• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:14
CEST 04:14
KST 11:14
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners5Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June2Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th151Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League6
StarCraft 2
General
TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Douyu Cup 2026 Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected Welcome to the External Content forum
Brood War
General
Data needed Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW fans in southern Sweden, look here! 25 Years Since Brood War Patch 1.08
Tourneys
[BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST [ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Any training maps people recommend? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread PC Games Sales Thread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Summer Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Canadian Politics Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Cricket [SPORT] NBA General Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Streaming Impacts Game P…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6568 users

SC2 Notes: PvT Solution Using Geometry

Blogs > SC2John
Post a Reply
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
August 23 2013 17:26 GMT
#1
_

If you're a protoss player, does this look familiar?

[image loading]

Yes, the bullshit "SCV pull before you have storm" strategy. It seems to be the thing now that we see in almost every pro TvP. If it's not that, it's just a really powerful maxout with mass barracks units before the 3rd is fully established and storm is plentiful. So, as a protoss player, how do we deal with this? A few weeks ago, Day9 did a daily on First vs. FantaSy in the OSL Ro16. In said game, First demolished FantaSy's attempts at mine drops, hellbat drops, and easily deflected most of FantaSy's deadly attacks. While I won't focus on the mine drops now (see older blog post here), I will focus on how First managed to parry FantaSy's really strong direct pushes. And I will do so using geometry.

[image loading]

In my crude drawing, I've created 2 examples using blue for the protoss army and red for the terran army. In the top drawing, we see what happens when a protoss player engages a terran player directly in an open field or at a ramp. If we take a minute and ignore viking positioning and stalker positioning and all that, we see that generally both groups engage each other in straight lines. In this situation, the protoss player has templar trailing in the back of the army, meaning that terran can easily spot templar and (with good micro) snipe/EMP the templar. The terran also has plenty of room to spread and kite against zealots/storms/colossus, and this means that terran can also get a good arc (as shown).

HOWEVER, the second example shows a protoss player who pulls VERY far back, keeping zealots/templars on flanks. You can see this in action in the Day9 daily, P2. In this example, the protoss naturally surrounds the terran army and leaves them no place to run. The protoss player also naturally chokes the terran player with how their army moves and how the surround works. In an actual terrain choke, this is even stronger. This particular tactic is SUPER strong and works very very well against these horrible maxed out attacks that feel so impossible. Here is another drawing to further illustrate my point:

[image loading]

As you can see, there's a natural pincer movement you get from moving your main army back. If you were to have your main army at the ramp, you would have a straight line of engagement with all of your templar behind your army. Yes, they would come at slightly different angles, but they would still all come from the same general direction. By pulling back your main army, you're essentially setting up a huge concave.

Anyways, just been thinking about this, especially after seeing bullshit push after bullshit push in professional games and noticing protoss players trying to engage in a direct line. I want to try to focus on this in my play more, and I hope this helps others as well!

:D

_

**
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Ktk
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Korea (South)753 Posts
August 24 2013 08:09 GMT
#2
Also known as: how zerg players win?
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
August 24 2013 10:52 GMT
#3
On August 24 2013 17:09 Ktk wrote:
Also known as: how zerg players win?


Except against 4M, because that's actually impossible ;p.

But seriously, ZvT geometry looks a little bit different just because of how mines/tanks are placed. Generally the terran army looks like a straight line from their base to yours, where the weakest points are simply an interruption of that line. It's probably closer to this triangle geometry in ZvP and ZvZ though.

But yeah, it's definitely something Protoss players can learn from...I think we're so used to having the deathball that can walk over everything that we're not AS used to positioning as the other races. Either way, I'm learning that some simple positional play goes a really long way when playing protoss (example: again, in that First vs. FantaSy game, First ALWAYS does warpins in multiple locations whenever FantaSy moves out).
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Otolia
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
France5805 Posts
August 24 2013 11:00 GMT
#4
No. Protoss players should all suffer miserable losses. It's even a joke that the only way to win against a Protoss early game is to pull SCVs.
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
August 24 2013 11:11 GMT
#5
On August 24 2013 20:00 Otolia wrote:
No. Protoss players should all suffer miserable losses. It's even a joke that the only way to win against a Protoss early game is to pull SCVs.


Don't hate on us because Blizzard refuses to notice that this matchup is extraordinarily imbalanced. I have no idea why Blizzard has chosen to turn a blind eye to this matchup when it has arguably all the same problems as classic PvZ.

That being said, terran doesn't HAVE to pull SCVs. It's just ungodly powerful and nearly impossible to stop if you do.
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-24 15:43:49
August 24 2013 14:01 GMT
#6
And might I point out G4 and G5 of First vs. aLive, where First did THE SAME THING over and over again. Protoss players: look to this, this is how you stay alive against maxed out terran pushes.

EDIT: you can even see that First uses THE SAME positioning I outlined in my graphic on Akilon
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
StarCraft Evolution League #22
LiquipediaDiscussion
OSC
22:30
OSC Elite Rising Star #19
davetesta26
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
NeuroSwarm 206
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 3032
GuemChi 2377
Rain 2331
Mind 32
Noble 12
League of Legends
Doublelift5858
JimRising 623
Counter-Strike
m0e_tv576
Other Games
summit1g9477
Day[9].tv1213
Artosis596
C9.Mang0535
ViBE139
Maynarde108
Temp020
kaitlyn15
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV184
StarCraft 2
CranKy Ducklings118
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 75
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP24
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21281
Other Games
• Day9tv1213
Upcoming Events
OSC
10h 46m
Maestros of the Game
11h 46m
Classic vs Maru
Serral vs herO
TBD vs Clem
Replay Cast
21h 46m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 7h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 12h
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
1d 16h
eOnzErG vs Mihu
Messiah vs XuanXuan
Jaystar vs TerrOr
Dewalt vs Bonyth
eOnzErG vs XuanXuan
Mihu vs TerrOr
Messiah vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
2 days
Jaystar vs Dewalt
eOnzErG vs TerrOr
XuanXuan vs Bonyth
Mihu vs Dewalt
Messiah vs Jaystar
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
TerrOr vs Dewalt
OSC
2 days
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
3 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Season 22
2026 GSL S2
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
Acropolis #4 - GSB
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Murky Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #3
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.