• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:02
CEST 17:02
KST 00:02
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy13
Community News
LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments2Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?39Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris48Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!15
StarCraft 2
General
Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw? Heaven's Balance Suggestions (roast me) Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies
Brood War
General
ASL20 General Discussion BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Buy Oxycontin, Xanax, Adderall, Rivotril, Adipex, Pros React To: herO's Baffling Game
Tourneys
Is there English video for group selection for ASL [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [ASL20] Ro24 Group F
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
Collective Intelligence: Tea…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1134 users

An Idea For 2014. A SC2 Balance Committee

Blogs > Clbull
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
Clbull
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1439 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-22 19:04:41
December 22 2013 18:42 GMT
#1
Currently, we face a crisis. SK.MC criticized the SC2 metagame harshly, calling it (especially in regards to TvZ and TvP) one dimensional, a number of Terran players since 2012 including but not limited to Liquid`Jinro, WW.Sting, Empire.Kas, BeastyQT, MarineKingPrime and Liquid`Sea have retired, citing either imbalance reasons or simply not enjoying the game anymore. Three of the above players have expressed interest in playing other games, MKP and BeastyQT plan to switch to League of Legends while Sea has switched back to Brood War and is playing in SOSPA. We've even seen Xenocider consider retirement along with GM-level Terran pros such as Demuslim, Select, Goody, Bomber, TaeJa, Qxc, SjoW and avilo criticize the balance of the game in one way or another whether offering balance suggestions, whining on stream or in Facebook posts, switching races temporarily or smashing their keyboards prior to typing 'gg.'

It has even happened amongst non-Terrans too. Quite a few KeSPA pros such as Bisu, JangBi, Flying and ZerO have retired for various reasons, whether to pursue military service, because they've gone past their peaks or because they disliked SC2. Either way, a few now stream BW and are competing in SOSPA leagues.

Will this thread be a balance discussion? No. I will not outline the flaws of the current metagame; due to my ranking I am not qualified to comment. All I can say is that as a viewer, I don't find bio vs Protoss or Zerg (both playstyles pretty much mandated at the professional level) interesting to watch. However, I feel like Blizzard as a whole are slowly starting to repeat the balance adjustment mistakes that made Wings Zerg dominated in the first place and overall we're hitting a point where the meta is even more stagnant than in late 2012. At least in 2012 we saw new builds, unit compositions come back into fashion and legitimate Terran and Protoss victories.

If it's not balance whine or discussion, what is it?

A Call To Arms.

Some of you may remember that infamous Inside The Game episode with IdrA, iNcontroL and Destiny talking about the state of the game as a whole. As much as this was done in an attack on Destiny's opinion; IdrA made some very good points in said episode. Some of his quotes:

"Like we all say that they [Blizzard] fucked up and they're not going to fix it, so stop hoping for them to fix it and try to focus on the things that we can actually fix..."

"...we are going to play this game and try to make it as good as possible 'cause Blizzard's not going to do shit, so we're going to..."

This episode was mainly aimed at Destiny's criticisms of SC2 unrelated to the game's balance and related to the casual side of the game. However, Greg's point is completely correct. If Blizzard aren't going to fix things wrong with the game, the community should step in and do so.

So What You're Saying Is?...

Step 1:
Start a Balance Mod Committee; extend an invitation to both large and small scale tournament organizers, mod designers, modders proficient with the SC2 Map Editor and/or 3DSMax, and current/former pro players from all game regions.

Organizers - Host paid tournaments of the balance mod without any conflict with WCS and within the Tournament Guidelines. (I'll explain why later.)
Designers - Gather feedback from pro replays, replay analysis and theorycrafting and assess minor tweaks to the game's balance with the goal of adding areas of perfect imbalance within the game (one unit counters another, etc.)
Pro Players - Mainly to playtest, stream, give feedback and provide private replays for the organizers when necessary.
Modders - Update the mod.

Step 2:
With the resources available, aim to create a StarCraft II mod that:
  • Makes minor tweaks to the game, but on things Blizzard are reluctant to adjust.
  • Only make moderate tweaks (i.e. replacing spells, giving them new effects) if necessary.
  • Avoids removing existing units or adding new units unless ABSOLUTELY 100% necessary.
  • Encourages a variety of playstyles and unit compositions.
  • Doesn't drastically change resource gathering mechanics or the game's engine.
  • Aims to make all, if not a majority of units viable in all three matchups.
  • Adds an iCCup/Fish-style rating system to the mod itself. I don't know the workings of mods after 2.1 but if you can load a mod on any map, I'd assume that this would allow you to add an unofficial rating system shared across all maps played with that mod and without the need to add an official ladder.


Step 3:
Present the findings to Blizzard. Nope, this was one of the failures of OneGoal. AFAIK few have been following the progress of the mod since HotS's release, they have lost pro-gamer support and findings haven't been presented to Blizzard. Additionally, OneGoal was flawed because it didn't have much pro-level balance testing or support in the first place.

Encourage organizers to host paid open/invitational tournaments. The viability of this would depend on the business model and how much prize money or sponsorship support is actually offered. However, the tournaments can and should stick to Blizzard tournament guidelines and aim not to interfere with WCS events in any way, shape or form; else Blizzard may intervene and stop said events through legal action.

There is a reason for this. With paid tournaments, a competitive scene could very well flourish from said mod. This would also give high level/professional players an incentive to play the mod although it could potentially cause pro players to switch from SC2 or BW to said mod, which could be seen as a threat to the SC2 scene or the amateur BW scene.

Step 4:
Promote the mod and Starter Edition of Starcraft 2 through word of mouth.

Why? From 2.1 onwards, everything in the Starcraft II client except ranked ladder and campaign modes will be free to play. The Arcade will be free and Custom Games with all three races will be free.

This will be a test of just how much support a F2P RTS can get. If people are willing to jump through hoops, install two 20GB games and a several GB mod in order to play DayZ, I have a feeling people will be willing to install the SC2 Starter Edition to play a RTS if well designed.

Step 5:
Wait for Blizzard's response.

I posted this idea on reddit about 3 times. The first time, people believed that Blizzard would just blacklist the mod or issue cease & desist orders and the other two times resulted in me being called an idiot. However, if it is advertised as a rebalancing mod and Blizzard are apparently okay with mods and paid tournaments can and have been hosted for SC2 mods before... I don't see why it's such a problem.

In the unlikely event that Blizzard would legally shut down the mod, this would not only be corporate suicide; it could potentially lead to another publisher such as Valve acquiring the mod team and enlisting them as developers for a competing RTS game of their own. We saw this happen with DOTA 2 when Blizzard did not give the DotA Allstars team the official acquisition/support they would have desired.

Blizzard could otherwise accept the co-existence of the mod and the main game or they could work alongside the team and implement changes in the main game or hire the team and release the mod as a new free to play competitive RTS of their own. Either way, it's a win-win situation.

___________

I would like to hear TL's thoughts on this idea. Is it possible? Plausible? Wishful thinking? Fraught with legal issues? Stupid? Or is it something we should maintain the status quo of?

*
Hryul
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Austria2609 Posts
December 22 2013 20:21 GMT
#2
then go ahead and do something instead of "calling to arms" in an internet forum.
Countdown to victory: 1 200!
aZealot
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
New Zealand5447 Posts
December 22 2013 20:52 GMT
#3
Thanks for the lols. You gave me a good chuckle on a Monday morning.
KT best KT ~ 2014
Clbull
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1439 Posts
December 22 2013 22:23 GMT
#4
On December 23 2013 05:52 aZealot wrote:
Thanks for the lols. You gave me a good chuckle on a Monday morning.

I fail to see the problem... Can you please elaborate?
jcroisdale
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1543 Posts
December 22 2013 23:12 GMT
#5
On December 23 2013 07:23 Clbull wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 23 2013 05:52 aZealot wrote:
Thanks for the lols. You gave me a good chuckle on a Monday morning.

I fail to see the problem... Can you please elaborate?


Thinking any good idea will be used by blizzard is lols worthy.
"I think bringing a toddler to a movie theater is a terrible idea. They are too young to understand what is happening it would be like giving your toddler acid. Bad idea." - Sinensis
Clbull
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1439 Posts
December 22 2013 23:39 GMT
#6
On December 23 2013 08:12 jcroisdale wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 23 2013 07:23 Clbull wrote:
On December 23 2013 05:52 aZealot wrote:
Thanks for the lols. You gave me a good chuckle on a Monday morning.

I fail to see the problem... Can you please elaborate?


Thinking any good idea will be used by blizzard is lols worthy.

What if the mod becomes really popular? I mean actually eclipses the popularity of the game itself just like DotA did with WC3? What if major leagues want to start hosting it? How would Blizzard react then?
Djzapz
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada10681 Posts
December 22 2013 23:45 GMT
#7
As much as I agree that it's unrealistic to think that blizzard would fix anything, I would argue that it's even more unrealistic to think that a mod would gain any amount of traction within the community, and even less in tournaments. Let's not forget that Blizzard is run by oldschool businessmen who don't understand shit, and they wouldn't stand behind a mod like this.
"My incompetence with power tools had been increasing exponentially over the course of 20 years spent inhaling experimental oven cleaners"
docvoc
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States5491 Posts
December 23 2013 06:10 GMT
#8
On December 23 2013 08:39 Clbull wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 23 2013 08:12 jcroisdale wrote:
On December 23 2013 07:23 Clbull wrote:
On December 23 2013 05:52 aZealot wrote:
Thanks for the lols. You gave me a good chuckle on a Monday morning.

I fail to see the problem... Can you please elaborate?


Thinking any good idea will be used by blizzard is lols worthy.

What if the mod becomes really popular? I mean actually eclipses the popularity of the game itself just like DotA did with WC3? What if major leagues want to start hosting it? How would Blizzard react then?

Except it won't. The entire WCS system is paid for by blizzard, why would they want to help this out? You remember Starbow? Neither do most people, and it's exactly what you're talking about. Now if people look back on starbow, they usually chuckle and ask why anyone thought that would work out. Furthermore, citing imbalance as a reason for quitting is an excuse, not having fun with it means it's like any other job that people quit. MC's remarks are harsh, but not necessarily the case right now, and just his remarks don't mean much if other progamers aren't backing his remarks up as publicly as he is putting them out there.
User was warned for too many mimes.
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-23 07:16:48
December 23 2013 07:16 GMT
#9
Not to mention that citing Jinro, Sea, and Beastyqt as examples of Terrans quitting showing imbalance is ridiculous. Jinro quit in WoL, Sea had just switched from BW and never really got into SC2, and Beasty cited BL Infestor, disappointments, and haters as the reason he quit. None of them quit because of HoTS balance. Sting unlikely retired due to balance--most likely military service or a struggling career--and Kas didn't retire.

Having a 'balance committee' sounds like a fancy idea, but 99% of posters on TL know little about it including myself. You don't put up a very good argument for this being a good or effective ... "solution".
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
saddaromma
Profile Joined April 2013
1129 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-23 09:31:02
December 23 2013 09:21 GMT
#10
I think its a good idea but we don't need to reinvent the wheel. StarBow is a good starting point, it has solid followers and very potent designers. It just needs more support from the community.

AND lol at those people who are bashing OP. The post is very constructive and thorough, with little mistakes. But I guess whining at "Designated balance discussion" thread is better.

On December 23 2013 08:45 Djzapz wrote:
As much as I agree that it's unrealistic to think that blizzard would fix anything, I would argue that it's even more unrealistic to think that a mod would gain any amount of traction within the community, and even less in tournaments. Let's not forget that Blizzard is run by oldschool businessmen who don't understand shit, and they wouldn't stand behind a mod like this.


dota all-stars made it big without any support from blizzard.
LastWish
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
2013 Posts
December 23 2013 12:10 GMT
#11
1. balance needs not to based on whining of people, neither amatuers nor experts
2. balance cannot be based on statistics(like Blizzard wanted to make it)
3. there cannot be more than a few commited individuals that decide upon the balance(it is hard to come to agreement in large teams)
4. individual(s) that decide upon balance cannot be payed for it - it needs to be a work of art and passion
- It's all just treason - They bring me down with their lies - Don't know the reason - My life is fire and ice -
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
December 23 2013 13:30 GMT
#12
All you had to do was call me to arms! I'm already making preparations to implement a balance mod right away, and we just have to form a team of experts that you will pick to make the suggestions and do the beta testing. I'm going to change the mothership core so that it doesn't do damage, but shoots a laser that temporarily paralyzes units. I also heard a pretty interesting idea from someone who suggested that mutalisks should be able to merge into one large mutalisk that shoots small mutalisks. I would like to test this idea for sure. Let me know what you think, and let's get this thing started.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
Kaeru
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Sweden552 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-23 15:13:35
December 23 2013 15:07 GMT
#13
--- Nuked ---
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
December 23 2013 15:15 GMT
#14
On December 23 2013 22:30 ninazerg wrote:
All you had to do was call me to arms! I'm already making preparations to implement a balance mod right away, and we just have to form a team of experts that you will pick to make the suggestions and do the beta testing. I'm going to change the mothership core so that it doesn't do damage, but shoots a laser that temporarily paralyzes units. I also heard a pretty interesting idea from someone who suggested that mutalisks should be able to merge into one large mutalisk that shoots small mutalisks. I would like to test this idea for sure. Let me know what you think, and let's get this thing started.

give every unit psionic storm. game solved. I like your ideas though. Maybe have the mutalisk shoot 1 mutalisk for every bounce it does? zerg needs more free units
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
Djzapz
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada10681 Posts
December 23 2013 16:41 GMT
#15
On December 23 2013 18:21 saddaromma wrote:
dota all-stars made it big without any support from blizzard.

Welcome to the new world?
"My incompetence with power tools had been increasing exponentially over the course of 20 years spent inhaling experimental oven cleaners"
Mothra
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States1448 Posts
December 23 2013 18:17 GMT
#16
It would be interesting to pick the brains of the people who were responsible for balancing BW. I wonder if it was a chance coincidence of talented individuals, or did they have design goals that can be copied to achieve similar balance? It's clear that a lot of the talent has left Blizzard. Every single game they used to put out would be an enduring classic... now there's Diablo 3 and shit.
Clbull
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1439 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-23 18:24:10
December 23 2013 18:17 GMT
#17
On December 23 2013 16:16 lichter wrote:
Not to mention that citing Jinro, Sea, and Beastyqt as examples of Terrans quitting showing imbalance is ridiculous. Jinro quit in WoL, Sea had just switched from BW and never really got into SC2, and Beasty cited BL Infestor, disappointments, and haters as the reason he quit. None of them quit because of HoTS balance. Sting unlikely retired due to balance--most likely military service or a struggling career--and Kas didn't retire.

Hence the line 'or simply not enjoying the game anymore.' I merely gave Jinro, Sea and Beastyqt as examples of Terrans who have retired in or after 2012, not ones who have retired over balance concerns.

Out of all the Blizzard employees, I think David Kim is the only one who is sufficiently skilled at the RTS according to the standards set by the community and even then I think he was GM level in the game's launch on NA. In fact, I think Dustin Browder acknowledged that he himself was Platinum League and he was a core designer for C&C2...

Beasty cited BL Infestor, disappointments, and haters as the reason he quit


IIRC, Beasty quit during HotS and I cannot blame him for citing BL Infestor as one of the main reasons because at that point Zerg winrates were ridiculous, Terrans especially in the international scene were greatly struggling to get results while Korean Terrans persevered until their limited options were finally sussed out and we saw two GSL Ro4s with at least 3 Zergs as well as all-ZvZ semifinals in a few foreign tournaments (i.e. Homestory Cup 6.) I find it even more disappointing that after 2012/early 2013, heads haven't rolled in the SC2 development team because technically an unnecessary (as in gamers both pro and amateur alike spoke out against it) Queen buff was the catalyst to everything that happened to the meta in 2012. I think the only departure was Dustin Browder and that was more of a voluntary move just to reassign him to the Heroes development team.

Having a 'balance committee' sounds like a fancy idea, but 99% of posters on TL know little about it including myself. You don't put up a very good argument for this being a good or effective ... "solution".


And I suppose waiting for change from Blizzard is a good or effective "solution" too? If a mod can spawn an entirely new genre of video game (I mean EVERYBODY is releasing a fucking ARTS/MOBA game these days) and two of the most successful eSports in the world; surely this isn't such an irrational proposal?
Clbull
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1439 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-23 18:37:32
December 23 2013 18:27 GMT
#18
On December 23 2013 22:30 ninazerg wrote:
All you had to do was call me to arms! I'm already making preparations to implement a balance mod right away, and we just have to form a team of experts that you will pick to make the suggestions and do the beta testing. I'm going to change the mothership core so that it doesn't do damage, but shoots a laser that temporarily paralyzes units. I also heard a pretty interesting idea from someone who suggested that mutalisks should be able to merge into one large mutalisk that shoots small mutalisks. I would like to test this idea for sure. Let me know what you think, and let's get this thing started.


On avilo's stream last night, someone said in chat that Blizzard should buff the Carrier so that it shoots Oracles out. He read it and was like "Get the fuc.... actually, stay the fuck in my chat! You should apply for a role at Blizzard!"

That suggestion was almost but not quite as ridiculous as yours (the large mutalisk that shoots smaller mutalisks one; the MSC one was quite good but I even think that having Photon Overcharge cancel upon the death of the MSC would be a good enough change to balance it out.)
Clbull
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1439 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-23 18:47:41
December 23 2013 18:35 GMT
#19
On December 24 2013 03:17 Mothra wrote:
It would be interesting to pick the brains of the people who were responsible for balancing BW. I wonder if it was a chance coincidence of talented individuals, or did they have design goals that can be copied to achieve similar balance? It's clear that a lot of the talent has left Blizzard. Every single game they used to put out would be an enduring classic... now there's Diablo 3 and shit.

I'm almost worried that if we get former BW developers to criticize SC2 constructively, we'll have another one of those "Fuck that loser" incidents at Blizzard; although I think the SC2 development team are certainly classier than that.

I don't even think we necessarily need the former developers of BW. We already saw a small, talented New Zealand team called Grinding Gear Games create a free to play online ARPG that makes everything about Diablo III (aside from the combat system which is great) look incredibly bad. In fact, I'd even argue that Path of Exile is the greatest ARPG since Diablo II.

The point is... Rome wasn't built in a day and I'm sure it took GGG a while to get the formula right. I just feel like Blizzard have made only very small and minute changes in comparison to Riot (the 2013 Preseason patch after Worlds) and Valve (6.79 after The International 2013) in the preseason of WCS 2014.

On December 23 2013 15:10 docvoc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 23 2013 08:39 Clbull wrote:
On December 23 2013 08:12 jcroisdale wrote:
On December 23 2013 07:23 Clbull wrote:
On December 23 2013 05:52 aZealot wrote:
Thanks for the lols. You gave me a good chuckle on a Monday morning.

I fail to see the problem... Can you please elaborate?


Thinking any good idea will be used by blizzard is lols worthy.

What if the mod becomes really popular? I mean actually eclipses the popularity of the game itself just like DotA did with WC3? What if major leagues want to start hosting it? How would Blizzard react then?

Except it won't. The entire WCS system is paid for by blizzard, why would they want to help this out? You remember Starbow? Neither do most people, and it's exactly what you're talking about. Now if people look back on starbow, they usually chuckle and ask why anyone thought that would work out. Furthermore, citing imbalance as a reason for quitting is an excuse, not having fun with it means it's like any other job that people quit. MC's remarks are harsh, but not necessarily the case right now, and just his remarks don't mean much if other progamers aren't backing his remarks up as publicly as he is putting them out there.

Starbow is actually the closest we've ever come to a decent rebalancing/redesigning mod (Yes, even closer than OneGoal) and the creators of that mod deserve more exposure and a round of applause. However, I feel like it's trying too hard to be Brood War in a way SC2BW isn't and has gone a bit too far in terms of removing SC2 units and replacing them with BW units as opposed to original units.

Nonetheless, it feels like the closest we've ever come to a true Brood War successor that isn't just 'Brood War HD' required to be played with arbitrary 'smart casting', '12 unit/1 building control group limit' and 'automine' disabled options.
Cheren
Profile Blog Joined September 2013
United States2911 Posts
December 24 2013 02:30 GMT
#20
Fixing SC2 is a waste of time, 2014's gonna be all about Heroes of the Storm. (and Hearthstone, but less so)
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 58m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SpeCial 153
Creator 79
BRAT_OK 68
MindelVK 8
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 51872
Sea 5034
Rain 3900
Bisu 1575
GuemChi 1529
Jaedong 989
Larva 895
Mini 876
Shuttle 631
ggaemo 380
[ Show more ]
actioN 277
EffOrt 250
Mong 203
Barracks 195
Hyuk 150
Mind 101
Snow 94
TY 80
Hyun 76
Sharp 62
JYJ45
ToSsGirL 41
Movie 29
Noble 27
Nal_rA 25
Sacsri 22
sSak 20
zelot 18
Terrorterran 17
Free 17
yabsab 16
ajuk12(nOOB) 14
HiyA 13
Bale 12
SilentControl 11
Yoon 11
IntoTheRainbow 11
Shine 10
scan(afreeca) 10
Dota 2
The International48373
Gorgc11989
qojqva780
Fuzer 222
XcaliburYe112
Counter-Strike
fl0m2455
zeus801
olofmeister767
oskar133
edward55
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor89
Other Games
singsing1396
hiko907
crisheroes519
DeMusliM319
Hui .299
JimRising 292
Sick155
KnowMe128
byalli108
ArmadaUGS104
QueenE83
SortOf44
Trikslyr1
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 1325
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 19
• Michael_bg 4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis3668
• Jankos1217
• TFBlade309
Counter-Strike
• Shiphtur60
Upcoming Events
Maestros of the Game
1h 58m
Serral vs Ryung
ByuN vs Zoun
BSL Team Wars
3h 58m
Team Bonyth vs Team Dewalt
CranKy Ducklings
18h 58m
RSL Revival
18h 58m
GuMiho vs Cham
ByuN vs TriGGeR
Cosmonarchy
22h 58m
TriGGeR vs YoungYakov
YoungYakov vs HonMonO
HonMonO vs TriGGeR
Maestros of the Game
1d 1h
Solar vs Bunny
Clem vs Rogue
[BSL 2025] Weekly
1d 2h
RSL Revival
1d 18h
Cure vs Bunny
Creator vs Zoun
Maestros of the Game
2 days
Maru vs Lambo
herO vs ShoWTimE
BSL Team Wars
2 days
Team Hawk vs Team Sziky
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
The PondCast
5 days
Online Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-02
SEL Season 2 Championship
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Polish World Championship 2025: Warsaw LAN
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
EC S1
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.