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On August 21 2013 10:11 thezanursic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 07:04 Sayle wrote:On August 21 2013 06:24 thezanursic wrote:On August 20 2013 00:25 Sayle wrote:On August 19 2013 23:54 thezanursic wrote:On August 19 2013 22:15 Sayle wrote:On August 19 2013 18:42 thezanursic wrote:
Also in PvP if I go for 12 nex and my opponent goes 8 pylon and scouts me on his first try should I 12/12 as I did or can I do something more optimal? If he knows what you're doing and blocks your nexus, I don't think you can do anything besides 12/12. A lot of players haven't seen 12nex before though (maybe no longer true on iccup...) so you can sometimes just place the nexus anyway. In theory, you should be able to defend a followup 2gate from him especially since he lost so many early minerals doing a pylon scout. You are basically infamous for doing 12 nex can you please give me a tip or two how to transition after you have your 4 gateways pumping goons relative to your opponent of course. I tried to look through the thread, but there's nothing specific and also the replays don't show what I needed to see. Thanks for your help anyway! Assuming that you went for the 'normal' 4-5 gate followup to defend your 12nex and didn't suffer too much damage to his initial attack (if any), you should be in a really good mid-game position and can follow up however you like. I usually skip reavers and go straight for templar tech since I find that to be stronger in lategame situations. I don't really have any specific transitions or advice for you. Just keep macroing and ride your build advantage into the lategame. Try to make fewer dragoons and more archons/speedlots. Remember that it's a mirror matchup so as long as you start out ahead and don't fuck up too badly, you should be able to win. Usually, but when it comes to another FEing toss (whom are usually a lot better than me) just have so much better transitions than me and end up edging out that lead that just kills me. Then why don't you watch the replay and copy their transitions? This is why I love playing mirror matchups. If you lose, you can just copy what the other guy did. Also what do I do in the rare case of a 12 on 12 nex?
expand again, how dare he try to get econ advantage over you!
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United Kingdom3685 Posts
On August 21 2013 07:08 thezanursic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 07:04 Sayle wrote:On August 21 2013 06:24 thezanursic wrote:On August 20 2013 00:25 Sayle wrote:On August 19 2013 23:54 thezanursic wrote:On August 19 2013 22:15 Sayle wrote:On August 19 2013 18:42 thezanursic wrote:
Also in PvP if I go for 12 nex and my opponent goes 8 pylon and scouts me on his first try should I 12/12 as I did or can I do something more optimal? If he knows what you're doing and blocks your nexus, I don't think you can do anything besides 12/12. A lot of players haven't seen 12nex before though (maybe no longer true on iccup...) so you can sometimes just place the nexus anyway. In theory, you should be able to defend a followup 2gate from him especially since he lost so many early minerals doing a pylon scout. You are basically infamous for doing 12 nex can you please give me a tip or two how to transition after you have your 4 gateways pumping goons relative to your opponent of course. I tried to look through the thread, but there's nothing specific and also the replays don't show what I needed to see. Thanks for your help anyway! Assuming that you went for the 'normal' 4-5 gate followup to defend your 12nex and didn't suffer too much damage to his initial attack (if any), you should be in a really good mid-game position and can follow up however you like. I usually skip reavers and go straight for templar tech since I find that to be stronger in lategame situations. I don't really have any specific transitions or advice for you. Just keep macroing and ride your build advantage into the lategame. Try to make fewer dragoons and more archons/speedlots. Remember that it's a mirror matchup so as long as you start out ahead and don't fuck up too badly, you should be able to win. Usually, but when it comes to another FEing toss (whom are usually a lot better than me) just have so much better transitions than me and end up edging out that lead that just kills me. Then why don't you watch the replay and copy their transitions? This is why I love playing mirror matchups. If you lose, you can just copy what the other guy did. They don't necessarly go the same type of FE. I mean yes I'm trying to learn from them as well, but sadly I don't have an actual resource (Progames) where I could copy the transition to the letter.
If you go for 12nex and he responds by doing a non-12 nex FE, you should be way ahead. If you both go for 12 nex and you still lose, this is the ideal situation to learn from. You went for mirror builds in a mirror matchup, so it should be very easy to identify at what point the game diverged and what caused you to lose. Did he get a citadel faster than you? Expand faster? Do better drop harass? Whatever he did better than you, you should copy.
For some general guidelines, if you go 12nex vs 12nex you can skip/delay the forge and stop making zealots as soon as you scout him (so you don't need to make five) unless he keeps making them (in which case you should match him defensively). Also, what dRaW said.
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On August 21 2013 17:25 Sayle wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 07:08 thezanursic wrote:On August 21 2013 07:04 Sayle wrote:On August 21 2013 06:24 thezanursic wrote:On August 20 2013 00:25 Sayle wrote:On August 19 2013 23:54 thezanursic wrote:On August 19 2013 22:15 Sayle wrote:On August 19 2013 18:42 thezanursic wrote:
Also in PvP if I go for 12 nex and my opponent goes 8 pylon and scouts me on his first try should I 12/12 as I did or can I do something more optimal? If he knows what you're doing and blocks your nexus, I don't think you can do anything besides 12/12. A lot of players haven't seen 12nex before though (maybe no longer true on iccup...) so you can sometimes just place the nexus anyway. In theory, you should be able to defend a followup 2gate from him especially since he lost so many early minerals doing a pylon scout. You are basically infamous for doing 12 nex can you please give me a tip or two how to transition after you have your 4 gateways pumping goons relative to your opponent of course. I tried to look through the thread, but there's nothing specific and also the replays don't show what I needed to see. Thanks for your help anyway! Assuming that you went for the 'normal' 4-5 gate followup to defend your 12nex and didn't suffer too much damage to his initial attack (if any), you should be in a really good mid-game position and can follow up however you like. I usually skip reavers and go straight for templar tech since I find that to be stronger in lategame situations. I don't really have any specific transitions or advice for you. Just keep macroing and ride your build advantage into the lategame. Try to make fewer dragoons and more archons/speedlots. Remember that it's a mirror matchup so as long as you start out ahead and don't fuck up too badly, you should be able to win. Usually, but when it comes to another FEing toss (whom are usually a lot better than me) just have so much better transitions than me and end up edging out that lead that just kills me. Then why don't you watch the replay and copy their transitions? This is why I love playing mirror matchups. If you lose, you can just copy what the other guy did. They don't necessarly go the same type of FE. I mean yes I'm trying to learn from them as well, but sadly I don't have an actual resource (Progames) where I could copy the transition to the letter. If you go for 12nex and he responds by doing a non-12 nex FE, you should be way ahead. If you both go for 12 nex and you still lose, this is the ideal situation to learn from. You went for mirror builds in a mirror matchup, so it should be very easy to identify at what point the game diverged and what caused you to lose. Did he get a citadel faster than you? Expand faster? Do better drop harass? Whatever he did better than you, you should copy. For some general guidelines, if you go 12nex vs 12nex you can skip/delay the forge and stop making zealots as soon as you scout him (so you don't need to make five) unless he keeps making them (in which case you should match him defensively). Also, what dRaW said.
When I played a 12 nex vs 12 nex. I won, but I think that he had the better transition it's just that his micro was abysmal. I delayed my forge by A LOT and went for 4 quick gateways and pumped goons instead of cannons.
Next time I'm going to experiment with cutting a round of zealots as well. Thanks for the help Sayle I really appreciate it 
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On August 21 2013 16:38 dRaW wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 10:11 thezanursic wrote:On August 21 2013 07:04 Sayle wrote:On August 21 2013 06:24 thezanursic wrote:On August 20 2013 00:25 Sayle wrote:On August 19 2013 23:54 thezanursic wrote:On August 19 2013 22:15 Sayle wrote:On August 19 2013 18:42 thezanursic wrote:
Also in PvP if I go for 12 nex and my opponent goes 8 pylon and scouts me on his first try should I 12/12 as I did or can I do something more optimal? If he knows what you're doing and blocks your nexus, I don't think you can do anything besides 12/12. A lot of players haven't seen 12nex before though (maybe no longer true on iccup...) so you can sometimes just place the nexus anyway. In theory, you should be able to defend a followup 2gate from him especially since he lost so many early minerals doing a pylon scout. You are basically infamous for doing 12 nex can you please give me a tip or two how to transition after you have your 4 gateways pumping goons relative to your opponent of course. I tried to look through the thread, but there's nothing specific and also the replays don't show what I needed to see. Thanks for your help anyway! Assuming that you went for the 'normal' 4-5 gate followup to defend your 12nex and didn't suffer too much damage to his initial attack (if any), you should be in a really good mid-game position and can follow up however you like. I usually skip reavers and go straight for templar tech since I find that to be stronger in lategame situations. I don't really have any specific transitions or advice for you. Just keep macroing and ride your build advantage into the lategame. Try to make fewer dragoons and more archons/speedlots. Remember that it's a mirror matchup so as long as you start out ahead and don't fuck up too badly, you should be able to win. Usually, but when it comes to another FEing toss (whom are usually a lot better than me) just have so much better transitions than me and end up edging out that lead that just kills me. Then why don't you watch the replay and copy their transitions? This is why I love playing mirror matchups. If you lose, you can just copy what the other guy did. Also what do I do in the rare case of a 12 on 12 nex? expand again, how dare he try to get econ advantage over you!
While this is the obvious answer, I am still lacking the gamse sense to know when to expand vs another 12 nex. That's why I'm asking for help. I mean at this point I have learned quite a couple of ins and outs versus 2 gate builfs and 1 gate cores, but my experience with other 12 nex is limited to say the least.
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EPT
