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When I first found out about starcraft II, I was learning chess. It was fun, it has some similarities to starcraft. While I was messing around with chess, I got into watching some professional games. If I wasn't trying to improve, I'd say chess games are boring as hell. To watch a chess game if you are not trying to understand why and what is happening is one of the most boring tasks in the world.
Now, again, I think a similar thing happens in starcraft. I personally don't like watching starcraft games, I watch (or used to) to improve. I don't know about you guys, but I'm pretty sure you feel the same (jugding by the number of viewers on twitch).
If a game is boring to watch, it means less money involved, which means less players playing it professionally. I never got into the chess scene, but I highly doubt there are many players getting paid to play.
If watching boringcraft wasn't enough, we have another problem: blizzard wants us to pay to play their game. I can play soccer/baseball or basketball without paying anything. A ESports game should be of public ownership, I don't think a game will evolve if it is owned and manipulated however a company wants.
Now if we take a look at dota and league of legends, these games, even though I don't think they are, are much more entertainable to watch. People can cheer for a team, they don't know what the heck is going on, yet they keep cheering. The game isn't as square as chess and SC2, there are as many strategies in dota as there is in football. It's a game with many variables, you can't write what you are going to do in dota/soccer on your notebook, like sc2 and chess build orders. Thus, making it fun to watch.
TL;DR: I think StarCraft II will never be as big as DotA, because it is only fun to watch if you are learning (like chess). For the casual viewer it is boring. Plus, we have to pay blizzard if we want to play SC2. I don't have to pay fifa if I want to play soccer casually.
  
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United States9940 Posts
starcraft 2 is already bigger than dota imo... BW was bigger than any other video game at the time, at least in korea. it was the biggest WCG event as well.
i think you are trying to make your comparison to something like league of legends, then yes. MOBA games? yes. but not DotA specifically.
also the player thinks SC is boring because it is just a difficult game to master. LoL skill cap is miles below that of SC. viewers are thus much more drawn to LoL because they can just copy what that player does and get better. its almost impossible to instantly get better at SC just by copying someone. you need their mechanics as much as their game sense and style of play.
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What are the numbers on SC2 players (not viewers) these days?
Just curious because Dota2 has 3.5Million "unique" players every month 
I put unique in quotations because I think that that probably includes people with multiple accounts.
E: I believe max concurrent players is around 1/10 of that, a bit less. Over 300,000 though.
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Hardcore game will never be as big as casual game and sc2 has tried to casualize it's hardcore 1v1 mode but removed the actual casual things casual players play
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I don't think it has something to do with the difficulty to master, I'm as good in sc2 as I am in dota, but I don't think watching starcraft is fun unless I'm trying to improve and playing it competitively. I could sit down and watch a dota match, as for starcraft, now that I stopped trying to get to GM... its not as fun.
Do koreans use pirated broodwar copies? I know for sure that dota is big in china, brazil and russia because of the piracy rates, which are very high.
Another point proving that paid esports game = bad for the game, good for the company.
I think blizzard is being greedy but I gotta give them some credit, blizzard world editor created so many new genres. Tower defense and hero arena are the ones that I'm pretty sure got popularized (and probably invented) by the world editor.
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On June 11 2013 04:07 rauk wrote:
Hardcore game will never be as big as casual game and sc2 has tried to casualize it's hardcore 1v1 mode but removed the actual casual things casual players play
I agree with that. Even though I think dota is more competitive than LoL for X reasons, I still think DotA is more casual than SC2, because a newbie can have fun on his first DotA 2 game. As for starcraft, it doesn't get fun until you know what you're doing.
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dota 1 + dota 2 easily surpasses sc2 in numbers.
Personally, I got bored of sc2 after a few months, but continued to watch for like a year.
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I disagree that watching sc2 cant be fun.
- Sure u need to be somewhat skilled (lets say platinum ) to understand it, and recognize skill if u see it
- I think you need to be somewhat into the scene to know some progamers and be able to cheer for them
OR just watch it for the protoss tears
Thats about it i dont think you need more to enjoy some starcraft
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I do watch fewer and fewer games these days. Heck, the reason I started watching Dota2 and LoL was to learn about them. These games might sound simple, but they really aren't. There's a lot more to them than meets the eye and this kind of stuff wasn't meant to be mainstream to begin with.
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On June 11 2013 04:04 Sn0_Man wrote:What are the numbers on SC2 players (not viewers) these days? Just curious because Dota2 has 3.5Million "unique" players every month I put unique in quotations because I think that that probably includes people with multiple accounts. E: I believe max concurrent players is around 1/10 of that, a bit less. Over 300,000 though.
You're saying the average dota 2 player has 10 accounts? What what whaaaaaaat?
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On June 11 2013 04:47 jrkirby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2013 04:04 Sn0_Man wrote:What are the numbers on SC2 players (not viewers) these days? Just curious because Dota2 has 3.5Million "unique" players every month I put unique in quotations because I think that that probably includes people with multiple accounts. E: I believe max concurrent players is around 1/10 of that, a bit less. Over 300,000 though. You're saying the average dota 2 player has 10 accounts? What what whaaaaaaat?
No, I'm saying over the course of the last month 3.5 Million players have played dota 2 (although I think this particular figure is mildly inflated by secondary accounts etc).
The MOST players on Dota 2 at a specific instant in the last month was somewhere between 300,00 and 350,000.
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Ya but if you want to play soccer and basketball you still have to pay for shoes a ball and you need a court to play on with a basketball hoop. Granted there are costs to playing sc2 and Bw you can't say playing soccer and basketball is completely free
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Also i think hots is a huge step into the right direction i see no reason to quit starcraft right now in my opinion its more fun to watch and play then ever before.
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I watch StarCraft 2 the same way as what I would watch a rugby match. I don't watch rugby because I want to get better, heck, I don't even play rugby. It is just fun to watch. Same with StarCraft, I watch it because it is fun to watch, not to get better. I watch tutorial video's to get better.
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If a game is boring to watch, it means less money involved, which means less players playing it professionally. I never got into the chess scene, but I highly doubt there are many players getting paid to play.
There are about 2 million competitive chess players in the world. The average earnings of a professional chess player is $35,000, according to SimplyHired.com
See, I find dota and soccer boring to watch. It is a difference in taste.
SC2 probably is not for you, and how it sounds, chess might not be your cup of tea either. You are right that the masses prefer a form of entertainment where they can put their brains on hold, because this is the state they are used too.
blizzard wants us to pay to play their game. I can play soccer/baseball or basketball without paying anything.
Because baseballs grow on trees, well baseball bats actually do, but they still charge me everytime in that friggin store. Must be an awesome place where you live.
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On June 11 2013 04:47 jrkirby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2013 04:04 Sn0_Man wrote:What are the numbers on SC2 players (not viewers) these days? Just curious because Dota2 has 3.5Million "unique" players every month I put unique in quotations because I think that that probably includes people with multiple accounts. E: I believe max concurrent players is around 1/10 of that, a bit less. Over 300,000 though. You're saying the average dota 2 player has 10 accounts? What what whaaaaaaat?
Yes actually, I have like 12 or so. I have about 60 invites and every now and then I just decide to start a new account and work it in to the higher brackets. Most of the less casual dota players i know have multiple accounts, usually to avoid low prio or chat bans.
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On June 11 2013 03:48 DW-Unrec wrote:
TL;DR: I think StarCraft II will never be as big as DotA, because it is only fun to watch if you are learning (like chess). For the casual viewer it is boring. Plus, we have to pay blizzard if we want to play SC2. I don't have to pay fifa if I want to play soccer casually.
You try walking in to a shop and taking a copy of FIFA 13 out of it without paying...... I promise you that you will suddenly find its not free.
If you play in any organised soccer league in the world, the team you play for has to PAY to play in the league, most of them charge their players a small amount every week to cover the costs of running the team, hiring a training ground etc. I consider playing soccer for a team, playing casually, and you have to pay for it. Now if you just want to go to a field and kick a ball about, thats free, except for the football boots and the football itself. If you want to just have a mess about in SC2 with your friends, thats cool but you have to think about the game client as the ball..... you can't play football without a football, someone had to pay for that. You can't play starcraft without owning starcraft, you can however watch it for free..... there isn't much football you can watch for free. Most of it is on subscription only channels, if you want to watch the premier league, you HAVE to pay or get it illegally, you dont have to do so for starcraft, especially since they just release SPAWNING
Yeah, basically you have no idea what you are talking about. Spawning allows you to get access to the full game FOR FREE when in a party with your friends who have purchased the game. So basically, to play football with your friends, someone had to pay for the football, to play starcraft with your friends, someone had to purchase starcraft... hang on..... I think thats the same thing!
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Have you tried watching Dota or League?
Boring as hell...the point is that ANY game is going to be boring unless you are significantly invested in it. I used to go to football games and yawn myself to tears. Nothing in it for me. But as soon as I started to learn the rules the game became significantly more interesting to me.
And almost always the things that excite me the most are the nuances. Learn to love the mechanics of the game and appreciate clean play and there are endless things to look for.
If you really want to know why the matches seem boring, it's because of a lack of storylines.
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On June 11 2013 04:14 Incze wrote:
dota 1 + dota 2 easily surpasses sc2 in numbers.
Personally, I got bored of sc2 after a few months, but continued to watch for like a year.
He's talking about viewership, and I don't see any dota 1 streams. Streamwise, I'm pretty sure sc2 surpasses dota 2.
As for the OP, I've only watched SC2 for entertainment, never for study.
I also find LoL boring to watch (and I've played a decent number of games in LoL, maybe a little over 100). People are entertained by different things, and for many, SC2 is obviously entertaining.
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On June 11 2013 04:11 DW-Unrec wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2013 04:07 rauk wrote:
Hardcore game will never be as big as casual game and sc2 has tried to casualize it's hardcore 1v1 mode but removed the actual casual things casual players play I agree with that. Even though I think dota is more competitive than LoL for X reasons, I still think DotA is more casual than SC2, because a newbie can have fun on his first DotA 2 game. As for starcraft, it doesn't get fun until you know what you're doing.
This is exactly right as far as using casual in this term. OP did not even realize his own bias when describing the issue and tried to make some other explanation fit his inherent enjoyment of one thing over another. I enjoy watching high level sc2 and chess, and Im not trying to improve at either. (to be fair im competent at both, though Im around 2200~ in chess id say im barely 1500~ in sc2 elo lol, i still enjoy watching both equally)
You have to understand what's going on to enjoy something. It's almost trivial to understand what's going on in a dota game, sure there's alot of depth that isnt directly observable but it's still pretty easy to enjoy with very little knowledge. But imo you have to be at a higher relative level of understanding to enjoy something like sc2 (but that's just my opinion and other people could see it different)
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