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Calgary25980 Posts
How do you lose to Speedlings as Protoss? I don't even see how it's possible.
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Take it as a sign that you need to brush up on your scouting, ramp micro, or FE defense. Your opponents are probably seeing weaknesses in your game and capitalizing on them. Adapt.
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On December 27 2007 13:44 Chill wrote:
How do you lose to Speedlings as Protoss? I don't even see how it's possible.
If pros lose to it, how shouldn't I? -_-
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Rebuttal: I'm sick of proxy 9/9 gate. I know all you noob Protoss users think you're all man-toss and shit, but at least try the bisu build. How dare you take advantage of the fact that I 12 hatch 90% of the time and have crappy ling micro?! I hope you die of AIDs, you buncha infected cum bubbles! Rawr!
Seriously, though... its so hard to get speedling rushes vs toss to work on most maps. Most people don't have pro-ling micro. Keep practicing using probes for defense while your cannons warp in and you'll start thanking people for using fast speedlings (if you're gate first, block your ramp). It's almost giving a game away to go 9pool speedling vs toss.
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On December 27 2007 13:50 Polemarch wrote:
Take it as a sign that you need to brush up on your scouting, ramp micro, or FE defense. Your opponents are probably seeing weaknesses in your game and capitalizing on them. Adapt.
The scouting is almost impossible. If I screw up probe micro, and he kills my scout, he'll put two lings on his ramp to prevent me from scouting anything. Sair timing comes RIGHT after he's sent his lings, so it's already too late. Sure, I can develop my intrinsic senses, but...
But yeah, it's still lame.
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I know how you feel =_=
I just wonder how all pro toss players even manage to play that stuff, kinda pisses you off
I could say so many thins about how its so hard for protoss to manage against zerg, but im too lazy to work my head right now
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On December 27 2007 14:01 Tadzio00 wrote:
Rebuttal: I'm sick of proxy 9/9 gate. I know all you noob Protoss users think you're all man-toss and shit, but at least try the bisu build. How dare you take advantage of the fact that I 12 hatch 90% of the time and have crappy ling micro?! I hope you die of AIDs, you buncha infected cum bubbles! Rawr!
Seriously, though... its so hard to get speedling rushes vs toss to work on most maps. Keep practicing and you'll start thanking people for using them. It's almost giving a game away to go 9pool speedling vs toss.
I'm talking more about the 3 hatch speedling strat. But whatever.
Honestly, I've never used 9/9 in my life. 9/10, in my base... probably 3 times in my entire BW career.
I've never used 9/9 in my base, let alone proxy it.
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I know what you mean. I played in an ICCup tournament once and I was matched up against a korean. I absolutely fucking knew this guy was going cheese and I made sure by scouting a lot. I did manage to see him going 3hatch speedlings, so I made 5 cannons and put a bunch of zealots around and made a shield battery also. Right when my sair comes out, all his fucking speedlings charge in. I was freaking out cause his lings did absolutely nothing and he pretty much lost everything and retreated.
I didn't know what to do afterwards, though. I knew I was in a huge advantage, I just didn't know what to do :X
Shitty speedling rushes embarrass you in 1v1 play/obs games XD
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On December 27 2007 14:04 Seraphim wrote:
I'm talking more about the 3 hatch speedling strat. But whatever.
are you FEing? I've lost more games than I've won with 3 hat speedling. I'm no expert, but I know what stops me. keep a probe alive somewhere near his base. If your 1st probe lives long enough to see him take drones off his gas, that's a good first clue. If you scout it, add a cannon or two and try your heart out to get an archon. Screw rushing corsair. If you don't scout it, keep a probe outside his choke and try to spot his ling count and/or see when they move out. Use building placement to protect your cannons. and use zealots to block off your choke, with cannon support, even if he breaks through you may be able to use probes to end the all-in.
and you might want to try proxy 9/9 sometime. I dunno what quality players you play against, but it works vs me with depressing frequency.
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I'd like to know how you lose to it as well. What build are you using and I can tell you how to counter it. Honestly if they do speedling rush vs anything but a FE build, they are completely fucked.
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On December 27 2007 14:16 Tadzio00 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2007 14:04 Seraphim wrote:
I'm talking more about the 3 hatch speedling strat. But whatever.
are you FEing? I've lost more games than I've won with 3 hat speedling. I'm no expert, but I know what stops me. keep a probe alive somewhere near his base. If your 1st probe lives long enough to see him take drones off his gas, that's a good first clue. If you scout it, add a cannon or two and try your heart out to get an archon. Screw rushing corsair. If you don't scout it, keep a probe outside his choke and try to spot his ling count and/or see when they move out. Use building placement to protect your cannons. and use zealots to block off your choke, with cannon support, even if he breaks through you may be able to use probes to end the all-in. and you might want to try proxy 9/9 sometime. I dunno what quality players you play against, but it works vs me with depressing frequency.
I use buildings to protect cannons, but for some reason it doesn't work. The probe outside choke is way too late. He'll be moving out with the lings to my base and even if I build cannons, it won't complete in time. I rarely build zealots, except one or two, which not at all help against the rush.
I FE every game by the way.
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And it's not like I know EXACTLY that they're using the build.
If I build two cannons aimlessly to protect myself, I'd be so far behind T_T
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There's a lot of reasons why PvZ is gay, but speedling isn't really one of them.
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FEing is choosing to sacrifice early protection/aggression for later economic advantage.
Imho, your opponent can and should capitalize on that, as not doing so, given the opportunity, would most likely be putting them at a disadvantage.
Sorry if that came off condescending or w/e, just offering my 2 cents.
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On December 27 2007 14:45 Lemonwalrus wrote:
FEing is choosing to sacrifice early protection/aggression for later economic advantage.
Imho, your opponent can and should capitalize on that, as not doing so, given the opportunity, would most likely be putting them at a disadvantage.
Sorry if that came off condescending or w/e, just offering my 2 cents.
Doing another strategy other than speedlings wouldn't put them at a disadvantage T_T
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I meant letting you keep your FE as opposed to hitting you while you were expanding, and therefore at your weakest, militarily speaking.
Either way, you are entitled to your right to rant, and I will stop encroaching on that right. 
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Ok it seems that your problem lies in the adding 1 extra cannon is a bad thing. 150 minerals isn't going to put you THAT far behind. Your doing a FE so you will be able to obtain an early third as well. KEEP THAT PROBE ALIVE, that is the most important part in PvZ if you see more than 6 lings built or him blocking the ramp add a cannon and please at least get 3 zeals and learn to micro the probes.
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On December 27 2007 14:59 HellAngel wrote:
Ok it seems that your problem lies in the adding 1 extra cannon is a bad thing. 150 minerals isn't going to put you THAT far behind. Your doing a FE so you will be able to obtain an early third as well. KEEP THAT PROBE ALIVE, that is the most important part in PvZ if you see more than 6 lings built or him blocking the ramp add a cannon and please at least get 3 zeals and learn to micro the probes.
3 zealots and 2 cannons for nothing will put you way behind no matter how you put it. He can put two lings at his ramp, even with my probe alive. and chase my probe with 4 lings.
Early third? Are you kidding me?
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Scout first, if going oldschool building shits in base, 1 gateway with fast forge + cannon follow up 1+ zlot.
If going newschool building shits outside base, 1 forge 2 cannon asap, use 4 probe to block entrance, 1 gateway before cannons for more blockage.
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god shut the fuck up. you are not entitled to an UNTOUCHED fast expand. just like protoss can 2 gate rush to pressure a zerg for 12 hatching at nat, a zerg can make speedlings to pressure a toss for fast expanding.
i thought the days of whiny protoss players were over. protoss is SO strong vs zerg right now.
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I hate playing zvp more than pvz lately. Corsairs EVERYWHERE!!!! 12 REAVERS RUN!!!
haha people cheese alot on bnet as much as iccup maybe even more. Out of 5 games of iccup i got 5 pooled, dted, and reavered twice in 4 games. Didnt lose because of it though but it gets on your nerves. Only had a one straight up game so far. 3-2 right now. I like go 2 fact vult in all my tvp games now haha and 2 rax double or 2 rax aca double.
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Hahaha you're pissed because it owns FE
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On December 27 2007 14:38 Seraphim wrote:
And it's not like I know EXACTLY that they're using the build.
If I build two cannons aimlessly to protect myself, I'd be so far behind T_T
You can easily spend the extra 300 minerals "aimlessly" especially if they didn't take their 3rd base, this is just the price you pay for shitty scouting. 300 minerals is much better than getting beat 5 times straight to the same thing. Since you said you dont make zeals then you need those cannons because you are rush teching. Ofcourse you're going to lose if you skip defense, army and rush tech. Sairs are a very very good way of slowing a Zerg down and letting you catch up.
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On December 27 2007 15:48 YoUr_KiLLeR wrote:
god shut the fuck up. you are not entitled to an UNTOUCHED fast expand. just like protoss can 2 gate rush to pressure a zerg for 12 hatching at nat, a zerg can make speedlings to pressure a toss for fast expanding.
i thought the days of whiny protoss players were over. protoss is SO strong vs zerg right now.
Jesus Christ...just cause Bisu owns all the zergs in world doesn't mean PvZ has become incredibly easy. T_T
Of course I know it's my own skill deficiency that causes me these problems, but aren't I allowed to vent my frustration once in a while like everybody else? -__-
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Ok, seriously...if I really wanted help, I would've put this in the strategy forum.
Not that I don't appreciate the helpful comments, but that's not what this blog's intent is.
Even if I successfully defend against the zerg, I would still be frustrated due to the fact that he even did the strategy. Just really annoys me.
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its because 3 hatch ling < FE, if you cant defend it, then dont play. You're obviously doing a build b/c you saw how to do it, and copying. If you dont know the variations, and different lines of play to defend the zerg openings, then dont play. Its probably a skill issue, since ive defeated you with my zerg multiple times, and i dont even play zerg.
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Scout. Use probes to block cracks between buildings/cannons. Scout. If you need to bring 6-8 probes to block if lings come really early. Scout.
PS: Scout, you wont die if you scout relentlessly.
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Don't FE on maps you can't block completely, when you do FE get however many zealots/probes needed and BLOCK FFS. Also scout
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Lumberjack, get the fuck out of my blog.
Don't even start talking about people's off-races owning people's main. Need I mention OneOther's terran 36-0'ed your main?
Yeah.
Gtfo and stfu.
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I think people are confused with 9 pool speedling and 3 hatch speedling 
Oh well.
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
On December 27 2007 17:20 LumberJack wrote:
its because 3 hatch ling < FE, if you cant defend it, then dont play. You're obviously doing a build b/c you saw how to do it, and copying. If you dont know the variations, and different lines of play to defend the zerg openings, then dont play. Its probably a skill issue, since ive defeated you with my zerg multiple times, and i dont even play zerg.
You sound like a fucked-up little girl. Seriously, fuck you.
EDIT: Sera, we can do speedling all-in training like tonight (starting from 00.00 GMT).
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just learn to defend it... ~~
if you do, your opponent will be the annoyed one
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Sorry if your blog is intended towards me. I did speedling rush you once and I snuck 8 lings around your cannons. I can help you defend this if you want. Also, the builds I used against you do not put me at much of a disadvantage, especially if I get through. I can teach you how to understand when this build is coming and what to do in response. You can always ask me what to do in certain situations and I'll gladly help you.
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
There's an alternative FE mechanism btw. You start with a forge regardless of scouting info. If you scout 12 pool, forge/nexus. For BOTH 12 hatch and 9 pool (and in case you don't find the zerg), forge/gate, cannon/zealot rush and FE vs the first and the latter, respectively.
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On December 27 2007 16:22 Quesadilla wrote:
Hahaha you're pissed because it owns FE
No. He's pissed that he might have to "aimlessly put 2 cannons down" [sic] to defend himself against it, in a FE. Fucking laughable.
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8748 Posts
LOL I get pissed too if it makes you feel any better. But I get pissed cuz I miss the opportunity to kill the Zerg shit in a more creative way! Lings crashing against my Protoss fortress is boring zzzz
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Snet
United States3573 Posts
blocking your ramp helps against ling rushes 
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On December 27 2007 18:23 Seraphim wrote:
Lumberjack, get the fuck out of my blog.
Don't even start talking about people's off-races owning people's main. Need I mention OneOther's terran 36-0'ed your main?
Yeah.
Gtfo and stfu.
its actually 1-3, but thanks for lying about it again : ) Maybe ill host our games sometime? Cause i actually have the replays ;P
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I'm pretty sure that you're not helping the situation LumberJack :p
Sera, if it makes you feel any better, just know that once you've defended the rush the Zerg is so fucked it's not even funny. Hell, I think this build has only worked once for me in all of my ZvP matches
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Guys, don't mind Lumberjack. He's just an asshole that likes to troll these forums. I have no idea why he's not banned ~_~
Thanks guys, but my anger is out now. Thanks for letting me vent ^^
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fanatacist, how many PvZ's do you win?
Oh and Lumberjack. At least I don't hack you fucking noob. Stop thinking you're gosu shit cause you're not.
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I lay down an extra cannon if I see anymore than 6 lings. And I win a majority of my PvZ's at my level.
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so you lie about records, you falsely accuse me of hacking, and yet im the troll? How does that work? You're the one crying about 3 hatch ling when you only want to make 1 cannon, and im the bm idiot? Wow, look in the mirror kid, seriously
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3 hatch lings is actually a good counter to bisu build because it comes at just the right timing, right as the sair pops out. The moral of the story is, if you're going to FE, be ready for the consequences. This applies to everybody.
I think after watching Oversky > Bisu, people started speedling rushing.
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
On December 29 2007 08:00 LumberJack wrote:
so you lie about records, you falsely accuse me of hacking, and yet im the troll? How does that work? You're the one crying about 3 hatch ling when you only want to make 1 cannon, and im the bm idiot? Wow, look in the mirror kid, seriously
Yes you are. Get the fuck out please.
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On December 29 2007 08:00 LumberJack wrote:
so you lie about records, you falsely accuse me of hacking, and yet im the troll? How does that work? You're the one crying about 3 hatch ling when you only want to make 1 cannon, and im the bm idiot? Wow, look in the mirror kid, seriously
Wow, at least I'm not 35 years old and PMSing over a video game. Get a life you retard.
Nice job making an ass out of yourself, though.
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im 26? and how am i coming out to be an ass? Because i tell the truth? I dont lie about records or hack? is that why i'm an ass? sweet, ill take it. thanks yo~
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Lumberjack, keep in mind that every person on this site hates you. Have fun fag.
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I'm mad about this too. PvZ was my best MU on iccup, I was like 9-1 and my last few games i've died to all-in ling crap.
Then one game I 10/12 gated on gaia saw his 9 pool, and just walled up and teched. He comes at me with some 3 hatch ling all in ramp break and accuses m of map hack because I have 6 zlots...
He was incredulous that he gay shit got foiled... lol
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On December 29 2007 17:37 Seraphim wrote:
Lumberjack, keep in mind that every person on this site hates you. Have fun fag.
Wow, I just skimmed through this thread and you sound pretty sad.
What's with all the poisonous hate?
On December 27 2007 13:50 Polemarch wrote:
Take it as a sign that you need to brush up on your scouting, ramp micro, or FE defense. Your opponents are probably seeing weaknesses in your game and capitalizing on them. Adapt.
All there is to say about the OP.
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United States10774 Posts
On December 28 2007 02:55 LumberJack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2007 18:23 Seraphim wrote:
Lumberjack, get the fuck out of my blog.
Don't even start talking about people's off-races owning people's main. Need I mention OneOther's terran 36-0'ed your main?
Yeah.
Gtfo and stfu. its actually 1-3, but thanks for lying about it again : ) Maybe ill host our games sometime? Cause i actually have the replays ;P
LumberJack you have never beaten my Terran
post rep , but you dont have it.
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United States10774 Posts
On December 29 2007 08:00 LumberJack wrote:
so you lie about records, you falsely accuse me of hacking, and yet im the troll? How does that work? You're the one crying about 3 hatch ling when you only want to make 1 cannon, and im the bm idiot? Wow, look in the mirror kid, seriously
oh the irony
lying about records? lol?
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On December 27 2007 14:37 Seraphim wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2007 14:16 Tadzio00 wrote:On December 27 2007 14:04 Seraphim wrote:
I'm talking more about the 3 hatch speedling strat. But whatever.
are you FEing? I've lost more games than I've won with 3 hat speedling. I'm no expert, but I know what stops me. keep a probe alive somewhere near his base. If your 1st probe lives long enough to see him take drones off his gas, that's a good first clue. If you scout it, add a cannon or two and try your heart out to get an archon. Screw rushing corsair. If you don't scout it, keep a probe outside his choke and try to spot his ling count and/or see when they move out. Use building placement to protect your cannons. and use zealots to block off your choke, with cannon support, even if he breaks through you may be able to use probes to end the all-in. and you might want to try proxy 9/9 sometime. I dunno what quality players you play against, but it works vs me with depressing frequency. I use buildings to protect cannons, but for some reason it doesn't work. The probe outside choke is way too late. He'll be moving out with the lings to my base and even if I build cannons, it won't complete in time. I rarely build zealots, except one or two, which not at all help against the rush. I FE every game by the way.
noyadont ^_^
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United States10774 Posts
PS
karma we will work on this together hardcore.
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On December 30 2007 17:27 Saracen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2007 14:37 Seraphim wrote:On December 27 2007 14:16 Tadzio00 wrote:On December 27 2007 14:04 Seraphim wrote:
I'm talking more about the 3 hatch speedling strat. But whatever.
are you FEing? I've lost more games than I've won with 3 hat speedling. I'm no expert, but I know what stops me. keep a probe alive somewhere near his base. If your 1st probe lives long enough to see him take drones off his gas, that's a good first clue. If you scout it, add a cannon or two and try your heart out to get an archon. Screw rushing corsair. If you don't scout it, keep a probe outside his choke and try to spot his ling count and/or see when they move out. Use building placement to protect your cannons. and use zealots to block off your choke, with cannon support, even if he breaks through you may be able to use probes to end the all-in. and you might want to try proxy 9/9 sometime. I dunno what quality players you play against, but it works vs me with depressing frequency. I use buildings to protect cannons, but for some reason it doesn't work. The probe outside choke is way too late. He'll be moving out with the lings to my base and even if I build cannons, it won't complete in time. I rarely build zealots, except one or two, which not at all help against the rush. I FE every game by the way. noyadont ^_^
LOL
basically, before our game I played a million PvTs so I somehow thought it was PvT, and I realized just in time "OH PVZ CRAP"
So I could change my build to a 2 gate:/ I would've FE'ed if I remembered
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For the most part i agree with u, so many stupid noobs just play one mu and do the same strat every fucking game. Who the fuck does fuckint 5 pools biggest waste of fucking time for the player playing it who the fuck cares if u win with it and if u lose with it who gives a shit either waste of time. Stupid noob cheesers need to go to hell.
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Toss users that complain about cheese... ahahahaha
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United States22883 Posts
On January 05 2008 13:42 Mindcrime wrote:
Toss users that complain about cheese... ahahahaha Lol. Every time I try and warm up on bnet before iccup, I get fast 2gate/bunker rushed by these idiots who care 10x more about their record than actually getting good at the game, even when it's 100% clear I spotted the cheese ahead of time.
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I just found this while looking at a thread linked in a current thread
On December 23 2006 10:49 Seraphim wrote:
haha, i dont' FE much at all in PvZ ^^
1gate tech ftw
lulz!
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im really sad that i read every post on this thread...anyways you need 2 cannons not just 1 about 90% of the time PvZ + your building spots probably arent right...but w/e just takes practice, but after awhile you'll be begging to get 3 hatch ling all-inned cuz its pretty much an instant win for protoss
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Surprised no one has asked for the obligatory rep yet.
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EPT
