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Mana Spirits - Slow and Steady

Blogs > Chill
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Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25981 Posts
January 16 2015 04:38 GMT
#1
Hello! Seems my last blog post was back in July 2014. Even though I haven’t been posting, Coagulation and I have been making slow and steady progress on our game! If you have no idea what this is, check out my last couple of blogs. Coagulation and I are making a drinking card game.

Personal
My wife’s immigration was approved and she landed in Canada in October 2014! The original timeline on the Canadian Immigration website was 14 months, but it took us 8 months to get approved. So life is really good these days.

I drive a 1998 Toyota Camry. It has had minor issues (changed the battery about 4 times in 6 years, replaced the starter and alternator, and I fixed an oil leak by replacing the engine oil pressure switch). But I absolutely don’t want my wife driving it in case it ever breaks down on her (it has on me). She came for a visit to Canada in spring 2014 and we started our car search then. It took all the way until December 29, 2014 for us to make a decision. But I was happy we met our timeline of “before the end of 2014” haha.

[image loading]
Old and busted

[image loading]
New hotness

Unfortunately, the car hasn't arrived yet. So it's still Camry for us for now!

Our next step is to get out of this tiny condo and into a house, but given how long it took us to buy a car, I’m not optimistic that we’ll be able to get that done any time soon. With these oil prices, everyone is a predicting the housing market in Calgary to drop off, so taking our time might work in our favour.

Also, to embarrass him, Coagulation got engaged a while ago. Everyone send him a congratulatory PM! Hooray! One of us… one of us…

Progress
Do you know this feeling? At the start of something, you have a feeling that nothing is final, so you can make quick, sweeping decisions that have huge effects on your project. It seems like the first 60% gets done in 5% of the total time. Then the refining starts and things slow down. You revisit and redesign and recycle your work many times. You finish 30% of the project in about 25% of the total time.

Coag and I are now in that last 10% and it’s brutal. Even though the project is still technically in Alpha, everything is getting closer to “final”. I’ve reread the cards about 1000 times, rewrote the instructions at least 100 and keep pouring over every design decision to make sure it moves the game in the direction we want.

The positive side is that the artwork really stands out and it just keeps getting better. I’ve recently been storing and categorizing past blog posts and obsolete designs. It’s pretty interesting because you can actually see the artwork evolving and Coagulation’s style changing through the project.

I started learning Photoshop to help out with minor things. The results have been NOT GOOD lol. Drawing is hard.

Schedule
So I printed rev.16 in October and got decks out to our programmer and web designer as a small thank you for their help. As I’m reading my last blog, that was supposed to be the end of Alpha. Well… that didn’t happen haha. But I am confident that this next run of cards will be the last Alpha run.

The move to Beta in spring will coincide with a simple website launch at http://www.manaspirits.com and a call for a round of Beta testers. I want to say thank you again to the people from TL that helped with early Alpha testing. That was back around 18 months ago… Hopefully if those people help out with Beta testing, they will be able to notice the improvements made to the game.

The focus will move to a kickstarter campaign in Q2/Q3 2015. I would have liked to hit the ship date of Christmas 2015, but we will surely miss it. I’m aiming for production around Q1/Q2 2016, as I foresee A LOT of issues with printing, sourcing, and assembling all game components into a box >_<. I have no idea how to do any of these things, so it’ll again be a learning experience.

Printing
Up until now, we have done all our custom card printing with Superior POD. The experience has been relatively positive, but I do want to give some honest feedback in case people are sourcing custom cards in the future.

- Their prices are competitive, but can’t compete with the Hong Kong printing companies. I haven’t tried any Chinese companies yet.
- They seem really busy. Every time I order from them I have to follow up 2-3 times and have always had to pay for expedited shipping in the end. They are really nice whenever I call, and last time they finally told me to just write in the comment section of the order when I need the cards by. So if you order from them and have a deadline, you should do that.
- Our card art is pretty dark. When we tested a few cards with competitors [Artscow, Printer Studio], their brighter printing suited our cards much better.

[image loading]
Left = Printer Studio | Right = Superior POD
You probably can't notice the difference with my shitty photo, but in person it's very clear. Also, please ignore my lazy cropping on the Printer Studio version, and the hot fix to the Black Dragon's stats

I’m just waiting for Coag to finish updating the artwork before I print the rev.16a deck. I’m really, really excited to see how a full deck turns out with this brighter printing

Testing & Feedback
We are starting to get broader testing with the few decks that are across North America (Alberta, Ontario, Michigan, Illinois) now . This is invaluable, because the player experience ranges from MTG enthusiasts to people that barely play board games. I started formally summarizing and tracking feedback. I try to list all possible solutions to the issues people raise, and then think through all the implications before implementing a solution. I think it’s pretty important. I open the document about once a week and read through all the open and closed issues to see how everything is being affected.

I got in a game with three TL members a while ago. I think it went pretty well but there were some very clear flaws in the design that showed up that game:
- A cheap card that makes a player miss their turn. This card is way too powerful late game. I ended up getting chain stunned by this card two turns in a row and killed. The card was revised so there are now two possible effects, and the defending player gets to choose one of the two.
- There are too many options on a turn. It’s overwhelming, and causes frustration when a player realizes later on that they made a clear mistake from simply not remembering what things they could do. I changed Heroes to all only have passive “at the start of your turn” effects, which should simplify gameplay.

My two friends in Ontario also got a game in. Their advice was very thorough and specific. In many cases they touched on subtle points I had never even considered:
- Players feel very frustrated when their turn is ended prematurely by opponents with “lose your turn” or “take all resources from a player” cards. I went back through and changed all those cards to have different effects to relieve this frustration.
- You can win or lose simply based on starting hands. I loosened the mulligan rules.
- Some Heroes seem OP in 1v1. I added a “ban” phase at the start of the game.
- Going last sucks. Well at least now you get an extra card if you go last to help that.
- There is no downside to hoarding resources. This has been a consistent problem in this game. I added a maximum amount of resources each player can have based on their level. I am worried the mechanic is too direct and tedious though… I haven’t played with it so we will have to see.
- Comebacks in 1v1 are almost impossible. I agree, and will discuss that in the Design section below.

As always, I’m excited to get some games in with the new rev.16a and see what the changes do.

Design
There haven’t been any major design changes, just subtle changes. I do have one big worry about a change. As stated above, comebacks in 1v1 are really difficult. For a while now, we’ve had Event cards. Basically, whenever a player levels up, they flip one card and a random effect happens. Originally, they were supposed to be like raid bosses – They would distract players from fighting each other temporarily and give them incentive to band together to kill this boss or suffer group consequences. It sounds like a really great idea; however, the implementation was clunky and these cards frankly took over the game. They made it so no player was able to accomplish anything. All players just ended up trying to survive and let the bosses kill everyone else. It allowed comebacks only through purely passive play, which was not the way I wanted to solve this problem.

The new Event cards have a simple instant effect. They are much cleaner. Only about 60% of them are positive effects, and 40% are either negative effects or help your opponents. The idea is to give losing players some hope of catching a good card and getting back in the game. I really worry that this is too direct of a catch-up mechanic. I also worry that players will feel resentful because they played well, were ahead in levels, and then one card helped their opponent and lost the game for them. As always, it just needs play testing and constant fixing.

Another big struggle has been tracking Hero level and Life Points. Currently, we have two boards that sit in the middle of the table. Everyone puts their pieces on them. I don’t like it too much because the pieces don’t always make it obvious who is who. One of the things I absolutely hate in games is when the score isn’t immediately clear to everyone. I hate players having to ask “What level are you?” “What’s your Life at?”

To combat that, I’m experimenting with each player having a tracking stand that represents their Hero. It also keeps all five pieces of information about the state of your Hero front and center:
1. Your Life Points.
2. Your level.
3. How much Mana you get per turn.
4. Your maximum Mana per turn (new).
5. How much XP you need to level up.

To solve the issue of having to ask that I mentioned before, we decided to try making them double sided and standing up, so everyone can see your current stats easily. Here’s a picture of the current state of our prototype, after 7 revisions:

[image loading]
Old and busted

[image loading]
Maybe new hotness? Who knows...
Yes, this is the terrible drawing I did Except for the central artwork – that’s awesome and Coag did that obviously.

Right now the stands are large binder clips and the clips are paperclips, but I ordered some plastic pieces for proper testing. The spinner “bearing” is one of those rotating fasteners that you used in grade two to make a paper plate clock… For some reason I absolutely cannot seem to source the two-piece plastic spinner bearings that they use in literally every board game with a spinner (Glass Road, King of Tokyo/New York are three that I have that immediately jump to mind). WTF? Why are these so hard to find? Searching “plastic snap fasteners” is leading me to things that are using in hemming clothing. Searching “plastic rivets” is leading me to industrial fasteners. Searching “plastic game fasteners” leads nowhere!

I have massive concerns about this idea. Firstly, while searching for clips, I found endless threads with people complaining about Arkham Horror. I’ve never played the game, but apparently it also has plastic clips but they don’t fit well and constantly fall off. I’m pretty sensitive to making sure that doesn’t happen here.

The bigger concern is if production of this is even possible. I’ve never seen two-sided cards with a spinner. I also don’t know if they will be able to have high enough quality to make sure both sides are perfectly aligned. You can imagine if the windows aren’t aligned, the spinners aren’t aligned, or the Life Points numbers aren’t aligned, then the things you’re showing your opponents will be different than what you see I’m worried about this a lot!

Artwork
Artwork comes last because it’s the most impressive part of the post

Coag and I did a one-by-one review of all the artwork. I would say 60% of the artwork is complete. 20% of it needs very minor touch-ups. 10% of it needs a little rework. And then, unfortunately, we added some new cards, which means we need 14 new drawings, which is about 10% of the artwork. But since Coagulation runs some sort of third-world slave labour artist camp, I’m sure this will be done in a week.

Here are some new dragons!

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

If you made it this far, thanks for reading and see you in the future!

****
Moderator
HolydaKing
Profile Joined February 2010
21254 Posts
January 16 2015 10:18 GMT
#2
I'm sure a great mind like you will make it awesome. :D
AKnopf
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Germany259 Posts
January 16 2015 11:36 GMT
#3
Oh, wow. I didn't even know you're still working on this. I lost track of this like... ages ago!

Kudos man. Slow and steady wins the race and I can see an epic win coming your way. Your game will be absolutely awesome and its so nice to have some kind of documentation for this process. I believe many people have ideas for games and like to talk about them, but barely anyone goes through the pain to actually develop a proper game.

Also: The dragons absolutely kick ass. I especially love the battle on the last one.
The world - its a funny place
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19262 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-16 12:45:38
January 16 2015 12:43 GMT
#4
Chill, I think about you and your game all the time. It is my goal to make it the next "Cards Against Humanity" game in terms of popularity. Glad to see your update and I'll be sure to share it will everyone.

edit: I am curious about one thing. "Both games went about 75 minutes and people drank on average 2.5 – 3.5 beers." Has the game time been reduced or beer count increased?
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
neobowman
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3324 Posts
January 16 2015 13:46 GMT
#5
Dude, this looks sick. I'm confused how the card game has anything to do with drinking but it looks really cool so far.
Render
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States249 Posts
January 16 2015 15:00 GMT
#6
Hey Chill, still looking forward to this! It sounds like the game has grown quite a bit in complexity. I'm curious how it's all going to play out. The "boss" mechanic is really interesting, I've never seen that in a card game before. I actually kind of like the two-sided card design, although production may be challenging. It's much better than the keyboard sized mat from before... table space is worth considering as this is the kind of game you may be playing with friends at a pub somewhere. Anyway, I've been following from the beginning and I'm impressed to see how far you've come. Looking forward to beta!
Rose my color is and white, pretty mouth and green my eyes.
Liquid`Nazgul
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
22427 Posts
January 16 2015 15:23 GMT
#7
The game looks great but your dedication is even more impressive.
Administrator
gaymon
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Germany1023 Posts
January 16 2015 17:24 GMT
#8
Really cool to see the insane progress you made, having read your first blogs about having the idea and now this, cant wait to play it myself !
Trozz
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada3454 Posts
January 16 2015 20:51 GMT
#9
Spinners are useful.
They're more elegant than dice.
Pretty sick artwork!
A build is not a guess, an estimation or a hunch, a feeling, or a foolish intuition. A build is a dependable, unwavering, unarguably accurate, portrayer of your ambition.
Kittan
Profile Joined April 2012
Poland3999 Posts
January 16 2015 23:10 GMT
#10
Gratz to Coagulation Also games looks really cool now.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=81288 <--- How I fell in love with a man, a team, a game and a website in a single day... | "There are no false gods, there is only the Emperor, and Choi Yun Sung is his prophet." -> Zona 40k
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-17 02:50:09
January 17 2015 02:49 GMT
#11
I can't wait till I have a good reason to come to Calgary to look at this in person (if that's okay of course ), but it's a solid 7 hour drive so who knows when that'll be...

Nice updates, good to hear there wasn't any problems with the approval of your wife's immigration.

Unrelated, but I feel like I could photoshop boesthius' face on the 3rd dragon and it would be very fitting.
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
Cedstick
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada3336 Posts
January 17 2015 03:09 GMT
#12
I was just thinking about your game the other day. I didn't take much interest in it before, but something randomly piqued it, and here you are. I have to say, it's looking pretty damn cool, and I can't wait to give it a whirl.

Good luck with the housing situation! As terrible as it might sound: here's hoping your economy goes to shit, fast! Hahahaha. I'll be over here in Vancouver enjoying my expensive everything -_- (but for real, I love it here.)
"What does Rivington do when he's not commentating?" "Drool." ~ Categorist
SK.Testie
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada11084 Posts
January 17 2015 04:03 GMT
#13
This continues to be awesome. I will seriously buy the pants off this game. <3
Social Justice is a fools errand. May all the adherents at its church be thwarted. Of all the religions I have come across, it is by far the most detestable.
Psyonic_Reaver
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States4336 Posts
January 17 2015 05:24 GMT
#14
I will fully support this on kickstarter. Good work and keep going!
So wait? I'm bad? =(
emperorchampion
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9496 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-17 16:59:23
January 17 2015 16:54 GMT
#15
Awesome progress!! I've been waiting for this update for a while. If you read this Coag, congrats on the engagement!!

My comments are towards the spinner:
- Adding components will add complexity to the packaging and probably increase pricing disproportionately
- Have you considered just having "level cards" for each character, just 6 cards with each of the different level detail on them you would just flip every time you level up
- Another idea could be having a card in a sleeve, where the level info is horizontal every time you level just pull the sleeve/card to reveal the next level (would hide the rest). This would also probably be less dependent on the printing lining up accurately.
- For the slider the "XP" kind of bothers me, since it can be easily read as "PX", maybe there's some better way to arrange that part
- That said I really like the slider design, I think it's a really cool concept and a good idea to have all the life, xp, ect on one piece
TRUEESPORTS || your days as a respected member of team liquid are over
docvoc
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States5491 Posts
January 17 2015 22:42 GMT
#16
I've got high hopes for this. It looks like you guys have really given it your all.
User was warned for too many mimes.
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
January 18 2015 07:24 GMT
#17
3 cheers for iterating! I think this will end up being something worth waiting for ^^
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
NeThZOR
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
South Africa7387 Posts
January 18 2015 09:38 GMT
#18
This game will become my favourite drinking game for sure.
SuperNova - 2015 | SKT1 fan for years | Dear, FlaSh, PartinG, Soulkey, Naniwa
Brett
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Australia3820 Posts
January 18 2015 11:32 GMT
#19
Dragons! \o/
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28689 Posts
January 18 2015 11:53 GMT
#20
this looks like it's gonna be amazing!
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