• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:54
CEST 20:54
KST 03:54
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3
Community News
New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!31Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week5Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles2GSTL Returns in 2026!45Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7
StarCraft 2
General
SC4ALL II: SC2 Player Announcement 6/8 - Maru How would you feel about frequent/monthly balance patches for SC2? Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week Starcraft2 player guess game is Coming~!
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Announcement IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) WORTEX 2026 - Hungarian SC2 Finals Budapest
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 540 Dodge This The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome Mutation # 538 Media Blackout
Brood War
General
Pros React To: Calm's Big Brain Play Vs Mini !!!NEW BUG!!! FIRE ARCHONS [Visual] BW General Discussion New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery! [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro24 Group F [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament - Season 3 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Game Theory for Starcraft Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Violent Games and Crime Rate…
TrAiDoS
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9437 users

Starcraft School

Blogs > Tadzio00
Post a Reply
Tadzio
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
3340 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-06-13 12:07:15
June 13 2007 12:05 GMT
#1
The Starcraft School (click for link) appears to be dead, and I think that's unfortunate. Please go there, sign up, and help revive it if you share my opinion that its a worthy idea.

I put 4 replays up for critique at the Starcraft School, and I'm not confident I'll get any feedback there, so I'll mirror the post here and hope for the best:

+ Show Spoiler +

I'm going to post the most recent losses I've had in each Zerg matchup. Please lend advice on just about everything you notice... map strategy, general strategy, build orders, mechanics tips, ideas on securing expos, thoughts on dealing with harass, techniques for improving macro production, etc. Pretty much every aspect of my game needs work. Help!

ZvP Reverse Temple
ZvT Fantasy
ZvZ Neo The Lost Temple
ZvR Neo The Lost Temple

Thanks for everything!


Be as honest as you want and constructive if possible. I'd love to see some of my weaknesses addressed in the strategy forum if anyone thinks it'd help the community in general-- and it hasn't been appropriately covered in the recommended threads.

****
stenole
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
Norway869 Posts
June 13 2007 18:28 GMT
#2
I've always found it hard to give good critisism just from looking at replays. Because it's hard to know what the person is actually doing. You just see the action on the screen, you don't see what the player is doing on his keyboard. And you don't see what goes on in his head. I think it's important to get the player's thoughts about the game as well as the replays at the very least. The more detailed, the better.

For one thing it lets the helper figure out if the problem is a wrong reaction or it's you not realizing things about his strategy when you scout. It also lets him know the setting of the game, like for instance was this a game in a series of games where you had been bunker rushed every game so far. And it lets him evaluate your gamesense. At many points of the games you will do things that break with good strategic common sense because you are behind, and you want to cut corners to get back in a good position. It's easier to give advice if you state when this was the case. The least you can do is give your own analysis of the games before you want someone else to.
Tadzio
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
3340 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-06-14 00:48:34
June 14 2007 00:42 GMT
#3
Um, okay.

The ZvP was a practice game and my first game vs Cow[farm]. I lose a lot, but I've really been struggling vs protoss that FE. I asked Cow[farm] if he could give me some ideas and he showed me a game that gave an idea of how to lurker contain protoss. Then we had a game so I could try to accomplish it. I did 9pool expo as my opening to see if I could botch his expo, but he pulled probes to defend and I don't think I reacted correctly-- I lost most of my lings. Then I moved into 3 hatch. I didn't put my 3rd hatch at my mineral only because: 1) I'm not confident vs 7 minute zealot rush, and 2) Reverse Temple's natural seems to beg for 2 hatcheries for efficient gas/mineral mining. I'm not sure I made the right choice, but I doubt it affected the outcome of this particular game. I decided to go hydralisk den first because I was planning on lurker contain. I expo'd to 12 oclock because I felt my lurker contain was set up okay (although I'd burrowed too close to his photon cannons and lost 1-2 lurkers I shouldn't have) and I felt I was behind in macro as I usually am vs FE toss. I was unprepared for his dropping my main with DT, and after he took out all my drones I typed GG.

The ZvT was my first game vs eriadorable and my first game on Fantasy. I used a 12/11 3hatch opening because I usually do vs terran. I didn't quite know the layout of the map, so my expo was a little late, and my first lings didn't find the terran's ramp right away. When they did find the terran's ramp, 4 out of 6 died. I positioned the other two where I thought he'd walk to get to my natural. Meanwhile his scouting SCV killed one of my drones. I was careless and didn't notice the offense til it was too late. Next eriadorable moved out. I set up my sunkens and began teching to lurker. He ran past my sunkens and up a ramp and this is when I realized my natural had a backdoor. I tested his group of mmf with what lings I had but had to retreat, and then had to run my drones away. I built up as many lings as I could and tried to put down a sunken hoping to set up some pathetic defense. He walked through my nat's backdoor and knocked on my lings, which sent them running after the clumped marines. I desperately attempted to micro a surround, but medics got in the way and I didn't think of retreat as an option until after my lings were dead. From there he ran up my main's ramp and so I moved my drones to my nat, since it was protected a bit by sunkens. The game was already over, though, and I typed GG.

The ZvZ was vs an opponent I play often, Pwntrucci[sR], but never in this matchup. I did a pretty standard 9pool 11 hatch in main build and did some scouting. He had a sunken in his mineral line, so I didn't even attempt to kill any drones right away. He got lair much quicker than I did, so I made a spore colony, but then I noticed that his spire was exposed, and aside from the sunken, fairly undefended. I decided I had enough lings to attempt to kill the spire, and I successfully forced him to cancel it. From here I thought my advantage was huge. But then I forgot an overlord, and my advantage wasn't so huge anymore. With only 2 muta I tried to kill a few drones, but I soon had to back off as his spire completed and he made scourge. At one point I decide I want to try and overwhelm him while I still have an advantage, but his overlord between our two bases catches a glimpse of me running all my units to his base, and he sends all his lings into my main, forcing me to pull back. I lose one of my hatcheries and at this point I know I'm behind. From here I'm just struggling to find a way back into the game, but everything I do just seems to weaken me further, and eventually I type GG.

The ZvR was vs my friend Slained[sR] whom I play pretty regularly. I decided to open with the ZvP 9pool I'd been practicing because I felt it'd be an okay opening vs zerg, and Slained[sR] loves to go 1 rax cc, so I thought I might be able to apply some pressure even though 9pool isn't that great vs terran. Slained[sR] turned out to be terran and my ling rush did decent damage, forcing him to cancel his cc. But I delayed at the top of his ramp so I could make sure I didn't fall behind in macro, and this gave him the opportunity to build a bunker and he survives the rush with minimal damage. Next I move into 3 hatch muta because I need practice with it, but he's prepared and I don't do much with it, losing 3 muta pretty fast. I expand and move my hydra to the expansion for when lurker aspect is ready, but he arrives at my expansion and kills all my hydra before they morph, leaving my expos exposed to whatever sadistic plans he's prepared. Thinking I shouldn't even bother trying to recover from losing all my hydra and 2 expo hatcheries, I type GG.

Hope this satisfies your curiosity.
stenole
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
Norway869 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-06-14 06:11:54
June 14 2007 03:07 GMT
#4
Oh no, I guess this means I have to look at your replays and comment them.

Thoughts on the ZvP game:
Your 9 pool hurt you more than him, I think. Normally I wouldn't want to 9 pool on this map because a forge + canon before nexus will make any run-by action impossible if he sticks a probe in the gap. Also 9 pool is weak vs 2 gate which is very viable on this map. I think you were lucky this game that he chose nexus before forge, because it allowed your lings some freedom. You only made 4 lings though before you went over into drone mode. This time you chose to fly ovie away a little to keep him from knowing your position. It made you not spot the nexus before forge opening. You could have made straight lings if not. I think once you took down the canon you should have pumped lings rallied to his choke. They would have gotten there before the second set of canons were up. And in a situation like you were in it is more important to use those 4 lings to take down the pylon, forge or gateways than to harass the probes until you get more lings in there. It's easier to kill stray probes if he is trying to protect his buildings than it is to catch them by his minerals. A gateway-less forge-less protoss is in big trouble against 3 hatch lings. Not too much I have to say about the rest of the game. Stopping a dt drop like the one that killed you is tricky. It helps camping a lurker and and ovie and maybe a hydra or two to defend the ovie at the time when you think a drop is possible. If he tries to avoid you noticing the attack by going directly for the drones, you might at least hear the lurker spines. Although the game didn't go that far, I think it's a good idea to pull back the lurkers from the lurker contain when you take the 2 north expos and put up a good sunken defense on both your natural and the north natural.

On to the ZvT game:
This was the first time you played on this map, or not far from it. So expect things to not go perfectly. When you end up starting at bottom left, that way around your natural can cause some headache. A possible solution is to make your 1st hatchery in a forward position to better cover that ramp with your first sunks. Your "pathetic defense" with the lings could have killed the marine group with better micro, I think. But they sort of got in each other's way and it went as it went. Oh well...

The ZvZ game:
There are a lot of weird things going on in this game, both from you and your opponent. ZvZ is a matchup that requires a lot of adapting to the other player and it is a matchup that punishes small mistakes. You made a big mistake by moving your scouting overlord away from his main immediately to his choke. It is very helpful to know when he plops down his pool. In this case, he knew when you plopped down yours. And whether he did it on purpose or not, he made a 12 pool vs your 9 pool which technically gives him a slight larva/drone advantage. You didn't see what he was up to till your second overlord got to his base. One thing worth mentioning is that when you 9 pool and don't have scouting information, it's wise to immediately send your lings towards where you think he is as soon as they pop out. If you meet his lings along the way, you will know from where they meet when he put down his pool. Also this keeps him from getting away with a hatch first build. A helpful thing in ZvZ is to make a tight building formation so that sunkens and spores can cover your entire base if you need those. It would have also been helpful in making the hatchery harder to take down. You eventually found out he was going lair with 1 hatchery. And you rightfully made a spore colony to protect yourself. However, you could have waited longer to put down the creep colony. You didn't need it quite as soon as you put it down. With his spire down, and your overlord was there to see that he wasn't making a spore colony, you should send your mutas directly to his base to kill drones. They wasted some time on an overlord. After his ling attack, you ended up not gathering gas for a while. This eventaully made his airforce stronger than yours. I think in general you made a few too many lings. If you get that many, at least get the speedling upgrade for them. There is a lot more that can be said, but I think this is enough for one game.

The final ZvRT game:
You get great value out of your starting lings. But you end up putting down 5 sunkens afterwards which is completely over the top. Putting down 2 were enough, eventually maybe adding a 3rd. Also, I think you'll get a lot out of always having a couple lings in the field for scouting purposes. Having a ling near his natural gives you a good idea of his army size and if he is expoing. And it will also tell you when he is or might be moving out. So you can delay morphing your creep colonies until you really need to. Your larva management could have been better to let you get out 6 mutas the minute the spire was done. It feels like a won game that got away. And maybe you gg'ed a little too soon when he killed your hydras and essentially blocked your expo attempts.
KameZerg
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Sweden1772 Posts
June 15 2007 02:13 GMT
#5
oh blasted, im in desperate need of zerg guidance
asdasdasdasdasd123123123
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RotterdaM Event
16:30
Rotti's PatchesSC Open
RotterdaM935
TKL 228
IndyStarCraft 213
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 935
ByuN 436
TKL 228
IndyStarCraft 213
EnDerr 8
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 21704
Calm 4289
Shuttle 1029
Mini 370
Dewaltoss 119
firebathero 104
Hm[arnc] 12
soO 11
Dota 2
Gorgc4981
qojqva3032
BananaSlamJamma243
League of Legends
KnowMe68
Counter-Strike
fl0m4803
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu394
Other Games
Grubby2642
crisheroes684
Beastyqt674
FrodaN576
XaKoH 495
B2W.Neo398
mouzStarbuck214
Hui .153
C9.Mang0146
ArmadaUGS92
Trikslyr45
QueenE43
Chillindude15
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1474
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 37
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1813
League of Legends
• Jankos1482
• Nemesis1481
• TFBlade782
Other Games
• imaqtpie877
• Shiphtur198
Upcoming Events
The PiG Daily
2h 6m
BASILISK vs TBD
Serral vs Rogue
Korean StarCraft League
7h 6m
GSL
16h 6m
AI Arena Tournament
22h 6m
Replay Cast
1d 5h
WardiTV Weekly
1d 16h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
GSL
3 days
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-27
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
META DYMY #4

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 2
RSL Revival: Season 6
Light Tournament 2026
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

BSL 2026 LAN: Kraków
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Escore Tournament S3: King of Kings
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Calamity Invitational
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.