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Some PvT timings

Blogs > SC2John
Post a Reply
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-28 14:25:29
July 28 2013 14:24 GMT
#1
Some terran timings:
(Do I really need to probe scout?)

+ Show Spoiler +
13 scout (~2:40):
standard walloff not complete
no units complete
~50-100 gas mined
(-0 gas for 15 gas)

18 scout (~3:30):
Full walloff
Expand starting
reaper OR marine out
factory/reactor halfway done OR
reactor done, factory starting
~150-200 gas mined
(-50-100 gas for 15 gas)

MsC scout/stalker poke (~5:30-6:00):
Expand finishing or done
tech choice for terran
-CC + 2 rax + addons
-CC + 3 rax + techlab
-reactor factory
-reactor rax + factory + CC
-reactor rax + factory + starport
~400 gas mined


Some other timings:

First widow mine: 5:15-6:00
First reaper: 3:30-3:45
2rax reaper: 4:30-5:00
Hellion runbys: ~6:00
Widow mine drops: 6:30-7:00
Hellbat drops: 7:30-8:00
Non-medivac aggression: 8:30-9:00
Medivac aggression: ~10:00


Conclusions:
While an early scout MAY give me some additional information and help me understand exactly what my opponent is doing, it seems that I can get by without a scout until 5:30. This is primarily because:

1) Any early pressure (pre-5:30) can be thwarted by 1-2 early stalkers and photon overcharge. At the worst, I will have to sacrifice my natural nexus. And
2) Scouting at 5:30 only gives me a better picture of what my opponent is doing and narrows down the possible plays by A LOT.

Honestly, I think this makes it easier to defend as well, since I can divide terran aggression into generally 4 stages:

1) Cheese (3:30-5:30)
+ Show Spoiler +
a) proxy rax/proxy factory
+ Show Spoiler +
1) 2rax marines
2) 8-8-8
3) proxy widow mines
4) thor rush?

b) some kind of SCV pull

2) Early attacks/drops (6:00-7:30)
+ Show Spoiler +
a) hellion runbys
b) marine/widow mine pressure
c) widow mine drops
d) hellbat drops
e) banshees?

3) Pre-medivac/stim pressure (7:30-9:00)
+ Show Spoiler +
a) mass marine attacks
b) early add-ons -> stim but no medivacs
c) marine/tank attacks
d) possible drop threats -> no stim

4) medivac pressure (9:30+)
+ Show Spoiler +
a) 3rax medivac + expansion OR
b)5 rax medivac


Defending 1 is easy with photon overcharge and good stalker micro. The second group requires good positioning and potentially a cannon or two in the mineral lines. Dealing with the 3rd group requires some early warpins, maybe earlier extra gates. The 4th group is standard, but I think it's important to understand exactly what the terran is throwing at you and how early you can get a 3rd.

*
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Caissa
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States48 Posts
July 28 2013 14:49 GMT
#2
The main reason i am hesitant to scout at 5:30 with the msc is because
a) If it gets picked off, I become incredibly vulnerable to a timing, note that If I recall, I usually have less energy than when I just let it die
b) Terrans in my league meta like to push out with marines at around 5:30 to clear off a fast stalker with missmicro, pick off the core, or run straight into the nat and kill some probes, which my msc will not be in place to overcharge
Don't underestimate the value of Doing Nothing, of just going along, listening to all the things you can't hear, and not bothering.
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
July 28 2013 15:50 GMT
#3
On July 28 2013 23:49 Caissa wrote:
The main reason i am hesitant to scout at 5:30 with the msc is because
a) If it gets picked off, I become incredibly vulnerable to a timing, note that If I recall, I usually have less energy than when I just let it die
b) Terrans in my league meta like to push out with marines at around 5:30 to clear off a fast stalker with missmicro, pick off the core, or run straight into the nat and kill some probes, which my msc will not be in place to overcharge


Well, to note some things:

1) On maps like Newkirk or Akilon or Bel'Shir Vestige, this is a pretty safe scout that SHOULD NOT get picked off unless you're not paying attention to your MsC and run into a bunch of marines in his main. You don't have to go all the way into the base or try to harass SCVs, all you need to do is get a general read on your opponent. Using the gas timings I have outlined, you should also get a good idea if your opponent went for an early gas or not. (Sidenote: Also, a really good place to scout is the initial rax to see if it has a reactor or tech lab or the reactor has been given to factory, etc.)

2) At 5:30, the most your opponent can have is 5-6 marines with a 1rax FE. If your opponent opens with a fast gas, he generally won't have a widow mine either. If you're doing a zealot/stalker poke, you will murder those marines hard unless there's a bunker up. If you're only scouting with MsC, you just want to leave everything positioned safely back at home (stalker + 2 sentries) and that will be plenty to kill off a little pack of marines.

So...in my opinion, it's pretty safe to do this because there's just not a lot terran can do about it.
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
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