• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:49
CEST 03:49
KST 10:49
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy18ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
$5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy2GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding3Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win0[BSL22] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6
StarCraft 2
General
Quebec Clan still alive ? Best Time to Book Blue Mountains Private Tours for BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win
Tourneys
GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding $5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion so ive been playing broodwar for a week straight. Gypsy to Korea Pros React To: JaeDong vs Queen [BSL22] RO32 Group Stage
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL22] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CEST [BSL22] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CEST 🌍 Weekly Foreign Showmatches
Strategy
Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Loot Boxes—Emotions, And Why…
TrAiDoS
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2612 users

Starcraft for Advanced Players

Blogs > FiveHundred
Post a Reply
FiveHundred
Profile Blog Joined April 2017
109 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-03 12:52:04
May 02 2017 22:53 GMT
#1
The third installment of Starcraft for Advanced Players is underway as I make some replays of Advanced Builds for Advanced Players. Thanks to all the TL.nettians who have responded to Advanced Players.

We get some good results behind the scenes. My APM is up to around 270, which is higher than it has been in more than 10 years, and only 30 less than my career high average.

The builds are showing a lot more finesse.

the first replay

We get a win here with Reaver-Carrier which is looking a lot better to me than Reaver Scout. Regardless of our opinions about The Stove™, the Scout remains somewhat dubious in the PvT matchup.

The opponent is a little slow as you can see from the replay he has high static resources. I don't think this playstyle is as bad as it appears and might be quite good for Zerg especially.



the second replay

We get another win against a slower opponent on Python. I am surprised at the robust-ness of the positions as we get to use some 12/3 LT tactics in reverse. Granted we probably could have won without the Shield Batteries, but it opens some more options for our Carriers -- actually we see that in this situation a point of Armor is not much better than a point of Shields...

an aside: For new players it interesting to note that Starcraft Armor is quite different than the system used in other games like DotA and WC:TFT. Because the Damage Reduction is handled arithmetically, 1 point of Shields is quite a bit worse (other reasons notwithstanding) than 1 point of Armor. I am talking about Carriers which have a base 4 Armor. 5 Armor is much better than 1 Shields, Shield Batteries notwithstanding.



the third replay

We get another Terran opponent. This player is a bit better than the previous two. We explore Scout-first in PvT. There are some advantages to this with our planned opening. Since we aim to use Reavers to support our Carriers, one option available is to forgo the Reavers in favor of earlier Carriers. I don't like this option much because of Vultures, and it doesn't allow us to contain at the third. One advantage is the opponent is almost required to start Goliaths earlier which gives us more opportunities with the Reaver-Carrier combo.

We look at adding Arbiters. Arbiters are like drugs. You're not supposed to use drugs, and you're not supposed to know how drugs work. That's how Arbiters are. I don't see any reason to block the ramp with ice block when we can just Reaver the main.

as an aside: Trolling (fishing) -- Trolling, in proper English refers to fishing. in other words, the statement "I am a troll" is nonsense in the context of the meme. The role of fish in global causation is not nonsense. The bizarre superstition, discussed below, that fish are responsible for generating bizarre and nonsensical memes is at most not-unique.

I'm writing a book about causation. If you are interested in what constitutes trolling and what doesn't constitute trolling you can read my book. As the book is at great length to explain, there are a great many paradoxes. You can find the list of paradoxes on Wikipedia. There are a great many paradoxes, and they're not all the same. Each paradox creates a "blind spot" in our cultural vision and people get frustrated and act retarded. This is the trolling phenomenon. The paradoxes exist because the questions are complicated. Presumably there is some inexplicable link between the ocean, which we don't live in, and fish, which we aren't, and the propagation of fish which eventually led to humans who play Starcraft through a tentative process we don't really understand called evolution. If we understood the process we wouldn't have a wondrous fixation upon fish, however interesting they are, because as everyone knows there is a much more extensive list of living things. This list is available on OneZoom which displays a very comprehensive diagram of life on Earth.

If you have worries about trolling please express them somewhere else. My blog is about Starcraft. If you want to talk about philosophical paradoxes and their empirical implications, we can discuss them mathematically within the context of the game. I do not wish to be trolled, and my intention is not to troll anyone. In fact, I chose the name Ayatrollah specifically because the Ayatollah lives in a desert and fish are not common in the desert. Paradoxes, mathematical, philosophical, logical, scientific, and so on are welcome on my blog, and I am happy to talk about them directly if you feel compelled to discuss them. If you are interested in trolling I do not want to hear about it directly but would be happy to entertain your opinions about how memetic properties or emergent systems are represented in Starcraft. I think Mutalisk micro, Dragoon glitches, Reaver glitches, Spider-mine dodges, Probe-transfers, Dark Templar walls, Mind Control, Dark Swarm, hold-position Lurkers, and so on is sufficient empirical evidence of paradoxes at work in the theory of computation and complexity. If you want to talk about trolling, confine the discussion to these interesting Starcraft-related events.



I plan to keep the thread updated as I play games and record replays.

edit: the thread has received updated VODs. let me know if they are viewable.

*
Recipient of a divinity survey. Users can identify you by your password. A cat is a fully-explained dog.
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
May 02 2017 23:06 GMT
#2
This video contains content from Warner Chapell, who has blocked it on copyright grounds.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
FiveHundred
Profile Blog Joined April 2017
109 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-03 04:52:38
May 02 2017 23:34 GMT
#3
On May 03 2017 08:06 ninazerg wrote:
This video contains content from Warner Chapell, who has blocked it on copyright grounds.


lol. are you just saying that or are you actually unable to watch the VOD? I know that certain Led Zeppeling songs are unavailable to viewers in the United States, but I am able to watch them anyway. Do I need to remove the music or are these view-able?

edit: also, I have contacted Warner Chapell and we have agreed to an out-of-court settlement agreeable to each.
Recipient of a divinity survey. Users can identify you by your password. A cat is a fully-explained dog.
Coagulation
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States9633 Posts
May 03 2017 03:26 GMT
#4
its blocked
ImbaTosS
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom1708 Posts
May 03 2017 07:45 GMT
#5
It's a fun build, but your opponent seems very low level. I don't see why he myopically focused on killing your cannons and taking his third right there! What was his best rank?
EleGant[AoV]
FiveHundred
Profile Blog Joined April 2017
109 Posts
May 03 2017 08:49 GMT
#6
On May 03 2017 16:45 ImbaTosS wrote:
It's a fun build, but your opponent seems very low level. I don't see why he myopically focused on killing your cannons and taking his third right there! What was his best rank?


Yeah, it seems the only opponents I can find today are Terran. I found some well-known players earlier but I'm not releasing any crucial replays of new builds until the situation with North Korea calms down. Brood War is just too important in the global strategy, and too much hangs in the balance; so there's no way to release anything major while Pyongyang appears to be acting against our best interests.
Recipient of a divinity survey. Users can identify you by your password. A cat is a fully-explained dog.
SkrollK
Profile Joined January 2015
France580 Posts
May 03 2017 10:36 GMT
#7
Sorry to break the fun here, but your trolls are not that fun anymore.

The first one was entertaining and well placed, it was ambiguous as if you were actually serious or not, at least a little...

The quality of your posts spiraled downward ever since, in a pretty poor manner... You should refrain your posting frenzy of low quality content, else you'll get poorly rated. And none wants that to happen, do we ?
FiveHundred
Profile Blog Joined April 2017
109 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-03 11:33:07
May 03 2017 11:30 GMT
#8
On May 03 2017 19:36 SkrollK wrote:
Sorry to break the fun here, but your trolls are not that fun anymore.

The first one was entertaining and well placed, it was ambiguous as if you were actually serious or not, at least a little...

The quality of your posts spiraled downward ever since, in a pretty poor manner... You should refrain your posting frenzy of low quality content, else you'll get poorly rated. And none wants that to happen, do we ?


Well, on the contrary, the dodge-miss in the second game is one of the most important events I have seen in Starcraft.

Thus, the second game is quite important. We can see the tank on the low ground dodge-miss the Reaver at 2:38. We haven't seen this tactic used in professional games. Obviously the dodge-miss is a major advantage with Reaver control because as you can see from the replay the Terran player is forced to repair the damaged Tank.
Recipient of a divinity survey. Users can identify you by your password. A cat is a fully-explained dog.
ImbaTosS
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom1708 Posts
May 03 2017 12:43 GMT
#9
Aww I really suck at identifying trolls. I'm very trusting- I behave on the internet as I would in real life. More fool me for thinking others do the same...
EleGant[AoV]
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
CranKy Ducklings
00:00
TLMC #22: Map Judging #2
CranKy Ducklings41
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft294
RuFF_SC2 112
SpeCial 92
Vindicta 34
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 6232
Artosis 649
NaDa 17
Terrorterran 9
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm63
League of Legends
JimRising 461
Counter-Strike
taco 688
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0476
hungrybox375
Other Games
summit1g11582
Day[9].tv814
Maynarde120
ViBE89
Mew2King46
CosmosSc2 17
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP5
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• practicex 0
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki10
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift4642
• TFBlade1606
Other Games
• Scarra971
• Day9tv814
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Team League
9h 11m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 8h
WardiTV Team League
1d 9h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 13h
BSL
1d 17h
n0maD vs perroflaco
TerrOr vs ZZZero
MadiNho vs WolFix
DragOn vs LancerX
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Team League
2 days
OSC
2 days
BSL
2 days
Sterling vs Azhi_Dahaki
Napoleon vs Mazur
Jimin vs Nesh
spx vs Strudel
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
GSL
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Elite League 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W2
IPSL Spring 2026
Escore Tournament S2: W3
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
RSL Revival: Season 5
WardiTV TLMC #16
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.