• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:39
CEST 01:39
KST 08:39
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL19Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task30[ASL19] Ro4 Recap : The Peak15
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 19-25): Hindsight is 20/20?0DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Official Replay Pack8[BSL20] RO20 Group Stage2EWC 2025 Regional Qualifiers (May 28-June 1)16Weekly Cups (May 12-18): Clem sweeps WardiTV May3
StarCraft 2
General
Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN Can anyone explain to me why u cant veto a matchup The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL Karma, Domino Effect, and how it relates to SC2. Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator
Tourneys
EWC 2025 Regional Qualifiers (May 28-June 1) [GSL 2025] Code S:Season 2 - RO12 - Group B DreamHack Dallas 2025 [GSL 2025] Code S:Season 2 - RO12 - Group A RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance Mutation # 473 Cold is the Void Mutation # 472 Dead Heat
Brood War
General
Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans? BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Battle.net is not working BW General Discussion Practice Partners (Official)
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals [BSL20] RO20 Group D - Sunday 20:00 CET [BSL20] RO20 Group B - Saturday 20:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Monster Hunter Wilds Beyond All Reason Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Plays: Diplomacy TL Mafia: Generative Agents Showdown Survivor II: The Amazon
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread All you football fans (soccer)! European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread NHL Playoffs 2024 Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL.net Ten Commandments
Blogs
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Yes Sir! How Commanding Impr…
TrAiDoS
Poker
Nebuchad
Info SLEgma_12
SLEgma_12
SECOND COMMING
XenOsky
WombaT’s Old BW Terran Theme …
WombaT
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 17784 users

HerO_V vs By.Flash [14 June, 2008] 2set @ PL

Blogs > Goosey
Post a Reply
Goosey
Profile Blog Joined September 2005
United States695 Posts
June 17 2008 06:33 GMT
#1
Jesus. Fucking.. Christ...

Is it really too early to declare a game of the year yet? I mean really?

Watch This Game Now:
+ Show Spoiler +


Ok, are we all caught up? Spoiler time!
+ Show Spoiler +

Ok I have to start off by saying.. While I found this to be the most amazing game I have seen yet this year I don't think this is actually game-of-the-year material. The reason is simply that it is a one sided rape and the amazing comeback that Flash pulls off looks to me more like HerO_V was just cracking under the pressure.

Hell I was about to get on a plane to Korea and bitch slap HerO_V myself if he let Flash take that game away from him. You can see it in his eyes when Flash's un-fucking-stoppable push just keeps rolling closer and closer... He is starting to panic.

Thankfully he takes a moment to compose himself. This is seen in the game when he stops throwing small groups of dragoons and zealots and Flash's fully upgraded tank ball and collects all those Arbiters he left just sort of hanging out.

And he thinks. Flash has a 3/3 ball of doom. I can't break it. But he has pretty much every unit sitting on the opposite end of the map so.. Recall! Once he took down the top-right expos his goal of starving Flash out took reality. Also by getting his units spread across the map he was able to pull something off I don't think I have ever seen in a PvT before: a full 360 degree surround. Finally the terran blob is broken. Fucking terran.

So HerO_V's opening.. To me this seemed like it was a tailor-made Flash-stomper of an opening. Flash has shown he is a versatile player: he has amazing macro, but is also quite capable of the cheese rush. He has shown that against opponents like Shuttle he is quite capable of doing an early push if he sees an opportunity. So what gives?

This build HerO_V did fucking defines greedy. 14nex into a god damned sprint for Arbiters. How big was his army when that first Arbiter came out? Something like 8 goons and 2 zealots? Madness. How could Flash not punish such a build?

Well I guess HerO_V has simply been paying very close attention to Flash's recent proleague auto-wins. Flash has it tough man.. He is the guy on top that everyone is aiming to knock down and he is currently pushing his way towards the finals of THREE star leagues. So this doesn't really leave a lot of room for proleague preperation, yet he is used. He is always used.

So what I have noticed in Flash's recent proleague games is that he has taken the mindset that he doesn't give a fuck what his opponent is doing (mind you I am talking about TvP only right now). As long as he can secure his 3 bases and do his little turtle-till-3/3-and-200 dance he feels like there is nothing any toss can fucking do. Why prepare when you have an auto-win strategy?

Well HerO_V takes advantage of this mindset in two ways. First he does the greediest build imaginable. Only way it could have been even more greedy is if he cut goons to get his 3rd up quicker, but hell that 3rd was still up at what I would call a pretty fast timing.

AND he had arbiters.. which he uses to great effect. It must take a lot of guts to go recall several times into the base of a Terran who has not moved out. Who has not had his tank count reduced through skirmishes. Flash is just sitting back macroing it up: obviously he is going to be able to respond to recalls quickly..

But the recalls happen. And somehow they work really really well. They even create enough chaos to allow Flash's 4th to be run over. Total domination!

We arrive at the point of the match that has HerO_V at 6 bases and Flash at 2. The SCV count has been reduced. HerO_V is looking like he will be maxing any second while Flash is trying to crawl back from what.. about 100-130 supply?

So HerO_V enters the 'starve Flash' stage of his strategy. He has been greedy enough to allow him to do some unforeseen damage to Flash's macro.. And this has given him total map dominance.. and now he just needs to keep expanding, keep making gateways, and wait for Flash to starve out.

And now we are back to the point I was discussing at the beginning of this spoiler.

Sorry if this was a bit rambly and hard to read.. Wrote it while very sleepy and very excited..

Also, I haven't watched it yet but I hear that this series contains 1 other amazing epic game.. See if you can guess which one!


#1 Shuttle Fan.
blabber
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States4448 Posts
June 17 2008 06:54 GMT
#2
good stuff
blabberrrrr
NarutO
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Germany18839 Posts
June 17 2008 06:59 GMT
#3
Good read. I think HerO_V_ was suprised how well it worked out and thought he already won after he was on like 6 bases and Flash was on 2. Still Flash's level was so high and HerO_V_ underestimated the still existant threat and nearly got punished for it.

I think Flashs strategy is not an auto-win. The strategy is not new, and not developed by Flash. The Flash opening without an ebay and Academy + Goliath as anti-drop with really fast upgrades were actually redesigned by Flash, but he didn't invent it.

So you will see. If you are a top player you will have a hard time, because there are so many matches of you and so many ways to analyse your style. What do you think how many games Hero_V_ saw of Flash and what do you think how many games Flash watched from HerO? I think Flash didn't even care his opponent is HerO_V_.

Whenever a player is successful lots of games will be shown and lots of games can be analysed. This will end in anti-strategies for exactly that player on exactly that special map (any map given).
Note: Players like OOv / NaDa were very hard to beat, because its not hard to analyse them. It was just their timing / macro to that time, that were overwhelming and on another level.
CommentatorPolt | MMA | Jjakji | BoxeR | NaDa | MVP | MKP ... truly inspiring.
alffla
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Hong Kong20321 Posts
June 17 2008 07:20 GMT
#4
shit i didnt know this game was so epic lol
thanks for the blog

O_O
Graphicssavior[gm] : What is a “yawn” rape ;; Masumune - It was the year of the pig for those fucking defilers. Chill - A clinic you say? okum: SC without Korean yelling is like porn without sex. konamix: HAPPY BIRTHDAY MOMMY!
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
June 17 2008 07:23 GMT
#5
haha it feels like flash is the new savior or w/e, lot of love and lot of hate
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
DeadVessel
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
United States6269 Posts
June 17 2008 07:54 GMT
#6
hero <3

yeah really great game ^^
B1nary
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada1267 Posts
June 17 2008 07:54 GMT
#7
It really looked like HerO_V_ was gonna lose when that giant blob of tanks rolled out. I looked somewhat like oov playing back there. battle... battle... tanks die... battle some more... more stuff dies... OMFG WHERE ALL THOSE TANKS COME FROM???!!!
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
June 17 2008 07:58 GMT
#8
On June 17 2008 16:54 B1nary wrote:
It really looked like HerO_V_ was gonna lose when that giant blob of tanks rolled out. I looked somewhat like oov playing back there. battle... battle... tanks die... battle some more... more stuff dies... OMFG WHERE ALL THOSE TANKS COME FROM???!!!

ahhaa yeah! does feel like that...
it's kind of the tank formation though, flash always had a blob of tanks hanging bit back, so when the goon 'flank' killed what is appeared to the be tank army, there's a shitton more in the back still.
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
Luddite
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States2315 Posts
June 17 2008 08:05 GMT
#9
reminds me a lot of that epic foru vs. nada game.
Can't believe I'm still here playing this same game
G5
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States2896 Posts
June 17 2008 08:20 GMT
#10
great game but ya, way to early to declare it game of the year. or even game of the year so far.
Holylight
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Korea (South)460 Posts
June 17 2008 09:01 GMT
#11
did you miss lomo vs kwanro? that game is really sick
Guss
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Sweden712 Posts
June 17 2008 09:26 GMT
#12
On June 17 2008 18:01 Holylight wrote:
did you miss lomo vs kwanro? that game is really sick


that game is really 1 sided rape
Bisu[Shield] FIGHTING!
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
June 17 2008 09:34 GMT
#13
I think Flashs strategy is not an auto-win. The strategy is not new, and not developed by Flash. The Flash opening without an ebay and Academy + Goliath as anti-drop with really fast upgrades were actually redesigned by Flash, but he didn't invent it.

he didnt even redesign it, you can find reps of nada doing the exact same opening from a year+ ago. flash just makes it seem different because his macro/timing/game sense is on a whole new level from anything we've seen before. its like taking oov's game sense and giving him really clean production to go with it.
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
NarutO
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Germany18839 Posts
June 17 2008 10:25 GMT
#14
On June 17 2008 18:34 IdrA wrote:
Show nested quote +
I think Flashs strategy is not an auto-win. The strategy is not new, and not developed by Flash. The Flash opening without an ebay and Academy + Goliath as anti-drop with really fast upgrades were actually redesigned by Flash, but he didn't invent it.

he didnt even redesign it, you can find reps of nada doing the exact same opening from a year+ ago. flash just makes it seem different because his macro/timing/game sense is on a whole new level from anything we've seen before. its like taking oov's game sense and giving him really clean production to go with it.


I can live with that statement too, but you get the idea.
CommentatorPolt | MMA | Jjakji | BoxeR | NaDa | MVP | MKP ... truly inspiring.
born-to-porn
Profile Joined January 2004
Denmark400 Posts
June 17 2008 12:42 GMT
#15
That game was just Hero gaining a ridiculous advantage due his cloak rush (first dts then arbiters) completely caught Flash off-guard. For some reason Flash had opted not to get a scanner and only rely on turrets. I'll admit that the way Flash fought back and eventually conquered the entire right side of the map was amazing, but really the result was never in jeopardy and Hero was able to take home the win without playing very well.

Any other player than Flash would have died within 15 minutes after a start like that and the game is just a testament to Flash's insane macro and game management.

I don't even think this game should be included on the Game of the Year list, sorry
Nobody beats the Beater
Narrator
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States868 Posts
June 17 2008 13:33 GMT
#16
Great game. I think I'll watch it again.

Hero is cooler than Best!
thunk
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States6233 Posts
June 17 2008 15:30 GMT
#17
Great Read.

We just all know to fear Hero now, Wemade's Ace snipe. Flash almost played himself out of that hole too; this game is a perfect example of why he should scout more. Flash should cheese more often, but I guess that would then put him on the same level as Stork and soon fall to mediocrity.
Every time Jung Myung Hoon builds a vulture, two probes die. || My post count was a palindrome and I was never posting again.
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
June 17 2008 15:39 GMT
#18
On June 18 2008 00:30 thunk wrote:
Great Read.

We just all know to fear Hero now, Wemade's Ace snipe. Flash almost played himself out of that hole too; this game is a perfect example of why he should scout more. Flash should cheese more often, but I guess that would then put him on the same level as Stork and soon fall to mediocrity.

actually the path hes taking is the one stork took, hes found his strengths and hes relying on them to the exclusion of everything else. stork was unbeatable, until he stopped doing anything but 2 base reav drop->carrier. cheesing or at least diversifying his mid game would take him away from stork, not towards him.

and as for fear hero, no. he got a massive advantage off of an insanely risky build order and tried to play himself into a loss anyway.
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
ScarFace
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States1175 Posts
June 17 2008 16:13 GMT
#19
Idra: Isn't it a little different though? Mind you im not a top player or anything, but I always heard that Protoss and Zerg players had to vary more often. Many of their builds and timing are very specific to what their enemy is doing, or what they want to do. Dont vary, and you die. But terran is a little different, sure there are ways to abuse certain terran builds, but they can still go out with the same general strategy [varied with timing etc] and win. I think Flash will change it up a bit after this defeat [once he has a bit more time to consider new strategies that work well with him], but I still think its a little different than what Stork did.
Can you dig it?
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Road to EWC
22:00
Americas Open Qualifiers #2
CranKy Ducklings259
CosmosSc2 119
EnkiAlexander 99
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
JuggernautJason212
CosmosSc2 119
RuFF_SC2 115
Livibee 99
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 762
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1363
Foxcn605
Coldzera 542
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox556
AZ_Axe181
Mew2King93
Chillindude20
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby3883
Khaldor112
Other Games
summit1g14680
shahzam692
Day[9].tv660
C9.Mang0372
JimRising 310
ViBE248
Maynarde146
Skadoodle126
KnowMe31
trigger6
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick708
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 81
• davetesta36
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki37
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22659
• Ler90
League of Legends
• Doublelift3852
• Shiphtur648
Other Games
• imaqtpie1584
• Day9tv660
Upcoming Events
Road to EWC
9h 21m
Road to EWC
10h 21m
Road to EWC
22h 21m
Road to EWC
1d 9h
Road to EWC
1d 16h
BSL Season 20
1d 18h
Sziky vs Razz
Sziky vs StRyKeR
Sziky vs DragOn
Sziky vs Tech
Razz vs StRyKeR
Razz vs DragOn
Razz vs Tech
DragOn vs Tech
Online Event
2 days
Clem vs ShoWTimE
herO vs MaxPax
Road to EWC
2 days
BSL Season 20
2 days
Bonyth vs Doodle
Bonyth vs izu
Bonyth vs MadiNho
Bonyth vs TerrOr
MadiNho vs TerrOr
Doodle vs izu
Doodle vs MadiNho
Doodle vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-05-28
DreamHack Dallas 2025
Calamity Stars S2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL Season 17: Qualifier 1
2025 GSL S2
Heroes 10 EU
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025
ESL Pro League S21

Upcoming

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLAN 2025
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.