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SC2 Notes: PvT Solution Using Geometry

Blogs > SC2John
Post a Reply
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
August 23 2013 17:26 GMT
#1
_

If you're a protoss player, does this look familiar?

[image loading]

Yes, the bullshit "SCV pull before you have storm" strategy. It seems to be the thing now that we see in almost every pro TvP. If it's not that, it's just a really powerful maxout with mass barracks units before the 3rd is fully established and storm is plentiful. So, as a protoss player, how do we deal with this? A few weeks ago, Day9 did a daily on First vs. FantaSy in the OSL Ro16. In said game, First demolished FantaSy's attempts at mine drops, hellbat drops, and easily deflected most of FantaSy's deadly attacks. While I won't focus on the mine drops now (see older blog post here), I will focus on how First managed to parry FantaSy's really strong direct pushes. And I will do so using geometry.

[image loading]

In my crude drawing, I've created 2 examples using blue for the protoss army and red for the terran army. In the top drawing, we see what happens when a protoss player engages a terran player directly in an open field or at a ramp. If we take a minute and ignore viking positioning and stalker positioning and all that, we see that generally both groups engage each other in straight lines. In this situation, the protoss player has templar trailing in the back of the army, meaning that terran can easily spot templar and (with good micro) snipe/EMP the templar. The terran also has plenty of room to spread and kite against zealots/storms/colossus, and this means that terran can also get a good arc (as shown).

HOWEVER, the second example shows a protoss player who pulls VERY far back, keeping zealots/templars on flanks. You can see this in action in the Day9 daily, P2. In this example, the protoss naturally surrounds the terran army and leaves them no place to run. The protoss player also naturally chokes the terran player with how their army moves and how the surround works. In an actual terrain choke, this is even stronger. This particular tactic is SUPER strong and works very very well against these horrible maxed out attacks that feel so impossible. Here is another drawing to further illustrate my point:

[image loading]

As you can see, there's a natural pincer movement you get from moving your main army back. If you were to have your main army at the ramp, you would have a straight line of engagement with all of your templar behind your army. Yes, they would come at slightly different angles, but they would still all come from the same general direction. By pulling back your main army, you're essentially setting up a huge concave.

Anyways, just been thinking about this, especially after seeing bullshit push after bullshit push in professional games and noticing protoss players trying to engage in a direct line. I want to try to focus on this in my play more, and I hope this helps others as well!

:D

_

**
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Ktk
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Korea (South)753 Posts
August 24 2013 08:09 GMT
#2
Also known as: how zerg players win?
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
August 24 2013 10:52 GMT
#3
On August 24 2013 17:09 Ktk wrote:
Also known as: how zerg players win?


Except against 4M, because that's actually impossible ;p.

But seriously, ZvT geometry looks a little bit different just because of how mines/tanks are placed. Generally the terran army looks like a straight line from their base to yours, where the weakest points are simply an interruption of that line. It's probably closer to this triangle geometry in ZvP and ZvZ though.

But yeah, it's definitely something Protoss players can learn from...I think we're so used to having the deathball that can walk over everything that we're not AS used to positioning as the other races. Either way, I'm learning that some simple positional play goes a really long way when playing protoss (example: again, in that First vs. FantaSy game, First ALWAYS does warpins in multiple locations whenever FantaSy moves out).
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Otolia
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
France5805 Posts
August 24 2013 11:00 GMT
#4
No. Protoss players should all suffer miserable losses. It's even a joke that the only way to win against a Protoss early game is to pull SCVs.
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
August 24 2013 11:11 GMT
#5
On August 24 2013 20:00 Otolia wrote:
No. Protoss players should all suffer miserable losses. It's even a joke that the only way to win against a Protoss early game is to pull SCVs.


Don't hate on us because Blizzard refuses to notice that this matchup is extraordinarily imbalanced. I have no idea why Blizzard has chosen to turn a blind eye to this matchup when it has arguably all the same problems as classic PvZ.

That being said, terran doesn't HAVE to pull SCVs. It's just ungodly powerful and nearly impossible to stop if you do.
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-24 15:43:49
August 24 2013 14:01 GMT
#6
And might I point out G4 and G5 of First vs. aLive, where First did THE SAME THING over and over again. Protoss players: look to this, this is how you stay alive against maxed out terran pushes.

EDIT: you can even see that First uses THE SAME positioning I outlined in my graphic on Akilon
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
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