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Making peace with your failures

Blogs > ShoCkSC2
Post a Reply
ShoCkSC2
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
Germany340 Posts
February 12 2015 22:09 GMT
#1
Hey guys,
just recently I had discovered this for myself and I thought I might shoot a video on it as its something that I find really important.

I've always been a guy that has been really hard on himself so if you are too, this might help you as well.

Understand that this is not a motivation to excuse all of your actions, this is totally different.



ShoCk

**
NaNiwa l facebook/shocksc2 l @shocksc2 l twitch.tv/shocksc2 l Grandmaster Protoss Player
revalence123
Profile Blog Joined April 2014
United States102 Posts
February 13 2015 05:31 GMT
#2
Really nice video man, well put.
nunez
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway4003 Posts
February 14 2015 12:58 GMT
#3
through my extensive experience embarassing myself playing zerg on the SC2 ladder, i too have been enlightened, and am in a position to dish out deep insights into the human condition, if i so choose.
conspired against by a confederacy of dunces.
radscorpion9
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada2252 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-14 17:44:34
February 14 2015 17:37 GMT
#4
On February 14 2015 21:58 nunez wrote:
through my extensive experience embarassing myself playing zerg on the SC2 ladder, i too have been enlightened, and am in a position to dish out deep insights into the human condition, if i so choose.


You made me laugh out loud for real . All I know is after getting cheesed many times and having no reasonable way to predict it without putting a zergling in the one exact corner of the map where they were proxying something, I realized the game was hopeless for real strategy. I thought maybe it was the case that I just wasn't good enough, but then when I tune into pro gamers playing on stream or in tournaments, I see them getting cheesed all the same. Even in the SC2 global tournament, in the final, SOS beat his opponent (I think three times?) by building a gateway in his opponent's main.

That and I didn't have the 200 apm where people spam things endlessly, so I can't generate enough units as the other guy. So there's an actual ceiling where your strategy doesn't matter but your ability to press buttons fast enough does. Which is exactly what filterSC the former masters player who taught people how to play sc2 on youtube, told everyone. You can get to diamond through pure macro, no strategy. Just make a ton of marines and a-move - you don't even need to tell them how to attack, just click on the minimap where your opponent's base is. He did get to diamond doing precisely that.

So I think that's the value of failure to me, it teaches you that a game is not what you think it is, and you can move on. And I have been happy ever since. On a side note I'm glad other popular streamers like day 9 have moved on from sc2, now I can see content from some other games (mostly hearthstone but thats ok; sure there's luck but there's also a lot of skill as we can see from the regular legendary players with each coming season).
KingAlphard
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
Italy1705 Posts
February 14 2015 22:48 GMT
#5
On February 15 2015 02:37 radscorpion9 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2015 21:58 nunez wrote:
through my extensive experience embarassing myself playing zerg on the SC2 ladder, i too have been enlightened, and am in a position to dish out deep insights into the human condition, if i so choose.


You made me laugh out loud for real . All I know is after getting cheesed many times and having no reasonable way to predict it without putting a zergling in the one exact corner of the map where they were proxying something, I realized the game was hopeless for real strategy. I thought maybe it was the case that I just wasn't good enough, but then when I tune into pro gamers playing on stream or in tournaments, I see them getting cheesed all the same. Even in the SC2 global tournament, in the final, SOS beat his opponent (I think three times?) by building a gateway in his opponent's main.

That and I didn't have the 200 apm where people spam things endlessly, so I can't generate enough units as the other guy. So there's an actual ceiling where your strategy doesn't matter but your ability to press buttons fast enough does. Which is exactly what filterSC the former masters player who taught people how to play sc2 on youtube, told everyone. You can get to diamond through pure macro, no strategy. Just make a ton of marines and a-move - you don't even need to tell them how to attack, just click on the minimap where your opponent's base is. He did get to diamond doing precisely that.

So I think that's the value of failure to me, it teaches you that a game is not what you think it is, and you can move on. And I have been happy ever since. On a side note I'm glad other popular streamers like day 9 have moved on from sc2, now I can see content from some other games (mostly hearthstone but thats ok; sure there's luck but there's also a lot of skill as we can see from the regular legendary players with each coming season).



If you download replays from IEM or other tournaments you will see that top koreans aren't that insanely fast, they often have about the same EPMs that an average high master/ gm league player can achieve. It was actually a bit underwhelming when I first noticed this.
Multitasking isn't nearly as important as people think in SC2. The difference between an amateur and a top korean is mostly about decision making and micro.

If you're high master+ you can get to diamond by doing literally anything, the fact that you can do it through pure macro doesn't mean anything. You can also get to diamond for the first time by amoving marines, but it will take you much longer than if you played normally.

Obviously it depends a lot on your playstyle. If you watch Innovation, you might not see a lot of strategy. But if you watch sOs, it's a completely different thing. At least, I feel like I use strategy a lot in my ladder games and that allows me to beat players I wouldn't be able to beat in a straight up macro game.

Regarding cheese: it's strategy. You can't say that sc2 has no strategy involved, and then complain that you lose because people surprise you with cheesy strategies and that you can't win every game just because you have better mechanics than your opponents. Naturally, there's some luck involved in these situations. But sometimes a little bit of luck involved isn't that bad. The game would be a bit boring if the stronger player always won.


Cascade
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Australia5405 Posts
February 16 2015 07:34 GMT
#6
On February 15 2015 07:48 KingAlphard wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2015 02:37 radscorpion9 wrote:
On February 14 2015 21:58 nunez wrote:
through my extensive experience embarassing myself playing zerg on the SC2 ladder, i too have been enlightened, and am in a position to dish out deep insights into the human condition, if i so choose.


You made me laugh out loud for real . All I know is after getting cheesed many times and having no reasonable way to predict it without putting a zergling in the one exact corner of the map where they were proxying something, I realized the game was hopeless for real strategy. I thought maybe it was the case that I just wasn't good enough, but then when I tune into pro gamers playing on stream or in tournaments, I see them getting cheesed all the same. Even in the SC2 global tournament, in the final, SOS beat his opponent (I think three times?) by building a gateway in his opponent's main.

That and I didn't have the 200 apm where people spam things endlessly, so I can't generate enough units as the other guy. So there's an actual ceiling where your strategy doesn't matter but your ability to press buttons fast enough does. Which is exactly what filterSC the former masters player who taught people how to play sc2 on youtube, told everyone. You can get to diamond through pure macro, no strategy. Just make a ton of marines and a-move - you don't even need to tell them how to attack, just click on the minimap where your opponent's base is. He did get to diamond doing precisely that.

So I think that's the value of failure to me, it teaches you that a game is not what you think it is, and you can move on. And I have been happy ever since. On a side note I'm glad other popular streamers like day 9 have moved on from sc2, now I can see content from some other games (mostly hearthstone but thats ok; sure there's luck but there's also a lot of skill as we can see from the regular legendary players with each coming season).



If you download replays from IEM or other tournaments you will see that top koreans aren't that insanely fast, they often have about the same EPMs that an average high master/ gm league player can achieve. It was actually a bit underwhelming when I first noticed this.
Multitasking isn't nearly as important as people think in SC2. The difference between an amateur and a top korean is mostly about decision making and micro.

If you're high master+ you can get to diamond by doing literally anything, the fact that you can do it through pure macro doesn't mean anything. You can also get to diamond for the first time by amoving marines, but it will take you much longer than if you played normally.

Obviously it depends a lot on your playstyle. If you watch Innovation, you might not see a lot of strategy. But if you watch sOs, it's a completely different thing. At least, I feel like I use strategy a lot in my ladder games and that allows me to beat players I wouldn't be able to beat in a straight up macro game.

Regarding cheese: it's strategy. You can't say that sc2 has no strategy involved, and then complain that you lose because people surprise you with cheesy strategies and that you can't win every game just because you have better mechanics than your opponents. Naturally, there's some luck involved in these situations. But sometimes a little bit of luck involved isn't that bad. The game would be a bit boring if the stronger player always won.



Agree.

The good old "master player X got to diamond league by doing silly build Y, thus proving that sc2 is actually only about about Z" argument... The only thing that tells you is that master players are a lot better than diamond players at sc2, and that anyone doing the same build over and over many times gets pretty good at it.

Compare to that master player that got to GM by 6-pooling. Does that mean that the game is only about rushing?

Also, that same master player can very likely get to diamond playing below 50 APM. Ask him to do that challenge. Would that mean that the game is only about strategy and APM doesn't matter?
ShoCkSC2
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
Germany340 Posts
February 16 2015 22:27 GMT
#7
I agree with Cascades post on this 100%. Was just too borde to respond myself as it felt almost too obvious (hence not worth the time)
NaNiwa l facebook/shocksc2 l @shocksc2 l twitch.tv/shocksc2 l Grandmaster Protoss Player
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