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TLADT24920 Posts
Required reading:
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/534200-br-legend-of-the-bw-amateurs-pt-1
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/534702-br-legend-of-the-bw-amateurs-pt-2
So, this was it. It was finally time to lay everything on the line and try and close out this series. The score was tied at 1-1!
Game 1 on Sparkle: I managed to overcome my opponent in quite the fun fashion with plenty of drops and air units to seal a rough victory. It was quite the weird game on an island map that neither of us had an experience with.
Game 2 on Third World: It was a back and forth fight. Despite getting off to a great start, map architecture screwed my usual offensive and my attention was split widely between both sides of the map, leading to my opponent eeking out a win.
The upcoming game, game 3 took place on Transistor. It was do or die. The map is quite interesting in the sense that there are three bases with 2 ramps to block instead of the usual one. This means that zergling attacks are that much more effective. Infact, we've seen several games this ASL where zergs like Shine went for this double attack and won so it's definitely potent and something to watch out for.
Without further ado, game 3 folks!
I spawned in the bottom right corner while my devious opponent spawned in the left side base. The early game involved the usual; make workers, get structures at typical times and scout around to find out what my opponent is up to. After two long exhausting games, I decide to have some fun and change things up early on. First stop was a gas block to delay the usual mutalisks that my opponent likes.
Of course, I still allowed him to go for a 3 hatch, too nice for my own good >< I decided to 1 base early on then expand, a safeguard in the case of an early zergling attack. Therefore, I went up to 3 rax near my ramp and parked my army there while I researched stim. Once I managed to make sure of what my opponent was doing by moving out, I can decide on my path in the game though my usual subconscious go-to is bio.
My spidey senses tingling and feeling like my opponent can only play cheesy (his nature after all), I decided to place an SCV close to my northern expansion to spot for any zergling attacks while I moved my army out on the map. The hope was that by the time such an attack comes, I'll have enough on my ramp and my army is already threatening his base. Well, see, this is what happened:
SHIT! Zerglings with speed are ultra fast and my army was halfway across the map! The situation couldn't get any worse. This was probably the part where my APM spiked through the roof as I tried to block my ramp to reduce the incoming damage and recall my army back to my base as fast as I could.
With my economy in tatters, I had to rebuild, however, I also couldn't ignore the possibility that my opponent could've been pumping drones after that attack. In a bad situation with little knowledge of what he was up to, I decided to go out from the back ramp with my paltry forces. Alas, it was already too late as I had to contend with a second wave and didn't have the numbers for it. Feeling like the end was near, I decided to put my magic micro to work one final time, but I've already had the wind knocked out of me by this point.
With the game essentially over, it was finally time to give my opponent a PIECE OF MY MIND! It was obvious that he was afraid of another macro game which is why he decided to cheese! What nerve! Learn to play properly!
YEP, THAT'S ALL BM! FANTASY GG TIMING BM TOO! :D
Don't remember what blh was supposed to stand for at this point. Likely a typo for bad luck game or something...
![]() Minimap of the whole game
FPV: + Show Spoiler +
I ended up forgiving him after the game. We terrans have big hearts ;P
I also pounded him a couple of times on Third World and Circuit Breaker afterwards for payback :D
All said and done, JxN ends up winning the series 2-1 to complete a comeback.
 
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lol, tried to do a 1-base all-in and got punished.
Canada #1 in bm
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haha hilarious isn't it?
Don't remember what blh was supposed to stand for at this point.
DId you get so mad that you didn't know what you were typing?
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TLADT24920 Posts
^ L2P. No one likes cheesy zergs! :D
On June 27 2018 15:27 ninazerg wrote:
lol, tried to do a 1-base all-in and got punished.
Canada #1 in bm
that was not a 1 base all-in. I wanted to put pressure early on and expand once I felt safe enough so I went 3 instead of 2 rax. Also, I've always went 3 rax FE in our games whenever I wanted to vary up my game so it's nothing new here (I busted his natural back on Triathlon when I faked an expo years ago for example).
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I see. BigFan doesn't cheese, he "varies up his game".
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On June 28 2018 03:52 BigFan wrote:^ L2P. No one likes cheesy zergs! :D Show nested quote +On June 27 2018 15:27 ninazerg wrote:
lol, tried to do a 1-base all-in and got punished.
Canada #1 in bm that was not a 1 base all-in. I wanted to put pressure early on and expand once I felt safe enough so I went 3 instead of 2 rax. Also, I've always went 3 rax FE in our games whenever I wanted to vary up my game so it's nothing new here (I busted his natural back on Triathlon when I faked an expo years ago for example).
When is a FE not a FE anymore? When you go 3 rax first.
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Netherlands5270 Posts
Your 3 rax made no sense to me. I'm pretty sure you could get more infantry out if you just did 2 rax. lol
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TLADT24920 Posts
On June 28 2018 15:38 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2018 03:52 BigFan wrote:^ L2P. No one likes cheesy zergs! :D On June 27 2018 15:27 ninazerg wrote:
lol, tried to do a 1-base all-in and got punished.
Canada #1 in bm that was not a 1 base all-in. I wanted to put pressure early on and expand once I felt safe enough so I went 3 instead of 2 rax. Also, I've always went 3 rax FE in our games whenever I wanted to vary up my game so it's nothing new here (I busted his natural back on Triathlon when I faked an expo years ago for example). When is a FE not a FE anymore? When you go 3 rax first.
fine, I see you're trying to debate semantics. I was going for 3 rax to get a small army for early pressure into an expansion asap. I didn't cut any workers for any long period of time afaik and I believe that the only time I may have cut was when I was trying to get the rax down.
On June 28 2018 20:41 Peeano wrote:
Your 3 rax made no sense to me. I'm pretty sure you could get more infantry out if you just did 2 rax. lol
you'll have to explain this a bit more Peeano. Are you implying that with 2 rax, I can aim for a faster expansion and a better eco earlier therefore more units later or are you trying to imply that 2 rax comes out faster than 3 rax and the difference in timing means more marines before my first movement/expansion? Keep in mind this assumes that I keep making units, avoiding supply blocks as I go.
Regardless of which one you're implying, 3 rax was a staple go-to build in the event that I avoid a 1 rax FE. I go for the usual opening, add acad then 2 more rax, research stim and range asap while keep tabs on enemy (order varies). Reason I don't use it much anymore is because JxN is pretty good at scouting and always sunkens up in time, unless I fake a FE and hit him before he realizes it. Main reason 1 rax FE is my go-to build and I do it pretty much 99% of my games lol.
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Netherlands5270 Posts
I'm taking a closer look now...
Your first supply depot is a bit late, but your second supply depot is hella late, your 3rd supply is a bit late again.
Ok. Well, let's assume your supply depots are on point then 3 rax should have a similar timing with a few more units.
3 rax is quite all in, and I would never do it on a map that allows zerg to take his natural on highground, because sunkens on high ground are really OP vs bio.
With 3 rax I don't think you care if zerg gets gas, I'd even say it's preferred you let him gas, but let's say you were mindgaming him, then still as soon he placed his 3rd hatch you should have canceled that refinery and use those resources for your 3rax. Remember you're trying to hit a timing. You're just delaying it by keeping that refinery up. Also I'm pretty sure he would hurt his own economy if he takes a gas at the same time as his 3 hatch, and he can take the expansion gas anyway in case that is a false statement. (I haven't played Zerg in a while, so I'm only 95% sure).
When the drone scouted you, you started building a refinery. Another mindgame? Anyway, you were on 300 gas when your academy finished. Now your timing is even later, because of all your excess gas. Ok, not perfect mechanics, no biggie, but at least pull scv at least 2 scvs off gas if you notice that. That's just wasted income. Banking gas that early only puts you more behind. (You don't need 3 on gas to sustain mm pump from 3 rax).
Some other thoughts:
- Since this map has a pseudo 10th mineral patch I would actually not consider 3 rax that all in, but you're mining that 10th one before you even touched all other 9 mineral fields!
- He has high ground advantage, so I think It's even more essential that you hide your build as long as possible. In the worse best case scenario you force him to make more sunkens than he needs because he sees you move out on your timing attack, but didn't know your build beforehand.
- I believe the only time it's actually beneficial to gas steal a zerg is when he went 12 pool (perhaps overpool, but I don't think overpool is good build order vs terran in the first place?)
- Academy has the same build time as a barracks, this is interesting to realise because it helps managing your gas timing. If you start refinery and academy(/barracks) at the same time, you hit 100 gas when the academy finishes. So get your refinery just a bit earlier and you will have just enough gas to get stimpack and 2-3 medic/firebat as needed.
I've personally had the best success with 3rax only getting 3-4 medics, get at least 2 of them early for more energy. Ideally you want to hit 150/175 gas when your academy finishes.
- No excess gas, means you're economically healthy regardless of your opening build. (I think this is one of the most important things in BW for getting decent build orders, i.e. minerals can always be used while gas cannot.)
I hope I said something useful to you. ^^
I'm looking forward to the next bo3. Perhaps you can mix in a 2port or vult drop opening?)
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TLADT24920 Posts
First off, thanks for the analysis. I wasn't expecting that much lol, wanted mostly to get why you think 2 rax > 3 rax in terms of unit production.
Ya, I don't always get my supply depots at the right time. Some days I do, other days I'm off. I've learned not to fight it, but accept it. Much like my macro, some days I'm on top of it till late late game and other days, I'm floating 2k on 2-3 bases which is preposterous. My form fluctuates a lot from day to day. I'm sure JieXian can attest to that haha.
As for 3 rax, you missed the reason I went for it which I touched on above. The double ramp which increases the risk and is hard-ish to wall plus the fact that I'm playing a cheesy player highly increased the chance of a large zergling attack/all-in. I even placed an SCV to scout the back entrance too because I had a feeling and viola, it happens. I just didn't do better scouting around and my prep could've been better (I should've gotten a bunker at the minimum and I would've had time if I even saw some zerglings earlier) so that was my fault there.
Ya, I was just having fun with the gas steal. He likes his mutalisks so this delays them and if he doesn't like the delay, he's forced into lurkers at which point the 3 rax helps there since I've had control mistakes at times. The gas timing with the acad and moving workers back to mining is something I've done before and could've been a better idea to do here.
Some interesting thoughts in the "other thoughts" area. Ya, I wanted to hide it as much as I could and for sure, a gas steal would've been better with pool first. I think one thing you have to realize is that in our games, there's a lot of mind games and randomness that goes on. I can't speak much for JieXian, but I certainly don't follow any BOs whatsoever. I always usually start with the 9 depot 11 rax and from there, I go 14 cc on low ground and adjust as I see it getting acad, more prod structures, ebay etc... at random times. For me, BW is a form of art where my goal is to beat my opponent, not go through the 'usual motions'. Sure, following a better tailored build helps protect me against certain timings that my own play makes me susceptible too, but it's a risk I'm willing to take.
Thanks for the comment overall. I honestly don't think I'll be doing any more BO3 battlereports. As much as I like the idea of playing a set of games and then reporting on them as I did here, it takes a lot of time and effort to put together a series BR narrative wise etc... The second game on Third World took a long time to blog and sadly, there's barely any views or comments compared to say 2012-14 days. I'll still do single game battle reports though so if you like reading BRs, I won't be stopping overall ^^
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Netherlands5270 Posts
I don't really follow build orders myself. But I like to have a solid early game as there is nothing else to do then anyway. My favourite mini game is to help gathering speed up manually so I can build my supply depot (even as a wall in) at the same time as my 9th scv and not be supply blocked for the 11th scv. Whenever I catch a pro gather manually I get excited. Even 0.2 seconds count. It allows for innitiave, which huge in mirror match ups, or helps you deflect rushes/timing attacks more easily. This is probably biased but I most oftenly caught Flash & Bisu doing this.
Oh, I totally understand battle reports take lots of time. I was mainly expressing I enjoyed reading these 3. Thx. It reminded me of playing 1v1s with a buddy back in the day.
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I honestly don't think I'll be doing any more BO3 battlereports.
Tell them the real honest reason, being that you can't win any BO3s. Hahaha. Even when you cheese... I mean "vary it up".
To your credit you honoured your promise to BR our BO3 before we had started it.
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TLADT24920 Posts
I would've said that if it was the case. This was the only BO3 we've ever done so nice try cheeser! :D
I always keep my promises!
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Japan11286 Posts
I just laughed internally as 3 rax no expo got systematically dismantled by JieXian rofl
I should just go 4 gate templar FE then xD
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TLADT24920 Posts
lol. It was dumb luck, we all know it. He does too!
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Japan11286 Posts
Maybe you should "vary up your builds" some more next time :D
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TLADT24920 Posts
haha we'll see. I already tried mech twice on third world and it went better than I thought (some mistakes etc... but it was still decent-ish). On that note, I might not need to vary up my builds anymore. He dies to my standard play on standard maps now rofl.
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