• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 13:56
CET 19:56
KST 03:56
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Rongyi Cup S3 - RO16 Preview3herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational10SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)21Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7
StarCraft 2
General
PhD study /w SC2 - help with a survey! Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued StarCraft 2 not at the Esports World Cup 2026 [Short Story] The Last GSL Stellar Fest "01" Jersey Charity Auction
Tourneys
$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) OSC Season 13 World Championship $70 Prize Pool Ladder Legends Academy Weekly Open! SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Fantasy's Q&A video BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10
Strategy
Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Awesome Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread NASA and the Private Sector
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Esports Advertising Shap…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1780 users

HerO_V vs By.Flash [14 June, 2008] 2set @ PL

Blogs > Goosey
Post a Reply
Goosey
Profile Blog Joined September 2005
United States695 Posts
June 17 2008 06:33 GMT
#1
Jesus. Fucking.. Christ...

Is it really too early to declare a game of the year yet? I mean really?

Watch This Game Now:
+ Show Spoiler +


Ok, are we all caught up? Spoiler time!
+ Show Spoiler +

Ok I have to start off by saying.. While I found this to be the most amazing game I have seen yet this year I don't think this is actually game-of-the-year material. The reason is simply that it is a one sided rape and the amazing comeback that Flash pulls off looks to me more like HerO_V was just cracking under the pressure.

Hell I was about to get on a plane to Korea and bitch slap HerO_V myself if he let Flash take that game away from him. You can see it in his eyes when Flash's un-fucking-stoppable push just keeps rolling closer and closer... He is starting to panic.

Thankfully he takes a moment to compose himself. This is seen in the game when he stops throwing small groups of dragoons and zealots and Flash's fully upgraded tank ball and collects all those Arbiters he left just sort of hanging out.

And he thinks. Flash has a 3/3 ball of doom. I can't break it. But he has pretty much every unit sitting on the opposite end of the map so.. Recall! Once he took down the top-right expos his goal of starving Flash out took reality. Also by getting his units spread across the map he was able to pull something off I don't think I have ever seen in a PvT before: a full 360 degree surround. Finally the terran blob is broken. Fucking terran.

So HerO_V's opening.. To me this seemed like it was a tailor-made Flash-stomper of an opening. Flash has shown he is a versatile player: he has amazing macro, but is also quite capable of the cheese rush. He has shown that against opponents like Shuttle he is quite capable of doing an early push if he sees an opportunity. So what gives?

This build HerO_V did fucking defines greedy. 14nex into a god damned sprint for Arbiters. How big was his army when that first Arbiter came out? Something like 8 goons and 2 zealots? Madness. How could Flash not punish such a build?

Well I guess HerO_V has simply been paying very close attention to Flash's recent proleague auto-wins. Flash has it tough man.. He is the guy on top that everyone is aiming to knock down and he is currently pushing his way towards the finals of THREE star leagues. So this doesn't really leave a lot of room for proleague preperation, yet he is used. He is always used.

So what I have noticed in Flash's recent proleague games is that he has taken the mindset that he doesn't give a fuck what his opponent is doing (mind you I am talking about TvP only right now). As long as he can secure his 3 bases and do his little turtle-till-3/3-and-200 dance he feels like there is nothing any toss can fucking do. Why prepare when you have an auto-win strategy?

Well HerO_V takes advantage of this mindset in two ways. First he does the greediest build imaginable. Only way it could have been even more greedy is if he cut goons to get his 3rd up quicker, but hell that 3rd was still up at what I would call a pretty fast timing.

AND he had arbiters.. which he uses to great effect. It must take a lot of guts to go recall several times into the base of a Terran who has not moved out. Who has not had his tank count reduced through skirmishes. Flash is just sitting back macroing it up: obviously he is going to be able to respond to recalls quickly..

But the recalls happen. And somehow they work really really well. They even create enough chaos to allow Flash's 4th to be run over. Total domination!

We arrive at the point of the match that has HerO_V at 6 bases and Flash at 2. The SCV count has been reduced. HerO_V is looking like he will be maxing any second while Flash is trying to crawl back from what.. about 100-130 supply?

So HerO_V enters the 'starve Flash' stage of his strategy. He has been greedy enough to allow him to do some unforeseen damage to Flash's macro.. And this has given him total map dominance.. and now he just needs to keep expanding, keep making gateways, and wait for Flash to starve out.

And now we are back to the point I was discussing at the beginning of this spoiler.

Sorry if this was a bit rambly and hard to read.. Wrote it while very sleepy and very excited..

Also, I haven't watched it yet but I hear that this series contains 1 other amazing epic game.. See if you can guess which one!


#1 Shuttle Fan.
blabber
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States4448 Posts
June 17 2008 06:54 GMT
#2
good stuff
blabberrrrr
NarutO
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Germany18839 Posts
June 17 2008 06:59 GMT
#3
Good read. I think HerO_V_ was suprised how well it worked out and thought he already won after he was on like 6 bases and Flash was on 2. Still Flash's level was so high and HerO_V_ underestimated the still existant threat and nearly got punished for it.

I think Flashs strategy is not an auto-win. The strategy is not new, and not developed by Flash. The Flash opening without an ebay and Academy + Goliath as anti-drop with really fast upgrades were actually redesigned by Flash, but he didn't invent it.

So you will see. If you are a top player you will have a hard time, because there are so many matches of you and so many ways to analyse your style. What do you think how many games Hero_V_ saw of Flash and what do you think how many games Flash watched from HerO? I think Flash didn't even care his opponent is HerO_V_.

Whenever a player is successful lots of games will be shown and lots of games can be analysed. This will end in anti-strategies for exactly that player on exactly that special map (any map given).
Note: Players like OOv / NaDa were very hard to beat, because its not hard to analyse them. It was just their timing / macro to that time, that were overwhelming and on another level.
CommentatorPolt | MMA | Jjakji | BoxeR | NaDa | MVP | MKP ... truly inspiring.
alffla
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Hong Kong20321 Posts
June 17 2008 07:20 GMT
#4
shit i didnt know this game was so epic lol
thanks for the blog

O_O
Graphicssavior[gm] : What is a “yawn” rape ;; Masumune - It was the year of the pig for those fucking defilers. Chill - A clinic you say? okum: SC without Korean yelling is like porn without sex. konamix: HAPPY BIRTHDAY MOMMY!
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
June 17 2008 07:23 GMT
#5
haha it feels like flash is the new savior or w/e, lot of love and lot of hate
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
DeadVessel
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
United States6269 Posts
June 17 2008 07:54 GMT
#6
hero <3

yeah really great game ^^
B1nary
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada1267 Posts
June 17 2008 07:54 GMT
#7
It really looked like HerO_V_ was gonna lose when that giant blob of tanks rolled out. I looked somewhat like oov playing back there. battle... battle... tanks die... battle some more... more stuff dies... OMFG WHERE ALL THOSE TANKS COME FROM???!!!
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
June 17 2008 07:58 GMT
#8
On June 17 2008 16:54 B1nary wrote:
It really looked like HerO_V_ was gonna lose when that giant blob of tanks rolled out. I looked somewhat like oov playing back there. battle... battle... tanks die... battle some more... more stuff dies... OMFG WHERE ALL THOSE TANKS COME FROM???!!!

ahhaa yeah! does feel like that...
it's kind of the tank formation though, flash always had a blob of tanks hanging bit back, so when the goon 'flank' killed what is appeared to the be tank army, there's a shitton more in the back still.
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
Luddite
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States2315 Posts
June 17 2008 08:05 GMT
#9
reminds me a lot of that epic foru vs. nada game.
Can't believe I'm still here playing this same game
G5
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States2921 Posts
June 17 2008 08:20 GMT
#10
great game but ya, way to early to declare it game of the year. or even game of the year so far.
Holylight
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Korea (South)460 Posts
June 17 2008 09:01 GMT
#11
did you miss lomo vs kwanro? that game is really sick
Guss
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Sweden712 Posts
June 17 2008 09:26 GMT
#12
On June 17 2008 18:01 Holylight wrote:
did you miss lomo vs kwanro? that game is really sick


that game is really 1 sided rape
Bisu[Shield] FIGHTING!
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
June 17 2008 09:34 GMT
#13
I think Flashs strategy is not an auto-win. The strategy is not new, and not developed by Flash. The Flash opening without an ebay and Academy + Goliath as anti-drop with really fast upgrades were actually redesigned by Flash, but he didn't invent it.

he didnt even redesign it, you can find reps of nada doing the exact same opening from a year+ ago. flash just makes it seem different because his macro/timing/game sense is on a whole new level from anything we've seen before. its like taking oov's game sense and giving him really clean production to go with it.
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
NarutO
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Germany18839 Posts
June 17 2008 10:25 GMT
#14
On June 17 2008 18:34 IdrA wrote:
Show nested quote +
I think Flashs strategy is not an auto-win. The strategy is not new, and not developed by Flash. The Flash opening without an ebay and Academy + Goliath as anti-drop with really fast upgrades were actually redesigned by Flash, but he didn't invent it.

he didnt even redesign it, you can find reps of nada doing the exact same opening from a year+ ago. flash just makes it seem different because his macro/timing/game sense is on a whole new level from anything we've seen before. its like taking oov's game sense and giving him really clean production to go with it.


I can live with that statement too, but you get the idea.
CommentatorPolt | MMA | Jjakji | BoxeR | NaDa | MVP | MKP ... truly inspiring.
born-to-porn
Profile Joined January 2004
Denmark400 Posts
June 17 2008 12:42 GMT
#15
That game was just Hero gaining a ridiculous advantage due his cloak rush (first dts then arbiters) completely caught Flash off-guard. For some reason Flash had opted not to get a scanner and only rely on turrets. I'll admit that the way Flash fought back and eventually conquered the entire right side of the map was amazing, but really the result was never in jeopardy and Hero was able to take home the win without playing very well.

Any other player than Flash would have died within 15 minutes after a start like that and the game is just a testament to Flash's insane macro and game management.

I don't even think this game should be included on the Game of the Year list, sorry
Nobody beats the Beater
Narrator
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States868 Posts
June 17 2008 13:33 GMT
#16
Great game. I think I'll watch it again.

Hero is cooler than Best!
thunk
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States6233 Posts
June 17 2008 15:30 GMT
#17
Great Read.

We just all know to fear Hero now, Wemade's Ace snipe. Flash almost played himself out of that hole too; this game is a perfect example of why he should scout more. Flash should cheese more often, but I guess that would then put him on the same level as Stork and soon fall to mediocrity.
Every time Jung Myung Hoon builds a vulture, two probes die. || My post count was a palindrome and I was never posting again.
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
June 17 2008 15:39 GMT
#18
On June 18 2008 00:30 thunk wrote:
Great Read.

We just all know to fear Hero now, Wemade's Ace snipe. Flash almost played himself out of that hole too; this game is a perfect example of why he should scout more. Flash should cheese more often, but I guess that would then put him on the same level as Stork and soon fall to mediocrity.

actually the path hes taking is the one stork took, hes found his strengths and hes relying on them to the exclusion of everything else. stork was unbeatable, until he stopped doing anything but 2 base reav drop->carrier. cheesing or at least diversifying his mid game would take him away from stork, not towards him.

and as for fear hero, no. he got a massive advantage off of an insanely risky build order and tried to play himself into a loss anyway.
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
ScarFace
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States1175 Posts
June 17 2008 16:13 GMT
#19
Idra: Isn't it a little different though? Mind you im not a top player or anything, but I always heard that Protoss and Zerg players had to vary more often. Many of their builds and timing are very specific to what their enemy is doing, or what they want to do. Dont vary, and you die. But terran is a little different, sure there are ways to abuse certain terran builds, but they can still go out with the same general strategy [varied with timing etc] and win. I think Flash will change it up a bit after this defeat [once he has a bit more time to consider new strategies that work well with him], but I still think its a little different than what Stork did.
Can you dig it?
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL 21
15:00
N-Korea Champ Playoff Day 1/2
Dewalt vs BonythLIVE!
Mihu vs TBD
QiaoGege vs TBD
ZZZero.O339
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
BRAT_OK 163
ForJumy 63
trigger 50
MindelVK 50
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 392
ZZZero.O 339
Soulkey 49
Mind 36
scan(afreeca) 23
NaDa 12
Bale 7
Last 0
Dota 2
qojqva3309
Dendi885
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
fl0m3247
ptr_tv23
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox794
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor488
Liquid`Hasu374
Other Games
summit1g5833
Grubby2139
QueenE164
Harstem164
KnowMe150
Hui .142
XaKoH 122
Livibee57
febbydoto10
OptimusSC22
Organizations
Other Games
EGCTV1481
gamesdonequick914
StarCraft 2
angryscii 15
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 8
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH146
• davetesta35
• printf 27
• Kozan
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Laughngamez YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 13
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2843
• TFBlade1191
Other Games
• imaqtpie2179
• Shiphtur505
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
5h 5m
Replay Cast
14h 5m
RongYI Cup
16h 5m
Maru vs Cyan
Solar vs Krystianer
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
17h 5m
BSL 21
20h 5m
Replay Cast
1d 5h
Wardi Open
1d 19h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 22h
OSC
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S1: W5
OSC Championship Season 13
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Rongyi Cup S3
Underdog Cup #3
Tektek Cup #1
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025

Upcoming

Acropolis #4 - TS4
Escore Tournament S1: W6
Escore Tournament S1: W7
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.