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[G] How to stop 4-5pools with every race

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 Next All
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-24 02:07:22
November 27 2008 10:27 GMT
#1
My Youtube account was deleted, But I reuploaded them
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=84861



I made a bunch of videos about stopping 4 and 5 pools on BB with every race. So if it works here, it'll work (or a variation of it will work on a larger map).

I've had these videos sitting on my HD for almost a year now. Just now adding captions and uploading to youtube:

I tested each BO v BO 2 or 3 times (not counting the 1000s of other game's experiences)
PvZ 5pool vs 9gate:

+ Show Spoiler +


PvZ 4pool vs 10gate:

+ Show Spoiler +


TvZ 8rax vs 4pool:

+ Show Spoiler +


ZvZ 9pool vs 5pool:
(this is probably the most notable video)

+ Show Spoiler +


I never actually finished testing/making all the BOs v BOs (even though I'm sure what works already):
5pool vs 8rax (obvious though)
5pool vs 9rax
4pool vs 9pool
4-5pool vs Forge builds.
4pool vs 9gate
5pool vs 10gate
overpool vs 4pool
overpool vs 5pool

If anyone wants to test with me give me a PM or whatever. Does 1.16 work for hamachi?


I used shitty music in these videos because its funny to me.
I am aware my micro and decision making is sub par for some of these but that just puts an emphasis on the fact that these defenses work.

PS- I have some blooper videos if you guys wanna see those too. Failed 9raxes (failed 4pool vs 9rax, lol) and failed 10gate.

Builds that don't work 95% of the time are:
9rax vs 4pool,
10/12 2gate vs 4pool
10/12 2gate vs 5pool
10pool vs 4pool
10pool vs 5pool


Thanks to Smaq aka NightToad for being my Zerg guinea pig please don't flame him.
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
November 27 2008 10:46 GMT
#2
Forge expand would be pretty useful, as would 11rax .-.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
wo0py
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
Netherlands922 Posts
November 27 2008 10:47 GMT
#3
You made very nice vids. bloopers are always fun
We shouldnt recreate anger of the non-virtual world
InfeSteD
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States4658 Posts
November 27 2008 10:48 GMT
#4
really fun videos, good background music too LOL ^_^
w/e
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-27 10:53:52
November 27 2008 10:50 GMT
#5
fun but i dont see how this would work, terrans seldom does 8rax wallin with suply to prevent a 4pool if he doesnt know its coming lol;)

its like "this is how to prevent dt rush" suply rax ebay academy scan bunker turret bunker turret
......na nanana.. nana.. nana can't touch this
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
village_idiot
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
2436 Posts
November 27 2008 10:54 GMT
#6
Python versions please
TJcan
Profile Joined November 2008
14 Posts
November 27 2008 10:54 GMT
#7
The problem is not 4pool or 5pool, the problem is 9 pool into up'ed hydras from 2 hatches. If you mass zealots, he'll micro you to death. If you gas and core, your tech won't kick in before he rushes and all you have is a few zlots and a silly goon or two. Only chance is to rush w/ mass zlots before hydras are speed up'ed, but he has that ovie in your base and can just add a few sunks X_X
stanley_
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States816 Posts
November 27 2008 11:06 GMT
#8
In PvZ 4pool vs 10gate, the lings should have went for the gateway. That way the gateway has a chance to go down and the toss is left with maybe a zealot. It also forces the toss to pull probes then you just run away from, this is better because it will make the toss lose more minerals then the other method.

It takes about 14 seconds to kill a gateway with 6 lings. I counted with the video. If he were to go for the gateway, He would have taken it down before the zealot came out.
hoorah
Ganfei
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Taiwan1439 Posts
November 27 2008 11:07 GMT
#9
In your 8 rax video, a good zerg will kill your scvs that are not protected. That zerg also pulled back when he coulda probably killed your bunker.

When you are opening without knowing a 4 pool is coming BBS all at 9 is probably the best option
You are crushing me like a cheese sandwich
eX-Corgh
Profile Joined October 2007
Russian Federation386 Posts
November 27 2008 11:19 GMT
#10
lol why make 8 rax vs 5 pool? Its pretty obvious. What about standard rax timing @ 11?
Never give cheese to the Gorilla ^^
ShloobeR
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Korea (South)3809 Posts
November 27 2008 11:25 GMT
#11
in your zvz one, your opponent starting build a colony in range of yours, which is obviously going to be stopped with your build.

usually the opponent will build a colony somewhere it can hit pool/hatch but is not in range of your own.

seeing as you only stopped his sunk because you had yours out I dunno how useful this really is.
: o )
stanley_
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States816 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-27 11:27:43
November 27 2008 11:25 GMT
#12
These can be easier to retest. There are too many variables. Try using the playrep tool.

edit: Nvm playrep isn't updated.
hoorah
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-27 11:31:43
November 27 2008 11:30 GMT
#13
On November 27 2008 20:25 ShloobeR wrote:
in your zvz one, your opponent starting build a colony in range of yours, which is obviously going to be stopped with your build.

usually the opponent will build a colony somewhere it can hit pool/hatch but is not in range of your own.

seeing as you only stopped his sunk because you had yours out I dunno how useful this really is.

Yea, that was a pretty big mistake on his part but I think I still win because I got free hits with drones and some of his lings died, I would have maybe lost a few more lings or drones to it. That's all.
My sunken hits his 4 times.
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
November 27 2008 11:33 GMT
#14
On November 27 2008 20:25 stanley_ wrote:
These can be easier to retest. There are too many variables. Try using the playrep tool.

edit: Nvm playrep isn't updated.

holy fuck, didn't even know about this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=67365
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
stanley_
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States816 Posts
November 27 2008 11:54 GMT
#15
On November 27 2008 20:19 eX-Corgh wrote:
lol why make 8 rax vs 5 pool? Its pretty obvious. What about standard rax timing @ 11?


With the 8 rax build you can be offensive early game in tvz. it allows you do a bunker rush if they 12hatch, helps defend from a 9 pool and 5 pool because of earlier marines. So even if you haven't scouted them yet 8 rax can be very viable.

Don't think you couldn't still lose from 8 rax aganist 5 pool.

With standard rax timing you just get a later marine and later bunker and those seconds REALLY matter. It will be just based on micro before and after the marine pops out (stacking the scvs then hitting stop and surrounding the marines with the scvs then pushing the lings untill you get a bunker up)

Charlie is just trying to show how the best way to defend and the BO comes first.
hoorah
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France7888 Posts
November 27 2008 11:56 GMT
#16
The terran one is retarded: everybody can stop a 4 pool with 8 rax. The problem is: you don't know that 4 pool is coming and you go 11 rax.

And you die.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-27 12:13:36
November 27 2008 12:08 GMT
#17
On November 27 2008 20:56 Biff The Understudy wrote:
The terran one is retarded: everybody can stop a 4 pool with 8 rax. The problem is: you don't know that 4 pool is coming and you go 11 rax.

And you die.

On bb I always open with 9rax/10depot vs zerg or random sometimes even vs protoss. Its perfectly viable and will stop a 5pool (i'm pretty sure) but 8rax is guaranteed to stop the 4pool.
If they don't rush when I 9 rax I just make 1 marine and a 2nd barracks/depot sooner.

It's pretty hard to fit all the 'what ifs' into the video, it would just be an endless stream of tangents (sorta like a combat-X vid, but actually correct).
Basically all these builds are pretty safe to open with vs anything. That was the point of all the videos.

btw, I've never opened 11rax on BB.
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
Naib
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Hungary4843 Posts
November 27 2008 14:25 GMT
#18
Your micro blows CM, especially with Protoss
Complete the cycle!
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
November 27 2008 14:33 GMT
#19
I think a lot of people ignored the fact that all these were done on Blood Bath. 11rax'ing against a zerg in BB is suicide.
Trozz
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada3454 Posts
November 27 2008 17:35 GMT
#20
Depends on the map.
Not everyone scouts early.
I don't blood bath often.
A build is not a guess, an estimation or a hunch, a feeling, or a foolish intuition. A build is a dependable, unwavering, unarguably accurate, portrayer of your ambition.
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