|
(As this is an Internet forum, I probably won't take many replies here seriously, but if you do have a serious opinion, I'd love to hear it)
So I have a couple of competing job offers. They are both pretty large companies and I'd be happy at either. But I'd probably be more happy at company A. I like A's location better and the work will be fun, but company B has offered me a pretty nice position too. (I'd start out as a grunt at either of them, but B has offered me a position in a group that directly relates to the research I've been doing for a couple years and love doing... company A gave me one in a group I kinda like but not as much as B).
Both companies A and B have given me decent offers and they are about comparable. My goal is really to leverage these offers so I can negotiate a better salary with A. This is where I currently stand, and I'm wondering what's the best way to approach this.
Here's the full story in chronological order.
1. Company A gives me an OK offer with a group I only sorta-like.
2. Company B gives me an OK offer with a group I only sorta-like.
3. I try to negotiate with A, saying the cost of living is lower at B's location and thus that offer looks better to me. But company A doesn't budge, saying that the offers are still comparable.
4. Company B's principal research scientist e-mails me inviting me to chat with their group, which is the group I'd be really happy in.
5. I want to leverage this to get A to increase my salary.
I think I have two options:
1. Tell company A that I like B better. Hopefully they'll increase the salary offer, and if not, I will end up going to B. Overall happiness: 8/10.
2. Tell company B that I like A better.
a. If B raises their salary, I tell A about it and try to get them to match. If they match, I go to A. Overall happiness: 10/10
b. If B doesn't raise their salary, go to A. Overall happiness: 7/10.
3. Post on TL.net and do exactly what the first reply says. Overall happiness: probably -9000/10.
Ideas?
|
Your probably going to loose both offers if you try to fuck them over, just make a decision. If you are really hard worker they'll give you a raise after you have showed them your skills.
|
It totally depends on a bunch of information we don't have. You have to judge how the situation feels to you based on your interaction with the people you're negotiating with. Maybe you saying "well I like B better, what do you have to offer" will make them up the salary, maybe it will make them withdraw their offer. This will depend on a bunch of things like how much you've negotiated so far, how patient they are with negotiations, what other options they have, how much they want you, etc. You can probably gauge all of these things.
Without any of this information, there are still a couple things to point out: if going to B with no change in salary would be an 8/10 and going to A with no change in salary would be a 7/10, then that means you'd be happier going to B if things stay the same, right? In that case, use A to get leverage on B, but confusingly, this is the opposite of what you said (you would rather go to A).
Also, keep in mind that you already tried to get A to raise their offer and they didn't. If you do like A more, it makes sense to go for it in getting B to up your salary, because that seems like the only way that A will make a better offer.
I guess I would say that the best scenario would be to have an honest conversation with one or both of them. If you can, tell A how you're feeling; let them know that you've bonded with the B group and that your interests are more there, but that you like A better as a company. Maybe they will tell you that there's a chance you can change groups after a while, or maybe they can just move your group flat out. Who knows. Just be careful you don't end up over negotiating and losing both jobs.
|
Some companies have more bargaining room on signing bonuses, so that's something else to consider. Generally salaries aren't that flexible (at least in my experience) but the HR departments usually have a budget for bonuses.
|
If they're big companies I don't think they will have that much leverage as they can always find someone else to hire pretty easily
|
|
|
|
|
Ok. Suppose (hypothetically) that A is Google and B is Microsoft. Would your opinions change?
|
|
|
On October 23 2007 10:10 jjl wrote:
Ok. Suppose (hypothetically) that A is Google and B is Microsoft. Would your opinions change?
Then I'd have your babies.
|
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
well some people can't appreciate the sort of relation between you and your potential employers. they could see the situation from the perspective of a peasant or slave, or a student used to wage labor.
|
You give a lot of variables, so it's kinda hard. It depends on the company's position and yours.
For example: I work with my dad in a small business (4 people f/t including me and him). Our designer left and we needed another asap. We had a guy come in and asked for a kind of high offer and we weren't sure what to do, since we were in a pinch (we really needed a designer). The guy calls back two days later and told us that he had another offer on, but liked ours better, but needed a job asap. My dad (without talking to me or my mother, who are *technically* supposed to have input on hirings) takes the guy on basically out of need.
However, big companies are different. Idk how big these two are, but if theyre anything similar to google or ms, your negotiating will be limited. Esp since you say youre doing grunt work and not anything in real high demand, they'd be able to go get another guy easily.
Another factor is your age and your responsibilities now. If you're just outta college and living at home, your expenses are probably minimal. If you don't ***need*** a job asap (basically, you don't have to cover rent, car insurance, etc in the next few weeks) that helps you with leverage. You can try negotiating the best deal wihtout worrying you need cash immediately. And if neither leave you that happy, fuck them both and start looking again.
And it boils down to the other little variables... your salary offer (compared to others in the area), cost of living in the area, if you like what youre doing & who youre workin with. From what you said, if you really like B, that's probably the area you wanna go in. IDK about you, but if i really like what Im doing, i dont need to be making tons of money. Enough to pay bills, some to go out and im happy. As long as there's the promise of growth, I think that may be the better deal.
anyway, hope i helped.
|
Ok, so after thinking about this I have reduced the decision down to the following:
1. I can go to Microsoft and take my dream job working with world-class researchers. But I have to do my work using Windows.
2. I can go to Google in my preferred geographic location, working on a really-cool job, and not be bound to WIndows.
I hate Windows. And I'm afraid of having to do dev work using Vista... euugh. But I feel that making a decision about what job to take based on OS is kinda stupid and superficial. If one of them offered me, say, $10k more than the other, I'd likely go to that one (also a superficial decision, but a least a little sensible).
New plan:
Tentatively take the MS job
Tell Google. If they don't raise their offer, fine, gg Google.
If they do offer me more, tell MS and see what they do. If MS does not raise, go to Google. If they do, go to MS.
Just got off the phone with MS's principal scientist. They offered to fly me in for a visit this weekend, so we'll see how that goes.
|
If its down to Microsoft and Google, I'd check out the work environment before making a decision. If you'd be less stressed working at Google, take the Google job. I'd personally try to go and check out both places before making a decision. It isn't always all about the benjamins, but don't forget to figure out cost of living too.
|
Snet
United States3573 Posts
Go with google man, sounds like your quality of life will be loads better.
|
Oops I guess I never posted what happened. In short, the negotiation didn't go too well because I got greedy. I asked for a salary increase from Google and they instead offered a signing bonus. I asked how much, and it was a reasonable amount. But I went for the gold and asked for a base salary increase, and they said they'd get back to me in a couple days. When they called me back a few days later they said they couldn't offer the base salary increase. So I asked about the signing bonus, and they said no to that too. I guess I should have just taken the signing bonus the first time. Similarly, MS did not budge (didn't even offer a signing bonus to start with). So I ended up picking Google. (this was all like 6 months ago so I'm missing a lot of details)
The lesson here is that big companies generally don't change their base salary; they offer the same thing to everyone, unless you're a super gosu or something I guess. They can probably afford to do this due to the sheer number of people who apply and the large number of really good candidates they get.
I suppose it's nothing really to be worried about, as raises are determined by your skill, so if I really am worth the base salary increases, I'll see it at my first performance review.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
