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Hey guys,
unless I absolutely shat the linens, I'll be graduating with a useless BA and 5.000 Euro student debt this fall. I have a 1,3-1,7 average (depending on the result of my thesis), meaning I'm elligible for a Master's programme, but I don't think that appeals to me.
I'm getting up there in age, and I've had countless jobs, but I never enjoyed doing anything for more than a year. I'm a trained mason (bricklayer), I worked as an IT technician for the Bundeswehr, I worked as a baker for 2*6 months, I did bookkeeping for a dentist, I had countless office jobs and the last year I've supported myself by being a street- / pub musician.
So my CV is an absolute mess.
Now I want to turn over a new leaf and begin a proper career, in spite of my relatively advanced age. I really want to commit to a proper career, meaning to get a degree, work in the same field, put most of my time and energy into one particular subject.
I'm too dumb to become a scientist and too lazy / squeamish to become a doctor, but I'm pretty good with maths, physics and chemistry and okay with computers. My dream job would involve not being tied to one place at a time for too long, or ideally work from home.
My plan for the next year is to study online at a public university whilst working part time and paying off a good chunk of my student debt. I have a job offer for 20h / week in education, so I don't have to worry about that at least.
So here's where you come in:
What career do you have?
What exactly do you love - like - dislike about it?
How competitive do you think your field is?
If you're from Germany, or if you are an electrical, structual or software engineer, your reply is especially appreciated.
I have until July 15th to enrol, so hit me.
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I'm a software engineer at Microsoft developing security features. This job requires skills in both software engineering and penetration testing aka computer hacking. I work on a team with some of the best computer hackers in the world. What I basically do is develop security features to be as reliable and hack proof as possible, and the penetration testers try to take it down, and we repeat until we have something really solid to ship to customers.
Software security is a field that requires a very high degree of technical skill, but once you reach that bar, getting a job should be easy. Security software engineers are in very high demand right now. It's only recently that companies have realized the importance of security, after Sony got hacked countless times, so everywhere is trying to hire security experts like crazy.
Being a penetration tester is actually a very interesting job in that you are basically playing a very open ended puzzle game. If you are someone who likes to break into people's houses, or get free soda from vending machines, then this is the perfect job for you. One way some penetration testers work is by solely making money off bug bounties. Most tech companies offer large rewards for anyone who finds bugs in their code, and if you are good at finding bugs, then you can make a lot just sitting at home. On the higher end, you can make like $60k from a single bug. You know those ads where single moms make $30k a month sitting at home? I would imagine this is probably what they do.
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I´m not really the kind of peson you´re looking for, but I work with people that probably are. I work for an IT service provider and what you´re decribing sounds alot like the job our database engineers do.
They usually are trained as "Fachinformatiker für Anwendungsentwicklung". They work in international projects, meaning they are basicaly on duty 24/7, but mostly from home. You would need to to be good with sql and scripting languages. I´d say it´s quite a competitive field, but if you are good, companies will look for you.
Looking for a company that is listed as a oracle partner can be good place to start. Where in Germany do you live?
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Heidelberg, Baden-Württemberg.
@ Chairman Ray:
That sounds really interesting, but since you don't become a cyber security expert over night, the field might be oversaturated once I have the basics down. Still, that's a point in favour of studying software engineering.
Your job sounds balls, by the way.
Vega:
I was asking about how competitive these fields are not because I want to slack off or assume I'll suck at my job, but because I'm basically eight years older than people I would be studying with, which is a rather large handycap.
Another point for software engineering.
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To be honest you should go study in Switzerland. Economy is doing fine there, it's right next to Germany, they even speak almost the same language.
Structural Engineers are lacking in Switzerland so you find a job in no time. Salaries start at 80k€ if you have a masters degree. If you're not looking to study for that long, you can get a job as a draftsman in civil engineering with less diplomas.
I can tell you more about the job if you're interested.
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I would keep studying.
I studied until 27 years old, and it ended up serving me a lot; I have a much better job than the people I had around me when I was 22 and who went into the job market straight away. My career has nothing to do with yours (I'm a classical musician) so my experience has little value and I can't give you any other advice, but just invest, and investing at our stage of life usually means studying.
My two cents 
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I don't really have a career as such yet so I'm not the kind of person you are looking for. However, here is my opinion anyway. I also graduated with a useless BA (and more than 4x as much debt as you) a few years ago. After that I spent a year doing shitty jobs I hated, and then I managed to get on a Computer Science masters degree course. I now have an MSc in Computer Science and a set of skills that should allow me to get a variety of junior software development type jobs.
I haven't got round to starting my career yet because I'm off doing other things at the moment, but I think doing this MSc in Computer Science was one of the best decisions I ever made. After I graduated I started getting emails and calls from recruiters offering me software development positions. I don't even know how they got my CV. My older brother had a similar experience after finishing his degree in Electronic Engineering; he got headhunted by some recruiter and got a pretty good job straight out of university.
Being a software engineer/developer of some kind would allow you to to work from home or travel I suppose if you got the right kind of job or managed to get into freelance work.
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On July 03 2015 18:49 Chairman Ray wrote:
I'm a software engineer at Microsoft developing security features. This job requires skills in both software engineering and penetration testing aka computer hacking. I work on a team with some of the best computer hackers in the world. What I basically do is develop security features to be as reliable and hack proof as possible, and the penetration testers try to take it down, and we repeat until we have something really solid to ship to customers.
Software security is a field that requires a very high degree of technical skill, but once you reach that bar, getting a job should be easy. Security software engineers are in very high demand right now. It's only recently that companies have realized the importance of security, after Sony got hacked countless times, so everywhere is trying to hire security experts like crazy.
Being a penetration tester is actually a very interesting job in that you are basically playing a very open ended puzzle game. If you are someone who likes to break into people's houses, or get free soda from vending machines, then this is the perfect job for you. One way some penetration testers work is by solely making money off bug bounties. Most tech companies offer large rewards for anyone who finds bugs in their code, and if you are good at finding bugs, then you can make a lot just sitting at home. On the higher end, you can make like $60k from a single bug. You know those ads where single moms make $30k a month sitting at home? I would imagine this is probably what they do.
Hi mami
I'm a penetration tester
how cool is that?
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On July 03 2015 21:08 mooose wrote:
I don't really have a career as such yet so I'm not the kind of person you are looking for. However, here is my opinion anyway. I also graduated with a useless BA (and more than 4x as much debt as you) a few years ago. After that I spent a year doing shitty jobs I hated, and then I managed to get on a Computer Science masters degree course. I now have an MSc in Computer Science and a set of skills that should allow me to get a variety of junior software development type jobs.
What BA did you get that was useless, yet at the same time taught you what you needed to know to get into a Master's course in Computer Science?
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Take the part time job in education imo, and if you can work for a private or religious institution so you don't have to deal with district level administration. You will make less money than if you were doing the same job for some corporation but your job security will be better and promotions will come easier. I'm not sure about Germany but in the US IT/communications/administrative jobs in education are in demand. Once you're "in" it will be very easy to find work anywhere.
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Oh I'm definitely taking the job, the question is what I'll be studying whilst doing it.
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i make database software primarily using microsoft tools.
i am an independent consultant/contractor.
as part of that
i built a custom report writer that allows "power users" to build their own reports without requiring a skilled programmer guy.
i made a deal with a giant vendor to sell my report writer and i am constantly adding new features to it.
i know a project manager with 30+ years experience who specializes in internationalizing existing applications. He constantly feeds me new work.
i started programming Visual Foxpro applications when i was 12 in 1999 and i helped out with setting up presentations for Visual Foxpro lectures and teaching sessions (basic boring grunt work but at the time i thought it was awesome).
i got a 4 year degree in software engineering from the best tech school in Canada
its pretty tough for others to follow my career path because i started so young.
i don't find my field very competitive at all. There are very few coders who can see the forest through the trees. So they can build software that works great at a microscopic level , but does a mediocre job of dealing with issues the user faces.
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On July 03 2015 17:22 SixStrings wrote:
Hey guys,
unless I absolutely shat the linens, I'll be graduating with a useless BA and 5.000 Euro student debt this fall. I have a 1,3-1,7 average (depending on the result of my thesis), meaning I'm elligible for a Master's programme, but I don't think that appeals to me.
I'm getting up there in age, and I've had countless jobs, but I never enjoyed doing anything for more than a year. I'm a trained mason (bricklayer), I worked as an IT technician for the Bundeswehr, I worked as a baker for 2*6 months, I did bookkeeping for a dentist, I had countless office jobs and the last year I've supported myself by being a street- / pub musician.
So my CV is an absolute mess.
Now I want to turn over a new leaf and begin a proper career, in spite of my relatively advanced age. I really want to commit to a proper career, meaning to get a degree, work in the same field, put most of my time and energy into one particular subject.
I'm too dumb to become a scientist and too lazy / squeamish to become a doctor, but I'm pretty good with maths, physics and chemistry and okay with computers. My dream job would involve not being tied to one place at a time for too long, or ideally work from home.
My plan for the next year is to study online at a public university whilst working part time and paying off a good chunk of my student debt. I have a job offer for 20h / week in education, so I don't have to worry about that at least.
So here's where you come in:
What career do you have?
What exactly do you love - like - dislike about it?
How competitive do you think your field is?
If you're from Germany, or if you are an electrical, structual or software engineer, your reply is especially appreciated.
I have until July 15th to enrol, so hit me.
I'm a software developer / tester.
I get to utilize my ability to perceive unusual situations and my 20+ years of computer experience. The downside is that I'm typically tied to my desk for hours at a time and have to put in extra effort to hit deadlines. This applies to testing and development.
Software Development is pretty competitive, but most developers who think they're good developers (much like most poker players) are pretty awful at what they do. If you have a good understanding of math and logic, I would recommend software development since it's basically... all math and logic.
Software Testing however is competitive but in a different way. So I don't rant, let's just say that Testing does not pay well enough nor does any company that's not a giant corporation give Testing the resources it needs to get it's job done correctly.
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On July 03 2015 18:49 Chairman Ray wrote:
I'm a software engineer at Microsoft developing security features. This job requires skills in both software engineering and penetration testing aka computer hacking. I work on a team with some of the best computer hackers in the world. What I basically do is develop security features to be as reliable and hack proof as possible, and the penetration testers try to take it down, and we repeat until we have something really solid to ship to customers.
Software security is a field that requires a very high degree of technical skill, but once you reach that bar, getting a job should be easy. Security software engineers are in very high demand right now. It's only recently that companies have realized the importance of security, after Sony got hacked countless times, so everywhere is trying to hire security experts like crazy.
Being a penetration tester is actually a very interesting job in that you are basically playing a very open ended puzzle game. If you are someone who likes to break into people's houses, or get free soda from vending machines, then this is the perfect job for you. One way some penetration testers work is by solely making money off bug bounties. Most tech companies offer large rewards for anyone who finds bugs in their code, and if you are good at finding bugs, then you can make a lot just sitting at home. On the higher end, you can make like $60k from a single bug. You know those ads where single moms make $30k a month sitting at home? I would imagine this is probably what they do.
Penetration testing sounds like a lot of fun. The company I work for had a penetration test done and we spent half a day in development discussing various tactics each of us would use. Of course, we're not professionals at all in terms of penetration testing, but it was an interesting discussion none-the-less.
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Full time web developer here. I think it'll hit all your requirements but like anything else I think it's best if you know you enjoy it.
Have you considered a career in going on weird dates an blogging about them?
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On July 03 2015 23:39 obesechicken13 wrote:
Full time web developer here. I think it'll hit all your requirements but like anything else I think it's best if you know you enjoy it.
Have you considered a career in going on weird dates an blogging about them?
No, but the reason I'm looking for a career is because I want to make lots of money before my hair falls out, so I can continue going on weird dates.
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I would just say that finding people and a work environment you like is more important than the field.
Do you like working under pressure and performing? Finance and purchasing tend to fit. Though there are plenty of analysis positions.
Do you like problem solving and working/leading projects? Engineer. Computer, machining, logistics (a topic people often forget about), anything at all with that title.
Do you like working with people and improving them and the work they do while making some decisions. Management.
Those are the ones I know about from what I do work with in the Engineer sphere.
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the favourite part of my job is going into a new customer that has haphazard, poorly designed business processes and improving things.
re-engineering many of the processes from the ground up and turning an organizational weakness into a strength.
and seeing all the happy users being able to focus more time and energy on their job function rather than jumping over stupid technical hurdles created by poor business processes.
so i'd say business process re-engineering is the most rewarding aspect of my profession.
once this solid foundation is in place the organization is in the position to put in place some kind of ERP system.
being an engineer and all i don't get that abstract.. i really stick to the ground level stuff... no fancy shmancy ERP work for me
in order for me to do my job i need a really good Project Manager above me to cut through all the organization politics and false roadblocks created by turf protectors and middle management empire builders.
the project manager i work under (most of the time) has an international reputation and is an acclaimed author and so the weight of these accomplishments really helps bulldoze through the bullshit.
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I'm a (IT) business analyst with Accenture (management/technology consulting company) working on the software development side.
Its great because I love technology and computers but I'm not very good (nor do I enjoy) the very technical side like programming. I came from studying computer engineering and then I switched into business which is where I got my bachelors degree. We work in project teams with a variety of people that range from very business-y (functional) to very technical. Basically individuals within my role handle all the client interactions, understanding the client's business model and needs, working with them to figure out their AS-IS and where they want to be (from a business and systems perspective) and gathering requirements for what that To-Be system looks like. We do all the functional designs (UIs, data modeling etc.) and the more technical people on the team handle the things like security, technical architecture, etc. After the designs are approved, the technical folks then build the application/system and we work on figuring out how to test all the features/requirements that were decided on and making sure the client gets what they paid for.
If you know what the software development life cycle (SDLC) is, we basically go through that from project to project.
I love my job because every project is different so I'm never stuck doing the same thing. Every project also introduces new and different types of challenges which help me grow and continue to learn (not stuck). I'm someone who enjoys new and being pushed to continue to grow and develop and this environment helps with that.
I love technology and we need to understand enough about it in order to work well with the developers/technical folks and make good calls with the client. But since I'm not very skilled at the technical side, I don't need to do the actual programming but I still have a role within software delivery. My skills lie with understanding the client's business process, business model, and so I get to work between getting them the right/correct technical solution to meet their business/functional needs.
Because we are a technology firm, we heavily leverage technology to work, so things like working remote and working from home are common. There are people from our team who are work purely remote and only fly in for the super important events (system implementation or project kickoff).
What's also good is that you can play to your strengths. If you are more technical, you can pick up focus on the more technical side, and if you are more business minded, you can focus on that instead. The job market (not sure about Germany) in Canada is great and I assume it will continue to grow as more and more companies need new systems to improve margins and efficiencies and computers are handling ever increasing amounts of work. You'll never grow bored as your role can also transition into development (focus/study on more technical stuff), project management, sales, etc.
There's not much I dislike tbh, its basically my dream job. I guess depending on your company type there may be more dislikes? Since I work consulting, lots of travel can be both a pro and a con depending on your family status, life goals, etc. Also the client comes before anything so if we can't meet a deadline we work 60+hr weeks in order to hit it. But that usually doesn't happen as long as your project manager is good at managing risks and the schedule. You need to push yourself to keep growing and adapting which is an absolute requirement for any technology type job (and is a pro for me) but that can be a con for people who don't are not good at adapting/learning new things.
Competitiveness... not too competitive due to the growing market and different ways you can specialize.
Examples: Specializations can come in many different ways
Specialize in industry (Oil and gas vs finance vs government vs agriculture)
Specialize in role (business analyst, system analyst, project management, sales, etc)
Specialize in technology type (SAP, vs oracle, vs .NET, etc)
Specialize in technology area (Databases, business intelligence (data warehousing), general application development, security)
Ways of entry into the field (in terms of study):
Comp sci - have strong technical background, pick up the business skills/knowledge on the job
Business - have strong business background, pick up the technical skills/knowledge through self study and on the job training
Let me know if you have any questions and hope this helps!
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On July 04 2015 01:19 joshie0808 wrote:
Competitiveness... not too competitive due to the growing market and different ways you can specialize.
if you're in southern ontario a lot hinges on how hot the economy is in New York.
seeing software engineers leave 1 by 1 for NY makes a lot of IT shops like a season of Survivor.
and it forces places to bring in lone wolf gun-slingers like me.
and then this allows guys like me to crank up their rates...which in turn forces up salaries of employees.
as long as New York stays hot working in southern ontario is a dream come true.
there is opportunity in anarchy
i just hope the Canadian dollar keeps on falling.
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EPT
