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Poland10 Posts
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More about overtraining:
-last stadium of overtraining is connected with depression, you need at least a week of rest
-psychological problems > physiological problems, good coach should always ask about your mood, let other people help you, true conversation about your problems => ability to gain skill
-rest at least 5-6 hours between trainings, go outdoor
-overtraining => loosing your coordination, your brain does not work properly, bad ingame habits recorded,
-you feel tired and angry
-get more vitamin, it gives you extra stamina
Now I hope some people will understand why they are loosing games at 4 o'clock in the morning
my first post, cheers 
pabe
  
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You've clearly got a bright future in e-sports training ahead of you. Though I must admit I am still unconvinced that training not enough is better than training too much.
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As much as I like the economic view of this subject, you haven't put any numbers or shown that these graphs are actually pertinent dude. Though I agree with your approach.
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you could be right but...aren't those graphs completely meaningless?
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Poland10 Posts
These graphs are mainly for pro players, who reached their limits and who are looking for 1-2% upgrade in their play. It's obvious that diet is less important to have than experience or intelligence, etc.
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The problem with putting numbers is the point of diminishing returns in training is different for every player. The diagrams are probably meant to show that the concept exists and deserves real attention. We've talked about this some on Pro Corner and coL.QXC has eluded to this in some of his recent videos. Hopefully players will be delve into this themselves or with their coaches and figure out what these thresholds are for optimal training.
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I lose at 4 am because it's 4 am and I haven't slept in a long ass time. Not because I played dota all day, which I did.
I think this is a matter of how you think about it. You should stop when it stops being fun. That's when you stop for a while.
As long as training, say, 12+ hours a day is still fun for you in the long-term, do it. That's how sc1 pros used to do it, in South Korea.
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On June 23 2013 04:05 Baneful wrote:
you could be right but...aren't those graphs completely meaningless?
They're essentially a theory/hypothesis that can be tested, so no.
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On June 23 2013 04:08 pabe wrote:
These graphs are mainly for pro players, who reached their limits and who are looking for 1-2% upgrade in their play. It's obvious that diet is less important to have than experience or intelligence, etc.
1-2% is a HUGE HUGE difference even though it doesn't sound like it on paper 
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It's obvious that the people who train for 12 hours a day for a long time are more successful than those that don't. A good question might be, what is the best way to divide those hours? Is it better to do it all in one sitting (with food/BR breaks of course) or is it better to divide it into several sessions?
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Pretty graphs, care to leave a link that shows why this is provable and not just made up?
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Many of the greatest players are those who play the game "too much" by all standards. If you train so much that you get yourself sick or too tired to play, then your ability to play the game will perhaps diminish. That said, different people have different limits.
There are probably a bunch of variables which affect a person's ability to train for a lot of hours every day. When I was good at Counter Strike 1.6, I could legitimately pull off 12-16 hours in a day and I wouldn't be tired at the end. I had my bad days like everybody but as a general rule I was getting better (slightly, but better nonetheless).
Now if I were to try to train to get better at videogames, I suspect it would stop being constructive after 3-4 hours on a good day. And even if I was serious, now I need to take gaming breaks and after a while, I stop trying to learn or to get better.
So yeah I'm pretty sure it depends on a whole lot of things.
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Poland10 Posts
On June 23 2013 05:39 DavoS wrote:
Pretty graphs, care to leave a link that shows why this is provable and not just made up?
http://www.cos.pl/sw/910_02/85.pdf
Here you have a proof. It is in polish language but I translated more important graphs into english, you can find polish version of them under this link
"OVERTRAINING in SPORT" by Richard Kreider if you want more proofs.
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On June 23 2013 06:09 pabe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2013 05:39 DavoS wrote:
Pretty graphs, care to leave a link that shows why this is provable and not just made up? http://www.cos.pl/sw/910_02/85.pdf Here you have a proof. It is in polish language but I translated more important graphs into english, you can find them under this link "OVERTRAINING in SPORT" by Richard Kreider if you want more proofs.
Does it explain that different people have different thresholds?
Also I believe that the conventional notion of "sports" may be very different from e-sports. It is physically taxing to play games even though many seem to think that the brain and the body are disconnected, but it's still important to make the distinction between "sports" which are mostly physical and "e-sports" which are most of the time technical or outright intellectual.
Perhaps the brain has more of an ability to be consistent. Maybe not, obviously I'm just pointing at potential flaws in the comparison.
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This blog needed two more charts to be a 5/5.
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Yeah... I don't think players should worry about over-training when Koreans are training at like 12+ hour days and getting the benefit from it. Also, I don't think the marginal utility of training would be negative, just close to zero unless you injure something.
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what studies have you conducted to examine overtraining in e-sports? Can you outline the parameters of the study you set up to make these observations?
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Northern Ireland26360 Posts
Koreans can train those hours and benefit because of the infrastructure around them that takes care of many of their needs. Fitting in 12 hours a day, while having to cook your own meals, and generally take care of yourself and getting enough sleep to avoid burnout would be pretty damn difficult without that supporting infrastructure.
In terms of physical terms, I would imagine more > less, unless you are injuring yourself in doing so. The sheer muscle memory and ability to maintain a high useful APM are things that you will gain from consistently playing a LOT of games.
It's the mental/psychological aspect of training that intrigues me. I look at TLO who focused on making a schedule that aims to prevent this and he seems to be benefiting from it.
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Poland10 Posts
On June 23 2013 08:06 Race is Terran wrote:
what studies have you conducted to examine overtraining in e-sports? Can you outline the parameters of the study you set up to make these observations?
Gynecology of E-Sport @ Gdańsk University. Why not ask me straight ahead if e-sport is a sport in my opinion? Than you can clearly answer all your questions. Do my Paint drawings look like I'm dr. House? Crowd here seems so demanding :D
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Poland10 Posts
On June 23 2013 08:46 Wombat_NI wrote:
Koreans can train those hours and benefit because of the infrastructure around them that takes care of many of their needs. Fitting in 12 hours a day, while having to cook your own meals, and generally take care of yourself and getting enough sleep to avoid burnout would be pretty damn difficult without that supporting infrastructure.
In terms of physical terms, I would imagine more > less, unless you are injuring yourself in doing so. The sheer muscle memory and ability to maintain a high useful APM are things that you will gain from consistently playing a LOT of games.
It's the mental/psychological aspect of training that intrigues me. I look at TLO who focused on making a schedule that aims to prevent this and he seems to be benefiting from it.
Yes, I fully agree. TLO is a great example to base on. He very often says about his mental preparations before every tournament.
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needs more arbitrary graphs with more positive correlation and frequency analysis, otherwise, ill say what my uni lecturer once said. "If you have to use charts, construct flow charts and mind map, your design is already broken and the presenter barely understands what they are talking about" .. hey dont shoot me, thats what he said!
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Poland10 Posts
summing up, my first post was really bad
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If think it is stupid to just use training methods from physical sports with supercompensation and transfer them to Esports. Makes no sense at all because your body isn´t addapting to the stimulation he has got by the previous physical exercise.
Practecing Starcraft isn´t comparable with practecing a sport.
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