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Hi guys. Essentially, I guess I'm writing this blog because it seems that for the past two or three years, I really just lost my motivation to learn Chinese.
At this point, I must emphasize that this is not a girl blog, do not get confused. I'll try to make this brief.
I originally started learning for a girl. I wanted to meet her parents. I did meet her parents. They hated me for reasons that I had nothing to do with (family background and Confucian superstition). It's a long and complicated story. Let me try to keep it short.
Boy meets girl in China. Girl and boy try a date. Girl and boy separate. Boy goes back to America, with the intention of going back to China by any means possible with dignity. Studies Chinese religiously every day for hours. Becomes reasonably literate. Boy plans to go back to China to see said girl, possibly meet her family. Boy gets angry and jealous and rage-quits the idea because the girl is seeing another man.
After the above paragraph, I had essentially had a bad study-abroad experience in China, and I never wanted to go back. So, even after ditching the idea of ever seeing this girl again (and again, ever going to the People's Republic of China), I still studied Chinese religiously for an hour a day, possibly due to the fact that my living situation at the time had limited internet, and thus a majority of my loving pastimes associated with the internet disappeared. So, I studied Chinese because I had almost nothing else to do. Hell, I would even study Chinese while the professors of the two-year college attended gave lectures and I still made A's in class. Now I'm at the state's best and I study Chinese as my major.
This, below, was the blind perception many people had of me. I say "blind" because a majority of Americans only speak one language.
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://www.geni.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/einstein.jpg) Some people would ask me things like, "Are you a super genius?", "Where are you from?", "Where did you grow up?" "Where did you learn to speak that language?" etc. While simultaneously overlooking every Chinese person in America that has had to learn English as a second language. This is where I began to start feeling alienated. This is when and where I started to lose my motivation to learn.Yes, a majority of my friends are Chinese-speaking. I know I'm not Chinese. Why do I hang out with them? I grew up as an introvert and made friends with the wrong crowd in my own culture. After my experiences with having Chinese friends abroad and domestic, I simply felt safer making friends with them than other Americans. Hell, even the way Chinese people party is safer.
Perception of many Chinese native speakers of me...
+ Show Spoiler +It varies, but when I ask someone a question, they totally ignore the question and just say something that translates to "Wow, your Chinese is really good!" in English. Imagine for a minute trying to communicate with someone important information.
"So, where are you from in China?"
"Wow! Your Chinese is really good!"
"..."
or
"What would you like to drink?"
"Wow, you speak Chinese!?"
"..."
I usually spare people B.S. and don't tell them, "Wow, your English is really good!", I feel that is condescending in actuality. Many people try to dub down their Chinese with me when if they just spoke ordinary Chinese with me, I could understand just fine.
My "credentials" in Chinese Language
+ Show Spoiler +HSK Level III - 600 words and grammar patterns mastered, earned January 5 2011 (now invalid results).
HSK Level IV - 1200 words and Grammar patterns mastered, earned January 5 2012.
HSK Level V - 2,500 words and grammar patterns mastered, test taken May 12, 2013. Results pending (personallty I think I failed it).
My attitude towards studying now.
+ Show Spoiler + I feel completely unmotivated to study. I'm not motivated to stop learning, it's just that it doesn't hold as much a priority in my life as it did before. My perception is that every time I study Chinese I'm studying something that is spewing communist propaganda, or I'm just studying something that is painfully boring and leaves me uninterested (like high-yielding rice patties and the guy who invented them). I don't watch a lot of TV either, but I would say that some variety shows (such as 非誠勿擾) do catch my eye once in a while..
I'm also at a fork in the road. Do I start learning more Chinese that is specific towards mainland China, or do I start learning terms and grammar patterns specific to Taiwan? There are some ideas, some projects I have looming in the future, some plans possibly that involve me doing work in China or Taiwan, but nothing is solid. Long story short - I dont want to be an English teacher in Taiwan or China because that's something a loser in America could do. I would rather have a job that symbolizes respect and status in a community. Not like doing business, not like government work, but at the same time, something that makes me feel like I've worked in to and belong to a community.
For those of you who were interested about that girl.
+ Show Spoiler +No pictures. I'll say she was worth my time and what happened is what happened and I wouldn't have had it any other way. A friend of mine told me what to expect and initially, I did not believe him. Seeing was believing, and it turned out in the end he was right. Her parents hated me because my father, my brother, and my sister have all been married and divorced at least once.
Non Chinese people that speak Chinese better than some Chinese people.
+ Show Spoiler +Mark Roswell (Also known as DaShan) Benjamin Scwartz
TL;DR - I started learning Chinese for a girl that I wanted to be with for the rest of my life. I stopped learning because I began to feel like an alien. How do I cure this problem?
  
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Having a more intrinsic reward for learning a language is probably not something you can just develop especially if your initial motivations seem kind of a shallow to begin learning it. Tough it out and keep learning or do something else.
Sorry if I'm interpreting it wrong because I don't necessarily see where you're getting at. But if for every girl you meet and you have to do something as time intensive and difficult as learning a new language, you may find yourself in a lot of dead ends. This is probably as nice as I can put it.
My brother in-law is a "foreigner" as my folks like to put it and disliked him for reasons that are not at all logical but over the years he showed persistence, character, independence, and respect despite the huge cultural differences. There are cross-cultural values that are consistent between many cultures, beliefs, lifestyles, and it may be worthwhile in identifying with them as to reflect on your motivations to learn Chinese.
Good luck!
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United States10328 Posts
Well, on learning mainland stuff or Taiwanese stuff---are you more interested in working in the mainland or Taiwan? Tbh I doubt you have to study much more if you're already conversationally fluent and can read/write (though I do find it annoying when I can't read technical terms, heh... not to say I'm fluent  ) I think with language you shouldn't "force" yourself to study unless you're really interested.
Also: omg Da Shan!!! I saw him in some xiang sheng from a long time ago
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The reactions from people when you speak a second language is something that really resonates with me. I've had some pretty trying times here in japan and have put a lot of time into thinking about whether living here, learning the language, etc. is really worthwhile, but in the end I'm in kind of the same boat as you. Japanese has been a huge part of my life and will remain that way in my career and person life. Even though I've had ups and downs with it I love the language and that's my motivation to keep studying. It sounds like chinese is going to be a big part of your career as well so that should gi e you some motivation to keep at it. Something that's really important is making studying at least somewhat enjoyable though, like you touched on. It's not always going to be flowers and sunshine (I know the pain of learning written chinese too) but there's a lot of tools out there to help you learn. You just need to find the methods that interest you.
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It sucks that you learnt Chinese for a girl but you no longer can have her but........you know there are more than 1 girl in China right? 
As for the culture chasm, it will always exist in a largely mono-ethnic country such as China. Don't take it personally though, people from different regions of China also discriminate against each other. Just ask any 40+ Shanghai or Beijingers what they think of people from the country side.
Try and put yourself in their shoes. China was largely a closed off country for a long time (thanks chairman mao). It was also dirt poor (think north korea). There is a certain level of inferiority complex that flows through the nation. Add that to 50+ years of communist propaganda (thanks again chairman mao) and you have a nation infected with psychological clusterfuck.
Remeber you are the enlightened one. You are young. You are from the US which means you're used to multiculturalism. You are capable of change and adapting. They are not.
As for what to learn and the issue of Chinese propaganda infected standard learning material, I offer the following solutions.
1. Learn what interests you. If that means following China's 5000 year old history then thats great and you'll learn a lot of what shapes chinese culture, not to mention impressing the older generations. If that means watching 非誠勿擾, its less great beause you'll lost braincells but at least you'll be able to talk to the younger crowd.
2. Think of communist propaganda like a bigger version of America's conservative/fox news propaganda machine. How do you as a sane person function with so much of that sewage broadcasted daily? Just treat communist propaganda the same way and you'll be fine.
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It's normal, once you can speak Chinese for everyday life conversation you have less incentive to learn because you can handle most situations.
I started to learn Chinese because I thought it was cool, then I went to China and realized that I couldn't do anything without having a decent conversational level, and once I got to that point and passed HSK I completely stopped learning.
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You could take the energy you put into studying Chinese and put it into pursuing opportunities making use of your already pretty damn good language skills. It might simply be that you are good enough that to get to the "next level" is not worth it.
What is there that you would like to be able to do with the language that you can't do already?
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stop associating the chinese language with that girl. you had a bad experience with a girl, and the chinese language is so ingrained in that experience that its detracting from your ability to get better at it.
one solution: find a different purpose for learning chinese. maybe learn it just for the sake of learning it and for self improvement? learn it so you can use it in your career somehow? learn it because you like dramas or some other cultural aspect?
another solution: focus your energy on something else. if you really don't feel like doing something, dont fucking do it unless you really have to. move on. do something else. you'll find another joy in your life that you missed because you are still "stuck" with chinese. do something else, and maybe in the future, when your body and mind are more ready for learning chinese, THEN you can go back. if you don't feel like doing a hobby/interest, then you probably shouldnt do it. why force yourself?
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On May 15 2013 11:04 Mr. Black wrote:
You could take the energy you put into studying Chinese and put it into pursuing opportunities making use of your already pretty damn good language skills. It might simply be that you are good enough that to get to the "next level" is not worth it.
What is there that you would like to be able to do with the language that you can't do already?
I would really like to help China's status with esports develop. Every time the Olympic games take place, China and America are neck and neck with the amount of gold medals earned. Why can't the esports stage in China be equally competitive? Yao Ming played basketball for an American team. iG.Jim was GM rank one in the last week. Why can't we see equal mobility? I've seen a Chinese amateur Terran by the name of NuclearBlitz, also known as Ling Er, take a best of 3 vs. Creatorprime to the third game, meaning that he had won a single game against the world's second best player at last year's BWC. Is that not not worthy of global discussion?
The only problem with this is the amount of investment that can be lost, and presently I see it as holding a lot of room for error.
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there is not that much difference between taiwan and mainland china in terms of sentence structure etc.
From what I read on your chinese forum post etc, I don't think your chinese is at that level yet.
A mainlander can pick up Taiwan style mandarin just as easy as a Taiwanese picking up the mainland chinese style.
honestly the difference is maybe the level of London vs Manchester English, a few difference in slang, accent and words, overall however is similar.
I don't quite understand why that caused you to feel alienated, is it because you think why you are learning chinese when the chinese are learning english?
Have you ever considered that if you don't even speak chinese, then you basically speak one less language than them? I am from Hong Kong and we have to learn mandarin, cantonese and english. Quite a lot of Singaporean speaks malay and hokken really well on top of cantonese, english and mandarin.
It's not that special to speak more than one language but it is useful if you can. You can go china and taiwan and communicate. Then the problem is if you want to be completely fluent at it or just satisfy at your level.
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IN THE NAVY, WE CAN SAIL THE SEVEN SEAS.....
Alright I'll stop, ill stop. I think you should just pursue something that you like. I've read some of your blogs about casting the chinese scene. I think for things were you won't be making a lot of money, ur passion is the only thing that will fuel you and if that runs out then maybe you should take a break and find something that will energize you.
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Have fun with it. Read some ancient Chinese mythology. You could really get into some interesting stuff. Maybe there's a classic Chinese story that you could translate to English so everyone could read it?
Maybe you learn another language (French? Italian? Russian? Portuguese?) and end up as a translator for Chinese businessmen doing business in France / Italy / etc.
Every language you learn, you add multiple translation opportunities. There's a lot you can do with language!
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On May 15 2013 14:36 ETisME wrote:
I don't quite understand why that caused you to feel alienated, is it because you think why you are learning chinese when the chinese are learning english?
Have you ever considered that if you don't even speak chinese, then you basically speak one less language than them? I am from Hong Kong and we have to learn mandarin, cantonese and english. Quite a lot of Singaporean speaks malay and hokken really well on top of cantonese, english and mandarin.
This is my mainpoint. Nobody here realizes that I am in the same boat as many Hong Kongers (except my Cantonese is non-existent). They neglect that there are people who struggle to learn English on a daily basis and speak it as a second language. They highlight me almost like I am the second coming of Christ when in reality my present situation is no different from the average bilingual person in Hong Kong.
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I know where you are, and I think a lot of foreigners plateau at that conversational level. All I can advise you to do is take a class, so you are surrounded by like minded learners who want to take that next big step up. If you give up now, you're dropping the language just before you can speak it well enough to use professionally.
I'm studying for HSK 6 now, so I guess I'm at about the same level as you. HSK 6 material is really great, and the whole experience is better than it has ever been.
Up to HSK 5 you're just learning the basics, and passing HSK 5 basically means "yes I can hold a conversation, make friends and exist on a superficial level in Chinese society". HSK 6 is completely different, things start to get a lot more serious and in depth. I feel like I'm back at university, having proper debates and discussions with people about life.
Discussing globalisation, education, philosophy and the modern world in Chinese is just fascinating. Come back out to China, and take a class. I'm currently studying with Koreans, and after we finish studying we go to internet cafes to play starcraft and league of legends. It's my old TL dream come true.
Also back home you might feel like you're doing well because as you say, so many others don't speak another language. That's just an illusion, which you can break by surrounding yourself with other language learners. When you see how hard the Koreans study it's damn motivating.
"My perception is that every time I study Chinese I'm studying something that is spewing communist propaganda, or I'm just studying something that is painfully boring and leaves me uninterested (like high-yielding rice patties and the guy who invented them)."
I don't know what books you're using, but the books my (Chinese) school is using are pretty much relentlessly discussing the dramatic impact of the free market and the huge societal changes and environmental challenges that are coming out of it. An example from today‘s lesson:
90年代初期，由于经济的快速度发展，大学生的价值取向日趋分化， 视野逐渐转向现实。
他们的竞争意识，风险只增强，敢于在市场经济中竞争。同时，绿大多数大学生追求份实话， 把求职和成才结合在一起，既考虑个人价值，又考虑社会价值， 通过实现个人价值，来达到社会价值的实现。不少人选学科学文化和识， 再到市容经济大海中寻球发展。
Seems like a pretty reasonable commentary, not really propaganda.
TLDR: Don't give up now, you're finally at the stage where you study the best stuff.
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On May 16 2013 00:40 Tal wrote:
I know where you are, and I think a lot of foreigners plateau at that conversational level. All I can advise you to do is take a class, so you are surrounded by like minded learners who want to take that next big step up. If you give up now, you're dropping the language just before you can speak it well enough to use professionally.
I'm studying for HSK 6 now, so I guess I'm at about the same level as you. HSK 6 material is really great, and the whole experience is better than it has ever been.
Up to HSK 5 you're just learning the basics, and passing HSK 5 basically means "yes I can hold a conversation, make friends and exist on a superficial level in Chinese society". HSK 6 is completely different, things start to get a lot more serious and in depth. I feel like I'm back at university, having proper debates and discussions with people about life.
Discussing globalisation, education, philosophy and the modern world in Chinese is just fascinating. Come back out to China, and take a class. I'm currently studying with Koreans, and after we finish studying we go to internet cafes to play starcraft and league of legends. It's my old TL dream come true.
Also back home you might feel like you're doing well because as you say, so many others don't speak another language. That's just an illusion, which you can break by surrounding yourself with other language learners. When you see how hard the Koreans study it's damn motivating.
"My perception is that every time I study Chinese I'm studying something that is spewing communist propaganda, or I'm just studying something that is painfully boring and leaves me uninterested (like high-yielding rice patties and the guy who invented them)."
I don't know what books you're using, but the books my (Chinese) school is using are pretty much relentlessly discussing the dramatic impact of the free market and the huge societal changes and environmental challenges that are coming out of it. An example from today‘s lesson:
90年代初期，由于经济的快速度发展，大学生的价值取向日趋分化， 视野逐渐转向现实。
他们的竞争意识，风险只增强，敢于在市场经济中竞争。同时，绿大多数大学生追求份实话， 把求职和成才结合在一起，既考虑个人价值，又考虑社会价值， 通过实现个人价值，来达到社会价值的实现。不少人选学科学文化和识， 再到市容经济大海中寻球发展。
Seems like a pretty reasonable commentary, not really propaganda.
TLDR: Don't give up now, you're finally at the stage where you study the best stuff.
You, sir, are fucking awesome. You've made my day.
Can you by chance tell me what books you used to get where you are today? I've been using "New Practical Chinese Reader" and everything in it is painfully boring.
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EPT
