Ask iNcontroL - Page 46

On May 06 2011 12:14 iNcontroL wrote:
No joke.. you guys can talk wh40k / tyranids all damn day and I'd just sit here and drool lol

I'M LOVING THIS PLZ KEEP GOING

That gun has absolutely no ap and that gun replaces one of my 2 pairs of scything talons, which I need to reroll 1s and 3s in CC. Also, the genestealers no longer have an hq, and the tyrant is mostly used for support and synapse for my gargoyles and other instinctive behavior creatures, while giving me hive commander. A vital upgrade on my deep-strikey army.

Also, the genestealers no longer have an hq,

On May 06 2011 13:15 Belial88 wrote:
K lemme bust out the codex LOL

A lot has changed so I think some of what I said is outdated, one sec.



Basically any gun with an AP 'lower', or a higher number, than 3 basically has no AP value - this is because 4+ and up armor save is pretty useless when compared to mass attack. So if the choice is a gun with Dmg/AP of 5/4 vs 6/6, go for 6/6. If it's 4/3 vs 6/4, go for the 4/3 (unless specializing against lower AP, or non space marine). The mass attacks of the Devourer (i think thats the 6x gun right) just completely outnumbers AP value.

Tyrand has very few AP guns, they win by sheer, sheer number of attacks. The good BS of the Hive Tyrant with the cheap BS upgrade makes the double linked devourers absolutely insane. 3+ to hit, re-roll if fail to hit. It's just massive attacks.

So with the same logic, the barbed strangler isn't that good. The AP is too low to make it effective against most opponents. If all you are facing is enemy tyranid, than maybe, but it's pretty bad. In general, the BS of all Tyrand is so low - at 3, or 4+ to hit at best, means you should really avoid using guns on Tyranid except the few units that roll 3+ to hit, which I believe is just the Hive Tyrant, that new guard unit, and the Zoanthrope. Those should be the only shooting units, with the exception of Termagants.

If you want a race that shoots, pick Tau. But if you try to shoot with Tyranid, you will be severely frustrated by their horrible BS.



'Broodlord' I guess he's a sort of Troop captain. If you re going to use genestealers, you need one. Genestealers aren't that great anymore since Edition 2, but with a Broodlord you can still snipe terminators.

Oh and Tervigon. Really bad unit. Rolling double will really screw you over, and the cost is so expensive you could have 32 Termagants. Taking an average of 6 termagants spawned, that's 6x6turns=36, and the chacne of a double really drops it. Also, the termagants aren't there form the start of the game to be useful, so it's a pretty bad unit.

Your right about Trygon vs Mawloc. Trygon is best used as a transport unit, so you should take advantage of that. As synapse with the Prime, you should just get a prime trygon and get rid of the flying tyrant. Also, no point in gargoyles if you can teleport in bajillion termagants.

Um lets say when I stopped playing there was this crazy idea that "Necrons" were going to be the new race and when White Dwarf delivered a few necron preview units they looked like a joke. I understand theres like 4 new races now lol SoB, some knights of anti-chaos, tau.... Dark eldar are removed but fans have created codii to make them work? Dark eldar always sucked. Anyways, I've kept up with always buying the codex, keeping up with the game form, and painting every once in a while. I was a bigger painter than gamer.

The few games I've played recently was with some douche. First he played that Eldar race Saim Hain and had like 6 of the flying big tanks, not falcons (well he had like 2-3 falcons and warp prisms too which was super gay) and not the small jetbikes but the actual mini tanks. Then he had that star scatter cannon which shoots 36", and ability to move and shoot. He exploited some rule that saimhain has where those flying big jetbikes could be considered troop units under SamHain, so he had 6 when you normally are only allowed 2 or 3, as Fast attack. I believe he had 8-9, 6 as troop then as fast attack. He had a few small jetbikes as his HQ squad. His warp prisms or whatever with 72" just sniped shit all game, and then his 6 'troops' minifalcons just kited me all game. Big table, really fucking gay. Never got a unit within 12", my only kills were biovores. So the next game is Space marine vs Space marine, and this game he has like 6 Terminators to a squad, which was gay because I was playing Dark Angels, the terminator special army, but they ahve a rule where you can only have 5 terminators per squad. Somehow he managed to have like 5 squads of terminators and a single squad of marines (all with plasma cannons too) and terminators with gattling gun. Really fucking gay too. So both games he exploited some gayass rule that counted units as troops when they shouldn't be. I mean g1 is 10 jetbikes that move and shoot with 36" range so I have no hope of getting close, g2 is 90% terminators (i think over 30 terminators) using another gayass rule.

But you need at least 50 termagants or homogaunts. They are so cheap, you just remove like a single upgrade on one of your bosses and you can boom have a huge bunch of them lol.

Genestealers are still great and can still pick off terminators without a broodlord, especially if you get to reroll with wounds with toxin sacs on a 4+. Overall, they get 16 attacks. Now double the to wound rolls so that's effectively 32 rending attacks with a mostly 4+ to wound. Genestealers aren't terrible without a broodlord.

Tervigon is also a beast in CC,you know with a 6/6/6 MC with a 3+ save and 6 attacks.

I don't need 50 termagants and hormagaunts, cause tha'ts a sure fire way to lose to any aoe, without ever getting across the board. Do you know the new synapse rules? Cause if I had that amny gants then they'd just hide in cover all game waiting for someone to come so they can SHOOT with their retartedly bad guns.

On May 06 2011 16:37 Belial88 wrote:
^ Yea don't use the barbed strangler on the tyrant (they got rid of those augmentations, those were cool not sure why they got rid of them all). While it's a beastly weapon, with a BS of 3 you can't really use single or even double shot weapons. In a 6 turn game, that's 6 shots x .5 chance of hitting = 3 shots at most. Given it really doesn't have any practical AP (5=no AP against anything that matters, and such a bad save doesn't really matter for those that do have 5 armor), that means, say, a space marine will save from 2/3s of it. So 1/2 of shots fired land, and although 5/6 does damage (6 strength vs 4 toughness), that's only 1/3 of them killed. So:

6 x .5 x .33 x 4 = = 3.268 marines killed.
Turns x BS x Armor Save x 4 marines in large blast splash (5 is max possible, 3 is what's probable).

You're paying a huge amount of points just to kill 3 marines.

As I said before: If a unit has a BS of 3 or below, do not use ranged weapons on it, do not upgrade it's weapons, do not buy weapons. Do not even use the unit. The only exception is Twin-Linked Devourers because massive fire rate and twin linked to reroll misses, and the termagant because it's ridiculously cheap.

I believe Space Marines have things that prevent pinning - high leadership, fearless stuff, not able to get pinned, especially units like Dark Angels. Anyways, there are better ways to reduce morale - like killing things. Do not use ranged on BS 3 tyranids!!!



Broodlord is an amazing unit for it's cost, there's no reason not to have it. For 46 points you get some crazy leadership modifiers which will guarantee the enemy will fall back. It's a really good deal, even though it's been nerfed quite a bit.



The problem is people will just run away from it lol. I believe there's a rule that Tyrand ALWAYS needs to be on the offensive (may have been changed?). Either way, it won't really fulfill it's goals and you could just use a carnifex for the immovable object the enemy desperately avoids. Your point list is way too small to field tervigons. If you were working with 2K+ then it may be reasonable.



Aoe isn't that great in 40k, it's not like starcraft2. The point of the swarm is to keep the enemy embroiled in close combat until the big guys get there and just smash. You have to have a few squads of warriors, lots of synapse for sure. A few cheap squads of warriors go a long way, there a huge benefits to synapse as well.

Lashwhip is pretty lame, your tyrant will have a higher initiative than most models anyways and is tough enough to survive. I dont really like the bonesword as much, it's great for sniping monstrous creatures but the tyrant already ignores armor saves, and the kind of units that it'd be useful for would have a high enough leadership to hold over anways.

I feel like you are picking a lot of the stuff because its super cool - doom, barbed strangler, lots of big creatures, goofy weapons that do absoluetly epic things but in reality have low chances of even doing anything (and in this game it's all or nothing, it's not like you get half the effect for rolling average). You need to bet on the odds a bit more.

Generally the best armies are either full of a certain awesome unit that's a bit lower on upgrades but you field more of them, or a huge swarm of crap. Usually you supplement the awesomeness with things like warriors, genestealers, zoanthropes, but just upgrading everything you have is kind of useless.

On May 06 2011 17:14 Belial88 wrote:
However a nidzilla list is extremely strong at your point level, and doesn't include swarm which you seem to hate so much. A flying tyrant with twin devourers is absolutely vicious, everything just dies within 12'. Very good way to actualyl take out large numbers of troops so monstrous creatures can sweep up... like th flyrant itself.

Youc an rely on genestealers as the troop choice to ignore synapse.

Have around 5-6 Carnifexes and a hive tyrant. Some warriors or not, maybe a special thing like trygon.

On May 06 2011 17:15 Belial88 wrote:
No I haven't lol.

Your build is just a bit schizo, some sort of swarm is generally the best but nidzilla is also a very good cookie cutter build that just rapes. You have too many upgrades and aren't getting enough units, you have almost one of everything. You can find some good guides online about the subject, but the general idea is you want to cut down on upgrades like that, maybe have a single decked out unit but the fact you are just putting awesome on every unit is a bit ridiculous. I may be a bit off on the specifics, but I do still remember the basics of building an army.

To get to the point you should run an army with maybe a flying dakkafex, maybe 2 of both dakkafex and CC upgraded carnifex, and then fill it up with what you need afterwards. A few gaunts, some warriors with fire support to stay back for synapse, another special unit if you can like trygon. People generally don't put a bunch of upgrades on everything, you want to be pumping lots of monstrous creatures and a lot of those upgrades are very specific that have a chance of working only in a specific situation down to a diceroll.

On May 06 2011 19:36 Belial88 wrote:
I edited to add content, I didn't edit anything out of my posts.

It's a pretty common build, especially for 1500-1750 pt armies. I'm not sure what you are so angry about, I've won quite a few local tournaments and even won games in Golden Demon. I know I may not be perfectly up to date, but go to any 40k forum and they'll tell you the same thing. I didn't say anything about flying fex's. You seem to have an affinity for cutesy units so I'm telling you something that works. What doesn't work is having a bunch of useless upgrades on your units like boneswords and barbed stranglers and one of every kind of MC. You don't have to take my advice if your going to get pissy about it, if things change so be it, but things didn't change that much. Nidzilla still owns at the 1500-1750.

Carnifexen got hit with the nerf bat fairly hard in this edition, but they can still be effective in the right situations. Unfortunately, these situations are pretty scarce and in most cases there are better choices to take in the Heavy Support slot (either due to more wounds, better CC, or better specialization).

I think it works. Be sure to keep that Hive Tyrant behind cover because your list greatly benefits from Hive commander and you have more important things to FNP, and when your Hive commander is buffing those reserve rolls, it will hurt the opponent. Keep in mind most heavy shots will be going into your Trygon and Shrikes, so I would recommend keeping the shrikes hidden at all times, if not then FNP them cause at 5+ they tend to drop fast and to everything (even with 4+ cover). Always keep in mind trying to have the Tervigon FNP those shrikes the turn they assault.

On February 21 2011 12:55 iNcontroL wrote:
poe hawthorne vonnegut

butcher rr martin

I am way into sci-fi and fantasy atm. I love reading but I would never claim to have the "pure" sensibilities with it. Meaning I like a lot of cheesy stuff.

On May 09 2011 07:36 XanosGFB wrote:

Hey iNcontroL,

The more and more I get into the SC2 community, the more respect I have for you as a person and a player...

Then I saw this...




Butcher FTW! So what are your thoughts on Changes? Also Jim has come out and said that Proven Guilty was ALL Mab. Given with what's been going on with her the past couple of books, any thoughts as to what she's up to?