EPTProgamers: Do Your Job - Page 9
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bypLy
757 Posts
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
edit: read through the thread damn some people are mad. saw some relevant comments from people like huk and snute. saw some tearful comments from other pros who clearly missed the point of the blog and then call it "pointless". pretty funny to see that, then again their results speak for that and then a bunch of people who decide to attack nony himself cuz they're mad cuz nony says how things are nony is a guy who has flamed me (well taht's a strong word actually, he was quite civil about it) when discussing wcs, since i'm basically the forum's biggest wcs whiner. but now i see this post and he is saying it how it is. agree or disagree with nony, he's a cool guy. though i agree with him with this post. 10/10 time for foreigners to start actually trying instead of finding excuses. we need our next stephano, i hope that wcs welfare doesn't kill off the slim chance we had at finding dat next king of foreigners ps (off topic): @artosis if you're reading this thread, i'm incog from your chat. hi! hope you're well! | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
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WhosQuany
Germany257 Posts
Toe-to-toe? No, not nearly as good. Nowhere close. I guess that's another thing we'll have to agree to disagree. If you want to bet your life on MLord beating Zest, TY, Dark, Solar, etc, when the conditions are fair and the Koreans actually care about winning, then I think you are nuts. It is nowhere near even. In a bo7, those Korean players win 95%+ of the time I think. Well TY didn`t do that good but the rest shows what Nony was trying to tell us...  http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Gold Series International 2016/All Star Challenge | ||
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Qwyn
United States2779 Posts
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On March 21 2016 18:09 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Yeah but that was also the era where they released games when they're done instead of when Activision wants to publish That's just not true. Lots of games were realeased with bugs and unfinished. Hidden and dangerous anyone ? Or Mankind ? The box edition never worked. They had to realease a "Mankind 1.5". And it was when we bought CDS and Boxes So no. Lots of games came out at the time had problems. It's just that internet made us spoiled kids. | ||
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JeffKim
Korea (South)36 Posts
On March 22 2016 09:23 NonY wrote: Nothing has to change. It's cultural and societal. I see a lot of glossing-over in the OP.I think you misread my post as I didn't say they brought no value whatsoever. There's something wrong with every non-Korean community to be so much worse at the game than the Koreans for so long. Something has to change culturally or mentally or something. I don't have the complete answer on how to build an environment that will yield players as good as Koreans. But I think my suggestions in this blog are some places to start. Providing interesting discussion on a forum is of such low value and importance relative to this... I'm sorry that it'd be something you miss, but hopefully the improvement of the games would be worth the diminishing of the forums. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15828 Posts
On March 28 2016 18:25 Qwyn wrote: There's a difference between dumb, clearly broken strategies that have occurred in the past and things that might be OP in the current meta.. that's your opinion. the next Bl/infestor / swarmhost /blink era could happen soon if nobody voices their opinion about the current metagame. | ||
MightyAtom
Korea (South)1897 Posts
On March 21 2016 02:00 Liquid`Drone wrote: Hey, I remember that you made this assertion before, more than 6 months ago. And as I replied then ; 'Also, jimmyjraynor, I really can't agree with your claim that Giyom's success was caused by his korean assimilation. I don't know when you started following competitive brood war, but Giyom was basically the best player in the world before he went to Korea. He won PGL season 4 and the Brood War World Championship in 1999, two of the absolutely biggest tournaments that year, and went to Korea in early 2000. Additionally, it's not like Korea was really dominant during this era anyway. I'd argue that in 1999, there were more top players outside Korea than inside Korea - this changes for sure in 2000 though, and might not have been true at the end of 99 either. Slayer won KBK in 2000 as well - this was an era where nonkorean players actually could compete with the Koreans. If the OSL Giyom won had had 50% koreans and 50% the best players from outside Korea, it easily could have been a nonkorean final. in fact Giyom is a funny example to use because you could just as well argue that his assimilation into Korean culture and learning the language is what caused his brood war downfall lol' The idea that Giyom became so good at brood war because he moved to Korea simply isn't true. It is a very different era though - and stating that a nonkorean in say, 2008, would have to move to korea if he hoped to become one of the best, that's fair enough, but the Giyom story doesn't support your assertion. hehe, whether you take this off thread or not, Liquid'Drone is 100% correct in everything he has said. While there is much to say about Giyom's mentality in 2003 where he had played possibility the best game ever for his 3rd place WCG, the second last sentence "'in fact Giyom is a funny example to use because you could just as well argue that his assimilation into Korean culture and learning the language is what caused his brood war downfall lol'" is actually a very true and concerning fact for many of us around Giyom at that time. I'm NOT saying that I disagree with your general point of assimilation etc, but Giyom isn't a good example to use when it comes to gain skill, that's the point I want to make here, he was in a class above, if he had stayed in Quebec and just flew in for tournaments, he may have ruled forever lol. I would genuinely say that he was probably the only one person who could have stopped the Juggernaut of Slayer Boxer, back in 2000 at the 1st WCG had he not been disqualified because he had an appointment at a variety show. ROFL. As someone who has personally known Giyom from early 1999, and lived with him for many years in Korea along with Elky, and was the tournament organizer for the country to country SCBW at the 1st WCG and actually saw him grow up over 17 years. Trust me, Liquid'Drone is absolutely correct. Hi Liquid'Drone ^^ But to the OP's point, the one thing Giyom never did was complain about the match up, map or balance issues. And this was something he did learn in Korea, he accepted how his mouse was, whatever keyboard he got and simply focused and played, - but again, he was a singular talent. I actually recall him saying this. So as an example: There is his pimpest play in 2003, found here: http://sclegacy.com/art/4-pp/269-pimpest-plays-2002 What a lot of kiddies don't know is that map was imbalanced towards a Zerg/Protoss match up and it was very well known, AND, LeeZerg does execute the build to as good as it gets and SHOULD have and WOULD have wiped out any other protoss gamer, Korean or otherwise during that game. And Giyom wins by basically defending against it - with pure skill and innovation (at the time) and - not able to actually have any other option as he can't go on a fully offensive because of the map and that he was under pressure the entire game literally non-stop. (I was at work when he called me to tell me about his win, it was a good day that day ^^) So if you know the background of the map, then you get why it was so pimpy. As a Korean, I am blown away by Giyom's level of focus in all things he choose to care about, as well as Elky's ability as well plus Elky's drive to do nothing but be better, and this ability to focus, is something that Koreans have as a basic trait - whether it's genetic or by nurture, it is something found in Korean competitors and so for very technical & focus oriented sports we generally excel in, see archery as an example. As far as the OP goes, I get the point he is trying to make about what the priorities should be as a matter of focus, not as a matter of each pro's intentions, as everyone's intention is to be better. But the question still begs, how to be better, and I'll say, that for everyone who says Koreans' can't be beat or on the other hand saying that if you get coaches etc then you can be as good as Koreans as it's just the set-up. It simply is not that simple, as Giyom generally did not practice hard or did it the Korean way, but in some ways you could say that Elky was more Koreans that Koreans were in some instances. *^^* There is of course some formulas to it, but what I've always said, its cool that Koreans are great at this game, but it would be cooler if we actually developed that game. In this way, the foreigners will always have one up on the Koreans - if that makes the foreigners feel any better (or worse keke!). | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28521 Posts
edit: oh jesus reading how I phrased myself when I was 18 is cringeworthy  | ||
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