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I think OD has potential since the bkb change and not seeing him played at DAC made me cry a little inside. It would be nice to find a pocketdraft that works well around an early OD timing (the antimage ulti combo is boring). So, I gotta find some stuff that combine well with OD, hopefully some people here also have idea's and opinions, all help is appriciated!
So far, I am thinking about drafting around the essence aura at a lvl16 OD mid timing. I assume that essence aura combines well with skillspammers in teamfights that dont have very big manapools in general. After some theorycrafting i came up with the draft below:
Lvl 16 worth approx 11450 gold with ![[image loading]](http://www.liquiddota.com/images/items/163.png) ![[image loading]](http://www.liquiddota.com/images/items/53.png) ![[image loading]](http://www.liquiddota.com/images/items/117.png) ![[image loading]](http://www.liquiddota.com/images/items/128.png) or ![[image loading]](http://www.liquiddota.com/images/items/124.png)
 4 & 6 sec cd on both nukes, alot of slows and damage amplification so that others can do more damage;
 6 & 7 sec cd on both nukes, grave+ulti is nice, has a chance to do 980 damage to all enemies in a teamfight;
 6 & 12 & 15 sec cd on 3 nukes with aghs septer. The essence aura hopefully negates the negative mana-impact of a midgame aghs septer so that ignite still has alot of value, bloodlust has synergy with rightclickdamage and arcane bolt;
 6 & 10 sec cd on both nukes, blink initiation, slows & psychical burstdamage, has phaseboots to move through zombies faster which could help.
I dont have alot of OD experience, so please tell me your ideas and opinions, why it sucks, why its good or how i can improve the concept so far, thx!
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i havent seen OD in low pubs for literally 200++ games
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Exactly FFG, we gotta change that!
I just tried this line up in CM unranked on my old account, although unranked matchmaking tends to give bad games in general, the result was positive: 47 kills and 2 deaths.
+ Show Spoiler +
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lol i just ran him , they last picked huskar tho (no mana right?) so i got team to pick a warlock mid and i laned
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1224792237
he combos with medusa right with the mana regen ? he regens mana for whoevers standing next to him? its fucked up
to be honest i'd rather not go back to the OD mid every game phase :D
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The medusa pick could be smart too, with the manashield+mysticsnake.
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I don't see the point of Ursa in the lineup. Bristle makes more sense I think. Can tank up the damage and slow enemies while the rest of the team is nuking away. Much harder to shut down than ursa.
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Does Storm Spirit synergize with him? Storm and Medusa are two heroes that live and die by their mana pool after all. Having OD mid and Storm safe lane might be too techy though, especially at low MMR.
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I think you want heroes that not only CAN spam their spells, but also want to do so constantly while standing next to OD. In that regard melee heroes aren't the best choice. Ursa pops spelIs after going deep, and does one burst at a time. Also the spells need to stay relevant until mid game when you start to group more (which is why I think undying is not a good pick). I agree Bristle is a better choice because he basically wants to spam nonstop (even while walking).
One concept that might be interesting is a slow sieging lineup that spams spells to brake the base. This strategy fits with what you(we?) already have:
Frontline: Bristle
Heal/sustain: dazzle, ogre(bloodlust), oracle (spam E for mana), omni (10sec Q)
Also needs a strong counter initiator so that they can't bust out from base/tower. This makes omni a good pick with ultimate. Medusa ult Also good counter initiate. But OD, bristle, medusa would be very greedy XD
*get treant for item independent bkb piercing counter initiate (tree hype!)
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Russian Federation3329 Posts
Or you can get CARRY LINA or pugna or SWM as all of those heroes are super mana intensive
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clinkz od was something c9 used to run, might be worth trying
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Ok, gonna comment on the above posts, i did a game 2 with some other picks :
- @bigtony: Tried bristle instead of ursa as carry in game 2, its a viable carry for sure, maybe even better (im a ursalover and biased like hell);
- Tried witchdoctor instead of dazzle in game 2, good replacement imo. Basically means you have 40 hp/sec 24/7 when you team up, instead of the burst heals/nukes from dazzle. It could be a better option with a bristleback core, because bristleback isnt as squishy as ursa can feel when he gets kited;
- @llKyonll: I like the dazzle+undying combo thats why i picked both here. But if i cant or dont want to draft dazzle, undying becomes less impactfull imo. Could well be that an early bristleback pick opens up more possibilities without spoiling my evil plans in a draftsetting (bb can play the offlane or the carryrole);
- @Vaelone/llKyonll: In the proscene they play storm spirit carry nowadays too. I think infinite mana on storm spirit in teamfights could be very very scary. But then he would need HP sustain too, to keep fighting and zapping that early. Maybe treant+witchdoctor support duo could work well together with storm spirit carry and an OD mid? ( i am just guessing here because i almost never see a carry storm in my pubs). I think its a really interesting option. I just dont have the experiences yet to judge if its any good in an OD-teamfight draft. I think i need to experiment some more 
- @Bisu-fan: Linapick could be awesome, although i dont have alot of good experiences with lina carry. Maybe pos 4 support instead of ogre could be good? Or do I pick more tanky supports when i play lina carry? What would you change in the draft if you would pick lina core? I dont have the experiences yet to judge if it fits well in the line up, but i am gonna try it out!
- @ViZe: Clinkz is a smart and disgusting suggestion! Unlimited searing arrows, i have to try this one too and he can even go core or offlane, same as bristle.
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early OD timing
I missed a key word there XD
I was thinking about a general OD draft, which is why I came up with the sieging and disregarded the undying pick (plus I don't like the hero).
I guess you would want a early push+dive lineup if you want to get rolling early. With OD, bristle, dazzle, undying do you put bristle offlane or safelane. I think someone already suggested pugna (safe). He can really help get that early destruction going. Not sure about his cooldowns, but Q should be short.
Storm is a good combo for the mana, but you run into these situations where a jugg/pa can just run at your team and wreck face.
Clinkz arrows don't proc the passive, so im not sure if its that good.
Other notable heroes with low CDs: Timbersaw, windrunner (powershot), Jakiro, Abbadon
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Pugna is such a beast with od, you just eat through towers if they don't initiate on your team, and if they do it's usually into a nether ward.
With Pugna+OD, you should care about tankability of your cores (od, pug, +1) and counter-initiation.
As counter-initiation goes, you can get tidehunter, naga, silencer, earthshaker, omniknight, abbadon, dazzle, or any other you want, depending on what your enemy team choses. I'd favor omni, aba or naga since I prefer preserving the team rather than reacting to the enemy.
You may or may not need an initiatior (if you have one as your counter-initiator for instance), but having one is always good to set up the tempo: getting a tower after a succesful gank is certainly easier, and with your pug you'll do it fast.
Initiators being mosty offlane heroes, means your survivability/counterinitiators will likely be passive supports if you follow this draft.
Then again, in low mmr people consider pug as a support so it may be better to disregard my advice...
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I think pugna is a nice hero with alot of potential but he is badly executed at mediocre mmr, certainly in a patch that doesnt favor towergold as much as KDA-gold imo. A pugnapick is easily punished by the current comeback mechanic in dota2. Then again, i dont have that many pugnagames so it is an assumption. But maybe against illusionheros it is nice corepick (suckisucki illusions with a 0 second cd solves alot of problems in those games).
Depending on what the enemy drafts i could end up with something like: Bristle offlane, pugna mid, OD+witchdoctor+treebeard trilane. The trilane has some killpotential with an imprisonment into a coco+maledict+leechseed killcombo. It would solve the counterinitiation and tankiness as the witchdoctor grants 40hp/second 24/7+tree-armour+leechseed besides the treebeard overgrowth into the witchdoctor gatlinggun for counterinitiation. I am trying to figure out a way how i could end up with a pugna+od+bristle corecombo, but i dont know if its any good.
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i'd prolly run the medusa-phoenix combo because both heroes do well with OD's mana regen and take a lot of attention in teamfights so people cant just focus OD down and expect to win fights. Duza also is a ticking time bomb in general which synergizes nicely with od's mid-game potential (aka OD can carry mid- while duza takes over lategame).
You'd probably need an initiator with that though, which is relatively hard on a support. WK comes to mind with his low cd stun, mana issues and aoe slow, but that makes your lanes pretty weak (your gank's nice though). Venge is nice for both offense initiation as well as defensive mobility, helps with killing rosh with which this lineup is terrible and gives duza and OD damage amplification. Venge is dicy at 2k mmr according to my experience though because people tend to not swap when they should.
In general:
I like the undying pick, he bulks everyone up and creates teamfight control, things OD is bad at. He's also at the front and tanks damage for OD. He is bad at ganking and not very good at counter-ganking though.
Lesh is great as well with OD, he gives push, dual aoe-cc and has a 4 sec cd aoe-nuke for additional mana. He also comboes with imprisonment. He is purely offensive though. He could work with the Venge i mentioned above.
Abbadon fits the "in your face" style of OD and likes the mana as well (although he doesnt really need it).
Shadow demon is better than most people think with od.
Troll comes to mind for a similar playstyle to OD and also helps at roshing and pushing.
Centaur and Axe solve OD's control and mobility issues. They also both peak around the same time as OD. Centaur likes astral. Both heroes arent terribly mana starved though. Also not sure if Essence aura works on double edge.
As people said above bristle could also work really well when you want to play SF+bristle with OD instead of SF.
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United States47024 Posts
OD's biggest weakness as a hero is that he lacks hard disables and he lacks AoE. He has great laning, great teamfight, strong burst damage, and good lategame. He's somewhat weak at hitting towers, but this is mitigated by how Essence Aura is a great team sustain skill so he can easily back up other pushing heroes. You need to draft with his weaknesses in mind. You want to back him up with heroes like Leshrac, Earthshaker, Lina, Rubick, etc. that can complement his strengths by making up what he lacks to help set him up.
Dazzle+Ursa is really awkward to combo with OD because his physical damage is quite weak--his damage is primarily Pure+Magic. They also bring none of the things that OD needs to help out his game.
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On February 10 2015 14:55 TheYango wrote:
OD's biggest weakness as a hero is that he lacks hard disables and he lacks AoE. He has great laning, great teamfight, strong burst damage, and good lategame. He's somewhat weak at hitting towers, but this is mitigated by how Essence Aura is a great team sustain skill so he can easily back up other pushing heroes. You need to draft with his weaknesses in mind. You want to back him up with heroes like Leshrac, Earthshaker, Lina, Rubick, etc. that can complement his strengths by making up what he lacks to help set him up.
Dazzle+Ursa is really awkward to combo with OD because his physical damage is quite weak--his damage is primarily Pure+Magic. They also bring none of the things that OD needs to help out his game.
I dont mind dazzle that much tbh. I think one of OD's weaknesses is that he's fairly squishy, so I like the idea of backing him up with a defensive support. OD also lacks the aoe wave clear for pushes dazzle provides. But I agree that aside from shallow grave and the fix idea of spell spam+essence aura there's little synergy, which is a shame considering how strong weave is.
It also means that at least one of the other cores should profit from weave and that your second support needs to be something like earth shaker, aka teamfight and ganking control.
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How do you even OD when pubs are full of BKB carrier and carry who goes idgaf on BKB heroes ? You can't even play from behind as OD and you stay inlane for the earlier parts of the game since the hero needs so much nutrient early on to actually effective.
A lot of heroes outcarry him with lesser farm needed and can even join fights early on. One good thing about the hero is that he is a natural hex and force staff carrier which is great.
Idk how you are gonna do it govie but best of luck !
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LOL, all the games i draft around OD i seem to win this week, haha! Maybe everybody forgot how to play against him, same goes for pugna. I try all suggestions made in this thread and report back, its fun.
@verrou/llKyonll/others: I tried the pugna pick on my unranked account and i won convincingly with the following draft: Bristle offlane, Pugna mid, OD+WD+Tree trilane. The supportduo of witchdoctor+treebeard did help alot to get everyone tanky enough, maybe ppd drafts arent that retarded after all Pugna certainly has potential although the initial idea behind the draft shifts a little, but that doesnt have to be a bad thing. Its nice that i can draft od+bristle+supports and still be very flexible.
- Treebeard has impressed me two games in a row when i drafted OD and was often the difference in keeping heros alive and making sure they dont have to stop fighting (treearmour for ehp+regen and essence aura for the mana). Overgrowth has nice synergy with landing a more efficient aoe spells like the od ultimate and countering immunity. The witchdoctor felt as a logical pick with treebeard+od+pugna+birstle, the aoe heal does matter and the combo with overgrowth can have quite the impact. Only thing i dislike is that both supports dont really benefit from decrepify, but thats a trade off from being really tanky or getting more magical damageoutput with lets say a lion/lesrac/lina for example.
@goody: I dont rely on bkb's much this patch as the item got nerfed pretty hard and alot of abilities go through immunity nowadays. I can allways draft reliable lockdown if I think we need it and/or try to draft hero's that have a higher early game impact.
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Since there are a lot of snowball and/or push centric lineups.
You probably need to rush Atos after early game items in most games i think . It provides a lot of int and a survivability and the active is great for teamfighting.. It probably more valuable than force staff early on.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://snag.gy/MLyrF.jpg)
