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Chef
10810 Posts
On October 14 2008 05:26 kpcrew wrote: truth. faoi is like ALWAYS motw also i dislike blue storm pathfinding Rally to third mineral only. OMG, SO HARD. It's worth it for new gameplay dynamics that keep StarCraft fresh to add extra things you have to do. If you consider the extra clicks annoying and demanding, you might as well be arguing for MBS to be employed in the next patch. | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
On October 14 2008 05:33 PsycHOTemplar wrote: Rally to third mineral only. OMG, SO HARD. It's worth it for new gameplay dynamics that keep StarCraft fresh to add extra things you have to do. If you consider the extra clicks annoying and demanding, you might as well be arguing for MBS to be employed in the next patch. Tbh blue storm is played a lot and very popular but i don't really see the new uber super cool gameplay dynamics. It is a very defensive macro map and i find pvz and especially pvt really boring on it. It the heaven of turtle 3 bases terrans. | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
On October 14 2008 05:19 BlackStar wrote: And I didn't realize you have map-caused pathing difficulties on Andromeda. My pathfiding remark was mostly for blue storm. Oh and tell me what is so special about Andromeda please. the 3 bases macro play ? the open middle ? or the two islands ? | ||
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BlackStar
Netherlands3029 Posts
I don't see why I need to repeat myself. Anyway, Koreans know the most about SC. And they think Andromeda was the best new map in quite a while. | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
 I must be dumb, my apologies. | ||
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Frits
11782 Posts
On October 14 2008 06:07 BlackStar wrote: Well either you didn't read my post or you'll have to make a case for why I didn't make a good case for Andromeda. I don't see why I need to repeat myself. Anyway, Koreans know the most about SC. And they think Andromeda was the best new map in quite a while. If the koreans say it's true.... then it must be true! I love sophisms keep em coming. | ||
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BlackStar
Netherlands3029 Posts
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Frits
11782 Posts
On October 14 2008 06:12 Boblion wrote: Sry i'm not Korean I must be dumb, my apologies. Sadly not everyone is born with vast strategical knowledge and lightning quick fingers, us newbies will just have to accept ourselves as inferior beings. | ||
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BlackStar
Netherlands3029 Posts
Ill gladly try to explain what I said again. But it's kind of pointless to do if it wasn't read the first time. And you didn't even read it in the first place. Not to mention those points are brought up every time when Andromeda is talked about. Hell, even at Blizzcon if I remember correcty. I also think I remember someone on TL attack say the same thing, probably a player. Anyway, this wasn't about Andromeda in the first place. Not saying it's the best map ever. But at least be informed and reasonable. | ||
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Frits
11782 Posts
On October 14 2008 06:17 BlackStar wrote: lol ignoring my arguments and going for a straw man... I don't know why you seem to think that you made a case for andromeda because I can't find it in this thread. Actually the only argument you've used is that strawman. Unless "3 early bases is cool" counts as an argument. | ||
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BlackStar
Netherlands3029 Posts
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Frits
11782 Posts
On October 14 2008 06:29 BlackStar wrote: Strawman? Do you even know what that means? For a strawman you need to attack something. I never attacked anything, let alone I made a weaker version of something. Are we posting in the same dimension? Why is it so hard to make sense on the internet. You're the one who made the strawman, I thought you were admitting that when you quoted me but you're actually accusing me? My mind is blown. | ||
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BlackStar
Netherlands3029 Posts
I never said anything you can even falsely accuse as being a straw man. I think you confuse a straw man with a fallacy in general. Not to mention you attacked the straw man you made out of my position with a fallacy. You don't need to be Korean to know a lot about SC. | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
imo: - cliffs ( because it will make drops more valuable ) - semi open middle with multiple routes ( more strategy, less A-move ) - destructible buildings or mineral walls ( to prevent scouting or expansions for example ) - a third base not so safe ( prevent auto-macro games ) - ramps ( interesting for army position when you attack / defend ) - islands ? ( can be interesting in PvT when you go reaver drop but you also want to expo safely ) - small mineral patches in 2v2 and an higher min / gaz ratio because it will allow you to tech faster and the game gets more interesting than the standart mass goonling vs mass zealing. I don't like Andromeda because it has only one good map feature ( imo ), the two islands. The cliffs arent really used because terran will alway kill the two neutral buildings and put a turret at this spot | ||
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BlackStar
Netherlands3029 Posts
Why is cheese so strong on macro maps? | ||
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Frits
11782 Posts
On October 14 2008 06:35 BlackStar wrote: Yeah, you acted like the comment I made about Koreans prefering Andromeda was my argument. I never said anything you can even falsely accuse as being a straw man. I think you confuse a straw man with a fallacy in general. Not to mention you attacked the straw man you made out of my position with a fallacy. You don't need to be Korean to know a lot about SC. A very weak argument that can be refuted easily can be called a strawman, which you set up yourself, and I refuted it. If you want to be anal about it I guess you could call it an authoritative fallacy/sophism or whatever it's called in english which you made. This is beside the point and I don't even know why you're argueing about this, you made a faulty argument and now you're rambling about fallacies and strawmen, classic internet debating. Why are you desperately trying to avoid the questions Im asking? To get on point, and to the question that you never answered for some reason: Where is this magic case you seem to think you have presented here? You said that the pathing isn't that bad... that's it? The only REAL argument you've used so far is the one about koreans having superior knowledge which was faulty. And for the love of god when you reply to this make it coherent. I don't know what you're rambling about half of the time. Just tell me where you made this case on andromeda being a good map. | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
Nowadays a 2 fact or a 3 gates goon is a cheese because on this kind of macro maps they are "all in" Bos. Imo it is just gamble. You just bet that your opponent will be too greedy and you hope he won't scout your timed rush. i think it is bad. Many Builds now are just desperate all in cheesy strats because of the min only in main + the island. | ||
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BlackStar
Netherlands3029 Posts
On October 14 2008 06:49 Frits wrote: And for the love of god when you reply to this make it coherent. I don't know what you're rambling about half of the time. Just tell me where you made this case on andromeda being a good map. You didn't read my posts, you don't know what the words you use mean, you admit you don't even know what you yourself are actually trying to argue for. And even after reading wikipedia you are still wrong on the definition of 'straw man'. What more is there to say? Just leave me and Boblion at peace. Go complain and ask for a 'ban for being wrong'. | ||
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Frits
11782 Posts
you never adressed anything I asked and still aren't I adressed everything you talked about perfectly | ||
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BlackStar
Netherlands3029 Posts
On October 14 2008 06:50 Boblion wrote: What you consider cheese is often standart play on oldschool map. Nowadays a 2 fact or a 3 gates goon is a cheese... You can't proxy vs old standard play ie 2 fact or 3 gate goon. And yeah, 3 gate goon is probably an all in on macro maps. It's all relative. Ok, you just think strategy is a gamble. It often is. And many times it's a mind game. But the same is true in war. Plus, you can still scout. But in the end the so called 'boring macro maps' have a legion of different viable builds where in older maps you are often forced to play a set number of standard BOs. Yeah, they can be interesting in other ways. But that's the point. We have Andromeda now. We also have Raid Assault 2. You prefer tactical maps. I don't even claim I prefer strategic maps. I often found Andromeda very frustration because it's so difficult to pick the right way to play. But don't be narrow minded or uneducated about it. | ||
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