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Active: 1258 users

Felons

Blogs > DamageControL
Post a Reply
DamageControL
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States4222 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-15 20:09:00
October 15 2008 20:07 GMT
#1
Dearest Teamliquid,
Our new debate topic came out: "Resolved: In a Democratic society felons ought to retain the right to vote"

What do you think about it?

My preliminary thoughts are:
What is a felon?
What is a democratic society?
Why felons, and NOT misdemeanors?

I have a few arguments on both sides but I think I need more, or rather, could use more. So, since I know this site is full of intelligent people, what do you think?
AFF:
Marketplace of ideas (Theory by Mills that in order for society to advance everyone needs to have a say)
There's little moral difference between some misdemeanors and some felonies

Neg:
They breached the social contract

Liquid | SKT
jello_biafra
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United Kingdom6638 Posts
October 15 2008 20:11 GMT
#2
If you're convicted of a felony does that mean you've lost your right to vote for life or just for the duration of your sentence? Because in Britain you can't vote while in jail but once you're released you can.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions | aka Probert[PaiN] @ iccup / godlikeparagon @ twitch | my BW stream: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/jello_biafra
Mastermind
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada7096 Posts
October 15 2008 20:12 GMT
#3
people in jail are members of society and thus should be allowed to vote.
Equinox_kr
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States7395 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-15 20:21:14
October 15 2008 20:17 GMT
#4
On October 16 2008 05:11 jello_biafra wrote:
If you're convicted of a felony does that mean you've lost your right to vote for life or just for the duration of your sentence? Because in Britain you can't vote while in jail but once you're released you can.


AFAIK you permanently lose your right to vote, even if you are released from prison. However, I don't understand what society tries to achieve by revoking such rights. Taking away their opportunity to get high level jobs (by high level I mean anything that's not manual labor) is fine but .. I see no reason to take away their right to vote. It's basically saying if you commit a crime (which can be a mistake, I know a friend who visited a prison and found out many of the people there made a "mistake", like a spur of the moment thing) you are literally a zombie if they haven't decided to kill you.

Although people who do commit felons deserved to be punished for the severity of their crime, they shouldn't be denied their right to vote.

edit: I'm not knowledgeable in this field at all, BTW.
^-^
DamageControL
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States4222 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-15 20:25:15
October 15 2008 20:23 GMT
#5
On October 16 2008 05:11 jello_biafra wrote:
If you're convicted of a felony does that mean you've lost your right to vote for life or just for the duration of your sentence? Because in Britain you can't vote while in jail but once you're released you can.

Life
@ Mastermind
They violatd the social contract knowingly, and while they may not have been thinking about the consequences at the time they certainly could have been made aware of them.
Thus have no right to vote as they inflicted harm on to society
Liquid | SKT
Killy
Profile Joined September 2008
United States39 Posts
October 15 2008 20:38 GMT
#6
I'm a felon and I vote o_O

It's only for the duration of your sentencing
Money is your army, every dollar is a soldier
CFDragon
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States304 Posts
October 15 2008 20:41 GMT
#7
On October 16 2008 05:23 DamageControL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 16 2008 05:11 jello_biafra wrote:
If you're convicted of a felony does that mean you've lost your right to vote for life or just for the duration of your sentence? Because in Britain you can't vote while in jail but once you're released you can.

Life
@ Mastermind
They violatd the social contract knowingly, and while they may not have been thinking about the consequences at the time they certainly could have been made aware of them.
Thus have no right to vote as they inflicted harm on to society

I agree with this a lot. I think it should just be for the duration of the sentence, but when you do a crime and turn your back on the law of the land, you're also turning away from the democratic process as a whole.
DamageControL
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States4222 Posts
October 15 2008 20:49 GMT
#8
On October 16 2008 05:38 Killy wrote:
I'm a felon and I vote o_O

It's only for the duration of your sentencing

state to state. Some states bar misdemeanors too actually
Liquid | SKT
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
October 15 2008 20:50 GMT
#9
In recent years, the states have loosened restrictions on felons' voting rights by quite a bit. Only a few states still permanently disenfranchise felons.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
Raithed
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
China7078 Posts
October 15 2008 21:41 GMT
#10
we need felons to create chaos in society.
LastWish
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
2015 Posts
October 15 2008 22:04 GMT
#11
Felons vote power(in % global) is by any means insignificant.
The only important thing is the moral dilemma that society faces.
- It's all just treason - They bring me down with their lies - Don't know the reason - My life is fire and ice -
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
October 15 2008 22:20 GMT
#12
On October 16 2008 07:04 LastWish wrote:
Felons vote power(in % global) is by any means insignificant.


Even by conservative estimates, it would have completely changed the outcome of the 2000 presidential election if former felons in Florida were able to vote. :|
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
DamageControL
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States4222 Posts
October 15 2008 22:49 GMT
#13
On October 16 2008 07:04 LastWish wrote:
Felons vote power(in % global) is by any means insignificant.
The only important thing is the moral dilemma that society faces.

about 5,000,000 in the US, a good chunk of the population
Liquid | SKT
DamageControL
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States4222 Posts
October 15 2008 22:59 GMT
#14
On October 16 2008 05:50 Mindcrime wrote:
In recent years, the states have loosened restrictions on felons' voting rights by quite a bit. Only a few states still permanently disenfranchise felons.

Really? I read it was more than a 'few' but perhaps you are right
Liquid | SKT
Mastermind
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada7096 Posts
October 16 2008 00:06 GMT
#15
On October 16 2008 05:23 DamageControL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 16 2008 05:11 jello_biafra wrote:
If you're convicted of a felony does that mean you've lost your right to vote for life or just for the duration of your sentence? Because in Britain you can't vote while in jail but once you're released you can.

Life
@ Mastermind
They violatd the social contract knowingly, and while they may not have been thinking about the consequences at the time they certainly could have been made aware of them.
Thus have no right to vote as they inflicted harm on to society

I have to strongly disagree with you there. What is legal or illegal is a political issue. If someone commits a crime they do not believe should be a crime, by throwing them in jail and not allowing them to vote you are restricting their political freedom, and their ability to change the law through democratic measures.

I am proud to say I live in a country that does not act in a barbaric fashion by restricting people's rights when ever possible(yes, thats right, in Canada everyone can vote). Taking away someone's responsibilities(i see voting as being a responsibility as much as a right) you cant train them to be more responsible. That just doesnt work.
DamageControL
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States4222 Posts
October 16 2008 00:19 GMT
#16
On October 16 2008 09:06 Mastermind wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 16 2008 05:23 DamageControL wrote:
On October 16 2008 05:11 jello_biafra wrote:
If you're convicted of a felony does that mean you've lost your right to vote for life or just for the duration of your sentence? Because in Britain you can't vote while in jail but once you're released you can.

Life
@ Mastermind
They violatd the social contract knowingly, and while they may not have been thinking about the consequences at the time they certainly could have been made aware of them.
Thus have no right to vote as they inflicted harm on to society

I have to strongly disagree with you there. What is legal or illegal is a political issue. If someone commits a crime they do not believe should be a crime, by throwing them in jail and not allowing them to vote you are restricting their political freedom, and their ability to change the law through democratic measures.

I am proud to say I live in a country that does not act in a barbaric fashion by restricting people's rights when ever possible(yes, thats right, in Canada everyone can vote). Taking away someone's responsibilities(i see voting as being a responsibility as much as a right) you cant train them to be more responsible. That just doesnt work.
your saying civil disobedience is justified then
Liquid | SKT
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
October 16 2008 01:07 GMT
#17
On October 16 2008 07:59 DamageControL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 16 2008 05:50 Mindcrime wrote:
In recent years, the states have loosened restrictions on felons' voting rights by quite a bit. Only a few states still permanently disenfranchise felons.

Really? I read it was more than a 'few' but perhaps you are right


It is more than a few. According to this only 2 states permanently disenfranchise all felons, but another 8 permanently disenfranchise some felons.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
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