BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans? Battle.net is not working BW General Discussion Practice Partners (Official)
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals [BSL20] RO20 Group D - Sunday 20:00 CET [BSL20] RO20 Group B - Saturday 20:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Monster Hunter Wilds Beyond All Reason Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Plays: Diplomacy TL Mafia: Generative Agents Showdown Survivor II: The Amazon
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread All you football fans (soccer)! European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread NHL Playoffs 2024 Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL.net Ten Commandments
Blogs
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Yes Sir! How Commanding Impr…
TrAiDoS
Poker
Nebuchad
Info SLEgma_12
SLEgma_12
SECOND COMMING
XenOsky
WombaT’s Old BW Terran Theme …
WombaT
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 24481 users

Felons

Blogs > DamageControL
Post a Reply
DamageControL
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States4222 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-15 20:09:00
October 15 2008 20:07 GMT
#1
Dearest Teamliquid,
Our new debate topic came out: "Resolved: In a Democratic society felons ought to retain the right to vote"

What do you think about it?

My preliminary thoughts are:
What is a felon?
What is a democratic society?
Why felons, and NOT misdemeanors?

I have a few arguments on both sides but I think I need more, or rather, could use more. So, since I know this site is full of intelligent people, what do you think?
AFF:
Marketplace of ideas (Theory by Mills that in order for society to advance everyone needs to have a say)
There's little moral difference between some misdemeanors and some felonies

Neg:
They breached the social contract

Liquid | SKT
jello_biafra
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United Kingdom6634 Posts
October 15 2008 20:11 GMT
#2
If you're convicted of a felony does that mean you've lost your right to vote for life or just for the duration of your sentence? Because in Britain you can't vote while in jail but once you're released you can.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions | aka Probert[PaiN] @ iccup / godlikeparagon @ twitch | my BW stream: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/jello_biafra
Mastermind
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada7096 Posts
October 15 2008 20:12 GMT
#3
people in jail are members of society and thus should be allowed to vote.
Equinox_kr
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States7395 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-15 20:21:14
October 15 2008 20:17 GMT
#4
On October 16 2008 05:11 jello_biafra wrote:
If you're convicted of a felony does that mean you've lost your right to vote for life or just for the duration of your sentence? Because in Britain you can't vote while in jail but once you're released you can.


AFAIK you permanently lose your right to vote, even if you are released from prison. However, I don't understand what society tries to achieve by revoking such rights. Taking away their opportunity to get high level jobs (by high level I mean anything that's not manual labor) is fine but .. I see no reason to take away their right to vote. It's basically saying if you commit a crime (which can be a mistake, I know a friend who visited a prison and found out many of the people there made a "mistake", like a spur of the moment thing) you are literally a zombie if they haven't decided to kill you.

Although people who do commit felons deserved to be punished for the severity of their crime, they shouldn't be denied their right to vote.

edit: I'm not knowledgeable in this field at all, BTW.
^-^
DamageControL
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States4222 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-15 20:25:15
October 15 2008 20:23 GMT
#5
On October 16 2008 05:11 jello_biafra wrote:
If you're convicted of a felony does that mean you've lost your right to vote for life or just for the duration of your sentence? Because in Britain you can't vote while in jail but once you're released you can.

Life
@ Mastermind
They violatd the social contract knowingly, and while they may not have been thinking about the consequences at the time they certainly could have been made aware of them.
Thus have no right to vote as they inflicted harm on to society
Liquid | SKT
Killy
Profile Joined September 2008
United States39 Posts
October 15 2008 20:38 GMT
#6
I'm a felon and I vote o_O

It's only for the duration of your sentencing
Money is your army, every dollar is a soldier
CFDragon
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States304 Posts
October 15 2008 20:41 GMT
#7
On October 16 2008 05:23 DamageControL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 16 2008 05:11 jello_biafra wrote:
If you're convicted of a felony does that mean you've lost your right to vote for life or just for the duration of your sentence? Because in Britain you can't vote while in jail but once you're released you can.

Life
@ Mastermind
They violatd the social contract knowingly, and while they may not have been thinking about the consequences at the time they certainly could have been made aware of them.
Thus have no right to vote as they inflicted harm on to society

I agree with this a lot. I think it should just be for the duration of the sentence, but when you do a crime and turn your back on the law of the land, you're also turning away from the democratic process as a whole.
DamageControL
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States4222 Posts
October 15 2008 20:49 GMT
#8
On October 16 2008 05:38 Killy wrote:
I'm a felon and I vote o_O

It's only for the duration of your sentencing

state to state. Some states bar misdemeanors too actually
Liquid | SKT
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
October 15 2008 20:50 GMT
#9
In recent years, the states have loosened restrictions on felons' voting rights by quite a bit. Only a few states still permanently disenfranchise felons.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
Raithed
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
China7078 Posts
October 15 2008 21:41 GMT
#10
we need felons to create chaos in society.
LastWish
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
2013 Posts
October 15 2008 22:04 GMT
#11
Felons vote power(in % global) is by any means insignificant.
The only important thing is the moral dilemma that society faces.
- It's all just treason - They bring me down with their lies - Don't know the reason - My life is fire and ice -
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
October 15 2008 22:20 GMT
#12
On October 16 2008 07:04 LastWish wrote:
Felons vote power(in % global) is by any means insignificant.


Even by conservative estimates, it would have completely changed the outcome of the 2000 presidential election if former felons in Florida were able to vote. :|
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
DamageControL
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States4222 Posts
October 15 2008 22:49 GMT
#13
On October 16 2008 07:04 LastWish wrote:
Felons vote power(in % global) is by any means insignificant.
The only important thing is the moral dilemma that society faces.

about 5,000,000 in the US, a good chunk of the population
Liquid | SKT
DamageControL
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States4222 Posts
October 15 2008 22:59 GMT
#14
On October 16 2008 05:50 Mindcrime wrote:
In recent years, the states have loosened restrictions on felons' voting rights by quite a bit. Only a few states still permanently disenfranchise felons.

Really? I read it was more than a 'few' but perhaps you are right
Liquid | SKT
Mastermind
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada7096 Posts
October 16 2008 00:06 GMT
#15
On October 16 2008 05:23 DamageControL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 16 2008 05:11 jello_biafra wrote:
If you're convicted of a felony does that mean you've lost your right to vote for life or just for the duration of your sentence? Because in Britain you can't vote while in jail but once you're released you can.

Life
@ Mastermind
They violatd the social contract knowingly, and while they may not have been thinking about the consequences at the time they certainly could have been made aware of them.
Thus have no right to vote as they inflicted harm on to society

I have to strongly disagree with you there. What is legal or illegal is a political issue. If someone commits a crime they do not believe should be a crime, by throwing them in jail and not allowing them to vote you are restricting their political freedom, and their ability to change the law through democratic measures.

I am proud to say I live in a country that does not act in a barbaric fashion by restricting people's rights when ever possible(yes, thats right, in Canada everyone can vote). Taking away someone's responsibilities(i see voting as being a responsibility as much as a right) you cant train them to be more responsible. That just doesnt work.
DamageControL
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States4222 Posts
October 16 2008 00:19 GMT
#16
On October 16 2008 09:06 Mastermind wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 16 2008 05:23 DamageControL wrote:
On October 16 2008 05:11 jello_biafra wrote:
If you're convicted of a felony does that mean you've lost your right to vote for life or just for the duration of your sentence? Because in Britain you can't vote while in jail but once you're released you can.

Life
@ Mastermind
They violatd the social contract knowingly, and while they may not have been thinking about the consequences at the time they certainly could have been made aware of them.
Thus have no right to vote as they inflicted harm on to society

I have to strongly disagree with you there. What is legal or illegal is a political issue. If someone commits a crime they do not believe should be a crime, by throwing them in jail and not allowing them to vote you are restricting their political freedom, and their ability to change the law through democratic measures.

I am proud to say I live in a country that does not act in a barbaric fashion by restricting people's rights when ever possible(yes, thats right, in Canada everyone can vote). Taking away someone's responsibilities(i see voting as being a responsibility as much as a right) you cant train them to be more responsible. That just doesnt work.
your saying civil disobedience is justified then
Liquid | SKT
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
October 16 2008 01:07 GMT
#17
On October 16 2008 07:59 DamageControL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 16 2008 05:50 Mindcrime wrote:
In recent years, the states have loosened restrictions on felons' voting rights by quite a bit. Only a few states still permanently disenfranchise felons.

Really? I read it was more than a 'few' but perhaps you are right


It is more than a few. According to this only 2 states permanently disenfranchise all felons, but another 8 permanently disenfranchise some felons.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 20m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
ToSsGirL 104
Mind 76
Aegong 42
Shinee 25
Noble 14
SilentControl 12
ajuk12(nOOB) 8
JulyZerg 4
League of Legends
JimRising 717
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1242
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King128
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor150
Other Games
summit1g6662
C9.Mang0484
Skadoodle208
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick730
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• practicex 86
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1042
• Stunt417
• HappyZerGling116
Upcoming Events
Road to EWC
2h 20m
Road to EWC
3h 20m
Road to EWC
15h 20m
Road to EWC
1d 2h
Road to EWC
1d 9h
BSL Season 20
1d 11h
Sziky vs Razz
Sziky vs StRyKeR
Sziky vs DragOn
Sziky vs Tech
Razz vs StRyKeR
Razz vs DragOn
Razz vs Tech
DragOn vs Tech
Online Event
1d 21h
Clem vs ShoWTimE
herO vs MaxPax
Road to EWC
2 days
BSL Season 20
2 days
Bonyth vs Doodle
Bonyth vs izu
Bonyth vs MadiNho
Bonyth vs TerrOr
MadiNho vs TerrOr
Doodle vs izu
Doodle vs MadiNho
Doodle vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-05-28
DreamHack Dallas 2025
Calamity Stars S2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL Season 17: Qualifier 1
2025 GSL S2
Heroes 10 EU
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLAN 2025
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.