• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:36
CET 16:36
KST 00:36
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.172Evil Geniuses - shutting down17ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League88
StarCraft 2
General
REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.17 Evil Geniuses - shutting down How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR?
Tourneys
2026 KungFu Cup Announcement RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Simple Questions/Answers [G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 548 Shining Bright Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror
Brood War
General
[BW] Looking for Clan Thread! BW General Discussion [ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory! Recent recommended BW games [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [$1250] International ShieldBattery League KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4 [BSL23] RO24 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes? General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9308 users

Some PvT timings

Blogs > SC2John
Post a Reply
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-28 14:25:29
July 28 2013 14:24 GMT
#1
Some terran timings:
(Do I really need to probe scout?)

+ Show Spoiler +
13 scout (~2:40):
standard walloff not complete
no units complete
~50-100 gas mined
(-0 gas for 15 gas)

18 scout (~3:30):
Full walloff
Expand starting
reaper OR marine out
factory/reactor halfway done OR
reactor done, factory starting
~150-200 gas mined
(-50-100 gas for 15 gas)

MsC scout/stalker poke (~5:30-6:00):
Expand finishing or done
tech choice for terran
-CC + 2 rax + addons
-CC + 3 rax + techlab
-reactor factory
-reactor rax + factory + CC
-reactor rax + factory + starport
~400 gas mined


Some other timings:

First widow mine: 5:15-6:00
First reaper: 3:30-3:45
2rax reaper: 4:30-5:00
Hellion runbys: ~6:00
Widow mine drops: 6:30-7:00
Hellbat drops: 7:30-8:00
Non-medivac aggression: 8:30-9:00
Medivac aggression: ~10:00


Conclusions:
While an early scout MAY give me some additional information and help me understand exactly what my opponent is doing, it seems that I can get by without a scout until 5:30. This is primarily because:

1) Any early pressure (pre-5:30) can be thwarted by 1-2 early stalkers and photon overcharge. At the worst, I will have to sacrifice my natural nexus. And
2) Scouting at 5:30 only gives me a better picture of what my opponent is doing and narrows down the possible plays by A LOT.

Honestly, I think this makes it easier to defend as well, since I can divide terran aggression into generally 4 stages:

1) Cheese (3:30-5:30)
+ Show Spoiler +
a) proxy rax/proxy factory
+ Show Spoiler +
1) 2rax marines
2) 8-8-8
3) proxy widow mines
4) thor rush?

b) some kind of SCV pull

2) Early attacks/drops (6:00-7:30)
+ Show Spoiler +
a) hellion runbys
b) marine/widow mine pressure
c) widow mine drops
d) hellbat drops
e) banshees?

3) Pre-medivac/stim pressure (7:30-9:00)
+ Show Spoiler +
a) mass marine attacks
b) early add-ons -> stim but no medivacs
c) marine/tank attacks
d) possible drop threats -> no stim

4) medivac pressure (9:30+)
+ Show Spoiler +
a) 3rax medivac + expansion OR
b)5 rax medivac


Defending 1 is easy with photon overcharge and good stalker micro. The second group requires good positioning and potentially a cannon or two in the mineral lines. Dealing with the 3rd group requires some early warpins, maybe earlier extra gates. The 4th group is standard, but I think it's important to understand exactly what the terran is throwing at you and how early you can get a 3rd.

*
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Caissa
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States48 Posts
July 28 2013 14:49 GMT
#2
The main reason i am hesitant to scout at 5:30 with the msc is because
a) If it gets picked off, I become incredibly vulnerable to a timing, note that If I recall, I usually have less energy than when I just let it die
b) Terrans in my league meta like to push out with marines at around 5:30 to clear off a fast stalker with missmicro, pick off the core, or run straight into the nat and kill some probes, which my msc will not be in place to overcharge
Don't underestimate the value of Doing Nothing, of just going along, listening to all the things you can't hear, and not bothering.
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
July 28 2013 15:50 GMT
#3
On July 28 2013 23:49 Caissa wrote:
The main reason i am hesitant to scout at 5:30 with the msc is because
a) If it gets picked off, I become incredibly vulnerable to a timing, note that If I recall, I usually have less energy than when I just let it die
b) Terrans in my league meta like to push out with marines at around 5:30 to clear off a fast stalker with missmicro, pick off the core, or run straight into the nat and kill some probes, which my msc will not be in place to overcharge


Well, to note some things:

1) On maps like Newkirk or Akilon or Bel'Shir Vestige, this is a pretty safe scout that SHOULD NOT get picked off unless you're not paying attention to your MsC and run into a bunch of marines in his main. You don't have to go all the way into the base or try to harass SCVs, all you need to do is get a general read on your opponent. Using the gas timings I have outlined, you should also get a good idea if your opponent went for an early gas or not. (Sidenote: Also, a really good place to scout is the initial rax to see if it has a reactor or tech lab or the reactor has been given to factory, etc.)

2) At 5:30, the most your opponent can have is 5-6 marines with a 1rax FE. If your opponent opens with a fast gas, he generally won't have a widow mine either. If you're doing a zealot/stalker poke, you will murder those marines hard unless there's a bunker up. If you're only scouting with MsC, you just want to leave everything positioned safely back at home (stalker + 2 sentries) and that will be plenty to kill off a little pack of marines.

So...in my opinion, it's pretty safe to do this because there's just not a lot terran can do about it.
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 18h 24m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko423
Serral 290
SteadfastSC 93
CosmosSc2 34
Codebar 1
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 1726
Soma 1126
Mini 973
BeSt 507
Light 486
Larva 373
Leta 370
actioN 329
Snow 329
hero 238
[ Show more ]
Sharp 99
Dewaltoss 79
Sea.KH 56
Hyun 52
ToSsGirL 33
Sexy 27
Yoon 25
Free 24
HiyA 24
Trap 24
Terrorterran 23
Classic 20
Rock 15
zelot 15
soO 14
Sacsri 13
ajuk12(nOOB) 11
yabsab 9
Dota 2
Gorgc17035
qojqva1326
XaKoH 480
syndereN263
420jenkins190
XcaliburYe128
Heroes of the Storm
crisheroes429
Trikslyr68
Other Games
singsing1920
B2W.Neo1226
hiko1002
Liquid`RaSZi915
Pyrionflax288
RotterdaM241
Liquid`VortiX162
TKL 160
FrodaN146
ArmadaUGS125
mouzStarbuck102
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL31897
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 57
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV332
League of Legends
• Nemesis2436
• TFBlade1006
Other Games
• Shiphtur2
Upcoming Events
KCM Race Survival
18h 24m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
19h 24m
SHIN vs GuMiho
Clem vs Classic
OSC
1d 6h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 20h
GSL
1d 20h
Epic.LAN
1d 21h
Replay Cast
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Epic.LAN
2 days
AI Arena Tournament
3 days
[ Show More ]
Yamato Cup
3 days
Map Test Tournament
4 days
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Rogue vs Classic
Patches Events
5 days
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-27
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

IPSL Winter 2026-27
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.