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United States4883 Posts
So I recently expanded my assassin skillset to include Illidan, and after playing around 30 games, I feel safe to comment on him and explain a few of his strengths and weaknesses.
First of all, everyone should know that Illidan is FUN. He's probably the funnest hero in the game due to his crazy mobility and infinite chasing potential. The drawback, however, is that it's really easy to suck when playing him. He's a rather complicated character and requires some really nice juggling of abilities in order to make him work correctly, otherwise you just end up looking like a kamikaze fool.
How Illidan Works
Illidan has no mana, so all of his abilities are based on cooldowns (reminiscent of Renekton, for League fans). His auto attacks are fast (0.6) and lifesteal for 20% damage as well as reduce all of his ability cooldowns by 1 second. In other words, he is most useful when he's attacking all the time. Biggest weakness for Illidan, though, is his extraordinarily low health pool, which is perhaps the lowest of any melee character in the game (technically, Abathur is worse, but we'll ignore that Abathur actually has an auto attack).
Illidan is fortunate in that both of his ultimates are equally viable and depend almost entirely on strategy rather than being purely situational. As a result, two primary builds emerge based on which ultimate you take. Metamorphosis is primarily a team fight tool, so I tend to go more toward the survivability side rather than the damage side; this strengthens Illidan's very weak early game, but definitely creates a weaker late game since you skip out on things like Seasoned Marksman or Giant Killer. The Hunt is amazing for split pushing and provides a stronger "assassin" skillset, so I tend to go more damage oriented there.
Early Game
His early game is super weak and basically pigeon-holed into only doing pokes. Since his health pool and regeneration are so low, he can't really contest lanes against carry heroes like Valla/Tychus/Raynor. His abilities don't really do amazing wave clear (yet) either, so you can't contest lanes against dedicated lane pushers like Azmodan/Zagara/Gazlowe either. In the end, the best thing for him to do is a lot of ganking with an assistant. Illidan + Uther/Arthas/Nova is pretty strong and almost guaranteed to get some early kills if your team goes about it intelligently.
Luckily, Illidan makes up for this by being amazing at clearing merc camps. Both Marked for Death and Immolation allow you to solo ogre camps at level 4. In fact, with proper skill juggling, he can even solo knight camps with Immolation. My go-to strategy on a lot of maps is to just gank until level 4 then solo both the ogres and the knights to get really strong lane pressure going early.
Mid Game
I typically just use Illidan in an assassin aspect when taking objectives. He's much more powerful when enemies don't know he's near, and he's very strong at splitting off against heroes and taking them one on one. As a result, you should really be looking for either a very squishy target to jump on or waiting to ambush someone as they are headed to the objective. In the earlier parts of the game, this is a little difficult since Illidan's lifesteal is not quite effective yet, but it definitely gets easier as the game goes on.
During the mid game, you can also start using Illidan much more aggressively to chip away at towers. Evasion is perhaps the best damage mitigation tool in the game, so can easily get in approximately 200 damage to a tower as well as soak up 4-6 ammo for free, making him ideal for chipping away early. If you took the mercs early, this is a really nice tactic to follow it up with.
Late Game
Late game revolves entirely around the ultimate that you pick. If you picked Metamorphosis, your primary concern is sticking with your teammates and taking good engagements. He can peel a little bit for objectives (unless they have a wandering Nova, an Illidan with Hunt, or Brightwing/Abathur, since you can end up in a lot of danger very quickly), but your primary concern should be staying near teammates.
The Hunt is a more interesting pick because it allows you to start split pushing like crazy, especially after level 20. Basically, your allies can go after an objective as a 4 stack and delay while you push a lane (Illidan is a fort killer), and if the enemy team decides to contest the objective as a 5 stack, you can just instantly teleport in on one of their assassins/carries and suddenly it's an even fight. In contrast, if someone decides to defend your split pushing, you can just hunt in to your allies and suddenly gain the fight advantage and smash the enemy team. On larger maps especially, this is extremely potent and should be done quite often. With Second Sweep, you can clear minion waves especially fast and push lanes like a boss.
A Couple of Combos
Like I said before, Illidan is very easy to be terrible at, and the most important thing is juggling his abilities well. Therefore, it's really good to know certain combos and how they can work for you.
The Early Ganking Combo
Dive (Q) in, pop Evasion (E), and dash out (W). If you do this correctly, you'll usually get in around 100-200 damage for free on heroes. You don't have to pop evasion immediately, especially if your opponent decides to run, so you can actually save it for diving on a hero next to a tower to evade the damage.
The Chase Combo
Dive (Q) onto the hero, kite and body block 2-3 times, dash (W) through them, kite for 1-2 more autos, repeat. Using this combo, Illidan can chase indefinitely. Nuff said.
Wave Clear Combo
Pop Evasion (E), dash (W) through a line of minions, then Dive (Q) back to the front. Easiest way to clear waves damage-free early on before Second Sweep. Once you have Immolation and you're feeling okay with your regen, you can just dash and auto, but this is a nice trick to have up your sleeve for pre-level 7 wave clear (though if there's a hero in the lane, you can use the first combo and dash through the minions for approximately the same effect).
The "You Can Actually Magically Dodge Things" Combo"
Dive (Q) actually makes you invincible to game effects for a second, and dash (W) allows you to dash out of the way of skillshots. These aren't really combos, but they deserve mentioning. If you use Dive (Q) on the boss/grave golem/large plants as they use their stun, the time that you are in mid-air will actually negate the stun (but you still take the damage). This isn't as effective as simply walking out of range, but it's good to know if you have no other option. Similarly, you can dodge the Dragon Knight lunge if you time it perfectly. Using W to dodge skillshots is absolutely necessary against some heroes like Nova or Falstad, whose skillshots are devastating if they hit.
Anyways, I could write a full guide on Illidan already, I think, but I hope this is sufficient for now! Cheers, and I hope everyone gives him a try out in the future because he's super fun and can be really powerful in the right hands!
EDIT: ALSO, check out this full guide, which is actually quite enlightening and helped developed a lot of the base for my Illidan playstyle and understanding: http://www.heroesfire.com/hots/guide/full-illidan-guide-hunt-meta-builds-7
 
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You should follow this game from Zuna (pro player)'s game he does on Haunted Mines where he gives a good run-down on how to use Illidan. I do agree with most of what you said though I'm finding that I use the Hunt less and less and more on Meta because of the incredibly survivability it provides. I may have less burst but it means I can stay in fights much longer which is more important, not to mention the faster attack speed means I can Q/W/E more often.
Something to keep in mind, I main Illidan as well and pick entirely defensive traits. I originally used the guide you linked however I found that it was ridiculously limiting in terms of sustainability and that it really restricted me on how I could enter fights since the slightest amount of focus-fire ends me. If you pick Shadow Shield at level one then you can trade really well with Tychus/Raynor/Valla and a lot of other characters. As long as you make sure you have Evasion ready then you can win trades and equalise quite well, especially when you consider that they are expending their mana, a problem you don't have.
Still, it's a nice intro on Illidan and mentions a lot of the key areas of using him.
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I lose more games as a result of crappy Illidans being on my team than anything else. The problem with Illidan is that he's squishy as all hell, but he has no burst damage, which makes him incredibly difficult to play.
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As a support player, having an Illidan on your team is like a double-edged sword. You appreciate him when youre in trouble and he comes dashing in out of nowhere, but you hate his guts when he tries to go really ham and you have to choose between risking your life to heal him and the bm you get when he dies 
Well done John. Maybe I should play some more Uther and get a guide going on him (and Malfurion, cause I have a crazy wr with him)
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United States4883 Posts
On December 02 2014 22:05 Dakkas wrote:You should follow this game from Zuna (pro player)'s game he does on Haunted Mines where he gives a good run-down on how to use Illidan. I do agree with most of what you said though I'm finding that I use the Hunt less and less and more on Meta because of the incredibly survivability it provides. I may have less burst but it means I can stay in fights much longer which is more important, not to mention the faster attack speed means I can Q/W/E more often. Something to keep in mind, I main Illidan as well and pick entirely defensive traits. I originally used the guide you linked however I found that it was ridiculously limiting in terms of sustainability and that it really restricted me on how I could enter fights since the slightest amount of focus-fire ends me. If you pick Shadow Shield at level one then you can trade really well with Tychus/Raynor/Valla and a lot of other characters. As long as you make sure you have Evasion ready then you can win trades and equalise quite well, especially when you consider that they are expending their mana, a problem you don't have. Still, it's a nice intro on Illidan and mentions a lot of the key areas of using him.
Well, if you look in my introduction, I mention that a lot of the talents you end up getting correlate to whichever ultimate you plan on going. Metamorphosis really requires some suriveability, so things like Shadow Shield, First Aid, and Stone Skin (or Blood for Blood) are all excellent picks for that. However, in the case of a Hunt build, you are mainly banking on your ability to clear waves and take down forts really quickly as well as being able to burst down an assassin/carry after ulting to them, in which case, I prefer things like Giant Killer and Seasoned Marksman, which scale into the late game more strongly (since you don't have the demonic form to carry you).
As far as Diving, you should be wary of using it for anything more than repositioning or chasing. The animation delay on it actually slows down your DPS quite a bit, so it's better to avoid it during fights and primarily use dash and Evasion. The only time I would consider spamming it a lot is if you got Marked for Death at level 4, but even then, it's primarily for the initial burst of damage, and afterwards your sustain is going to be a lot stronger in comparison.
On December 03 2014 03:43 xDaunt wrote:
I lose more games as a result of crappy Illidans being on my team than anything else. The problem with Illidan is that he's squishy as all hell, but he has no burst damage, which makes him incredibly difficult to play.
Literally, my first few experiences with him, my comment was: "This guy makes no sense. He has no health, but yet he has to attack all the time to stay alive. If I get low on health, I'm just fucking useless....."
Once you understand how to use his abilities to weave in and our of battle and when to use First Aid and stuff, he starts staying near full a lot more and he's a lot more useful.
On December 03 2014 04:04 Corazon wrote:As a support player, having an Illidan on your team is like a double-edged sword. You appreciate him when youre in trouble and he comes dashing in out of nowhere, but you hate his guts when he tries to go really ham and you have to choose between risking your life to heal him and the bm you get when he dies Well done John. Maybe I should play some more Uther and get a guide going on him (and Malfurion, cause I have a crazy wr with him)
Yeah, I'm beginning to realize that Illidan is very niche and requires a solid team in order to use him right, especially when you do a Hunt build. As far as pubs go, if he goes ham and tries to chase people behind towers, leave his sorry ass behind; he obviously doesn't understand the meaning of "melee assassin".
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Canada13378 Posts
Oh btw if someone blinks out of the hunt range before you teleport nothing happens :D so dont do it at anywhere near max range :O unless they ninja patched it
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That Hunt bug is infuriating. First time it happened, I found it rather novel because it made me completely transparent but still targettable. Another reason why I stick with meta now
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I don't think it matters much how you want to build if you hunt or metamorphosis.
The build is still: shadow shield, immolation, first aid, giant killer/sixth sense, stoneskin/blood for blood, ult upgrade/bolt
I get that with a hunt build you could theoretically go more damage but even in the 1on1 fight the other stats help more. Seasoned marksman is theoretically good on illidan given his high attack speed but he actually isn't a good hero for building up stacks. He has some of the worst laning presence where he can only dive and dash out which still get's him hurt often. Jungling or ganking is the way to go with him and with that style you'll wont be getting many stacks.
Sure you can use his solo style and then use the hunt to catch back up to the teamfight when you're out of position but that's not a good way to go at it. He isn't a great creepclear anyway and an aggro build he just dies too quickly. Hunt is only good against some sort of splitpush composition in bigger maps but even then I'd rather have a bit of surviveability to creep better in the meanwhile and be better at the 1v1. If you take the damage build you can even die to heroes like zagara.
At the moment both ultimates just aren't equally viable, metamorphosis is much better. It's very rare to find a game where hunt is very useful, by the time it comes out the game devolves to teamfight mode mostly and the few heroes that do wander alone are often not realiably killable with a hunt build anyway.. Some cases are a greedy abathur with someone to reveal on your team or some extreme split push strategy with heroes like azmodan you can gank constantly. Even then a hunt build can have trouble downing azmodan if he just lasers you.
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United States4883 Posts
On December 04 2014 19:17 Markwerf wrote:
I don't think it matters much how you want to build if you hunt or metamorphosis.
The build is still: shadow shield, immolation, first aid, giant killer/sixth sense, stoneskin/blood for blood, ult upgrade/bolt
I get that with a hunt build you could theoretically go more damage but even in the 1on1 fight the other stats help more. Seasoned marksman is theoretically good on illidan given his high attack speed but he actually isn't a good hero for building up stacks. He has some of the worst laning presence where he can only dive and dash out which still get's him hurt often. Jungling or ganking is the way to go with him and with that style you'll wont be getting many stacks.
Sure you can use his solo style and then use the hunt to catch back up to the teamfight when you're out of position but that's not a good way to go at it. He isn't a great creepclear anyway and an aggro build he just dies too quickly. Hunt is only good against some sort of splitpush composition in bigger maps but even then I'd rather have a bit of surviveability to creep better in the meanwhile and be better at the 1v1. If you take the damage build you can even die to heroes like zagara.
At the moment both ultimates just aren't equally viable, metamorphosis is much better. It's very rare to find a game where hunt is very useful, by the time it comes out the game devolves to teamfight mode mostly and the few heroes that do wander alone are often not realiably killable with a hunt build anyway.. Some cases are a greedy abathur with someone to reveal on your team or some extreme split push strategy with heroes like azmodan you can gank constantly. Even then a hunt build can have trouble downing azmodan if he just lasers you.
I find myself gravitating more towards The Hunt every day, especially with my playstyle and the compositions my team tends to go for. Since we typically run a poke/pick team comp (Stitches/BW/Uther/Valla/Illidan), it makes sense to go for a less team-fighty "in your face" type of build, and The Hunt also provides greater initiation once we do get one or two people down (or at least low).
In the late game, especially on large maps (Raven map/Garden of Terror), the ability to constantly split push while not missing out on a team fight is really huge. If you get second sweep + Immolation, you can clear minions without much of an issue and push lanes easily. This makes Seasoned Marksman, while seemingly useless in terms of stacking in the early/mid game, become much stronger going into the late game, which is important since you don't have the insane power boost of Metamorphosis. I find Shadow Shield and Stoneskin much less important since most engagements are surprise engagements or work to isolate heroes in general.
In terms of pub play...The Hunt is trash lol. Illidan is really not much of a carry hero, and without Metamorphosis, you can't make up for any of the poor play of your allies in a pub. So I can see a case for The Hunt being inferior there.
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Ok some games you may take Hunt, it certainly is the cooler ult and if you're team is dedicated to it it may work although I still vastly prefer metamorphosis. If you have a pick composition any decent opponent team will just ball up and go more objective style, perhaps using a hero that can overall map presence like falstad, BW or abathur to defend alone and catch up with the team. Metamorphosis is so good because it helps give illidan real teamfighting use where he already shines in the split up chasing combat.
It also just synergizes better with his best talents.
For example you mentioned second sweep.. No way is that talent ever worth taking. Sweeping strike is a dash which you use mostly for the attack buff and immolation effect, you'll have the effect up one stack nearly always anyway. For chasing it isnt needed either as you can alternate Q and W already so it's almost a null talent. Especially so since metamorphosis attack boost gives you the complete non-stop uptime for it. Same with immolation after patch (and even before), you have near constant uptime already without second sweep and metamorphosis or other attack boosts already complete that, no use for second sweep at all.
Stone skin/blood for blood are just the obvious best talents in tier 6 no matter what build. Blood for blood especially is usually awesome, heals you for a big chunk if used on a tank and given that you're a melee hero you're easily in range for it.
Overall the hunt and other builds than the classic are just lacking. Especially since the hunt takes a bit long and a hunt illidan is squishy in 1on1. If they are adequate you can get screwed too much, for example an abathur that responds to it will let the hero + abathur shield own you. BW can aid his ally and own you. Falstad can often get there early. Some heroes like tassadar just laugh at it. The games where hunt are good are minimal.
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United States4883 Posts
On December 05 2014 02:09 Markwerf wrote:
Ok some games you may take Hunt, it certainly is the cooler ult and if you're team is dedicated to it it may work although I still vastly prefer metamorphosis. If you have a pick composition any decent opponent team will just ball up and go more objective style, perhaps using a hero that can overall map presence like falstad, BW or abathur to defend alone and catch up with the team. Metamorphosis is so good because it helps give illidan real teamfighting use where he already shines in the split up chasing combat.
It also just synergizes better with his best talents.
For example you mentioned second sweep.. No way is that talent ever worth taking. Sweeping strike is a dash which you use mostly for the attack buff and immolation effect, you'll have the effect up one stack nearly always anyway. For chasing it isnt needed either as you can alternate Q and W already so it's almost a null talent. Especially so since metamorphosis attack boost gives you the complete non-stop uptime for it. Same with immolation after patch (and even before), you have near constant uptime already without second sweep and metamorphosis or other attack boosts already complete that, no use for second sweep at all.
Stone skin/blood for blood are just the obvious best talents in tier 6 no matter what build. Blood for blood especially is usually awesome, heals you for a big chunk if used on a tank and given that you're a melee hero you're easily in range for it.
Overall the hunt and other builds than the classic are just lacking. Especially since the hunt takes a bit long and a hunt illidan is squishy in 1on1. If they are adequate you can get screwed too much, for example an abathur that responds to it will let the hero + abathur shield own you. BW can aid his ally and own you. Falstad can often get there early. Some heroes like tassadar just laugh at it. The games where hunt are good are minimal.
I feel like you're describing a lot of YOLO hunting. It's really easy to use The Hunt and end up getting fucked, but with enough usage, you should know where and how to use it, even with an Abathur/BW/Falstad lurking about. I never use The Hunt unless it's for mobility or I know it will absolutely work in a positive manner (for example, I owned a Chen the other day because I knew his teammates were on the other side of the map and his ult was down). It's simply about good decision making.
As far as Second Sweep goes, I'm convinced it's actually a pretty solid pick for clearing lanes and having an extra dash in your arsenal (though I tend to prefer Blood for Blood these days). The extra dash allows you 100% up time on immolation while also giving you a second dash in case you need to dodge a skillshot (great for dealing with Nova or Falstad), so it's not bad by any means. Stoneskin is fairly unnecessary for Hunt builds, ideal for Metamorphosis.
The poke/pick team comp is only really weak against massive CC + chase (for instance BL + Divine Storm). The other 4, as long as they are solid heroes, can definitely still contest objectives and poke quite a bit until the engagement is ready for Illidan to swoop in. I honestly don't think it's as simple as "a decent enemy team will just ball up and do objectives". That's literally what like 90% of late game in Heroes is already.
Sidenote: This is kind of late, but Dakkas, you do realize that that guide has ~4 different builds in it, right? It covers a lot of what works and why it works for Illidan, including why Shadow Shield/First Aid/Stoneskin are great for him. Reading back over your post, I'm not sure why you would disagree with it lol.
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I think you should consider blink. Over the other upgraded ults more often.
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On December 05 2014 03:20 SC2John wrote:Sidenote: This is kind of late, but Dakkas, you do realize that that guide has ~4 different builds in it, right? It covers a lot of what works and why it works for Illidan, including why Shadow Shield/First Aid/Stoneskin are great for him. Reading back over your post, I'm not sure why you would disagree with it lol.
Actually, no I didn't notice that. Well I feel like a clutz.
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