• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:11
CEST 10:11
KST 17:11
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
Rollback Netcode in Brood War435.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202621Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup10StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)78
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 2026 [Old] StarCraft 3 Reportedly in Development StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026) How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)
Tourneys
ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 546 Catch the Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble
Brood War
General
Rollback Netcode in Brood War [ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror TL Sidebar missing streams Bot on ladder Repalyzer - replay analysis app for StarCraft: Rem
Tourneys
[ASL22] Semifinal A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Semifinal B [ASL22] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Escaping Into Video Games: G…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9627 users

Returning to Starcraft. Balance Soviet.

Blogs > -_-
Post a Reply
-_-
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States7081 Posts
September 15 2023 06:30 GMT
#1
After a break of many years, I've started playing and watching Starcraft 2 again. I'm surprised how much joy it still gives me. It truly remains my favorite hobby.

The procedure for balancing the game now came to me as quite the shock. I felt the need to write down a few thoughts about it.

First, I've seen Harstem, Catz, and others draw attention to the fact that those participating are not paid. I do not feel this is an effective rhetorical move. If you were not participating, and volunteers materially damaged the game, would you care that those causing harm were not paid? And, if participating in the Council does not add benefit to your life, can you not simply stop?

Second, while I don't disagree that certain changes affect professional play more drastically, I think some comments, specifically regarding the Viper, are overstated. A professional never lets a Viper kill his buildings because he pays attention to it. If less attention needs to be paid, the professional will be direct that surplus elsewhere. I.e., it is a slight buff to professional Zergs. And more generally, I do not believe pros are "playing a different game" than those in lower leagues.

Third, I feel like some commentators are unnecessarily harsh about the state Blizzard left the game in when development ended. I am watching those games now. People certainly were complaining, e.g., about Void Rays. But I'm watching those games now. It was most certainly not a disaster. Demeaning a prior version of the game doesn't make this version any better.

A few minor thoughts on the current changes: The Immortal change is quite elegant.

I am somewhat worried about the strength of late-game Zerg versus Protoss. Fundamentally, because of Zerg's inherent map control (creep, overlords, mobility) vis-a-vis Protoss, I think a Protoss late-game army must be able to trade at better than even against Zerg's. If Protoss can't, Zerg players leverage the fact that they "lead the dance" in ZVP and stall. Alternatively, Protoss will need to have two- and three-base timing that win 50% of the time even when scouted. I actually think the current changes--Lurker nerf; Infestor late-game "nerf"; Tempest acceleration buff-- may solve this. And, further, I think Protoss players can utilize mass shield batteries and cannons more effectively.

...Perhaps my age is showing, though? I left during the Brood Lord-Infestor Era. I fear that again.

I think the EMP radius nerf is too drastic. TVP strikes me as being in a good state.

I think the Council has taken the right tact on Widow Mines. I hope the visibility change can be made good--I've read that it is not working as intended. Also, I do wonder if the cracked earth effect can be enhanced. Or perhaps map makers can choose a tileset which makes it stand out?

Overall, I am pleased. Long live Starcraft 2!

***
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19393 Posts
September 15 2023 18:13 GMT
#2
The game is fantastic and if you come back to it now, you'd see no problems. But if you've lived and casted the balance issues for the past 5-7 years, you'd get to a point where you are bitter with the way certain things were left. I think that's where the commentary is coming from.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27463 Posts
September 17 2023 00:32 GMT
#3
Yeah I think the stare of the game is better than people give credit. Tbh it seems to be a trend on most games I see where really regular players are never fully satisfied, there’s always one more change to be made, or some nostalgic era that never really was as good as the goggles hint at

Taking a step back and returning, especially a long one and it really does hit how much the game has generally changed for the better

Happy hunting!
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
TL+ Member
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17743 Posts
September 20 2023 18:29 GMT
#4
This is off topic but I think you have the best username
ils
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
Greatablemen
Profile Joined September 2023
2 Posts
September 21 2023 06:40 GMT
#5
--- Nuked ---
-_-
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States7081 Posts
September 21 2023 21:38 GMT
#6
On September 21 2023 03:29 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
This is off topic but I think you have the best username


Hah! You're not wrong. Got in pretty close to the ground floor back in '03!
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 49m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Free 1269
BeSt 305
Soulkey 245
Soma 223
sorry 141
Mind 67
Larva 35
Bale 26
soO 19
ZerO 18
[ Show more ]
ajuk12(nOOB) 17
scan(afreeca) 8
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm191
League of Legends
JimRising 595
Counter-Strike
edward94
Other Games
summit1g9077
Coldzera 687
WinterStarcraft675
C9.Mang0248
Sick211
singsing35
ZerO(Twitch)3
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick711
BasetradeTV215
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 12
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2221
League of Legends
• Jankos770
Upcoming Events
Big Brain Bouts
1h 49m
Rex vs INexorable
GgMaChine vs HeRoMaRinE
Reynor vs herO
Online Event
3h 49m
AI Arena Tournament
8h 49m
BSL: Ladder Tournament
10h 49m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 1h
Patches Events
1d 6h
BSL Open Qualifier
1d 10h
BSL Open Qualifier
1d 10h
OSC
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
[ Show More ]
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
The PondCast
5 days
Online Event
6 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Rush vs Soulkey
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
HCC Season 3
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.