• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 19:22
CET 01:22
KST 09:22
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT29Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Team Liquid Map Contest - Preparation Notice6Weekly Cups (Feb 23-Mar 1): herO doubles, 2v2 bonanza1Weekly Cups (Feb 16-22): MaxPax doubles0Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up2ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0258
StarCraft 2
General
How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Team Liquid Map Contest - Preparation Notice ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker Weekly Cups (Feb 23-Mar 1): herO doubles, 2v2 bonanza
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000 WardiTV Winter Championship 2026 RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 515 Together Forever Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare
Brood War
General
Effort misses out on ASL S21 BW General Discussion Gypsy to Korea BSL 22 Map Contest — Submissions OPEN to March 10 BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[BSL22] Open Qualifier #1 - Sunday 21:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 BWCL Season 64 Announcement
Strategy
Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Diablo 2 thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Gaming-Related Deaths
TrAiDoS
ONE GREAT AMERICAN MARINE…
XenOsky
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1701 users

SC2 Notes: PvT Solution Using Geometry

Blogs > SC2John
Post a Reply
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
August 23 2013 17:26 GMT
#1
_

If you're a protoss player, does this look familiar?

[image loading]

Yes, the bullshit "SCV pull before you have storm" strategy. It seems to be the thing now that we see in almost every pro TvP. If it's not that, it's just a really powerful maxout with mass barracks units before the 3rd is fully established and storm is plentiful. So, as a protoss player, how do we deal with this? A few weeks ago, Day9 did a daily on First vs. FantaSy in the OSL Ro16. In said game, First demolished FantaSy's attempts at mine drops, hellbat drops, and easily deflected most of FantaSy's deadly attacks. While I won't focus on the mine drops now (see older blog post here), I will focus on how First managed to parry FantaSy's really strong direct pushes. And I will do so using geometry.

[image loading]

In my crude drawing, I've created 2 examples using blue for the protoss army and red for the terran army. In the top drawing, we see what happens when a protoss player engages a terran player directly in an open field or at a ramp. If we take a minute and ignore viking positioning and stalker positioning and all that, we see that generally both groups engage each other in straight lines. In this situation, the protoss player has templar trailing in the back of the army, meaning that terran can easily spot templar and (with good micro) snipe/EMP the templar. The terran also has plenty of room to spread and kite against zealots/storms/colossus, and this means that terran can also get a good arc (as shown).

HOWEVER, the second example shows a protoss player who pulls VERY far back, keeping zealots/templars on flanks. You can see this in action in the Day9 daily, P2. In this example, the protoss naturally surrounds the terran army and leaves them no place to run. The protoss player also naturally chokes the terran player with how their army moves and how the surround works. In an actual terrain choke, this is even stronger. This particular tactic is SUPER strong and works very very well against these horrible maxed out attacks that feel so impossible. Here is another drawing to further illustrate my point:

[image loading]

As you can see, there's a natural pincer movement you get from moving your main army back. If you were to have your main army at the ramp, you would have a straight line of engagement with all of your templar behind your army. Yes, they would come at slightly different angles, but they would still all come from the same general direction. By pulling back your main army, you're essentially setting up a huge concave.

Anyways, just been thinking about this, especially after seeing bullshit push after bullshit push in professional games and noticing protoss players trying to engage in a direct line. I want to try to focus on this in my play more, and I hope this helps others as well!

:D

_

**
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Ktk
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Korea (South)753 Posts
August 24 2013 08:09 GMT
#2
Also known as: how zerg players win?
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
August 24 2013 10:52 GMT
#3
On August 24 2013 17:09 Ktk wrote:
Also known as: how zerg players win?


Except against 4M, because that's actually impossible ;p.

But seriously, ZvT geometry looks a little bit different just because of how mines/tanks are placed. Generally the terran army looks like a straight line from their base to yours, where the weakest points are simply an interruption of that line. It's probably closer to this triangle geometry in ZvP and ZvZ though.

But yeah, it's definitely something Protoss players can learn from...I think we're so used to having the deathball that can walk over everything that we're not AS used to positioning as the other races. Either way, I'm learning that some simple positional play goes a really long way when playing protoss (example: again, in that First vs. FantaSy game, First ALWAYS does warpins in multiple locations whenever FantaSy moves out).
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Otolia
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
France5805 Posts
August 24 2013 11:00 GMT
#4
No. Protoss players should all suffer miserable losses. It's even a joke that the only way to win against a Protoss early game is to pull SCVs.
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
August 24 2013 11:11 GMT
#5
On August 24 2013 20:00 Otolia wrote:
No. Protoss players should all suffer miserable losses. It's even a joke that the only way to win against a Protoss early game is to pull SCVs.


Don't hate on us because Blizzard refuses to notice that this matchup is extraordinarily imbalanced. I have no idea why Blizzard has chosen to turn a blind eye to this matchup when it has arguably all the same problems as classic PvZ.

That being said, terran doesn't HAVE to pull SCVs. It's just ungodly powerful and nearly impossible to stop if you do.
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-24 15:43:49
August 24 2013 14:01 GMT
#6
And might I point out G4 and G5 of First vs. aLive, where First did THE SAME THING over and over again. Protoss players: look to this, this is how you stay alive against maxed out terran pushes.

EDIT: you can even see that First uses THE SAME positioning I outlined in my graphic on Akilon
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
LiuLi Cup Grand Finals Playoff
CranKy Ducklings50
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SteadfastSC 246
ProTech152
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 9006
Shuttle 527
Artosis 343
ggaemo 150
Dota 2
monkeys_forever318
Counter-Strike
Fnx 3028
taco 263
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King66
PPMD42
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor124
Other Games
summit1g9968
shahzam578
Day[9].tv467
C9.Mang0213
capcasts38
ViBE32
Chillindude22
Liquid`Ken4
minikerr2
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV38
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 455
• musti20045 28
• davetesta15
• Response 1
• Kozan
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 12
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2929
Other Games
• imaqtpie748
• Scarra585
• Day9tv467
Upcoming Events
Ultimate Battle
11h 38m
Light vs ZerO
WardiTV Winter Champion…
11h 38m
MaxPax vs Spirit
Rogue vs Bunny
Cure vs SHIN
Solar vs Zoun
OSC
17h 38m
Replay Cast
23h 38m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 9h
WardiTV Winter Champion…
1d 11h
Replay Cast
1d 23h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
OSC
3 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-04
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026
WardiTV Winter 2026
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 21: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 21: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
CSLAN 4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.