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These are old posts quoted from the last times I was testing and playing the map. I recently updated some stuff and allowed HotS units for the map. This thread is linked to the map in game/arcade for discussion and as a resource of information.
On June 11 2011 09:25 SpoR wrote:
So far it seems like 11overpool is safe for ZvZ vs 6pool. skirmishes are close and I think 11pool can come out on top just barely with proper micro ( I came out with 10hp spine, queen, and 2 extra drones vs spine and lings and only 4 drones). You can actually scout on 10, and decide if you need to 11 pool or not. Best to take a 13 or 15 pool if they are doing 10 or 13 pools and even further if you both scouting to 15 hatch in side mins first (lol this happened after I wrote this, and I tried to 4 spine attack and it failed horribly)
8pylon/8gate is safe PvZ vs 6pool. Thinking maybe 13pool will be best in this matchup. earlyish gas and decide to get ling speed or roaches based on if P is teching or skipped canons.
P build seems to be like 1gate, forge 2 canons.
note to self, rebalance minerals for sim city and middle for creep spread.
On June 11 2011 13:30 SpoR wrote:Updated the map and changed the name to 'BloodBath 2010' ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/RQfQ4.jpg) Webbed creep using blockers. This makes it spread faster and it just looks cooler (no downside for zerg units either) Protoss Sim Cities: (Build order is something like this) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QorUP.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/VPVvl.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/nHlrQ.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/R2m6R.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6omzo.jpg)
On June 13 2011 11:43 SpoR wrote:This wallin seems pretty safe and you can have it nearly finished by the time 7 pool lings arrive. (so you may have to lose some SCV and repair etc) But marine should be out after a few more seconds. I think this was my build: 9depot 11 rax asap 11 2nd rax 11 ebay ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/z1LuP.jpg) Previously I was using a sort of wall in with barracks and depots near minerals but a player showed me that drone drill rapes that. I think a bunker instead of the 2nd rax might make it work but its a lot of stuff that comes when you have only like 1 marine and I dont think the 2nd one would be able to make it into the bunker and you probably can only get like 3-4 scv on repair unless you predict it and get some on the outside or lift CC to repair more. I need to test with someone. 8depot, 8rax, 12 bunker might be too slow actually. edit- well shit, 6pool with 2 drone harass barely beats even 9depot, 10,10,10 tried to do a 8depot 8 rax, 10 depot on the edge near minerals to trap a marine inside and he can just kill all my workers if he send drones and lings. then escape with a few drones and its gg. I think I need to block the back route near the gas to make it so T can wall in the min line with 1rax1bunk/2 rax and a depot.
edit- so yea my friend and I couldn't come up with a solution to defend 6 or 7 pool + drone harass. So I added a 30 mineral chunk between the geyser and mineral to wall around the CC. Basically you make 1st depot to wall by mineral, then barracks between the mineral and cc next to that. And if you scout him rushing you throw down a barracks or ebay between teh geyser and the cc on the other side.
On June 14 2011 16:28 SpoR wrote:So map update list: -Moved top left up a hex cause it was positionally imbalanced. Now same as other 3. -Added some creep blockers in the mid for aesthetic and creep spread reasons. -Added 30 count minerals between mineral and gas at each base so Terran can 8depot/8rax to defend 6 and 7pools by walling in completely. careful not to mine these until you are safe and fully saturated. -Removed mini D-rocks I accidentally placed on the map. lol -Added tiles for overlords and scouts so you can tell if you are in sight range of CC/Nexus/Creep when initially scouting. (just like SCBW BB) We figured out some pretty solid builds for ZvZ and ZvT today. ZvZ 14pool 14gas +1ranged roach all in timing is pretty good in ZvZ. 6pool is still a pretty strong threat even if you are aware of how to counter it, you can come out behind slightly. TvZ you need to scout on 8 or 9 when you are doing 8/8 build. If you see early pool continue wall in and get marines. If not rax and bunker the bridge and fly your barrack over there. Marine before or after is scout dependent. Same goes for when to get OC. After your wall is up your marines behind the bunk can out-range roach harass if you micro right. You now have options to no gas 6-7 rax marine all in. Or get tanks asap etc. Need to scout when he is expanding (most important thing). You can also late bunker rush etc. Lots of options. Really good potential on this match-up imho. forgot to save all the reps but here are the last 25 http://www.mediafire.com/?kj4td575253igvy19 reps Zerg vZTP about half are just build order test/wins but some of them are pretty decent. http://www.mediafire.com/?rb0jajfx63atzw9I'll do some videos like this for sc2 soon http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=82997PS- I was wondering if it is possible to take all the SCBW in SC2 triggers,units, etc. and putting them into an alternate bloodbath SCBW version as well. Anyone know? need to remove/replace the middle LoS blockers they are too good for contains.
 
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Currently the map is uploaded to all servers as BloodBath 2013 by SpoR
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On October 12 2013 09:43 MarlieChurphy wrote:
Currently the map is uploaded to all servers as BloodBath 2013 by SpoR
thank you, thats pretty neat
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This was my absolute favorite map to play against my dad/brother back in Brood War as we waited and massed T3 units against the AI and each other :D
Excellent work and I'll have to try it out when I get the chance!
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I made a channel and group on NA, BloodBath 2013 . I'm not sure if the channel connected to the map info is the same as the group, I don't think it is. I'm SpoR.919 if you want to msg me. There are a number of others who play, but I don't have all their info, maybe they will post it.
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Preliminary research:
PvZ the best tech route seems to be to go 2 gate zeal/core pressure so you can build canons at the front to tech. Best tech route seems to be robo because your need an immortal or two immediately and more gates.
Zerg will have 2-3 hatcheries and lots of creep spread by this point, one being an expansion. At this point you should have enough of an army advantage to attack 2 places at once or just distract long enough to drop a pylon and canons at another base.You definitely need an ob or two for asap in case he is doing burrow banes or swarm host. Once you have the additional base you need to get collosus, storm/archon route is just too crappy unless he switched into air. There should be a timing on 1 or 3 collosus when you can attack. If he makes it to broodlord you need to have a couple stargates for voids.
In TvT, it seems like the best tech path is 1 rax gas bunker at the front and possible walling around it to prevent runbys. Factory asap, starport asap. You will then be playing tank wars with barracks for vision and vikings for support. If you lose a tank advantage you can focus on banshee and viking and use your mobility to spread him thin. With the excess minerals you should be able to make additional barracks, turrets and a CC.Ideally you want to make the cc behind your tank line that covers another base entrance, but if you need you can float it over. Floating some barracks over with it might not be a bad idea, as well as a dropship with a couple scv and marines. After securing the expand you will want to transition into ravens. Widow mines can be useful when baiting vikings to your ravens. Fighting over the gaps with turrets and tanks for the side minerals is important. Eventually you will want to transition into BC for yamato etc. Dropping mules on tanks can be a decent way to splash them.
I'm just playing random with a small group of players and random pubs and trying out different tech routes and strats. So far this is what has seemed to be most efficient but it can easily be changed. Obviously, more games need to be played if I want to get the map figured out in SC2 the way I did in BW. However, a lot of the elements of BW BB remain the same, and are a basis for a lot of this strategizing (<not a word?).
It would be interesting to have fresh players who never played bb in any incarnation to come up with outside the box stuff though, so play some BB!
Here are the couple reps that were decent games I based most of this on:
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Zicon_small.png) SpoR vs ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Picon_small.png) Spekkio
http://drop.sc/362523
+ Show Spoiler +I open 2 gate harass he opens spine>tech to roach. I try and delay through the mineral lane a couple times. I manage to get canons up in time for his roaches. Do a lot of poking with core+stalkers while he expands and I tech into storm. I hit a timing with the storm which allows me to take an expand while he techs infestor/swarm host. I barely defend his big attack here with lots of canons. He sends a posse of roaches and takes out a half a dozen HT,meanwhile sneaking lings and taking out a bit of probes. I tech collosus while he tech spire. I wait just a little too long and his broods finish to defend vs my 4 collosus powered army. Can't manage to get enough voids and storm to deal with the air so I try and circumvent this by sending ground armies towards his main. it doesn't work out and I get too low on funds. he busts into my expand with everything.
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Ticon_small.png) SpoR vs Spekkio
http://drop.sc/362522
+ Show Spoiler +Hour long game. we both open tank tech. He takes the advantage so I switch banshee/cloak. Viking/tank standoff while we both take expands. I fly 3 barracks around his sensor tower and manage to rally marines into his new expand. He sends few units over to defend. I defend it with banshee and keep the barracks and his expand delayed. I manage to keep dropping and sending banshee around to harass while I tech for raven. There is a funny moment where we both take out dozen scv by seiging/bombing side minerals at the top and bottom. He keeps the forward pressure on and my expand is under attack most of the rest of the game by thor,tank,viking,marine and marauder. Eventually I manage to stave it off and he gets ghosts and lands quite a few EMP. however it's not enough as my ravens eventually win the war of attrition.
I guess I'll start trying to save good games and posting reps here more often. I just want to note, that a lot of the time we are trying stuff out so they are obviously going to have obvious flaws.
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Played a number of games yesterday. Discovered that a nexus placed near the edges is a great way to shoot across them with a photon overcharge. Might actually be a bit imbalanced vs zerg. I'm not sure if I should try and find a way to fix this.
In ZvT it seems rather hard in the midgame. I am thinking now that, the best way to tech up is speed/burrow lings and an inbase hatch, then bane and lair asap (need mobile detection in case widow), skip bane speed and just rely on a couple banes with a good surround to land them (might still be an issue with gosu micro targeting players). Next you wanna expand for the gas. If they go heavy mech you need a roach warren, otherwise skip to infestation pit and get infestors and maybe a few swarm hosts. Haven't gotten too far into mid/late game in zvt or tvz yet, but I think vipers would be extra good on the map.
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Haven't been testing the map all that much but here are a couple of reps (some 2v2s as well):
SpoR Vs. Eighteenth
http://drop.sc/368329
+ Show Spoiler +Guy got me early game while I was being greedy. Weakened my queen with his zeal then finished her off with mothership core, then proceeded to kill about 7 drones and force a spore. He was ahead in workers and econ the entire game but his macro and apm was lower so I didn't die. I almost seemed to be able to mount a comeback by taking another base (ling roach SH) and but he was persistent and blinking all over the place around my locusts (stalker zeal dt ob). The end is very close.
SpoR Vs. Norcal
http://drop.sc/368336
+ Show Spoiler +
Guy does like 4 gate stalker, I tech biomech.
SpoR Vs Affect
http://drop.sc/368330
+ Show Spoiler +Just testing build order counters. I believe that you must go barracks gas in TvP in case of 2 gate canon rushing. Interesting way to handle it though.
I can't battle report all the other ones, as I don't really remember the games too well:
SpoR Vs asdf
http://drop.sc/368332
korean with decent apm.
SpoR & GalopingGhost Vs Dream & oohhyeeahhhh
http://drop.sc/368331
I think this was a game with pubs and I just defended well in 2v1 with shit partner.
Fulcrum & Goon Vs Spekkio & Spartacus
http://drop.sc/368334
GG!
Fulcrum & SpoR Vs Spekkio & Sparacus
http://drop.sc/368333
GG!
edit- I plan to implement a couple of features soon (once I finally get around to researching map making and copying triggers for some of this stuff). Any pros out there wanna help?
Here is a list:
- Look into abduct placement error bug?
- Make fun alternative versions of the map: fruit bath, desert bath, jungle bath, etc.
- Fix lobby where you can make public host still choose obs etc.
- Add in more action shots and map pics for base setups, attack tricks and angles, etc.
- Figure out what the bug is that allows 2 players to be same color (purple only?).
- Add some intro text/sound on map start like those old bw clan maps.
- Remove the full lobby = auto start function (is this even possible?)
- Add a lot of the 'bank' information like those play/obs maps have.
- Add map loading/start options:
- 2race random options.
- Alliance status how they were in BW (where you can unally/unvision etc)
- Change any players to obs
- Randomize teams
- Add some sounds/music to the load or start of the map.
- Add some more text and info to the 'game info' section. Relive the classic SC:BW map.
- Maybe make a naked version as well as one with all these added features.
edit-
SpoR Vs. MrSunny
http://drop.sc/368448
+ Show Spoiler +
This game was just me showing that you can't/shouldn't build near entrance in this MU because you can get dismantled. I basically killed him and started working on his probes and stopped microing/macroing (while I was way ahead). Instead of killing his mothercore, I ate cookies and died. 99/100 times I would win this game with this, imho.
SpoR Vs. MrSunny
http://drop.sc/368446
+ Show Spoiler +
Played a number of games with this guy. Mostly him trying to prove that 10gate, fast reaper, 6pool, or 4gate is op. Mostly me disproving this (unless I just fucked up). The last game we played though was a decent defense as zerg vs 10gate rush.
SpoR Vs. Eighteenth
http://drop.sc/368534
Mech
+ Show Spoiler + Interesting game. On a whim I decided to delay tech because of my scouting info. And also a game from beta just popped into my head where a guy rushed cloaked ghosts on me. So I went ahead and did that (he never scouted), and I scored like 15 kills (most of which were drones). I later use the ghost to bait some tank shots on lings and kill an overseer and attempt a nuke all of which fail, but whatever. I decide to mech to follow up. I thor drop, blue flame etc. And he goes swarm host so I pretty much can't leave my base. I eventually build up ravens and drop CC to expand (loading scv is so cheap, jeeze)
I think I caught a bug with the center of the map, you may not be able to abduct because of the creep blockers or doodads or something. I will have to look into that.
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Played a bunch of games with this korean guy (although he was not studied in BB build orders, he had high apm), saved a couple of the more interesting ones:
SpoR Vs. LegAdema
http://drop.sc/369350
+ Show Spoiler +I think this is a standard ZvP style I have figured out here. Starsense and scouting turn it into rape though. Game is pretty funny/entertaining.
edit- his color is white on the replay, so you have to highlight to see against the background of the site.
SpoR Vs. LegAdema
http://drop.sc/369351
+ Show Spoiler +Defending early pool with a 14pool and drone stack. baneling defense with spines, turned into offensive spines with overlord creep drop.
Oakheart & SpoR Vs RNA & Cornbread
http://drop.sc/369352
Long game 2v2
Cornbread & SpoR Vs RNA & Eighteenth
http://drop.sc/369353
+ Show Spoiler +Weird strat from the terran, He skips OC to get tanks out asap. I fuck up tank placements and get pushed back and almost killed. Some sickening unit timings, crisis management, and micro keep me alive just long enough for my ally to finally start doing something.
Protoss:
So earlier I had mentioned that 2gate was needed for ZvP and I might have to redact that. It seems as if the optimal build is always 9pylon, 11gate,gas,core,MSC, in nearly every matchup. With some minor adjustments based on what they have (maybe chrono a zeal out etc). The MSC can get overcharge in time for roach timings and obviously it helps out for all in lingers.
As far as transitioning, you almost always have to go robo-collousus because storm just isn't as effective (this is the opposite case in PvT). For PvP 4 gate seems to be the best option, and haven't confirmed if 3gate immortal can hang. It seems that 3 gate robo with sentries is ideal. I'm not sure of the build order but the guy I was playing PvP with was smashing me with it when I tried to 4gate.
There is still always the threat of 10/10 gating though.
As I mentioned storm>collosus in PvT as you have feedback, storm and archon morphing. That's not to say that late game collosus arent good, but in the low econ skirmishes, storm just fairs much better and you can get more templar out quicker vs bio. And for the most part you are gonna be making lots of zealots with legs which shares the tech route.
Ideally in super late game, you wants to be going for tempest (shoot across like 1/3 of the map lol)
Zerg:
14pool seems to be the standard 'blind' default build as it can deal with early pool timings and compete with outright techy/greedy builds as well. ZvZ, Drone stack is just so powerful vs ling rushes, it buys you all the time in the world for pool,spine,queen, lings to finish and even though you aren't mining he is much lower in drone count so you will skate back ahead once you stabilize. Alternatively, a 15 hatch on side minerals and spine crawler defense into roaches style seems fairly strong. And of course Swarm hosts+towers are really good here. I'm not sure if you can avoid going SH in this matchup.
ZvT I am still hashing out the builds but it seems that just like in BW, speed and burrow is really strong early game. You get tons of free scouting, placement blocking, scan wasting, even ebay and turret building. You also scare the terran from moving out for fear of huge ling surround unburrow. After this you pretty much have to do the same thing in all the MUs. Ling/roach. Except you probably will need a couple slow banes. The idea is to get the terran wrapped and just walk the slow banes into his trapped forces in order to save the precious gas. It gets pretty tough for Z in the mid game (could be imbalanced) as they will have tanks and medivacs etc. I think ideally you will need to get a 2nd base up just before the terran starts to be able to make moves and get some infestors. You also will need lair pretty fast for overseer in case he has gone mines. Your main forces will be speed roach and ling with infestor support imho. It's still too early to call it though.
ZvP Almost the same idea except the burrow doesn't work as well in early game (does work later with roaches etc vs FF).
Your main comp will be ling/roach and you can get some banes if he is going heavy sentry/zealot but really, all you need are lots of towers and burrow. Ideally you wanna be teching to SH and towers as it is so strong on this map. Hydra/roach is obviously always good, but in dealing with collosus you will probably want corruptors or vipers. it's a lot of gas though, you're gonna be sitting on SH and towers for a while usually before you can be comfortable enough.
Terran:
What I said about TvT earlier is still pretty solid. However, you might be able to do some sort of timings by skipping an OC and getting tank out faster (haven't looked into this that much).
As far as the other matchups I have sort of come to the realization that you have to get gas after barracks. If he is rushing, the reapers are invaluable and can even outright counter win the game. Vs protoss 2 gate/canon rushing you can just fly away and kill his main with reaper harass. Vs early pools you of course need to get the wall around CC asap but once the reaper pops out he's pretty well fucked on economy advantage. You need to get 1 marine out before reaper imho (it does slow the reaper by up to a few seconds, but the extra and earlier defense will help out usually). If the player isn't doing any kind of rush build it might be best to skip the reaper all together and save the gas for marauder or mech units though. Especially vs protoss where you will need more marines to deal with the MSC harass. Concussive shells are really strong early game, its just hard early on to build tech labs, and get marauders out with all the early/midgame possible threats.
Terran seems to be the most versatile as far as builds and unit comps go. You can usually get a bunker and pseudo wall at the bridge after you survive the initial pressure and then tech. Tanks, banshees, medivacs/bio, all seems to be fairly legitimate for offense and defense vs most things. Later game you can mass bunkers to deal with splash etc, it might even be useful to get the neosteel and armor upg for bunkers. However, the ultimate goal unit you should be aiming for his raven. The synergy of critical mass of ravens is so strong. There are really only like 1~ specific counter to mass ravens for each MU.
SpoR Vs. Jotripo
http://drop.sc/371825
+ Show Spoiler +I think this is maybe how a standard PvZ early game should develop into the midgame. I go 3gate robo immortal drop harass into collosus. While he goes ling,roach,hydra,muta expand. I think protoss has to (not lose the dropship and immortal) and hit a timing without range and first collosus while you get expansion up. Totally wasn't expecting mutas and that through me off.
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I thought I posted these already, guess I didn't.
Here is the optimal terran placements for early game. You can't make the factory in time for defending zeal or ling rush, but if you are going techy instead of bio here are the 2 placements I have been using to success. The key here is to micro your workers away from that 30 mineral chunk of crystal so that it doesn't mine away in the early game. If a player is ballsy and skilled enough he could technically drone drill it away and try and get it, although that would be super hard and I haven't tried it.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Yf0Myqv.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QYtiyac.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jyut6eK.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XOVIsJi.jpg)
(Addons suck in this position if he is massing lings early game. hey but at least they are safe from being picked off lol)
(obviously you can mirror these placements on any position but I didn't show them all for each spot.)
Also, as I noted previously, if they are doing some canon rush or some weird shit, you go reaper instead of marine and base trade them and fly away your CC with load etc.
As far as zerg placements, it doesn't matter as much. But lately I've found it safest to make your pool near hatch so that queen has a cover between hatch and pool and doesn't block rally point lines from eggs. And with the 2nd structure I place it where the depots would go to protect that back lane from sneak arounds.
Alternatively, might be a good idea to place pool right upside (left or right of hatch) in order to put a spine tucked in there if you know they are going to rush.
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Ravagers. Stay tuned for LOTV BB Thread and a Blood Bath 2015 map update on all servers lol
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EPT
