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So I had a chat over skype with some of my childhood friends that I hold dear. We were playing some Dota 2 together and just talking about the future at the same time. When they hit me with the question: So Petter, when are you going to do something real? Arn´t you going back to studying at the university soon?
I have applied for a couple of programs that starts this year which is system engineering, teacher and international marketing. A bit of a mix sure but I have a hard time deciding.
Anyway, for the past 4 years I´ve been running a e-sport team. This year we managed to have a full time employee that just works with the management of the team and keeping sponsors happy. Also to oversee the players salaries and such stuff so all things run smooth.
What I want to be said with this is that I´ve learned a lot from this but I dont really know the value of it all in the end. When I get that type of question it feels like you get confused since from their perspective I´m just wasting my time. Still, I´ll get 23 this year and no real education yet to rely on so in some sense I guess they are right.
At the same time I have been planning, cordinating events, grabbing sponsors and doing a lot of work for the team when it comes to networking and building up a good name for our brand, I´ve traveled around europe to events and doing media, photoshooting, hosting podcasts around e-sport, been on the national radio for an hour.
In the end is that something that companies will value about me in the future? I have no idea how more serious companies sees the work that you do on your sparetime. Since I´m getting a bit older, should I just drop e-sports and go for a education if I get accepted?
Sorry for a piece of negative text but would just need some advice of maybe older people based on their experiences.
Thanks!
 
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Wasting your time is not doing what you like so no, you are not wasting your time.
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@OP: The short answer is yes, companies will value your work. What you've been doing is good working experience. If you can back it up with a degree in whatever, you're doing very well. Nevermind all that networking you've done - that one's also very helpful.
On May 11 2014 18:44 Nerchio wrote:
Wasting your time is not doing what you like so no, you are not wasting your time.
The dogma of our times.
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The attitude towards studying in Sweden right now is, according to my observations, that either you're studying(/have a degree), or you're a failure. Pretty much no matter what you're working with you're going to run into this mentality. What I'm guessing your friends are missing though, is what you're actually doing. You're(I assume) responsible for an organisation, building a company, make a lot of decisions, contacting people and making them interested in your organisation and so on. If your friends don't think those are qualities that are useful in other companies, they probably don't have any idea about what they're talking about. If you decide to study something related to running a company, you're going to have a huge advantage compared to the other people you're studying with, both wile studying, and when you start looking for a job.
You're in no meaning of the word wasting your time, and long as you like what you're doing, and it pays enough to make a living out of it.
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get as high quality an education as possible. one that tests the limits of your abilities and stretches them.. making you a better person than you were when you started.
in your spare time participate in eSports.
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As long as you get some sort of degree the experience will be valuable, otherwise yes you're wasting your time and you'll likely be stuck doing a dead-end job at some point.
On May 11 2014 18:44 Nerchio wrote:
Wasting your time is not doing what you like so no, you are not wasting your time.
You may not waste your time in the short term but when you're working a checkout through your 30's you will be.
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if you do not get an education you better be a domain specialist in some important field.
i do not know personally HuK or Chill or Incontrol but i'm just going to use them as examples to make this explanation easier.
for example, HuK and Incontrol stand a reasonable chance of being a "domain specialists" if they stop being SC2 pros.
However, Chill or Incontrol's method of being a domain specialist is much safer because they have that piece of paper.
if you're really into eSports i'd recommend the "Chill mehod" or the "INcontrol method" rather than the "Huk method".
of course, nothing is stopping HuK from getting an education after he retires.
generally speaking, it just sucks to be in school when you are over 25.
some people don't mind being in school when they are 25+ though.
and of course, being in any sort of profession at all requires 4 years minimum of education.
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I've never regretted not living up to the expectations of others.
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As long as you leverage your work experience as an entrepreneurial risk that you learned a lot from, you should have no problem getting into a good business program. Maybe check out some of the programs at Handels or SSB. But yeah, it probably would be a wise idea to move on since it's REALLY unlikely to get anywhere with an esports startup at the moment (not impossible, but I don't think the chance of it taking off justifies working on it full-time and not getting a degree -- especially considering that college is free in Sweden).
Anyway, that's just my opinion of course. For the record I'm doing my masters in Strategic IT Management at Stockholm U at the moment and this is all just my impression after years of talking with people "in esports", doing internships at various companies in the US, and 5 years of uni.
On May 11 2014 18:44 Nerchio wrote:
Wasting your time is not doing what you like so no, you are not wasting your time.
TBH I find this to be a problematic statement, yeah you might not technically be "wasting your time" if you are enjoying what you are doing but that does not mean you shouldn't pursue other options either. It could very well be that getting a degree enables you to utilize what you've already learned more optimally/effectively and increase your odds at getting a stable career that you actually enjoy.
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College education won't mean anything when the zombie apocalypse begins. Only those with the skills to survive will be important.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
If you really love esports, then perhaps you could study something that will help you in that direction. But if you think that the prospects of earning a living in esports isn't realistic, then I'm sure whatever it is you pick up during that time can be used in other things (normal business, for example) as well.
On May 11 2014 22:57 ninazerg wrote:
College education won't mean anything when the zombie apocalypse begins. Only those with the skills to survive will be important.
I know that I need to bury my poop in the dirt when I drop one in the woods, so I'm ready
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On May 11 2014 23:36 lichter wrote:If you really love esports, then perhaps you could study something that will help you in that direction. But if you think that the prospects of earning a living in esports isn't realistic, then I'm sure whatever it is you pick up during that time can be used in other things (normal business, for example) as well. Show nested quote +On May 11 2014 22:57 ninazerg wrote:
College education won't mean anything when the zombie apocalypse begins. Only those with the skills to survive will be important. I know that I need to bury my poop in the dirt when I drop one in the woods, so I'm ready
I do love it even though some times have been trying on life in general but I really want to succed in it. As you all say, it´s possible to do esports during an education as well in the spare time.
One thing I´m a little but worried about when it comes to working after grabbing a exam in some field. Will the employer see me as less valueable since I will start to study a little bit late in life? As one you stated as a reply, in Sweden and I guess in the rest of the world as well, want you to be 24, having an exam and 2 year working experience in the actual field. As I meet daily people who right away continued with university but some of them are so lost in the world.
I guess I´m just overthinking stuff but I really hope I do get accepted to some university this fall so I can enjoy studying full time.
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Most people go to college too young and it is wasted on them. You will probably get more out of it anyway, if you can bring some more maturity to the experience and actually regard it as "learning time" rather than "party time"
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You should do what is the right thing, for you, regardless of what someone else says no matter their best intentions. Someone can show you the door(s) but you must be the one to walk trought it. It seems like you are doing something serious with this E-sports; if you want success do what you truly love. day after day. something like that
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TLADT24920 Posts
Being passionate about something is important imo. It's great that you are doing stuff for esports and I'm sure you would've developed skills from having to find sponsors, market the team etc... I don't see starting university at the age of 23 as being problematic or anything. You'll finish by the time you're 27 so you'll have plenty of time to gather experiences and work your way up. In a way, since you're 23, you're more mature than an 18-19 year old who would've started university so you would have a better idea of what you want to study, more motivated etc... Best of luck!
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I am 24.
I really am not pleased that I fit that first world problems meme, no financial support but can't afford uni. I was unwilling to be sacked with loan debt, starting to regret that now. I have been quite lucky with the job I am at now but things are kind of starting to fall apart, and I am working in Ag when I wanted to work in Aeronautics.
Yup. Planned on working with the sky and working with dirt. Not that what comes from dirt can't be fascinating, just that I would really rather be flying. What is funny is I know significantly more than a lot of college students in my field now having never been there while still appearing an absolute dunce to some due to the purely experience based knowledge I am working from. But I can also be a lot more fluid than some university types, who get rigid because college taught them "you just don't do that" while I see that "outliers who do that PROPERLY make incredible wealth and prosperity for a lot of people, not just themselves".
For your networking skills keeping sponsors happy, that position is offered from the NFL to NHRA to NPR. Or BBC or whatever.
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re: friends. You don't have to disown your friends, but be weary of the advice they give you. I've found that advice from successful people like Cuban, Corcoran, and Bill Gates differs greatly from what I thought was good advice. One example is Cuban and Robert Herjavec (from the show Shark Tank) both say the old saying of "it's not what you know; it's who you know" isn't true because they both didn't know anyone when they sold their companies.
I'm not sure if you're familiar with the show Shark Tank (Dragons' Den in Canada and the UK), but Mark Cuban (worth over 2 bil) and Barbara Corcoran (worth 40+ mil) have both had a ton of jobs before they became successful. Cuban said he had a hard time holding a job for more than 7 months before he started his first company, MicroSolutions. Corcoran said she was a straight D student and had 26 jobs before starting her real estate company.
Both Cuban and Bill Gates say the best thing to do is continue your education. Cuban stresses this doesn't have to mean college education because he learned a ton from all the jobs he had after college. He read software manuals and worked like crazy at MicroSolutions, a software consulting company. Basically if you do something, do it 100% and learn as much as possible. What you learn will apply to everything.
Disclaimer: I'm not sure how things are in Sweden with college degrees, but already degrees are starting to not mean anything at tech companies in America. I'm generalizing, but that's another topic altogether.
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If you have been running actual teams of people then you are in the exact same situation as I was 3-5 years ago. I had no real education and had run E-sports teams in War3 along with a World of Warcraft guild (it had roughly 10k members at its peak)
Once I graduated from universitety as a systemsdeverloper /IT I got my first job with about 20k higher pay than my peers. Reason? I had people skills since I had previous work with managing teams and I got a leader position on the spot. People management skillset is really sought after and is something you don't really learn at the university.
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To run an esports team you must have incredible soft skills. That's valuable no matter what.
As for long-term viability, do you think the opportunities for you will grow in the future? Is esports REALLY that bad of a place to be? What if you were a top NFL or MLB recruiter, would those people view you differently?
And as for education, a job, or w/e: companies truly only care if you can deliver what they need. That's why they hire. College degrees are a good way to differentiate. I think you could make an equally strong case based on your experience and obvious ability to network.
Also, the people you should be asking likely aren't on TL. Most people give terrible advice. Nor should you ask your friends, or your family (ESPECIALLY them). Actually pretty much almost everybody gives awful advice. You won't hear advice tailored to your situation, you'll hear variations on "common wisdom," anecdotes, or answers twisted to meet people's personal agendas and biases. Regardless of the reason, you'll get a ton of crappy answers which won't give you clarity and help you act. ('hey teodice, follow your passion bro!')
You need to ask somebody who's achieved the kind of success you want in your life, and who's already walked the particular path you choose to trod. So, my questions for you,
1) Have you discovered a fundamental question or pursuit that deeply fascinates you (a life mission, not a passion)?
2) What are you really good at? Any truly specific knowledge? (ie knowing how to disgn, code, deploy and maintain websites = form of specific knowledge)
3) Where do you see the greatest opportunity for you in the next year?
4) Do you have any other life goals or desires that can help you choose what to do? (for instance, I want to buy a lakehouse before the end of 2019. It's one of my big life goals to have a place where myself, friends and family can all escape. So I can happily use that as fuel to excel at work, studies, or whatever I can realistically link to my ability to go buy a lakehouse.)
5) Anything else you'd like to add?
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I'll expound on the education point more:
Depending on where or what you want to do, there might be hard education requirements. For instance, to become a doctor, you must go to medical school. This is non-negotiable.
On the opposite side of things, you could go become a programmer. In this domain, companies couldn't give two shits about your education - can you deliver, or not? Prove it.
If you don't have end goals to define the answers to these questions, your best and only right choice is to opportunistically go wherever you estimate you can experience the most growth. This might mean college, this might mean apprenticing to some truly brilliant person doing something that nobody will understand and everyone will question you over it, until that moment comes where your defiance of traditional wisdom has yielded you a truly incredible skillset.
Don't listen to other people unless they themselves have proven worthy of being listened to. And - here's a rule of thumb that can be broken sometimes - best way to tell good advice is if the person you asked responds by asking you more questions, no matter how smart or qualified they might be (unless you're really good at asking questions).
Do what will make you grow (not whatever's the easiest or most convenient), and be open to serendipity (drop out of college to work with a renowned world-famous author? most definitely).
Maybe this means go study the nfl, mlb, nba (or some non-us sports juggernaut - I don't know or care, I just know these by proximity), talk with the recruiters, managers, etc, and apply the principles of their industry to your esports team, and organization.
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EPT
