• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:26
CEST 09:26
KST 16:26
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call4[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3
Community News
Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles2GSTL Returns in 2026!45Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0
StarCraft 2
General
Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away SC4ALL II: SC2 Player Announcement 6/8 - Maru GSTL Returns in 2026! Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Serral wins Maestros of the Game 2
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WORTEX 2026 - Hungarian SC2 Finals Budapest SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Fall 2026 GSTL Announcement
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 540 Dodge This The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome Mutation # 538 Media Blackout
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion [ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Pros React To: First 'Fastest' Map in ASL History [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro24 Group D [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Toronto invitational lan 22 august Brood War in Budapest ! WORTEX 2026 BW Finals
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
Dating: How's your luck? US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
The Creator Fan Club MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Young Players Exit Esports E…
TrAiDoS
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5515 users

Theodicy and Minecraft

Blogs > Jerubaal
Post a Reply
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
June 19 2013 20:06 GMT
#1
Theodicy, if you're not familiar with the term, is the attempt to reconcile the existence of suffering and evil in the world with a just god. The concept is pretty uniquely Judeo-Christian, the term being coined by Leibniz in fact, because, in order to be relevant, it requires both a god that can be addressed and to whom you can apply the notion of justice. That's not to say that an explanation of suffering is not prevalent in historical cultures. Hinduism and Buddhism both evolved, at least in part, to explain and escape suffering. It's hard to imagine that the harsh conditions in which the Vikings and Egyptians lived did not affect their conception of the afterlife. The Vikings embraced the ferocity needed to survive and envisioned the afterlife as one endless battle and the subsequent rewards of victory whereas the Egyptian pharaohs imagined a place where they could be comfortable as they so rarely were in life.

Now what in the hell does this have to do with Minecraft? Well, I was playing Minecraft for the first time as a friend gifted it to me, saving me from the hell Terraria visited upon TotalBiscuit vis a vis Jesse Cox, and I was not a happy camper. In Minecraft, monsters start spawning around you at nighttime, at which point you must be in a shelter. Fighting them is a largely futile enterprise as they spawned quite densely. The best course of action is just to make a mad dash to your shelter. It's more of an inconvenience for the most part; you can run back to your corpse and if you make it in time recover all of your items. The frequency of it to me galled me, though. The rows of identical tiles supplied me with few landmarks and I'd find myself too far from home, even when I wasn't far at all. I was stuck in a conundrum where I couldn't venture too far afield but couldn't do much besides dig aimlessly where I was. What should have been my finest hour, however, turned into my darkest moment. I found the mother of all caves: a vast network full of iron and coal and 3 new resources I had never seen- gold, lapis lazuli and redstone. I mined greedily, but just as I was about to leave, my inventory brimming, a skeleton took advantage of my lapse in attention to my hunger bar and killed me. I raced back to my corpse, only to discover that the zone with my outpost was raining (the undead monsters don't burst into flame in the rain even during the day) and teeming with monsters. Without a sword, there was no way I could make my way back through the cave to recover my items.

Fuck this. I switch the game mode to Peaceful, in which no monsters spawn, and promptly die to lava. I start a new world and wander around a bit only to realize...this is boring. In the previous world, I had made two outposts, each with a crafting table, a furnace, and chests. I worked on my first shelter for several days, complete with a moat and a roof. It was an ugly piece of shit. I had to have a supply of food, so I made a pen and bred ~50 chickens even though I only needed 2-3 per day. To solve my navigation problems, I erected pillars that I could see from a long distance. In the new world, since no monsters came out, I had no reason to build a shelter and stick around one area. I simply carried my crafting table around with me, digging aimlessly. I was essentially a wandering, mining hobo. The needs placed upon me by the environment guided my actions and made them purposeful. Without them, at best I was an Egyptian pharaoh building pyramids to stave off ennui.

Putting on my Mr. Rogers vest, I thought, there's a life lesson here. Doesn't suffering fulfill the same role in life as in Minecraft? Need is the catalyst for most of our great works, or, more tritely, necessity is the mother of invention. Necessity is the patron of man's technological prowess, that much is obvious, but what other effects does it have? We would likely not group together as much and form looser social and political bonds. Family ties would disappear if children could fend for themselves as soon as they spawned. Josef Pieper wrote that how a culture used it's leisure time defined it, but it's difficult to appreciate leisure when you have no real work. Art and philosophy would certainly be extinct.

One of my favorite quotations (da Vinci, I think) is that art dies from freedom. Any great work is the result of working within constraints, be it meter for Ovid or physics to Imhotep. Such is it in life where we only weave the grandest tapestries through the greatest trials.

**
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18866 Posts
June 19 2013 20:15 GMT
#2
Saw Theodicy, came for Leibniz, left semi-satisfied. I am not convinced that this blog is the best of all possible blogs. 4/5
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
ASoo
Profile Joined November 2010
2866 Posts
June 19 2013 20:18 GMT
#3
On June 20 2013 05:15 farvacola wrote:
Saw Theodicy, came for Leibniz, left semi-satisfied. I am not convinced that this blog is the best of all possible blogs. 4/5

I am, however, convinced that this reply is the best of all possible replies.
corumjhaelen
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
France6884 Posts
June 19 2013 20:40 GMT
#4
On June 20 2013 05:15 farvacola wrote:
Saw Theodicy, came for Leibniz, left semi-satisfied. I am not convinced that this blog is the best of all possible blogs. 4/5

Ahahahah.
I hope you've read Candide farva !
‎numquam se plus agere quam nihil cum ageret, numquam minus solum esse quam cum solus esset
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
June 19 2013 21:17 GMT
#5
On June 20 2013 05:40 corumjhaelen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 20 2013 05:15 farvacola wrote:
Saw Theodicy, came for Leibniz, left semi-satisfied. I am not convinced that this blog is the best of all possible blogs. 4/5

Ahahahah.
I hope you've read Candide farva !


Why would he sully his mind with that filth?
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
corumjhaelen
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
France6884 Posts
June 19 2013 21:22 GMT
#6
On June 20 2013 06:17 Jerubaal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 20 2013 05:40 corumjhaelen wrote:
On June 20 2013 05:15 farvacola wrote:
Saw Theodicy, came for Leibniz, left semi-satisfied. I am not convinced that this blog is the best of all possible blogs. 4/5

Ahahahah.
I hope you've read Candide farva !


Why would he sully his mind with that filth?

Because it's a bit dumb, but very funny :p
‎numquam se plus agere quam nihil cum ageret, numquam minus solum esse quam cum solus esset
Salivanth
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia1071 Posts
June 20 2013 00:55 GMT
#7
"Suffering" is a poor word; "adversity" is a better one. We need adversity in our lives to give us a goal. That said, looking at our world, I'd say that even though adversity is necessary in life, the ratio is way off. An intelligent designer should give us pain, sure, but only certain kinds of pain. People should be able to have their arms broken, but not suffer from horrifically painful cancers. And there are some sufferings / annoyances that have no real purpose whatsoever. For instance, elephants. Once they get too old, they outlive their teeth and starve to death. It'd be easier to just install a kill-switch in them, so that they drop dead when that would happen. But evolutionarily, there's no reason to waste resources on that.

Minecraft is a game, clearly designed to provide you with a challenge, without being too easy or too hard. But life doesn't seem that way.
<@Wikt> so you are one of those nega-fans <@Wikt> that hates the company that makes a game and everything they stand for <@Wikt> but still plays the game <@Wikt> (like roughly 30% of blizzard's player base, maybe much more...)
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
June 20 2013 02:40 GMT
#8
If I were to add to the list of things that seem to crop up repeatedly, thee's a sense that something has...not quite gone right with the world.

You've put yourself in a strange position, though. You can't account for the injustice, so you relegate it to a system in which justice has no meaning, which negates your feeling of injustice in the first place.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
docvoc
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States5491 Posts
June 20 2013 02:56 GMT
#9
On June 20 2013 06:22 corumjhaelen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 20 2013 06:17 Jerubaal wrote:
On June 20 2013 05:40 corumjhaelen wrote:
On June 20 2013 05:15 farvacola wrote:
Saw Theodicy, came for Leibniz, left semi-satisfied. I am not convinced that this blog is the best of all possible blogs. 4/5

Ahahahah.
I hope you've read Candide farva !


Why would he sully his mind with that filth?

Because it's a bit dumb, but very funny :p

It only counts if he read it in french XD.
User was warned for too many mimes.
Umpteen
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom1570 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-20 11:55:49
June 20 2013 11:50 GMT
#10
On June 20 2013 09:55 Salivanth wrote:
"Suffering" is a poor word; "adversity" is a better one. We need adversity in our lives to give us a goal.


I don't buy that, for two reasons:

First, it's like saying "We need air because we have to breathe." or "We have to kill because we must eat." These are not axiomatic truths applicable to all possible intelligent beings, they are specific to our physiology.

Suffering, or the threat of suffering, does motivate and excite us, but it is not the case that all possible intelligent beings would need to be motivated or excited by the threat of suffering. Thus that is no excuse for the existence of suffering.

Second: Do you need the threat of death to motivate you to learn to play the piano?

The existence of a food chain is inescapable if we evolved unsupervised, and inexcusable otherwise.
Meborg
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Netherlands50 Posts
June 20 2013 13:17 GMT
#11
On June 20 2013 20:50 Umpteen wrote:

Second: Do you need the threat of death to motivate you to learn to play the piano?



Well I think I need the threat of death to motivate me to finish this essay on time!
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
June 20 2013 19:09 GMT
#12
To respond to Umpteen and further respond to Salivanth: You suggest that there is necessary and unnecessary suffering, which seems like an artificial distinction. Most people would describe the unnecessary suffering as the suffering that is out of your control, but that is a moving standard. Ancient starvation is distant malaria is current cancer. Only complete domination of nature and man would end suffering. You also suggest that mere inconvenience could replace suffering. That might work from a utilitarian standpoint (Although it's a bit tautological. If you don't need something you don't need to create a solution. Starvation might occupy a lower priority if it only produced stomach pain instead of death.), but it misses the point that it's the extremes that inspire. This is especially true in the realms of politics, philosophy and art. It's not just about what we make, but about what we are. You cannot be reforged in lukewarmness.

Finally, we've talked an awful lot almost as if suffering was a stimulus purposefully given to us. There's no point to suffering. It's the conditions that must be dealt with. You're right; if we were perfect there would be no suffering.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
Umpteen
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom1570 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-21 10:28:00
June 21 2013 10:27 GMT
#13
but it misses the point that it's the extremes that inspire. This is especially true in the realms of politics, philosophy and art.


You cannot be reforged in lukewarmness.


You're doing it again: making observations that are true of our particular physiology and nature and assuming they are axiomatic, necessarily true for all possible intelligent beings. They are not. Your logic is circular: we need extremes to inspire us because our nature is such that extremes inspire us. We need water to drink because we need to drink water.
The existence of a food chain is inescapable if we evolved unsupervised, and inexcusable otherwise.
bookwyrm
Profile Joined March 2014
United States722 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-26 02:39:20
April 25 2014 22:47 GMT
#14
Haha this is a great blog, I have lost most of the last week to minecraft which I just started playing... So addictive. You're right though, I don't see the point in playing anything but survival mode!

edit: Auuuugh I just lost a bunch of my stuff, why god, why??
si hortum in bibliotheca habes, deerit nihil
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 34m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
summit1g9009
Nina 161
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 61137
Shuttle 3016
Mind 47
Shine 40
Noble 34
Bale 29
yabsab 24
ajuk12(nOOB) 22
Dota 2
LuMiX1
League of Legends
JimRising 695
Other Games
singsing1018
WinterStarcraft552
Sick159
ProTech112
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick519
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH355
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Light_VIP 17
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2157
League of Legends
• Rush1685
• Stunt531
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
2h 34m
hero vs ggaemo
Larva vs Mong
The Patches Monday
8h 49m
Afreeca Starleague
1d 2h
Soulkey vs PianO
JyJ vs sSak
GSL
1d 3h
PiGosaur Cup
1d 16h
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Mini vs Calm
Queen vs EffOrt
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
[ Show More ]
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
GSL
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-23
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
META DYMY #4

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 1
RSL Revival: Season 6
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

CSL Season 22: Qualifier 2
BSL 2026 LAN: Kraków
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Calamity Invitational
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.