• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 09:43
CET 15:43
KST 23:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13
StarCraft 2
General
Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4) BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win SC2 Proleague Discontinued; SKT, KT, SGK, CJ disband
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) RSL Offline FInals Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Which season is the best in ASL? Data analysis on 70 million replays BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread The Perfect Game Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Big Programming Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Where to ask questions and add stream? The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Physical Exertion During Gam…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1417 users

Returning to My Roots

Blogs > Eternal Dalek
Post a Reply
Aron Times
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States312 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-11 19:35:25
April 07 2016 17:05 GMT
#1
Team Games in Starcraft 2
  1. Returning to My Roots
  2. Specialization or Division of Labor
  3. Attention and APM are Limited Resources


Who I Am

Hello, my name is Aron Times. I started playing Starcraft back in 1998 as Terran, before we had Medics. That's right, kids, we had Stim Packs before we had Medics or Medivacs, just like how canned food was invented before the can opener. It was a Dark Age of 150 mineral Spawning Pools and 200 mineral factories, of Engineering Bays that could fly and a complete absence of permacloaked combat units (yes, Arbiters existed, but they themselves were not cloaked, so you had a way of dealing with them even without detection).

Starcraft 1

I experienced multiplayer Starcraft primarily through 4v4 continental maps. These were UMS maps which forced teammates to spawn next to each other, on their own respective islands (continents, really, considering their massive size). That was the only way of ensuring that teammates spawned next to each other. If played as a Melee map, starting locations were completely randomized, to the point of allowing one enemy to spawn around three allies.

Warcraft 3

I later moved on to Warcraft 3, where I played RT 3v3 on Kalimdor (the Asian server). My friends all thought that I was crazy because playing team games would not only limit my self-improvement, but also pair me up with trolls and griefers and other troublemakers that would make for a frustrating gaming experience.

In reality, once you got past the first few matches, you eventually moved to a point where everyone generally knew what they were doing. The worst games I had were when I got teammates that didn't speak English (Koreans and Mongolians, primarily), or those new players who came from 1v1 and had no idea how to play team games (team games generally require less mechanical skill and more strategy and much more communication than 1v1).

Starcraft 2

Eventually, I moved on to Starcraft 2, where I played 1v1 almost exclusively from the beginning. Despite having dramatically improved in mechanics and strategy and decision making over the past 18 years, winning in 1v1 felt hollow. This wasn't how I played Starcraft. This wasn't how I enjoyed the game.

A few days ago, on a whim, I decided to test out RT matchmaking in LotV. I started with 2v2, then 3v3, and then 4v4. To my surprise, queue times were very fast (4v4 ranked is faster than DotA 2 ranked), and most of my teammates knew what they were doing (even during the placement matches). Even better, my preferred playstyle (Rush) was actually viable in team games, while my least preferred playstyle (Boom) was risky, the way it used to be back in the day.

After playing my placement matches for all three team game modes (2v2, 3v3, and 4v4), I searched for SC2 team game strategy online, only to find... nothing. The most recent guides for team games date from 2013, and they're only for 2v2. The latest 4v4 guide dates from 2011 (and is the only one I can find after digging through several pages of Google search results).

Team games in LotV are therefore an uncharted territory. There are no established standard build orders, no concrete meta, no idea of what you should or shouldn't do. So far, I've been going by my experience in Warcraft 3 team games and DotA 2. It has served me well so far, but eventually, I hope that the community will establish a standard of play in team games.

Returning to My Roots

That's where this blog comes into play. I will be chronicling my adventures in SC2 team games here. What works, what doesn't work, what I tried, and what I plan to try. Eventually, I plan on writing a guide on how to play team games in SC2. Despite a complete lack of coverage about team games in SC2 websites, team players do exist. I exist. You exist. We exist.

After returning to my roots, Starcraft 2 is awesome once again.

"The drums! The drums! The drums! The neverending drumbeat! Open me, you human fool! Open the light and summon me and receive my majesty!"
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10686 Posts
April 07 2016 19:46 GMT
#2
Awesome man congrats, welcome back to your roots!
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
pebble444
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Italy2499 Posts
April 08 2016 08:14 GMT
#3
nice...

I' ve gone back to my roots too: started playing age of empires I . Some good times right here, so much history in the game.
As far as starcraft, i bought the game in 2001, not before i stopped playing momentarily civ2.
I play broodwar but not sc2. Its really fun to just play a ton of bgh games 3vs3 or 4vs4. Some weird shit always happens. I could not play that every time but once in a while its great fun. Good luck to you with going back to your roots!
"Awaken my Child, and embrace the Glory that is your Birthright"
Aron Times
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States312 Posts
April 08 2016 17:50 GMT
#4
On April 08 2016 04:46 GGzerG wrote:
Awesome man congrats, welcome back to your roots!

Thanks. I'm one more player playing Starcraft, one more viewer watchin Starcraft esports. Ironically, this happened by rejecting the main game mode played by TL.net.

On April 08 2016 17:14 pebble444 wrote:
nice...

I' ve gone back to my roots too: started playing age of empires I . Some good times right here, so much history in the game.
As far as starcraft, i bought the game in 2001, not before i stopped playing momentarily civ2.
I play broodwar but not sc2. Its really fun to just play a ton of bgh games 3vs3 or 4vs4. Some weird shit always happens. I could not play that every time but once in a while its great fun. Good luck to you with going back to your roots!


Well, one of the biggest problems with SC2 team games is that the game is badly-optimized. If you don't have a beefy system, Carriers can cause a lot of video lag because of the sheer amount of Interceptors on screen. I've seen many players just disconnect (possibly because they crashed) when large endgame team fights occur.

I can run on High settings in 1v1 or 2v2. In 3v3 and 4v4, things starts to slow down, but are still tolerable. I used to play back in an era where anything below 200ms ping was acceptable. Players with over 200 ping were called HPBs (high ping bastards), while those fortunate few who had godlike Internet connections were called LPBs (low ping bastards). I remember playing 1v1 games of various types with my friends through dial-up modems; I'd directly connect to his modem and we'd play 1v1 Starcraft from across the city!

*Studio audience gasps. There is a moment of silence and then a burst of cheers and applause.*

Playing team games has made me realize that Starcraft 2 is not a ded gaem. Don't get me wrong, we lost a ton of players due to Blizzard's questionable design decisions, but community stats only count 1v1 ranked players. The ranked 1v1 community is dwarfed by the unranked community, as evidenced by the report last month of coop being more popular than the ladder. The ranked and unranked community combined are themselves dwarfed by the greater Starcraft community who never venture out of singleplayer.
"The drums! The drums! The drums! The neverending drumbeat! Open me, you human fool! Open the light and summon me and receive my majesty!"
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 17m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko387
LamboSC2 187
ProTech125
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 43012
Calm 4000
Jaedong 1888
GuemChi 1338
EffOrt 884
Shuttle 841
Mini 742
Soulkey 521
Soma 465
Rush 409
[ Show more ]
firebathero 319
Snow 316
ZerO 225
BeSt 223
Zeus 154
Sharp 90
Hyun 78
BRAT_OK 78
yabsab 74
ggaemo 62
Barracks 52
Mong 50
Aegong 39
sorry 39
Killer 38
hero 36
soO 28
ToSsGirL 24
Sacsri 19
Terrorterran 18
Bale 17
scan(afreeca) 15
Shinee 12
JulyZerg 10
SilentControl 9
ajuk12(nOOB) 9
HiyA 5
Dota 2
qojqva2559
singsing2517
Gorgc2249
Dendi555
syndereN193
XcaliburYe137
420jenkins61
Counter-Strike
fl0m4167
zeus3692
olofmeister600
markeloff63
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor68
Other Games
hiko1011
B2W.Neo966
crisheroes559
DeMusliM251
Hui .200
Mew2King82
ArmadaUGS74
oskar62
ZerO(Twitch)13
MindelVK10
Organizations
StarCraft 2
WardiTV642
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 30
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2504
League of Legends
• Jankos2245
Other Games
• WagamamaTV244
Upcoming Events
OSC
1h 17m
Demi vs Mixu
Nicoract vs TBD
Babymarine vs MindelVK
ForJumy vs TBD
Shameless vs Percival
Replay Cast
9h 17m
Korean StarCraft League
1d 12h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 19h
WardiTV 2025
1d 21h
SC Evo League
1d 21h
BSL 21
2 days
Sziky vs OyAji
Gypsy vs eOnzErG
OSC
2 days
Solar vs Creator
ByuN vs Gerald
Percival vs Babymarine
Moja vs Krystianer
EnDerr vs ForJumy
sebesdes vs Nicoract
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV 2025
2 days
[ Show More ]
OSC
3 days
BSL 21
3 days
Bonyth vs StRyKeR
Tarson vs Dandy
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
StarCraft2.fi
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
WardiTV 2025
4 days
StarCraft2.fi
5 days
PiGosaur Monday
5 days
StarCraft2.fi
6 days
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
WardiTV 2025
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-30
RSL Revival: Season 3
Light HT

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
Slon Tour Season 2
Acropolis #4 - TS3
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
Kuram Kup
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.