• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:15
CEST 10:15
KST 17:15
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL47Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4
Community News
BGE Stara Zagora 2025 - Replay Pack2Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates9GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th13Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back0
StarCraft 2
General
Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Official Replay Pack BGE Stara Zagora 2025 - Replay Pack Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation
Tourneys
[GSL 2025] Code S:Season 2 - RO8 - Group A Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Bellum Gens Elite: Stara Zagora 2025 $3,500 WardiTV European League 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans?
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET NA Team League 6/8/2025 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Armies of Exigo - YesYes? Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 32190 users

Starcraft for Advanced Players

Blogs > FiveHundred
Post a Reply
FiveHundred
Profile Blog Joined April 2017
109 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-03 12:52:04
May 02 2017 22:53 GMT
#1
The third installment of Starcraft for Advanced Players is underway as I make some replays of Advanced Builds for Advanced Players. Thanks to all the TL.nettians who have responded to Advanced Players.

We get some good results behind the scenes. My APM is up to around 270, which is higher than it has been in more than 10 years, and only 30 less than my career high average.

The builds are showing a lot more finesse.

the first replay

We get a win here with Reaver-Carrier which is looking a lot better to me than Reaver Scout. Regardless of our opinions about The Stove™, the Scout remains somewhat dubious in the PvT matchup.

The opponent is a little slow as you can see from the replay he has high static resources. I don't think this playstyle is as bad as it appears and might be quite good for Zerg especially.



the second replay

We get another win against a slower opponent on Python. I am surprised at the robust-ness of the positions as we get to use some 12/3 LT tactics in reverse. Granted we probably could have won without the Shield Batteries, but it opens some more options for our Carriers -- actually we see that in this situation a point of Armor is not much better than a point of Shields...

an aside: For new players it interesting to note that Starcraft Armor is quite different than the system used in other games like DotA and WC:TFT. Because the Damage Reduction is handled arithmetically, 1 point of Shields is quite a bit worse (other reasons notwithstanding) than 1 point of Armor. I am talking about Carriers which have a base 4 Armor. 5 Armor is much better than 1 Shields, Shield Batteries notwithstanding.



the third replay

We get another Terran opponent. This player is a bit better than the previous two. We explore Scout-first in PvT. There are some advantages to this with our planned opening. Since we aim to use Reavers to support our Carriers, one option available is to forgo the Reavers in favor of earlier Carriers. I don't like this option much because of Vultures, and it doesn't allow us to contain at the third. One advantage is the opponent is almost required to start Goliaths earlier which gives us more opportunities with the Reaver-Carrier combo.

We look at adding Arbiters. Arbiters are like drugs. You're not supposed to use drugs, and you're not supposed to know how drugs work. That's how Arbiters are. I don't see any reason to block the ramp with ice block when we can just Reaver the main.

as an aside: Trolling (fishing) -- Trolling, in proper English refers to fishing. in other words, the statement "I am a troll" is nonsense in the context of the meme. The role of fish in global causation is not nonsense. The bizarre superstition, discussed below, that fish are responsible for generating bizarre and nonsensical memes is at most not-unique.

I'm writing a book about causation. If you are interested in what constitutes trolling and what doesn't constitute trolling you can read my book. As the book is at great length to explain, there are a great many paradoxes. You can find the list of paradoxes on Wikipedia. There are a great many paradoxes, and they're not all the same. Each paradox creates a "blind spot" in our cultural vision and people get frustrated and act retarded. This is the trolling phenomenon. The paradoxes exist because the questions are complicated. Presumably there is some inexplicable link between the ocean, which we don't live in, and fish, which we aren't, and the propagation of fish which eventually led to humans who play Starcraft through a tentative process we don't really understand called evolution. If we understood the process we wouldn't have a wondrous fixation upon fish, however interesting they are, because as everyone knows there is a much more extensive list of living things. This list is available on OneZoom which displays a very comprehensive diagram of life on Earth.

If you have worries about trolling please express them somewhere else. My blog is about Starcraft. If you want to talk about philosophical paradoxes and their empirical implications, we can discuss them mathematically within the context of the game. I do not wish to be trolled, and my intention is not to troll anyone. In fact, I chose the name Ayatrollah specifically because the Ayatollah lives in a desert and fish are not common in the desert. Paradoxes, mathematical, philosophical, logical, scientific, and so on are welcome on my blog, and I am happy to talk about them directly if you feel compelled to discuss them. If you are interested in trolling I do not want to hear about it directly but would be happy to entertain your opinions about how memetic properties or emergent systems are represented in Starcraft. I think Mutalisk micro, Dragoon glitches, Reaver glitches, Spider-mine dodges, Probe-transfers, Dark Templar walls, Mind Control, Dark Swarm, hold-position Lurkers, and so on is sufficient empirical evidence of paradoxes at work in the theory of computation and complexity. If you want to talk about trolling, confine the discussion to these interesting Starcraft-related events.



I plan to keep the thread updated as I play games and record replays.

edit: the thread has received updated VODs. let me know if they are viewable.

*
Recipient of a divinity survey. Users can identify you by your password. A cat is a fully-explained dog.
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
May 02 2017 23:06 GMT
#2
This video contains content from Warner Chapell, who has blocked it on copyright grounds.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
FiveHundred
Profile Blog Joined April 2017
109 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-03 04:52:38
May 02 2017 23:34 GMT
#3
On May 03 2017 08:06 ninazerg wrote:
This video contains content from Warner Chapell, who has blocked it on copyright grounds.


lol. are you just saying that or are you actually unable to watch the VOD? I know that certain Led Zeppeling songs are unavailable to viewers in the United States, but I am able to watch them anyway. Do I need to remove the music or are these view-able?

edit: also, I have contacted Warner Chapell and we have agreed to an out-of-court settlement agreeable to each.
Recipient of a divinity survey. Users can identify you by your password. A cat is a fully-explained dog.
Coagulation
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States9633 Posts
May 03 2017 03:26 GMT
#4
its blocked
ImbaTosS
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom1685 Posts
May 03 2017 07:45 GMT
#5
It's a fun build, but your opponent seems very low level. I don't see why he myopically focused on killing your cannons and taking his third right there! What was his best rank?
EleGant[AoV]
FiveHundred
Profile Blog Joined April 2017
109 Posts
May 03 2017 08:49 GMT
#6
On May 03 2017 16:45 ImbaTosS wrote:
It's a fun build, but your opponent seems very low level. I don't see why he myopically focused on killing your cannons and taking his third right there! What was his best rank?


Yeah, it seems the only opponents I can find today are Terran. I found some well-known players earlier but I'm not releasing any crucial replays of new builds until the situation with North Korea calms down. Brood War is just too important in the global strategy, and too much hangs in the balance; so there's no way to release anything major while Pyongyang appears to be acting against our best interests.
Recipient of a divinity survey. Users can identify you by your password. A cat is a fully-explained dog.
SkrollK
Profile Joined January 2015
France580 Posts
May 03 2017 10:36 GMT
#7
Sorry to break the fun here, but your trolls are not that fun anymore.

The first one was entertaining and well placed, it was ambiguous as if you were actually serious or not, at least a little...

The quality of your posts spiraled downward ever since, in a pretty poor manner... You should refrain your posting frenzy of low quality content, else you'll get poorly rated. And none wants that to happen, do we ?
FiveHundred
Profile Blog Joined April 2017
109 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-03 11:33:07
May 03 2017 11:30 GMT
#8
On May 03 2017 19:36 SkrollK wrote:
Sorry to break the fun here, but your trolls are not that fun anymore.

The first one was entertaining and well placed, it was ambiguous as if you were actually serious or not, at least a little...

The quality of your posts spiraled downward ever since, in a pretty poor manner... You should refrain your posting frenzy of low quality content, else you'll get poorly rated. And none wants that to happen, do we ?


Well, on the contrary, the dodge-miss in the second game is one of the most important events I have seen in Starcraft.

Thus, the second game is quite important. We can see the tank on the low ground dodge-miss the Reaver at 2:38. We haven't seen this tactic used in professional games. Obviously the dodge-miss is a major advantage with Reaver control because as you can see from the replay the Terran player is forced to repair the damaged Tank.
Recipient of a divinity survey. Users can identify you by your password. A cat is a fully-explained dog.
ImbaTosS
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom1685 Posts
May 03 2017 12:43 GMT
#9
Aww I really suck at identifying trolls. I'm very trusting- I behave on the internet as I would in real life. More fool me for thinking others do the same...
EleGant[AoV]
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 15m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech56
trigger 34
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 31823
TY 691
Pusan 557
ToSsGirL 303
Leta 122
Shine 122
BeSt 114
EffOrt 108
Aegong 107
Movie 42
[ Show more ]
NaDa 27
NotJumperer 25
PianO 21
Sharp 15
Dota 2
XcaliburYe271
BananaSlamJamma213
Fuzer 163
420jenkins108
XaKoH 23
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss668
Stewie2K612
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor136
Other Games
ceh9395
Happy221
Pyrionflax90
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream5358
Other Games
gamesdonequick574
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 60
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 31
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
GSL Code S
1h 15m
Rogue vs GuMiho
Maru vs Solar
Online Event
15h 45m
Replay Cast
17h 45m
GSL Code S
1d 1h
herO vs Zoun
Classic vs Bunny
The PondCast
1d 1h
Replay Cast
1d 15h
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
OSC
2 days
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
SOOP
3 days
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
Cheesadelphia
3 days
CSO Cup
3 days
GSL Code S
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Cure vs Percival
ByuN vs Spirit
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.