• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:47
CET 16:47
KST 00:47
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT29Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains10Weekly Cups (March 2-8): ByuN overcomes PvT block4GSL CK - New online series18BSL Season 224Vitality ends partnership with ONSYDE20
StarCraft 2
General
SC2 Spotted on the EWC 2026 list? Terran AddOns placement Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains GSL CK - New online series Weekly Cups (March 2-8): ByuN overcomes PvT block
Tourneys
[GSL CK] Team Maru vs. Team herO WardiTV Team League Season 10 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 516 Specter of Death Mutation # 515 Together Forever Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Gypsy to Korea Are you ready for ASL 21? Hype VIDEO ASL21 General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues IPSL Spring 2026 is here! ASL Season 21 Qualifiers March 7-8 BWCL Season 64 Announcement
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread Path of Exile No Man's Sky (PS4 and PC) Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread NASA and the Private Sector Mexico's Drug War Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread General nutrition recommendations Cricket [SPORT] TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Gaming-Related Deaths
TrAiDoS
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2950 users

SC2 Notes: PvT Solution Using Geometry

Blogs > SC2John
Post a Reply
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
August 23 2013 17:26 GMT
#1
_

If you're a protoss player, does this look familiar?

[image loading]

Yes, the bullshit "SCV pull before you have storm" strategy. It seems to be the thing now that we see in almost every pro TvP. If it's not that, it's just a really powerful maxout with mass barracks units before the 3rd is fully established and storm is plentiful. So, as a protoss player, how do we deal with this? A few weeks ago, Day9 did a daily on First vs. FantaSy in the OSL Ro16. In said game, First demolished FantaSy's attempts at mine drops, hellbat drops, and easily deflected most of FantaSy's deadly attacks. While I won't focus on the mine drops now (see older blog post here), I will focus on how First managed to parry FantaSy's really strong direct pushes. And I will do so using geometry.

[image loading]

In my crude drawing, I've created 2 examples using blue for the protoss army and red for the terran army. In the top drawing, we see what happens when a protoss player engages a terran player directly in an open field or at a ramp. If we take a minute and ignore viking positioning and stalker positioning and all that, we see that generally both groups engage each other in straight lines. In this situation, the protoss player has templar trailing in the back of the army, meaning that terran can easily spot templar and (with good micro) snipe/EMP the templar. The terran also has plenty of room to spread and kite against zealots/storms/colossus, and this means that terran can also get a good arc (as shown).

HOWEVER, the second example shows a protoss player who pulls VERY far back, keeping zealots/templars on flanks. You can see this in action in the Day9 daily, P2. In this example, the protoss naturally surrounds the terran army and leaves them no place to run. The protoss player also naturally chokes the terran player with how their army moves and how the surround works. In an actual terrain choke, this is even stronger. This particular tactic is SUPER strong and works very very well against these horrible maxed out attacks that feel so impossible. Here is another drawing to further illustrate my point:

[image loading]

As you can see, there's a natural pincer movement you get from moving your main army back. If you were to have your main army at the ramp, you would have a straight line of engagement with all of your templar behind your army. Yes, they would come at slightly different angles, but they would still all come from the same general direction. By pulling back your main army, you're essentially setting up a huge concave.

Anyways, just been thinking about this, especially after seeing bullshit push after bullshit push in professional games and noticing protoss players trying to engage in a direct line. I want to try to focus on this in my play more, and I hope this helps others as well!

:D

_

**
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Ktk
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Korea (South)753 Posts
August 24 2013 08:09 GMT
#2
Also known as: how zerg players win?
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
August 24 2013 10:52 GMT
#3
On August 24 2013 17:09 Ktk wrote:
Also known as: how zerg players win?


Except against 4M, because that's actually impossible ;p.

But seriously, ZvT geometry looks a little bit different just because of how mines/tanks are placed. Generally the terran army looks like a straight line from their base to yours, where the weakest points are simply an interruption of that line. It's probably closer to this triangle geometry in ZvP and ZvZ though.

But yeah, it's definitely something Protoss players can learn from...I think we're so used to having the deathball that can walk over everything that we're not AS used to positioning as the other races. Either way, I'm learning that some simple positional play goes a really long way when playing protoss (example: again, in that First vs. FantaSy game, First ALWAYS does warpins in multiple locations whenever FantaSy moves out).
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Otolia
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
France5805 Posts
August 24 2013 11:00 GMT
#4
No. Protoss players should all suffer miserable losses. It's even a joke that the only way to win against a Protoss early game is to pull SCVs.
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
August 24 2013 11:11 GMT
#5
On August 24 2013 20:00 Otolia wrote:
No. Protoss players should all suffer miserable losses. It's even a joke that the only way to win against a Protoss early game is to pull SCVs.


Don't hate on us because Blizzard refuses to notice that this matchup is extraordinarily imbalanced. I have no idea why Blizzard has chosen to turn a blind eye to this matchup when it has arguably all the same problems as classic PvZ.

That being said, terran doesn't HAVE to pull SCVs. It's just ungodly powerful and nearly impossible to stop if you do.
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-24 15:43:49
August 24 2013 14:01 GMT
#6
And might I point out G4 and G5 of First vs. aLive, where First did THE SAME THING over and over again. Protoss players: look to this, this is how you stay alive against maxed out terran pushes.

EDIT: you can even see that First uses THE SAME positioning I outlined in my graphic on Akilon
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Team League
12:00
Group B
WardiTV1006
TKL 231
IndyStarCraft 191
Rex114
3DClanTV 61
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
TKL 231
IndyStarCraft 191
Rex 114
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 31211
Jaedong 2800
Larva 1268
BeSt 844
Soma 751
EffOrt 571
Mini 529
ZerO 416
Stork 369
firebathero 297
[ Show more ]
actioN 296
Rush 271
Snow 270
ggaemo 232
Light 101
JYJ 62
Aegong 53
Sea.KH 47
sSak 34
sorry 27
IntoTheRainbow 26
Bale 23
Terrorterran 20
scan(afreeca) 19
Rock 16
soO 13
GoRush 13
ajuk12(nOOB) 13
zelot 12
Dota 2
Gorgc4791
qojqva1998
syndereN197
Counter-Strike
fl0m993
byalli426
adren_tv35
Heroes of the Storm
crisheroes295
Other Games
singsing2371
B2W.Neo946
hiko644
FrodaN400
Beastyqt283
Fuzer 184
ArmadaUGS114
Trikslyr36
ZerO(Twitch)19
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream13195
Other Games
gamesdonequick888
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 11
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Response 1
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• Noizen37
League of Legends
• Nemesis3402
• Jankos1845
• TFBlade1044
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
8h 13m
Replay Cast
1d 8h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 18h
RSL Revival
1d 18h
WardiTV Team League
1d 20h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
Patches Events
2 days
BSL
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Team League
2 days
BSL
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
WardiTV Team League
4 days
GSL
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
WardiTV Team League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-11
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
BSL Season 22
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

CSL Elite League 2026
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
2026 Changsha Offline CUP
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
CSLAN 4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
NationLESS Cup
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.