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On January 15 2008 02:50 MenzieK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2008 21:08 fanatacist wrote:On January 14 2008 15:18 Macavenger wrote:
MenzieK, I'm really curious who you think is the best player in the world currently, if not Jaedong? Just ignore him, he is borderline retarded. WTF was that attack for? I never said anything to you or anything to anyone else. I have never really made any stupid retarded posts, that was completely uncalled for. I don't think there really is a dominant player yet, and I'm quite skeptical of Jaedong.
Everyone that has responded here has made some form of counter to your initial argument, and continued to dominate your position, and you continue speaking on general terms that prove nothing. Not uncalled for in the slightest.
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On January 15 2008 06:01 fanatacist wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2008 02:50 MenzieK wrote:On January 14 2008 21:08 fanatacist wrote:On January 14 2008 15:18 Macavenger wrote:
MenzieK, I'm really curious who you think is the best player in the world currently, if not Jaedong? Just ignore him, he is borderline retarded. WTF was that attack for? I never said anything to you or anything to anyone else. I have never really made any stupid retarded posts, that was completely uncalled for. I don't think there really is a dominant player yet, and I'm quite skeptical of Jaedong. Everyone that has responded here has made some form of counter to your initial argument, and continued to dominate your position, and you continue speaking on general terms that prove nothing. Not uncalled for in the slightest.
Players who have won an OSL first have not really won MSL's or have been consistent in both leagues. People who have won MSL's first have managed to stay consistent in both leagues OSl and MSL. Look at Gorush, and how he did after his victory over Nada. Then there is GGplay, who won Daum OSL but was tossed away. Look at Anytime, he won an OSL, then had to do good 2 OSL's after to reach shinhan OSL 2 which he didn't even win.
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Uh, you realize you're 4 days slow on a retort?
Also, who the hell cares what the previous trends were? The past results of people in a similar position do not dictate the results of Jaedong. The difference between him and say someone like Mind is that though Mind is a solid player with an MSL win, Jaedong not only has an OSL win but he has also been consistently dominant in 2 match-ups and has defeated Bisu in the third, whose specialty is PvZ. Sure you can say that it was more carelessness on Bisu's part, but it's still a fact that Jaedong is the most dominant player right now. Telling me to look at someone else's previous results is faulty logic - look at Jaedong's games NOW.
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On January 19 2008 05:18 fanatacist wrote:
Uh, you realize you're 4 days slow on a retort?
Also, who the hell cares what the previous trends were? The past results of people in a similar position do not dictate the results of Jaedong. The difference between him and say someone like Mind is that though Mind is a solid player with an MSL win, Jaedong not only has an OSL win but he has also been consistently dominant in 2 match-ups and has defeated Bisu in the third, whose specialty is PvZ. Sure you can say that it was more carelessness on Bisu's part, but it's still a fact that Jaedong is the most dominant player right now. Telling me to look at someone else's previous results is faulty logic - look at Jaedong's games NOW.
Sorry, I have other stuff to do besides stay on teamliquid. Even if Jaedong was dominant in a few games he still has to show us more of himself. Past trends can tell us a lot about players performance. I still want to see more of Jaedong and see if he is really the uber dominant player everyone makes him to be.
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bisu will come back as a bigger dork. YaaaaaaaY!
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On January 19 2008 05:35 MenzieK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2008 05:18 fanatacist wrote:
Uh, you realize you're 4 days slow on a retort?
Also, who the hell cares what the previous trends were? The past results of people in a similar position do not dictate the results of Jaedong. The difference between him and say someone like Mind is that though Mind is a solid player with an MSL win, Jaedong not only has an OSL win but he has also been consistently dominant in 2 match-ups and has defeated Bisu in the third, whose specialty is PvZ. Sure you can say that it was more carelessness on Bisu's part, but it's still a fact that Jaedong is the most dominant player right now. Telling me to look at someone else's previous results is faulty logic - look at Jaedong's games NOW. Sorry, I have other stuff to do besides stay on teamliquid. Even if Jaedong was dominant in a few games he still has to show us more of himself. Past trends can tell us a lot about players performance. I still want to see more of Jaedong and see if he is really the uber dominant player everyone makes him to be.
It reflects in your ignorance to the argument at hand.
A few games? So you are saying the August-November 12-0 ZvT streak (if I recall correctly, it was probably longer and bigger) is saying nothing? His current ZvZ being 75.68%? The fact that he defeated (many of them repeatedly) July, Savior, Bisu, Free, Canata, Yellow[Arnc], Stork, UpMagic, Light, Iris, Nada, GGPlay, Hwasin, XellOs, Mind, Sea, Boxer, Nal_rA, Luxury, and iloveoov in the past 6 or 7 months? You still want to see more, what the fuck? Perhaps you should spend a little more time on Teamliquid before you make idiotic arguments.
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WTF? Nada was slumping and not really playing to his fullest when he fought Jaedong in EVER OSL, same with Xellos. Yellow isn't known for his ZvZ, and July has beaten Jaedong, their score is 2:2, but really should be 2:1 since pro league should not always count. Savior has beaten Jaedong plenty of times before, and Jaedong in Savior when it was the worst time for him as he was slumping in the aftermath of the Bisu/FBH showdown that he had. Mind, stork, upmagic, GGplay, aren't known for their great play againts other zergs. Ra and oov aren't playing to their fullest either, Hwasin was focusing more on TvP just to beat Bisu, and Canata is a new boy. Jeadong just beat Bisu once in which Bisu did lose but did not lose to Jaedong like how Free lost to Savior several times.
Luxury beat Jaedong more then Jaedong beat him. I believe several members already mentioned before that Jaedong was trying to break Yellow's ZvT streak which he failed to do.
I don't always have time to stay on teamliquid and i'm sure many well known members don't. Please stop trying to take crap out of your ass.
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On January 19 2008 06:54 MenzieK wrote:
WTF? Nada was slumping and not really playing to his fullest when he fought Jaedong in EVER OSL, same with Xellos. Yellow isn't known for his ZvZ, and July has beaten Jaedong, their score is 2:2, but really should be 2:1 since pro league should not always count. Savior has beaten Jaedong plenty of times before, and Jaedong in Savior when it was the worst time for him as he was slumping in the aftermath of the Bisu/FBH showdown that he had. Mind, stork, upmagic, GGplay, aren't known for their great play againts other zergs. Ra and oov aren't playing to their fullest either, Hwasin was focusing more on TvP just to beat Bisu, and Canata is a new boy. Jeadong just beat Bisu once in which Bisu did lose but did not lose to Jaedong like how Free lost to Savior several times.
Luxury beat Jaedong more then Jaedong beat him. I believe several members already mentioned before that Jaedong was trying to break Yellow's ZvT streak which he failed to do.
I don't always have time to stay on teamliquid and i'm sure many well known members don't. Please stop trying to take crap out of your ass.
Lol, so just because some people are focusing more on one race than another for a specific opponent, it somehow makes Jaedong's overwhelming play less powerful? These people are PRO gamers, they don't drop a MU entirely just for the sake of one, that would be strategically stupid - the point I'm making is that they were still pro players, most of them with sufficient mastery vZ. I'm not talking just numbers (and if you had noticed, I mentioned in the past 6-7 months - in which time he had positive records on pretty much ALL of these players. Even if he didn't, taking wins from the greats is still something worth noting, especially over a half-year period.), I'm talking style and gameplay, making him truly dominant and not just a lucky winner as you make him out to be. The chances of Jaedong getting that far with EVERY player ignoring the vZ MU is zero, or even diminishing its importance. The idea that people would not start noticing HIM and try to improve their TvZ, for example, to face him is also zero. With Yellow, once again you try to bring up past events that have absolutely no importance in the present - just because someone has had a better % or streak than him, which there undoubtedly have been players of that caliber, doesn't mean that CURRENTLY he is not the number one player, dominating the scene in ZvT and ZvZ and recently gaining momentum in ZvP. A month ago, I would say Bisu was the most dominant. With Jaedong's recent growth in ZvP, that makes him best or near-best in two MUs, and a rising power in another. If that's not enough to consider him the most dominant player at this moment after these facts... I'd have to say you're just fighting out of pride and stupidity, and nothing else.
Also, if I wasn't taking a crap out of my ass, where would I take it out of? You idiot.
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On January 19 2008 08:32 fanatacist wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2008 06:54 MenzieK wrote:
WTF? Nada was slumping and not really playing to his fullest when he fought Jaedong in EVER OSL, same with Xellos. Yellow isn't known for his ZvZ, and July has beaten Jaedong, their score is 2:2, but really should be 2:1 since pro league should not always count. Savior has beaten Jaedong plenty of times before, and Jaedong in Savior when it was the worst time for him as he was slumping in the aftermath of the Bisu/FBH showdown that he had. Mind, stork, upmagic, GGplay, aren't known for their great play againts other zergs. Ra and oov aren't playing to their fullest either, Hwasin was focusing more on TvP just to beat Bisu, and Canata is a new boy. Jeadong just beat Bisu once in which Bisu did lose but did not lose to Jaedong like how Free lost to Savior several times.
Luxury beat Jaedong more then Jaedong beat him. I believe several members already mentioned before that Jaedong was trying to break Yellow's ZvT streak which he failed to do.
I don't always have time to stay on teamliquid and i'm sure many well known members don't. Please stop trying to take crap out of your ass.
Lol, so just because some people are focusing more on one race than another for a specific opponent, it somehow makes Jaedong's overwhelming play less powerful? These people are PRO gamers, they don't drop a MU entirely just for the sake of one, that would be strategically stupid - the point I'm making is that they were still pro players, most of them with sufficient mastery vZ. I'm not talking just numbers (and if you had noticed, I mentioned in the past 6-7 months - in which time he had positive records on pretty much ALL of these players. Even if he didn't, taking wins from the greats is still something worth noting, especially over a half-year period.), I'm talking style and gameplay, making him truly dominant and not just a lucky winner as you make him out to be. The chances of Jaedong getting that far with EVERY player ignoring the vZ MU is zero, or even diminishing its importance. The idea that people would not start noticing HIM and try to improve their TvZ, for example, to face him is also zero. With Yellow, once again you try to bring up past events that have absolutely no importance in the present - just because someone has had a better % or streak than him, which there undoubtedly have been players of that caliber, doesn't mean that CURRENTLY he is not the number one player, dominating the scene in ZvT and ZvZ and recently gaining momentum in ZvP. A month ago, I would say Bisu was the most dominant. With Jaedong's recent growth in ZvP, that makes him best or near-best in two MUs, and a rising power in another. If that's not enough to consider him the most dominant player at this moment after these facts... I'd have to say you're just fighting out of pride and stupidity, and nothing else. Also, if I wasn't taking a crap out of my ass, where would I take it out of? You idiot.
Out of your anus of course, and yes progamers do have weak matchups. Past events matter because it can tell us about player performance. I already stated that he didn't beat Bisu in a domineering fashion. The chances are not zero, players have won consistently without facing a certain matchup. Most of the players that he faced were not concentrating the matchup or were slumping heavily. July and luxury beat Jaedong, and I don't think he is as dominant as you make him out to be, and just look at his one game vs sheis. Face it, he still has to prove that he is a Savior.
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On January 20 2008 06:16 MenzieK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2008 08:32 fanatacist wrote:On January 19 2008 06:54 MenzieK wrote:
WTF? Nada was slumping and not really playing to his fullest when he fought Jaedong in EVER OSL, same with Xellos. Yellow isn't known for his ZvZ, and July has beaten Jaedong, their score is 2:2, but really should be 2:1 since pro league should not always count. Savior has beaten Jaedong plenty of times before, and Jaedong in Savior when it was the worst time for him as he was slumping in the aftermath of the Bisu/FBH showdown that he had. Mind, stork, upmagic, GGplay, aren't known for their great play againts other zergs. Ra and oov aren't playing to their fullest either, Hwasin was focusing more on TvP just to beat Bisu, and Canata is a new boy. Jeadong just beat Bisu once in which Bisu did lose but did not lose to Jaedong like how Free lost to Savior several times.
Luxury beat Jaedong more then Jaedong beat him. I believe several members already mentioned before that Jaedong was trying to break Yellow's ZvT streak which he failed to do.
I don't always have time to stay on teamliquid and i'm sure many well known members don't. Please stop trying to take crap out of your ass.
Lol, so just because some people are focusing more on one race than another for a specific opponent, it somehow makes Jaedong's overwhelming play less powerful? These people are PRO gamers, they don't drop a MU entirely just for the sake of one, that would be strategically stupid - the point I'm making is that they were still pro players, most of them with sufficient mastery vZ. I'm not talking just numbers (and if you had noticed, I mentioned in the past 6-7 months - in which time he had positive records on pretty much ALL of these players. Even if he didn't, taking wins from the greats is still something worth noting, especially over a half-year period.), I'm talking style and gameplay, making him truly dominant and not just a lucky winner as you make him out to be. The chances of Jaedong getting that far with EVERY player ignoring the vZ MU is zero, or even diminishing its importance. The idea that people would not start noticing HIM and try to improve their TvZ, for example, to face him is also zero. With Yellow, once again you try to bring up past events that have absolutely no importance in the present - just because someone has had a better % or streak than him, which there undoubtedly have been players of that caliber, doesn't mean that CURRENTLY he is not the number one player, dominating the scene in ZvT and ZvZ and recently gaining momentum in ZvP. A month ago, I would say Bisu was the most dominant. With Jaedong's recent growth in ZvP, that makes him best or near-best in two MUs, and a rising power in another. If that's not enough to consider him the most dominant player at this moment after these facts... I'd have to say you're just fighting out of pride and stupidity, and nothing else. Also, if I wasn't taking a crap out of my ass, where would I take it out of? You idiot. Out of your anus of course, and yes progamers do have weak matchups. Past events matter because it can tell us about player performance. I already stated that he disn't beat Bisu in a domineering fashion. The chances are not zero, players have won consistently without facing a certain matchup. Most of the players that he faced were not concentrating the matchup or were slumping heavily. July and luxury beat Jaedong, and I don't think he is as dominant as you make him out to be, and just look at his one game vs sheis. Face it, he still has to prove that he is a Savior.
Look through all of my posts and find one place where I say he is bonjwa or comparable to Savior. As far as I recall, I never said either of those things. I said he is the most dominant player right now - that doesn't mean he is bonjwa-oov-80+%-win scary. The fact that he is the most dominant is just that - a fact. He's not eons ahead of Bisu, but he is definitely above him right now, at least. And that's all I've been saying.
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EPT
