• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 16:06
CET 22:06
KST 06:06
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book9Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info7herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14
Community News
Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker1PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar)9Weekly Cups (Jan 26-Feb 1): herO, Clem, ByuN, Classic win2RSL Season 4 announced for March-April7Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win3
StarCraft 2
General
Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Clem wins HomeStory Cup 28
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) WardiTV Mondays $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000 WardiTV Winter Championship 2026
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ? [A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 512 Overclocked The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth Mutation # 510 Safety Violation
Brood War
General
Gypsy to Korea BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates BW General Discussion Liquipedia.net NEEDS editors for Brood War
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Strategy
Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Megathread Diablo 2 thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread EVE Corporation Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Play, Watch, Drink: Esports …
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2252 users

A Live Recorded Score

Blogs > ImbaTosS
Post a Reply
ImbaTosS
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom1706 Posts
November 18 2015 14:16 GMT
#1
[image loading]


Composing The Wanderer


The opportunity to score this film came about a bit strangely. I got an email from a masters student at the London Film School saying that she needed a composer for her short film project, outlining the plot, and that it had to be ready within the next week. I had no idea how she had got hold of me, but I replied enthusiastically saying that I would really like to know more, and could be available for the task. She also included a phone number so I sent a text too since it seemed that time was of the essence, suggesting that we could meet and talk about it later that day if she was around. It made sense, since I moved to London to be available for scenarios just like this one. This all went down well, so we met for coffee, and chatted and discussed the film. It already seemed sure that I would be scoring it.

How did this happen?

This was an interesting turn of events. Finding a project has never been so nice! It usually involves searching, pitching and waiting, and none of these had happened this time. I wanted to know how this had happened so I asked. First off, it transpired that I had sent an email to the London Film School nearly a year before. I had only a received a “we will pass on your details” response at the time and nothing more, but had presumably ended up on some kind of list of available composers for the students. This had come round a year later when Franca, the director of this film, had needed somebody and messaged some composers from this list. I had been the fastest to respond, and the only one who had got in touch by phone as well as email. I was also the only one who suggested to meet. Naturally she was interested in somebody who really wanted to be involved, particularly after some previous bad experience with composers who communicated poorly and could in fact disappear entirely half-way through a score.

Luck had been on my side, but it had also been on the side of the other composers on that list. The rest was on me and through being genuine in my enthusiasm to score the film, being prompt in my communication, and having faith in my own ability to deliver what was needed, I had the opportunity to collaborate and to meet somebody new and interesting. Luck is only one piece of the whole puzzle, and each piece is necessary.

The Score

While I can't show you more than 30 seconds of the film at once due to copyright, here is a short clip showcasing some music.



Franca had been clear from the beginning on wanting the cello, and I thought this was a fine choice. It can be a very dark and moody instrument when it needs to be. Very evocative. This was exactly what the film needed to support it. The visual style served as a further pointer as I thought it would be able to support a quirky, slightly avante-garde sound. There's some moody piano in there too, and some cool piano textures which are made using granular synthesis; a process which I'm really keen on for texture effects which blend well with the overall tone. Since the whole film is just less than thirteen minutes including credits, there was relatively little music needed, using just one thematic idea. The film was also working well already- I didn't have to try and “fix” anything, only to work with what was there.

Working With a Cellist

I took the opportunity to record this with a live musician, since it was a small score with just the one lead instrument. I asked a good friend of mine who is assistant to a composer here in London and works with a lot of live musicians who would be his first choice for the job. The really cool thing about this is that I still went through the process of making a midi mockup for the drafting process, meaning I can show you the direct comparison between the synthesised mockup, and the score as played by a real cellist, the excellent Peter Gregson. This comparison is something which you very rarely get to hear, if at all. Listen below, it's well worth it!



Talk to me about that because in my opinion the difference is huge and the two are incomparable. I think this must be clear to anyone who hears the two side-by-side. I was so glad that I made this decision to get the music played for real because the result speaks so much better for the film, and for my own standards. You can hear each version individually here, for your own comparison.

+ Show Spoiler +






I learned plenty as well. It's great to hear how a player treats a score particularly in comparison to how it sounds when programmed; that's a very valuable experience which I intend to repeat as often as possible. Each time I'll get a stronger knowledge of how my score will ultimately sound. Working with real players is really the only way to get fully used to how they perform, and reaffirms that virtual instruments are not at all the same thing and ultimately don't sound the same. Some things didn't turn out quite as I had wanted or anticipated because of this lack of experience, but I am still a hundred times happier with the live recorded version than with the midi score.

Second important potentially embarrassing lesson is to get someone else to proofread the score! I went over it plenty of times before sending it to be recorded and there were still really bad mistakes in two or three places. Proofreading your own work is a bit rubbish and having someone else's eyes on it will work wonders. They'll see things when you're too used to it and have lost the ability to do so. If mistakes like this crept into an orchestral session, I'd have a real job on my hands.

You can have a look at the PDFs of the score here-

Cue 1 score and parts

Cue 2 score and parts

I had to work on making it really clear since this was a remote recording and I wouldn't be there to give instructions. Speed is also important since good players are invariably expensive, so it's best to get it right and wrapped up as quickly as possible.

As always I hope you enjoyed. Get talking to me and have a look at my social-y links below. They're fun!

Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/motekeatinge
Twitter: https://twitter.com/MoteKeatinge
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcOF4f_FVJzmiiYz29nGjUg
Website for more music: www.motekeatinge.co.uk

*****
EleGant[AoV]
Apom
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
France656 Posts
November 19 2015 00:06 GMT
#2
Most instructive blog post, 5/5.
endy
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Switzerland8970 Posts
November 19 2015 10:31 GMT
#3
wow congrats
ॐ
y0su
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Finland7871 Posts
November 19 2015 14:20 GMT
#4
Very cool! Congrats :D
JieXian
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Malaysia4677 Posts
November 19 2015 18:03 GMT
#5
the dream

and now you're back in your forte
Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for people to chat about writing and producing music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noD-bsOcxuU |
loginn
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
France815 Posts
November 20 2015 01:30 GMT
#6
There's a massive difference
Been playing the violin (classical) for 20 years and it just sounds weird that you can't hear the bow when listening to the midi version. You can clearly hear the real cello changing the pressure on the bow during the note and the midi veriosn sounds so flat because of this.
Stephano, Taking skill to the bank since IPL3. Also Lucifron and FBH
ImbaTosS
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom1706 Posts
November 20 2015 14:16 GMT
#7
On November 20 2015 10:30 loginn wrote:
There's a massive difference
Been playing the violin (classical) for 20 years and it just sounds weird that you can't hear the bow when listening to the midi version. You can clearly hear the real cello changing the pressure on the bow during the note and the midi veriosn sounds so flat because of this.

The flatness jumped out at me more than anything, I agree. The cellist has such fine control over the bow pressure for musical effect whereas there isn't a hint of that really in the midi performance. I really have no way to get that into the midi either, too many dynamic rises and falls would sound so weird, and I'd probably end up with phasing issues as the samples rapidly fade between different dynamic layers. Another huge problem.

20 years is a long time to be playing, do you play with an orchestra or any other ensemble?
EleGant[AoV]
ImbaTosS
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom1706 Posts
November 20 2015 14:28 GMT
#8
On November 20 2015 03:03 JieXian wrote:
the dream

and now you're back in your forte

Thanks man!

I listened to your track for the CS:GO video, I particularly liked the way the Act 2 music begins. It really feels American Revolution-y in a marching kind of way, that was really successful.

I would say that throughout a three minute piece, three distinct acts is too many and it loses cohesiveness. Have you done many exercises to strengthen your longer form thematic development? I know that's something which has really helped me- I struggled for a long time with theme development and it was hard to create longer structures using the same theme material.

Also, as an aside, the logo thing at the end is really cool in how it responds to the sound. How did you do that??
EleGant[AoV]
JieXian
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Malaysia4677 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-20 18:24:52
November 20 2015 18:09 GMT
#9
On November 20 2015 23:28 ImbaTosS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2015 03:03 JieXian wrote:
the dream

and now you're back in your forte

Thanks man!

I listened to your track for the CS:GO video, I particularly liked the way the Act 2 music begins. It really feels American Revolution-y in a marching kind of way, that was really successful.

I would say that throughout a three minute piece, three distinct acts is too many and it loses cohesiveness. Have you done many exercises to strengthen your longer form thematic development? I know that's something which has really helped me- I struggled for a long time with theme development and it was hard to create longer structures using the same theme material.

Also, as an aside, the logo thing at the end is really cool in how it responds to the sound. How did you do that??


Thanks!

Yes I do agree that 3 themes is a lot for such a short video, I did it because of I thought it was suitable for the director's plan

The plan was to have 3 acts

Act 1: Americans getting murdered – Americans usually don't do well
Act 2: American highlights – hope: 3 American teams have managed to qualify for this Dreamhack
Act 3: European highlights - The hard climb to the top, the challenge ahead


I personally can't think of a smooth way to do this while maintaining a contrast ie Act 1: sad, Act 2 hope, Act 3: the villain threatens the hope. I am very interested in your suggestions and ideas that I'm sure you already have in mind The most I could do, which I did, was to keep everything in the same key and in a similar chord progression.

Feels weird commenting on your blog and going off topic, feel free to head to my blog to continue if you want http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/497614-making-of-tls-hype-trailer-for-dreamhack-cluj-p1

I'm happy that you thought it was cool I done it using adobe after effects audio spectrum It's a trend in EDM music videos and I gave it my own twist



Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for people to chat about writing and producing music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noD-bsOcxuU |
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26238 Posts
November 20 2015 23:09 GMT
#10
Really cool and interesting blog there
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Ghost151
Profile Joined May 2008
United States290 Posts
November 21 2015 17:23 GMT
#11
Somewhere a while back around the time my cousin bought a violin, I remember reading something about how classical stringed instrument players are trained to automatically use vibrato on most notes, for exactly this reason; they do it so the notes don't sound flat and annoying and vary the dynamic actively for expressiveness (hence the stereotypical sawing "screech" sound of a bad violin player). One of those little things that no one ever talks about but you'd know it if you learned the instrument. It's pretty stark to hear the difference directly compared like this though, and it goes beyond just analog recording of the instrument vs. digital reproduction. The cellist is making a huge difference himself, and it's very interesting to hear it.

Also, "relatively little vibrato" = still quite a lot of vibrato? I guess I'm just conditioned to listening to guitars too much where any vibrato is pretty distinct, or the cellist was just making a judgement call since he would know better what it would sound like than me.

Neat stuff.
fuck art its a competition if you dont get pissed off when you lose you dont care enough - Idra, on the "art" of RTS games.
Peeano
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Netherlands5218 Posts
November 23 2015 12:52 GMT
#12
The sound of the real cello is much richer, but I don't think the midi is bad by any means.
I don't see you mention the acoustics of the room you're recording the instrument in, nor microphone impedance/placement/quality you're recording with. I think those 2 things matter a lot if you want to replace your, in my opinion, already okay midi file.

I'm going to use your blog as an outlet for a quick rant as I think it's fit here...
+ Show Spoiler +

I've been asked to give a piano concert at the end of December and I've been working on and off on translating (orchestral) music to piano. Luckily I already have most of the work done for me, but I'm trying to create something even more closer to the original. I pretty much have to get it done by this week so I can fully focus on practice, as it is a piece I'd like to play at my concert. Something that is really bothering me is that once I have finally figured out how I want to play a certain part on piano, I cannot recreate in midi close enough to what I'm playing. I really want to be able to listen to my re-arrangement, because it helps me tremendously with memorizing the interpretation I want to show at my concert. It's driving me nuts.
If only I could just record the essential parts live and then use those recordings to overwrite parts in my midi.
Ultimately I wanna make a video-recording at home after I finish the concert. Do you know of any 'cheap' quality microphones? My current digital camera has a really shitty microphone for recording. :\
FBH #1!
ImbaTosS
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom1706 Posts
November 23 2015 18:13 GMT
#13
On November 23 2015 21:52 Peeano wrote:
The sound of the real cello is much richer, but I don't think the midi is bad by any means.
I don't see you mention the acoustics of the room you're recording the instrument in, nor microphone impedance/placement/quality you're recording with. I think those 2 things matter a lot if you want to replace your, in my opinion, already okay midi file.

I'm going to use your blog as an outlet for a quick rant as I think it's fit here...
+ Show Spoiler +

I've been asked to give a piano concert at the end of December and I've been working on and off on translating (orchestral) music to piano. Luckily I already have most of the work done for me, but I'm trying to create something even more closer to the original. I pretty much have to get it done by this week so I can fully focus on practice, as it is a piece I'd like to play at my concert. Something that is really bothering me is that once I have finally figured out how I want to play a certain part on piano, I cannot recreate in midi close enough to what I'm playing. I really want to be able to listen to my re-arrangement, because it helps me tremendously with memorizing the interpretation I want to show at my concert. It's driving me nuts.
If only I could just record the essential parts live and then use those recordings to overwrite parts in my midi.
Ultimately I wanna make a video-recording at home after I finish the concert. Do you know of any 'cheap' quality microphones? My current digital camera has a really shitty microphone for recording. :\


I didn't mention the room because it was a remote recording that actually took place at the cellist's studio which I have no info about. Same goes for the mic. I do agree with you that it's not worth replacing a MIDI recording like this one with a poor quality recording, but anyone set up to offer remote sessions should be offering high quality raw recordings, in a sympathetically chosen room and a quality mic for the purpose. Peter Gregson who recorded this for me is a highly regarded session cellist in London, so I safely presumed that his setup would be of high quality before I booked him.

The best solution to your midi problem would be a stage piano with MIDI output recording directly into your DAW. I can see why you would be hesitant to do this given that you already have an actual piano, but there really isn't any other way to get truly human performance timing into MIDI aside from playing it in.

As far as recording goes, I've used a Zoom Q3 HD in the past for recording videos with good quality sound, and the audio results were genuinely impressive even closeup or at high volume. This was recording a metal band, not piano, but I think it would still give good results.
EleGant[AoV]
ImbaTosS
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom1706 Posts
November 23 2015 18:21 GMT
#14
On November 22 2015 02:23 Ghost151 wrote:
Somewhere a while back around the time my cousin bought a violin, I remember reading something about how classical stringed instrument players are trained to automatically use vibrato on most notes, for exactly this reason; they do it so the notes don't sound flat and annoying and vary the dynamic actively for expressiveness (hence the stereotypical sawing "screech" sound of a bad violin player). One of those little things that no one ever talks about but you'd know it if you learned the instrument. It's pretty stark to hear the difference directly compared like this though, and it goes beyond just analog recording of the instrument vs. digital reproduction. The cellist is making a huge difference himself, and it's very interesting to hear it.

Also, "relatively little vibrato" = still quite a lot of vibrato? I guess I'm just conditioned to listening to guitars too much where any vibrato is pretty distinct, or the cellist was just making a judgement call since he would know better what it would sound like than me.

Neat stuff.

I think there's a definite judgement call going on with the vibrato in the performance, but it could go a lot bigger than that. I'm also a long-time guitar player, and I hadn't thought of that bias! I have this terrible tendency to over-vibrato notes, and have to battle it often because, you're right, any vibrato on the electric guitar really comes through and has to be chosen tastefully. Ahh how my band-mates used to tell me off...

One of the first instruments that I actually learned properly was violin, but that's long enough ago now that I don't really have the instinct of a player any more, having been mainly a guitar player for the last 12 years at least.
EleGant[AoV]
loginn
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
France815 Posts
November 24 2015 16:06 GMT
#15
On November 20 2015 23:16 ImbaTosS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2015 10:30 loginn wrote:
There's a massive difference
Been playing the violin (classical) for 20 years and it just sounds weird that you can't hear the bow when listening to the midi version. You can clearly hear the real cello changing the pressure on the bow during the note and the midi veriosn sounds so flat because of this.

The flatness jumped out at me more than anything, I agree. The cellist has such fine control over the bow pressure for musical effect whereas there isn't a hint of that really in the midi performance. I really have no way to get that into the midi either, too many dynamic rises and falls would sound so weird, and I'd probably end up with phasing issues as the samples rapidly fade between different dynamic layers. Another huge problem.

20 years is a long time to be playing, do you play with an orchestra or any other ensemble?


I mostly played quartets once i graduated, but i'm no professionnal. Did you write anything for a quartet ? I'd love to hear it
Stephano, Taking skill to the bank since IPL3. Also Lucifron and FBH
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Monday Night Weeklies
17:00
#39
RotterdaM1074
TKL 450
IndyStarCraft 344
SteadfastSC224
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 1113
TKL 450
IndyStarCraft 321
SteadfastSC 204
MaxPax 159
UpATreeSC 144
ForJumy 8
PiGStarcraft2
StarCraft: Brood War
Mini 480
EffOrt 432
Hyuk 167
ggaemo 109
hero 74
Shuttle 21
soO 17
League of Legends
C9.Mang0134
Counter-Strike
fl0m2116
Other Games
Grubby4765
summit1g4417
FrodaN2295
Beastyqt921
Liquid`Hasu245
ArmadaUGS145
Mew2King83
Trikslyr80
elazer66
ROOTCatZ58
ZombieGrub28
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 219
• davetesta1
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• intothetv
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota277
League of Legends
• imaqtpie2959
• TFBlade1362
• Stunt424
Other Games
• Shiphtur393
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
2h 54m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
12h 54m
LiuLi Cup
13h 54m
Reynor vs Creator
Maru vs Lambo
PiGosaur Monday
1d 3h
Replay Cast
1d 11h
LiuLi Cup
1d 13h
Clem vs Rogue
SHIN vs Cyan
The PondCast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
LiuLi Cup
2 days
Scarlett vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs herO
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
3 days
LiuLi Cup
3 days
Serral vs Zoun
Cure vs Classic
RSL Revival
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
LiuLi Cup
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
LiuLi Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
LiuLi Cup
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
Rongyi Cup S3
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W8
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
WardiTV Winter 2026
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.