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I think i crossed the line this month and joined the elusive evil people that ruin the world by hoarding money, killing the enviroment, removing civil rights and all that other stuff that happens every day but noone seems to be actually responsible.
So yesterday i noticed that i am now actively contributing to the evil effort despite having no evil intentions, is this what happens to most people and the actual evil is in the system?
I know many of the super rich also arent actually evil like Bill Gates or the Google founder etc.
So, whats so evil about what i do?
I designed some systems for a bigger company that is testing their product for functionality, uneducated workers manually insert the product and then the electronics and mechanics get tested.
They have a shitty work, no sitting, constantly switching products and a boring screen full of techical measurrements they dont understand.
Now I upgrade the software because its good money and also i dont want lose future contracts by annoying them.
The update?
Track statisics about breaks and speed and DISPLAY A LIVE PERFORMANCE GRAPH ON THEIR WORKSTATION.
Yeah, the workers will now stare at a graph that tracks their speed and is evaluating them every second of their miserable day.
 
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
did you make a girl cry? did you all kill a beloved team during their very last team league match? did you deny a dream finals in las vegas while forcing your opponent to scream "imba imba imba" in agony? did you use an abominable composition to win a title? did you immediately fall into obscurity just to rub it in? did you beat someone in a qualifier while his grandma was on her deathbed?
all no? i give you 1 out of a possible 10 snipers.
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I know many of the super rich also arent actually evil like Bill Gates or the Google founder etc.
Wtf is this blog?
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A month ago, I wrote a feature that allowed a missile system to work on a multi-core chip.
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On October 06 2015 02:31 RoyGBiv_13 wrote:
A month ago, I wrote a feature that allowed a missile system to work on a multi-core chip.
Thus preventing hundreds of collateral deaths! :D. One can hope.
Anyway OP whoever decided that people should be subjected to live stats of their performance is to blame, not the person who did their job and made the thing. Gotta admit it's a bit fucked up.
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you are not evil but now you have a hand in it
welcome to system
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We pollute, we make sweatshop workers suffer for our clothing, we waste clean water, and do a laundry list of many bad things which we inadvertently do through our actions. You can't beat yourself over developing software that manages their efficiency when there's nothing inherently evil about it.
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I think part of quality of life is feeling good about the work you do. There are so many programmers who can feel happy and say 'I make things that make people's lives better.'
You might want to think of doing something which doesn't disgust you, since you are in an industry which gives you the luxury of choice. Someone else will do the job you're doing now, and the world won't be a better place, but at least you don't have to be part of the problem.
So many times I wonder how people can lose all their pride and contribute to creating something horrible. And sometimes the answer is just that they do it to survive, because they don't feel they have other options. But other times it's just something like this, you have an option, but it's inconvenient or the money is better. The money is better because lots of people don't want to do this kind of work.
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Evil does not lie in the execution, in the "what". Evil lies in the intent, the "why". You did no evil, brother.
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you are evil like Hank Scorpio w/o the panache
good enough for me!
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On October 06 2015 06:34 OtherWorld wrote:
Evil does not lie in the execution, in the "what". Evil lies in the intent, the "why". You did no evil, brother.
One could argue that evil lies very much in the what of things, and that intent is secondary to that. One must shoulder the burden of consequence regardless of good intentions...Very much intent vs. impact.
And if it lies in the what of things, then it is what the OP decides to do/not do about his guilty conscience that matters.
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On October 06 2015 08:47 Qwyn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2015 06:34 OtherWorld wrote:
Evil does not lie in the execution, in the "what". Evil lies in the intent, the "why". You did no evil, brother. One could argue that evil lies very much in the what of things, and that intent is secondary to that. One must shoulder the burden of consequence regardless of good intentions...Very much intent vs. impact. And if it lies in the what of things, then it is what the OP decides to do/not do about his guilty conscience that matters.
I was trying to cheer him up ):
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Once you have a family moral decisions about work get even harder. Love trumps ethics and you'll stretch your morals in order to maintain a stable income for your kids. People don't set out to be evil, most just end up prioritizing those closest to them over strangers.
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you are a very thoughtful person.
have you ever read Hannah Arendt?
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On October 06 2015 02:45 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2015 02:31 RoyGBiv_13 wrote:
A month ago, I wrote a feature that allowed a missile system to work on a multi-core chip. Anyway OP whoever decided that people should be subjected to live stats of their performance is to blame, not the person who did their job and made the thing. Gotta admit it's a bit fucked up.
So by this logic you can't blame someone for building torture devices? Just doing your job does not absolve you of what is done with your work.
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On October 08 2015 11:39 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2015 02:45 Djzapz wrote:On October 06 2015 02:31 RoyGBiv_13 wrote:
A month ago, I wrote a feature that allowed a missile system to work on a multi-core chip. Anyway OP whoever decided that people should be subjected to live stats of their performance is to blame, not the person who did their job and made the thing. Gotta admit it's a bit fucked up. So by this logic you can't blame someone for building torture devices? Just doing your job does not absolve you of what is done with your work.
Says the man using a computer that is the result of the labor of hundreds of sweatshop workers. That said, maybe you're right.
Still, I think you can't let those things weigh on your conscience too much because it'll be bad for you. We're all guilty of this. Our extravagant lifestyles are afforded by the misery of others. Whether you indirectly make life a living hell for people by allowing your boss to monitor human beings like cattle, or you buy an iPhone built with the blood and tears of people who's lives you could turn around with literally a week's worth of your wage, we're all doing the selfish thing because it's normal... hell, it's valorized. My engineer friend is a superstar in his firm for having designed a machine that'll almost certainly lead to 50-ish layoffs over the next few years in a local enterprise.
In an odd and unpredictable twist, this post ends with the staggering declaration that we're all kind of evil. And perhaps what separates OP from actually being "evil" is that he feels guilt. It's just about the most courageous thing a person will do, these days. Feel guilt, then retreat to a comfortable state of ambivalence while doing nothing about it. It's what I do sometimes.
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Do you feel it would be possible to act courageously? What would it look like?
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On October 06 2015 01:18 lichter wrote:
did you deny a dream finals in las vegas while forcing your opponent to scream "imba imba imba" in agony?
Oh man that still hurts...RIP Ryung 
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On October 08 2015 12:27 notesfromunderground wrote:
Do you feel it would be possible to act courageously? What would it look like?
I don't think that very many people would think that my idea of "courage" in the face of these kinds injustice is very workable, and nor do I. I myself believe that we're at the point where the benefits of "neo-imperialism" (which is not a term that I like) are too deeply ingrained in our society to do anything about it.
How could OP be courageous, he had to do a job, knowing that if he didn't do what he was told he'd likely get fired and the job would get done anyway because they'd hire somebody else to get it done. There is nothing for him to gain, and much for him to lose. Living by your own moral standards is actually pretty much impossible because you don't even get the satisfaction that comes from taking a stance and winning a battle. You can never win. If you're morally opposed to what's essentially slave labor, if you don't like pollution, but if you forfeit your phone and if you forfeit your car, it makes no difference in the world but you may be severely socially impaired. You like coffee, but even that is an inhumane mess of a business. Not all sectors of the economy are equally exploitative, but how can you avoid it making transactions which perpetuate a cycle of exploitation of certain people?
So I don't know what we even do that doesn't completely fuck other people. A person with courage is someone crazy enough to boycott exploitative practices at great detriment to themselves. I don't think this kind of insane dedication makes much sense. I personally wish we'd collectively decide to pay more for stuff to afford foreign workers adequate wages for now. And progressively go up to living wages, until they're preferably no longer under our boot. All that is moot though, because collective decisions don't happen, and individual courage is insane and pointless (though symbolic and pretty great actually).
I'm not happy at all with my ramblings, I feel like my thoughts are not expressed clearly and I think I'd normally just delete this and try writing from the beginning tomorrow. But fuck it.
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On October 08 2015 12:19 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2015 11:39 Scarecrow wrote:On October 06 2015 02:45 Djzapz wrote:On October 06 2015 02:31 RoyGBiv_13 wrote:
A month ago, I wrote a feature that allowed a missile system to work on a multi-core chip. Anyway OP whoever decided that people should be subjected to live stats of their performance is to blame, not the person who did their job and made the thing. Gotta admit it's a bit fucked up. So by this logic you can't blame someone for building torture devices? Just doing your job does not absolve you of what is done with your work. Feel guilt, then retreat to a comfortable state of ambivalence while doing nothing about it.
Nailed it here. Agreed with most of what you said, I believe we're all fairly 'evil' and just choose to make excuses or not think about it. We try not to think about the system we're perpetuating, partly because: it's so normalized; we feel powerless and we'd only hurt ourselves by trying to swim against the mainstream.
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Look at it, from a positive point of view. Atleast you're not removing their jobs all together... 
I program and automate things, so that certain jobs get obsolete, am I evil? I don't think so, but using the same view that you have, I would have to call myself evil.. Doesn't matter in which industry you are.
The statistics you mention may as well be a functional requirement and it will be done with or without you. The world is a shitty place (unfortunately), draw a line for yourself somewhere and try to not cross it.
If you think you're crossing a line, then quit.
A month ago, I wrote a feature that allowed a missile system to work on a multi-core chip.
For example this is the line for me, depending on what type of system etc etc
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I'd instantly drop down my working pace if there was a computer tracking my work, so that instead of boss getting mad when my speed lowers, he would be happy when I'd speed things up.
Being one of the most productive and most capable employees can be pain in the ass, since you will get more responsibility, you need to be in the most depanding projects and you get the most shit thrown up on you or your team fuck up. Once you show how good you are, then your expected to be that good all the time.
Unless your not happy to be just another regular employee, don't give your best shot.
edit: and no, doing your work when feeding your family and yourself depends on it, is not evil. It is evil to be greedy bastard and wanting better results (income growth) despite the fact that you already have enough for a normal lifetime for yourself and for your kids.
Demanding better results from emplyees with their cost and not caring about the nature and environment are evil. That evil is called capitalism. And no, I am not a communist.
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This thread is depressing.
On October 06 2015 08:47 Qwyn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2015 06:34 OtherWorld wrote:
Evil does not lie in the execution, in the "what". Evil lies in the intent, the "why". You did no evil, brother. One could argue that evil lies very much in the what of things, and that intent is secondary to that. One must shoulder the burden of consequence regardless of good intentions...Very much intent vs. impact. And if it lies in the what of things, then it is what the OP decides to do/not do about his guilty conscience that matters.
I think Qwyn put this very well although I do have something to add on.
Intentions matter in that they're one of the driving forces behind the actions that one takes. Presumably before you try to do anything there is an intention behind it so it's not like intentions don't matter at all but they do need to be grounded in what works.
Worrying too much about the bigger issues around a point like this won't really help you, it's just overwhelming, there is no solution to this direct situation that's going to fix the worlds problems. If I were in your situation I'd be more concerned about the kind of example I'd want to be, this is especially relevant to those starting/supporting a family. You don't have to try and solve all the worlds problems, but at the very least you can try to head in a better direction.
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I think it matters a lot
don't succumb to the temptation to rationalize your implication in the banality of evil
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we all contribute to evil in one way or another, it's all a means to an end. most of us don't do it intentionally and it won't be good for us as individuals nor as a race if we are always feeling bad about these things. if it bugs you that much, try toget some other projects or something. just know that you aren't alone in this sentiment
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EPT
