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I will try your ideas on ladder!

Blogs > GenesisX
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GenesisX
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada4267 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-21 02:30:06
April 19 2013 23:03 GMT
#1
Hey everyone,

Inspired by randomKo_Orean's threads, I have decided to continue this project of unorthadox strategies on the HotS ladder. For anyone that doesn't know how this works, you suggest any strange strategies or theorycrafts, I will give a first impression, then I will test your strategies on the ladder. When I finish, I will give a small report and a replay!

My rank if anyone cares/ for credibility? I play Zerg:
+ Show Spoiler +
http://sc2ranks.com/us/372731/SCGenX
[image loading]


With HotS being only a month or so old, there are many new plays that I feel haven't been explored yet. I thought this would be a nice opportunity for me to finally contribute to the community, so please give me your suggestions!

Also I didn't put this under SC2 Strategy because it gets a lot of traffic and I don't know how many requests I will get.

Disclaimer: My main race is zerg, so any terran/protoss strats may be executed at a lower level/ on unranked play

Thanks for reading!

Projects:

Project 1: ZvP [done]
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 20 2013 08:19 Chairman Ray wrote:
In a PvT, I would like to see a Hatch being proxied at 10 at your third, canceled, and then a pool being built on there. At standard expo timing, send a drone to your natural and fight with the scouting probe trying to block the expo in order to fake expo before pool. Once pool finishes, send 6 lings, then expo at your 3rd in order to save the pool. The toss probably hasn't walled off or built a cannon yet, so the 6 lings may do some good damage.


First Impression: I think you mean ZvP? I think the Protoss might get suspicious once scouting a low drone count and therefore just forgo a nexus first. It will definitely confuse the hell out of them though so I'll try it.

Results: http://drop.sc/325598 BLOODY HELL I MESSED UP THE FIRST HATCH CANCEL -.-. but LOL... if your protoss opponent doesn't count drones this works really well LOL. After killing his probes it was just a matter of sweeping up with roach/hydra. Poor choice of him to go stargate after being behind. If you're wondering why I got gas so early, I was worried that he would try some zealot timing seeing as how he built 3 gates. I wanted to have roaches out just in case.


Project 2: ZvP [done]
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 20 2013 08:19 CecilSunkure wrote:
ZvP : Roach ling allin with 3 base on Lair tech. Followup after attacking them and trading armies: 5 Overseers that have gathered energy for a lot of corruption. Prioritize: Robo (get rid of obs/immortal), then SG, then tech upgrades and finally the Gateways.


First Impression: LOL. I think this will work really well, but might need more than 5 overseers. Roach/ling isn't very heavy on gas, so this will be perfect.

Results: http://drop.sc/325948 I realized that this strategy could have (should have...) been executed in WoL since it doesn't have any new HotS advantages or units. This game wasn't a particularly good example. My opponent was already really far behind from his beginning opening. He didn't even have a robo for me to contaminate so I just tried to contaminate everything else. I probably would have won without contamination though, he was that far behind. Anyways, this strategy would have worked better on a different map also (daybreak comes to mind). However, I think it really shows how good this strategy can get. I had so many resources at the end because I couldn't even spend it all. Surprising how well it worked out!

I would love to try this again when I get the chance, but 90% of all the protoss I play right now go double stargate after forge FE.


Project 3: ZvP/T
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 20 2013 08:19 CecilSunkure wrote:
ZvT/P : Roach/Hydra mid game. Use some multi-management to lure opponent army away from the their Nat. Then, rush in with your Roach/Hydra and go into the main. Use a Nydus to retreat from the main after sniping a couple CCs/Nexus.


First Impression: I think roach/hydra is pretty standard in both matchups, so the only difference will be the nydus escapes which I definitely think are not used very often. Maybe incorporate drop play in to get into the base, then nydus out?


Project 4: ZvZ [done]
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 20 2013 08:24 Emzeeshady wrote:
In a ZvZ 10 pool and bring a drone along to build an evolution chamber in his mineral line. He will be all busy taking it down and then your lings plus the broodlings will kill him. Works for me in mid masters :p.


First Impression: haha... I've tried lots of crazy evo chamber cheeses before such as 10pool double evo block a spine behind their mineral line. I'll try this one out when I get the chance to.

Results: Yeah... against any good players they won't try to kill it and the evo chamber won't block anything. I won't post the replays because I got destroyed hard in these games. Unless you somehow manage to block 3-4 mineral patches I don't see this working


Project 5: ZvP [done]
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 20 2013 08:49 mizU wrote:
zvp burrow lings early in vision of protoss to force robo, then go ling muta


First Impression: shouldn't be too hard. grab gas a little faster than usual and show tech. Not many protoss actually open robo anymore so this would be great for forcing that

Results: I tried a lot of games with early burrow but the protoss's tech in 3hatch vs FFE in pretty much already determined by the time you show burrow without suffering economically. Getting burrow any faster puts you way too far behind, and you won't be able to make the critical amount of mutas to stop any tech switch to phoenix. Plus burrow doesn't really do anything for you other than take away 100/100 gas and MAYBE force toss to get a robo which they usually already have for colossi. I won't post replays because its pretty much me just going muta ling and playing normally after lol


Project 6: TvR
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 20 2013 09:23 FlaShFTW wrote:
Widow mine + Hellion/Battlehellion drop. vs any race.
Send double drop. one to their ramp (or choke between the main and natural) with widow mines and bury them.
Second the other drop to the main to scare probes into running into mines. :D


First Impression: this one sounds really fun to do especially if they don't see the mines on their ramp lol


Project 7: Zv?
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 20 2013 15:12 GTPGlitch wrote:
burrow roach with overlord drop allin pls :D

can hide in ground or air ^_^


First Impression: not sure which match up to play this against, but this sounds really hard mechanically. Need to burrow roaches / drop everywhere since roaches kinda suck mid game


133 221 333 123 111
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
11939 Posts
April 19 2013 23:08 GMT
#2
Does 5-6 rax marines work better or worse in HotS? No gas, just a lot of marines, then expand behind it if they defend well.
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-19 23:50:45
April 19 2013 23:19 GMT
#3
In a ZvP, I would like to see a Hatch being proxied at 10 at your third, canceled, and then a pool being built on there. At standard expo timing, send a drone to your natural and fight with the scouting probe trying to block the expo in order to fake expo before pool. Once pool finishes, send 6 lings, then expo at your 3rd in order to save the pool. The toss probably hasn't walled off or built a cannon yet, so the 6 lings may do some good damage.
CecilSunkure
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2829 Posts
April 19 2013 23:19 GMT
#4
ZvP : Roach ling allin with 3 base on Lair tech. Followup after attacking them and trading armies: 5 Overseers that have gathered energy for a lot of corruption. Prioritize: Robo (get rid of obs/immortal), then SG, then tech upgrades and finally the Gateways.

ZvT/P : Roach/Hydra mid game. Use some multi-management to lure opponent army away from the their Nat. Then, rush in with your Roach/Hydra and go into the main. Use a Nydus to retreat from the main after sniping a couple CCs/Nexus.
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
April 19 2013 23:24 GMT
#5
--- Nuked ---
TurboDreams
Profile Joined April 2009
United States427 Posts
April 19 2013 23:29 GMT
#6
On April 20 2013 08:19 Chairman Ray wrote:
In a PvT, I would like to see a Hatch being proxied at 10 at your third, canceled, and then a pool being built on there. At standard expo timing, send a drone to your natural and fight with the scouting probe trying to block the expo in order to fake expo before pool. Once pool finishes, send 6 lings, then expo at your 3rd in order to save the pool. The toss probably hasn't walled off or built a cannon yet, so the 6 lings may do some good damage.

How can you make Hatchery or Drone in a PvT?
Music is the medicine of the mind || Kill a Zergling and a hundred more will take its place.
GenesisX
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada4267 Posts
April 19 2013 23:43 GMT
#7
updated with the first batch of replys, thanks for all the interest. I'll work on them as soon as I can.

@Yurie: ZvT early game hasn't changed too much other than terrans are favouring reaper openings more. I won't try this one because it's been done in WoL many times. My guess is that it works worse since zergs are getting gas a lot faster and could potentially have banelings out in time to stop this push.
133 221 333 123 111
mizU
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States12125 Posts
April 19 2013 23:49 GMT
#8
zvp burrow lings early in vision of protoss to force robo, then go ling muta
if happy ever afters did exist <3 @watamizu_
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
April 19 2013 23:51 GMT
#9
On April 20 2013 08:29 Musiq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2013 08:19 Chairman Ray wrote:
In a PvT, I would like to see a Hatch being proxied at 10 at your third, canceled, and then a pool being built on there. At standard expo timing, send a drone to your natural and fight with the scouting probe trying to block the expo in order to fake expo before pool. Once pool finishes, send 6 lings, then expo at your 3rd in order to save the pool. The toss probably hasn't walled off or built a cannon yet, so the 6 lings may do some good damage.

How can you make Hatchery or Drone in a PvT?


ah, ty for catching the typo
CecilSunkure
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2829 Posts
April 19 2013 23:55 GMT
#10
On April 20 2013 08:49 mizU wrote:
zvp burrow lings early in vision of protoss to force robo, then go ling muta

LOL best idea in thread.

Except what about cannons?

Also Gen you need to get these replays up for some watchingness
mizU
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States12125 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-20 00:01:42
April 20 2013 00:01 GMT
#11
On April 20 2013 08:55 CecilSunkure wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2013 08:49 mizU wrote:
zvp burrow lings early in vision of protoss to force robo, then go ling muta

LOL best idea in thread.

Except what about cannons?

Also Gen you need to get these replays up for some watchingness


If you burrow them out of cannon attack range but in detection range, if they're half decent they'll get a robo before they push.
if happy ever afters did exist <3 @watamizu_
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10242 Posts
April 20 2013 00:23 GMT
#12
Widow mine + Hellion/Battlehellion drop. vs any race.
Send double drop. one to their ramp (or choke between the main and natural) with widow mines and bury them.
Second the other drop to the main to scare probes into running into mines. :D
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
GenesisX
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada4267 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-20 00:43:59
April 20 2013 00:28 GMT
#13
k i've tried doing roach hydra against bio and now I know why the pros don't do it lol... didn't really incorporate nydus at all so once I get one against terran mech i'll post it ;;

edit: didn't want to double post but finished the first project. good results
133 221 333 123 111
-Kaiser-
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Canada932 Posts
April 20 2013 02:32 GMT
#14
On April 20 2013 09:28 GenesisX wrote:
k i've tried doing roach hydra against bio and now I know why the pros don't do it lol... didn't really incorporate nydus at all so once I get one against terran mech i'll post it ;;

edit: didn't want to double post but finished the first project. good results


Stephano does it!

Gotta do the 1/1 roach timing and then 2/2 roach/hydra timing.
3 Hatch Before Cool
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
April 20 2013 03:00 GMT
#15
Ye it worked!
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
April 20 2013 03:51 GMT
#16
On April 20 2013 08:19 Chairman Ray wrote:
In a ZvP, I would like to see a Hatch being proxied at 10 at your third, canceled, and then a pool being built on there. At standard expo timing, send a drone to your natural and fight with the scouting probe trying to block the expo in order to fake expo before pool. Once pool finishes, send 6 lings, then expo at your 3rd in order to save the pool. The toss probably hasn't walled off or built a cannon yet, so the 6 lings may do some good damage.

This sounds like a fucking awesome idea hahaha
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
GTPGlitch
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
5061 Posts
April 20 2013 06:12 GMT
#17
burrow roach with overlord drop allin pls :D

can hide in ground or air ^_^
Jo Byung Se #1 fan | CJ_Rush(reborn) fan | Liquid'Jinro(ret) fan | Liquid'Taeja fan | oGsTheSuperNada fan | Iris[gm](ret) fan |
ApocAlypsE007
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Israel1007 Posts
April 20 2013 08:54 GMT
#18
PvP
Build 2 Warp Prisms, 2 Immortals and a bunch of sentries. (DT's if excess gas) bring the 1st 2xImmortal drop back to his base, when he brings his army to deal with it, place the second Warp Prism in his nat, forcefield his ramp and kill his nat! (Has a chance to take down many many units if you have DT's warping from the second warp prism. After that? I dunno. I didn't play much Protoss in HotS but probably Voidray+HT+Archon+Zealots works well.
I'm playing the game, the one that will take me to my end, i'm waiting for the rain, TO WASH-- WHO I AM!!!
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
April 20 2013 18:25 GMT
#19
He plays at a pretty high level, opponent might not be "stupid" enough to bring his whole army back into his main for a drop. Always worth a shot though.
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
GenesisX
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada4267 Posts
April 21 2013 02:30 GMT
#20
"finished" 4 projects already. feel free to ask me any questions!
133 221 333 123 111
Quincel
Profile Joined August 2012
119 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-29 22:14:22
April 24 2013 15:25 GMT
#21
A couple of burrow ideas, pretty minor gimmicks I've always wondered if they'd work at a high level:

1. Pre-emptive burrowed banelings at the third base. A few builds either do or could have both burrow and banelings before the third is usually taken, and 3 or 4 evenly spread out banes could cover a whole mineral line (I think). Then just wait a minute or two for saturation or detonate immediately on the transfer.

2. Can you block gases from being taken with burrowed lings? You know, by burrowing them really tight up close to the geyser? I seem to remember something similar could be done in BW, and if it still works then I can imagine some trickery being possible with it (or if playing against Terran, at least a really cheap way to force a scan).

Thanks, and good luck!
Dyme
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany523 Posts
April 24 2013 15:55 GMT
#22
Can Locusts enter Nydus networks?

If yes, Mass Swarm Hosts, burrow them at home and rally Locusts into Nyduses. Attack via Nydus.
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