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FF7 Remake combat analysed

Blogs > FFGenerations
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FFGenerations
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
7088 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-19 19:36:23
February 19 2017 03:04 GMT
#1
UPDATE: comments continue at https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/5uwe46/i_have_drawn_several_fascinating_connections_from/



Tldr: In the new system, I believe the ATB gauge is able to stack up to 3 times. This is because a lot of the FF7 Remake gameplay will be about actively re-positioning your characters during battle to avoid enemy attacks. A stacking ATB gauge removes the necessity for a Wait mode whilst allowing the player to deal with the mechanical demand of controlling 3 characters. The limit break gauge will also charge three bars, allowing us to utilise a greater variety of limits in battle than we have been able to in the past.



Skip video of me talking and read text if you prefer.









[image loading]

[image loading]



I have been able to make several interesting connections based on the two screenshots released today. Skip to Section 4 if you want the biggest one.


Section 1.

Enemy attack indications appear on the ground in some cases, and you are able to switch between characters and move them to dodge attacks. This is streamlined obviously to work well with console controls.


Section 2.

Your own attacks are auto-target as per usual in FF games. However, the ability to reposition characters might mean there is the possibility of positional/area-based user-controlled spells. E.g. to AOE heal, you would need to move close to your party members. Personally I think this would be unnecessary to make good gameplay and would have been discarded as an idea, making all user-controlled actions completely auto-target.


Section 3.

The limit break gauge charges up and you can release it at one of 3 charges. Why implement this? Well, in FF7 you were always locked to using 1 or 2 of your current-level limits. There was next to no variation or choice. You always used your latest limit learned, or you remained locked into the one before that if it was effectively more powerful (e.g. AOE vs single target vs multi-strike).

Having a 3-bar charge gives us the choice between our three most recently learnt limits, but there is still doubt on how interesting this is as a gameplay mechanic, when our 'choice' is actually just a choice on whether or not we want to wait an extra 2 minutes or not in order to charge the next bar, for the result of ending the current battle sooner, just so that the next battle takes longer.

To get a good idea of how they might implement this, take a look at Cyan's attack gauge from FF6. When it was your time to attack, you click Attack and then wait a stacking ~5 seconds to attain a bonus in your attack, up until something like 25 seconds.

Attack variations for Cyan's gauge include: 1 charge - an attack with bonus damage, 3 charges - half the HP of an opponent, 4 charges - perform 4 physical attacks at once.

How often did I actually care whether I waited to charge it up for 5 seconds or 20 seconds? Never. The system gave the developers a huge amount of freedom to implement variety in attacks, but as a gameplay mechanic it fell flat on its face. 'Do nothing to do more,' for me, was a counter-intuitive and non-interactive mechanic which consequently felt like it benefited me in no meaningful way.


Section 4.

This is the big one and is most indicative of how the game will play. The ATP gauge has 3 charges. The charges start at 0, so they charge up during battle. You gain one when your main ATP gauge fills and can expend each one to perform a menu action.

My first thought was that they may be used to allow us to dodge/parry attacks with a button prompt. In FF15 we can observe this dodge/parry mechanic, but I do not think this will be in FF7. This is because it will be too difficult for players to have to respond to arbitrary dodge/parry prompts for all three of their characters, whilst also moving their characters and performing regular actions. I think there will be no active user dodge/parry mechanic in this game.

Instead, you will have the ability to store up to three ATP bars worth of regular menu actions and then utilise them all at once, or one by one when you get around to it. This is because it ties into the fact that a large part of the game will be about the re-positioning your characters in order to dodge enemy attack indications, as described in Section 1. Refer now to the screenshot that shows this, if you haven't already.

The necessity to re-position your characters means you will be busy a lot of the time. Instead of forcing you to constantly pause/freeze the game (aka our well-known 'wait' mode), instead your ATP charges will simply stack up a bit until you have time to utilise them and perform your regular actions for each of your three characters.

There will be no 'wait' or freeze mode in FF7 because of this ATB bar stacking. This lends to a more fluid gameplay experience whilst, crucially, enabling the developers to fit in more complex mechanics such as the re-positioning and menu action coordination of three separate heroes.

It is for these reasons that I am now excited about the combat system in FF7 and an advancement in complexity from the system we saw in FF15.

Comments continue below or on Reddit at https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/5uwe46/i_have_drawn_several_fascinating_connections_from/

*
Cool BW Music Vid - youtube.com/watch?v=W54nlqJ-Nx8 ~~~~~ ᕤ OYSTERS ᕤ CLAMS ᕤ AND ᕤ CUCKOLDS ᕤ ~~~~~~ ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ PUNCH HIM ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ
Foxxan
Profile Joined October 2004
Sweden3427 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-19 12:47:13
February 19 2017 12:46 GMT
#2
Read section 4, didnt understand everything but it sounds very interesting. Really hope they go through with the sort-of turn-based battle because i feel that is the way to really add tactgics and strategy if done right.
FFGenerations
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
7088 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-19 16:10:08
February 19 2017 16:09 GMT
#3
the reason i am hopeful for my interpretation of the mechanics is because the 'stacking' of up to 3 action bars of actions is exactly what will enables the devs to fit in a bunch of extra mechanics and challenges for the player without having to slow down or pause the action in the way that we usually see in more complex games
Cool BW Music Vid - youtube.com/watch?v=W54nlqJ-Nx8 ~~~~~ ᕤ OYSTERS ᕤ CLAMS ᕤ AND ᕤ CUCKOLDS ᕤ ~~~~~~ ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ PUNCH HIM ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8751 Posts
February 19 2017 21:41 GMT
#4
seems like this system has the potential for big improvement for multiplayer over what i remember in my childhood "you control cecil, i control kain". it's kinda silly for one household to have multiple saves going. and if you have one save, then you have to take turns playing. it'd be a really cool feature for me if you could assign additional players to characters to control in battle so they can be controlled simultaneously. this battle system seems like that could actually be somewhat engaging instead of just splitting duties in a system obviously designed for only one player
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
Foxxan
Profile Joined October 2004
Sweden3427 Posts
February 21 2017 21:41 GMT
#5
Clicked your link at top just now. Read some comments, hell i am not sure i will like this combat.. I want turn based ffs. Not some shit where the a.i controls two chars i have so fucking bad/boring experience with that already in games such as dragon age inquisiiton, pillars of eternity
FFGenerations
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
7088 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-21 22:21:46
February 21 2017 22:18 GMT
#6
On February 22 2017 06:41 Foxxan wrote:
Clicked your link at top just now. Read some comments, hell i am not sure i will like this combat.. I want turn based ffs. Not some shit where the a.i controls two chars i have so fucking bad/boring experience with that already in games such as dragon age inquisiiton, pillars of eternity


i don't think the AI will control 2 chars. that's the point. the ATB bar stacking is what allows a single player to have time to control all 3 characters at once in a complex way.

nony's comment on multiplayer is really interesting, i mean it's not something i've ever thought about but i see how it'd work if it was 2-3 friends or siblings who lived together, and it was just a 'plug in and play' mechanic for combat. i played a lot of the original FF7 with my brother just sitting afk watching me.

i don't think multiplayer is implemented in Kingdom Hearts, but it is apparently in the works for FF15 for some non-core DLC campaigns in the distant future. given this, i don't see any reason for co-op battle mode to be excluded from core FF7 so long as they've planned ahead that far.

in fact, i would say it is something that the ATB bar charge system enables, because when a second player joins in, the developers can reduce the ATB max charges down to 2 or 1 or whatever to balance out the reduced gameplay difficulty.
Cool BW Music Vid - youtube.com/watch?v=W54nlqJ-Nx8 ~~~~~ ᕤ OYSTERS ᕤ CLAMS ᕤ AND ᕤ CUCKOLDS ᕤ ~~~~~~ ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ PUNCH HIM ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ
Foxxan
Profile Joined October 2004
Sweden3427 Posts
February 22 2017 10:33 GMT
#7
I cant care about the MP when i dont know how the SP will be. If they design it well, MP could indeed be very fun as well.
I would be more interest in 1v1 MP though(controlling a whole party yourself). But yeah i guess in a complex way will do for now.
lestye
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States4208 Posts
February 23 2017 07:39 GMT
#8
Awesome analysis. I'm hoping everyone on this forum will have some sick nasty micro when the game comes out if you can control multiple party members.

I hope they are open minded with combat feedback like the FFXV devs were throughout the initial demos.

On February 22 2017 06:41 Foxxan wrote:
Clicked your link at top just now. Read some comments, hell i am not sure i will like this combat.. I want turn based ffs. Not some shit where the a.i controls two chars i have so fucking bad/boring experience with that already in games such as dragon age inquisiiton, pillars of eternity


I thought Dragon Age: Origins did it fine, as did FXII.
"You guys are just edgelords. Embrace your inner weeb desu" -Zergneedsfood
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