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I apologize for the title it wasn't mean to be so explicit. it should be something along the lines of "My opinions around DOTA 2 and sc2"
So I’m going to start working on some story ideas over the weekend and hopefully I’ll have something done by next Friday, which will be half decent. P.s. can someone tell me why Microsoft always wants a comma before “which” always has confused me. Granted I just go along with it but I would like to know the reason behind it. Anyways so what I want to talk about today is the importance of writing. More importantly, though, I want to talk about DOTA 2 today and why I think it is awesome, even more so than sc2.
![[image loading]](http://gametrails.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Oh-My.png)
Now my main issue while playing sc2 is that it is a very isolated activity unless you have a clan. Finding clans, at least for me, hasn’t been the easiest and, or best experience so I quickly gave up on it and went back to playing sc2 alone. Granted I had some friends in high school that played it but none of them played it or liked it as much as I did. Eventually I stopped playing completely until HOTS came out and I still haven’t gotten around to playing the campaign, this is mainly because of work though. I cannot wait for the summer when I get to play it and actually have fun with it, thinking about going for the brutal accomplishment. Anyways the endpoint is it became an isolating behavior that I decided to stop due to both boredom and wanting to hangout with my friends more often. I stopped when I was playing platinum and number one in my division. Not really that incredible but I was proud of almost getting into diamond :D.
Eventually I started playing some custom game that was like DOTA 2, something like Aeon of the Storm. In hindsight that game was awful and horrible balanced; the mechanics were awful and last hitting was pretty terrible. BUT at the time I was incredibly pleased with the game and had a lot of fun. Before I had started playing it I had seen the first international and at the time I thought that the game looked pretty cool and I would wait for it to come out or I got a beta key. After playing Aeon of the Storm though I started to watch YouTube content of DOTA 2 and knew I had to start playing MOBA’s that were legitimate. So I tried HoN didn’t really have any ties to it so I got bored after a game or two, plus the people were really douche. Went back to Aeon of the Storm and eventually a friend and I bought two DOTA 2 keys for 25 dollars each. We bought the keys fairly early on so I would say it was definitely worth the money.
The first game I ever played on DOTA 2 was like a dream come true. Before I had played I had watched at least 20 purge videos on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/user/PurgeGamers?feature= which really improved my game knowledge drastically. I went in and I already knew each hero and what they were capable of doing. I decided from the get-go that I was going to be Crystal Maiden. For more information check out: http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Crystal_Maiden where you can see the abilities and such. The reason why I chose her was that she was a support hero that could gank extremely well in the early game and aura was really good for some carries. Plus I wanted a support character cause I knew I was going to be a noob and wanted some more experience before I tried my hand at a really carry hero. I played it fairly normal till at about 5 minutes I used my smoke and went towards the middle lane and managed to get first blood by getting throwing out one last ice bolt after having already dove past the tier one tower. It was absolutely exhilarating and then right after a chorus of “good job” and “that was pretty sick dude” made it to the chat. Right there I knew this was the game for me.
Now I know trying to compare a game like sc2 to DOTA 2 isn’t really possible but I’m going to try and explain what makes me like DOTA 2 more regardless. Lets just ignore the isolation argument I made in the beginning for 1v1 and just admit that playing 1v1 is a stressful activity. Hell it can also be extremely frustrating when you lose to that DT rush or six pool. It’s easy just to throw your hands up in frustration and blame that player for being a douche, which I did more than I’m proud of but I never lashed out on chat! Furthermore, throughout the 1v1 match everything is extremely accelerated so you are constantly trying to get more and more done in a short period of time. It’s tough to do all this in a game let alone a 20+ minute game. In DOTA 2 I can honestly say I have never felt explicitly stressed about something, I have definitely been frustrated but not stressed. When playing you can sit back and just calmly last hit or harass your opponent in the lane stage of the game. It is almost peaceful and then eventually a fight will break out and you get a little adrenaline pumping but afterwards it quickly dies down as you focus on the other tasks at hand for the game.
Moving past the lane stage part of the game (typically after 10 to 20 minutes have elapsed), it becomes focused around teamwork and movement through the map; primary objectives for the players being to find kills without dying, to avoid dying, and to kill towers while still defending your own. Its nice to just move through the map feeling like all that work in the beginning is starting to pay off as you are now easily able to destroy creeps and heroes if you play correctly. Strategy becomes an integral part of the game now because you have to make choices on whether or not to make trades or to take risks. So that strategy part of my brain that I used a ton in sc2 still gets a bit of workout while I play this game, which is a nice bonus.
The glory of DOTA 2 for me is that I feel freer while playing. I don’t feel constricted to some “build” or race. It’s just my hero, my team, and I working towards the common goal of defeating the bad guys. When I sit I’m not making my posture is right to optimize my movement, I’m just in whatever is comfortable at the time. I’m not worried about that itch on my left eye midgame because it’s not going to be the end of the world if I take my hand of the keyboard while moving around the map. The slower pace of the game makes it so I can really just enjoy the game rather than be worried about each minor movement. Some say that the flaw to the game is that it takes to long for one game but I think that its length is its genius. If one team completely outmatches the other than a game could end in 14 minutes while a fair game I have seen last 96 minutes and at the end the guy who was streaming was so pumped and happy with the game that I even I was happy for him. The longer the game the more epic the game should be, this is true in sc2 and is no exception for DOTA 2 and my god some of the games I have been in that go into the 40+ minute mark are just some of my best memories in gaming ever.
To address some of the weaknesses of the game at this point I would say that it is extremely dependent on a solid player base, both in numbers and behavior. DOTA players have a reputation for being jackasses but if you play enough you will find the real hidden gems in their of some of the nicest people out there. As for the learning curve for this game, which is notoriously brutal, there really isn’t anything to be done for it honestly. Just try and make a great tutorial that doesn’t feel like a “tutorial” to the player is the only option because this learning curve is also what makes the complexity of the game so appealing to me and many other players as well.
Overall I guess sc2 just wasn’t my cup of tea. Hope you enjoyed this any comments are encouraged!
 
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You know, you can express your opinion without making objective value statements. But I guess that gets less blog views.
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Each to their own. They're two completely different games and, just like you said, comparing SC2 to DOTA2 "isn't really possible". I personally like the competitiveness of Starcraft and don't mind playing 1v1 
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This is a bad subject to wonder into...
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I found it funny when you mentioned how you felt "freer" when playing DotA versus Starcraft. That in Starcraft you were limited to "a build" and "a race" but playing with just your hero and team felt somehow less constraining. I don't want to flame you, but your opinion is precisely opposite of mine. To me you're comparison here is like a child loving his solitary action figure more than his giant box of legos because he feels he will be less constrained and "freer" while playing. Whereas myself, as a child, would always pick the legos because I could build ANY toy I wanted and play with it, I would only be limited by my own creativity and I'd be inspired by the rawness of the blank lego canvas. But that's me, and you're you.
To each his own I guess. And to me thinking anything is better than Starcraft is silly. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, it was interesting to read what is so interesting about DotA from a dedicated fan as I don't really get it myself.
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On April 19 2013 14:04 sob3k wrote:
You know, you can express your opinion without making objective value statements.
You are completely correct in this and i apologize. i put an edit at the top to make it more clear but it didn't see an edit for the titel so i did the best i could. won't happen again. once again i apologize about making such a statement
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On April 19 2013 14:31 Kommatiazo wrote:
I found it funny when you mentioned how you felt "freer" when playing DotA versus Starcraft. That in Starcraft you were limited to "a build" and "a race" but playing with just your hero and team felt somehow less constraining. I don't want to flame you, but your opinion is precisely opposite of mine. To me you're comparison here is like a child loving his solitary action figure more than his giant box of legos because he feels he will be less constrained and "freer" while playing. Whereas myself, as a child, would always pick the legos because I could build ANY toy I wanted and play with it, I would only be limited by my own creativity and I'd be inspired by the rawness of the blank lego canvas.
The takeaway i wanted from this section, but i guess i should have edited this part, was that the constant movement and stress from playing was taking away from that sense of freedom that you, Kommatiazo, obviously feel while playing. When playing it i just become stuck in the little details and lose it while in dota i'm not stuck in these little details and i just get to play the game. Maybe i just didnt play long enough to really get enough fluency in sc2 to feel that freedom. thank your for your opinion though, much aprreciated
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first off fix the title ......
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On April 19 2013 19:57 Lokk wrote:
first off fix the title ...... no opinions allowed
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Once your over the "utter newb" barrier in Dota 2 i would comapre them like this:
Dota 2 is better because:
You can play it casually and it's fun.
You can play it "competetive" and it's fun.
You can play it "dead serious" and it's fun.
You can play it "weird" and it's fun.
On the other side SC2:
If you play it casually it's fun.
If you play it weird you most probably just get your ass kicked.
If you play it "half"-serious it often feels like work.
If you play it utterly serious it IS work.
Or the spin the analogies someone else brought up:
While there are more "Legos" in SC2 than in Dota 2, Dota 2 actually allows you to play with most of them, in SC you basically aren't allowed to use the majority of them because most pieces have pointy edges that will hurt you.
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On April 19 2013 19:59 Skamtet wrote:no opinions allowed
no attention whore titles allowed.
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On April 19 2013 20:07 Velr wrote:
Once your over the "utter newb" barrier in Dota 2 i would comapre them like this:
Dota 2 is better because:
You can play it casually and it's fun.
You can play it "competetive" and it's fun.
You can play it "dead serious" and it's fun.
You can play it "weird" and it's fun.
On the other side SC2:
If you play it casually it's fun.
If you play it weird you most probably just get your ass kicked.
If you play it "half"-serious it often feels like work.
If you play it utterly serious it IS work.
Or the spin the analogies someone else brought up:
While there are more "Legos" in SC2 than in Dota 2, Dota 2 actually allows you to play with most of them, in SC you basically aren't allowed to use the majority of them because most pieces have pointy edges that will hurt you.
Strangely, this was a statement more in line with the blog post than the blog post itself, which mostly just rambles a lot about his experiences and then says at the end "I guess Dota 2 is just more my type of game." 1/5.
If a game "feels like work" and you know what work feels like, you shouldn't be playing it. People complain about the practice that goes into getting good at SC2, but honestly the reason so many people are good at SC2 is that they find the practice engaging. They feel highs in victories and anger at defeats. I don't feel that's really "work". And I definitely have felt "hurt" by trying certain strategies and losing a few games (like your lego analogy).
I've never played Dota 2 at all, but I know from multiplayer and WoW that my enjoyment of the game would probably be lessened by the fact that I know that 80% of the gameplay on my team is entirely out of my control, and so 80% of the game is not won or lost by me, but by my team. When I play a 4v4 in SC2, and I get cannon-rushed, 6-pooled, and have marines and zealots rallied into my base, I'll die. Every game. From then on, if I was able to defend myself halfway decently, my team has a shot of winning - if they decide to, but the game itself is out of my control. I don't like this - whether it's balanced or unbalanced, whether it's good or bad, whether it's popular or unpopular, I don't like that sometimes this happens.
Similarly, in Dota 2, if I just randomly have a teammate or two who decides he's going to suicide himself a lot, their team gets very powerful - and I never really had a means of preventing that. This is why I like SC2 1v1.
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Dota 2 is fun but I get more out of SC II sure the whole alone thing is evident. I sometimes teamates can just suck in dota 2 and be rude. I like both games, and I play what i am in the mood for.
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This is my reasoning behind why mario is greater than DOTA 2. You can ride a green dinosaur, and be an italian meatball loving plumber. He has a mustache, and can jump really high. You can find items, instead of being forced to buy them in some dumb shop, which allow you to fly, and shoot fireballs, and become a doctor. You don't get constrained to 1 champion during a game, and you don't just play 1 level. That's the worst part about dota, you only play 1 level, but in Mario, there's like hundreds of levels. Also if you want to play with your brother or sister, they can be Luigi. This makes the game far better than DOTA, because it's already a 1 player game, but if you want to, you can play with your friend, you don't have to though. Also during games, you're never playing at the same time, which is like the worst thing ever. Everyone knows that you are better than them at Mario, even if they get to be Luigi. Mario could also beat all the DOTA champs, if he had star power. This makes Mario better than the DOTA champs, beause he can kill them all if he went into a fight vs every single one of them. I don't want to keep going on with my infinitely long list about why Mario is better than DOTA 2, but I think these reasons are definitely enough.
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On April 20 2013 01:07 Nymphaceae wrote:
This is my reasoning behind why mario is greater than DOTA 2. You can ride a green dinosaur, and be an italian meatball loving plumber. He has a mustache, and can jump really high. You can find items, instead of being forced to buy them in some dumb shop, which allow you to fly, and shoot fireballs, and become a doctor. You don't get constrained to 1 champion during a game, and you don't just play 1 level. That's the worst part about dota, you only play 1 level, but in Mario, there's like hundreds of levels. Also if you want to play with your brother or sister, they can be Luigi. This makes the game far better than DOTA, because it's already a 1 player game, but if you want to, you can play with your friend, you don't have to though. Also during games, you're never playing at the same time, which is like the worst thing ever. Everyone knows that you are better than them at Mario, even if they get to be Luigi. Mario could also beat all the DOTA champs, if he had star power. This makes Mario better than the DOTA champs, beause he can kill them all if he went into a fight vs every single one of them. I don't want to keep going on with my infinitely long list about why Mario is better than DOTA 2, but I think these reasons are definitely enough.
1/5 starz XOXO <3
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im going to write a blog saying why i think apples are better than oranges, i mean they are both fruit but shit man . . those apples
Dota 2 is better because:
You can play it casually and it's fun. - boring after 20 mins, everyone leaves games anyway
You can play it "competetive" and it's fun. - not really i dont have anyone who plays it, get called a nub if i pug
You can play it "dead serious" and it's fun. - dead serious in a game unless its IS my only source of income sounds wierd
You can play it "weird" and it's fun., you mean you can play the game in ANY way you want?
On the other side SC2:
If you play it casually it's fun. its always fun
If you play it weird you most probably just get your ass kicked. Yeah tru. . . its still fun tho tapping those keys
If you play it "half"-serious it often feels like work, erm . . i would sooner play sc2 all day half serious than go to work
If you play it utterly serious it IS work. i would be the best goddamn employee in the universe if this was my work! god i would try SOOOOOOOO hard! Overtime, you got it, cover my friends shift you got it, pull all nighters - you got it, go that extra mile, you got it! Take a pay cut, maybe!
........................................................................
Dota2 is good because
It gives me a break from sc2
its a game that ultimately wastes my time of which none of this wasted time will ever matter to anyone anywhere
its different from sc2
on the other side, sc2 is good becuase
everyday i cant wait to play sc2
the bm is funny as fuck
ive been playing sc for 12 yrs or so (nooo no continuously you mad head) . .why am i not sick of this game? My gf REALLY wants to know!
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On April 20 2013 01:56 StatixEx wrote:
im going to write a blog saying why i think apples are better than oranges, i mean they are both fruit but shit man . . those apples
I like the clementines the most. I mean they're easier to peel, and easier to conceal.
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On April 20 2013 01:58 Nymphaceae wrote:
I like the clementines the most. I mean they're easier to peel, and easier to conceal.
HOLY shIT! YOu have a godamn point!
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BroodWar is better than both of them.
Thread over.
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On April 20 2013 03:05 Butterednuts wrote:
1/5 for wall of text
Not just any old unreadable wall of text, one that starts with a dumb grammar question and the sentence "Anyways so what I want to talk about today is the importance of writing." If TL were a less civilized place, this would be a good time for willywonka_tellmemore.jpg to rear its ugly head.
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On April 20 2013 01:07 Nymphaceae wrote:
This is my reasoning behind why mario is greater than DOTA 2. You can ride a green dinosaur, and be an italian meatball loving plumber. He has a mustache, and can jump really high. You can find items, instead of being forced to buy them in some dumb shop, which allow you to fly, and shoot fireballs, and become a doctor. You don't get constrained to 1 champion during a game, and you don't just play 1 level. That's the worst part about dota, you only play 1 level, but in Mario, there's like hundreds of levels. Also if you want to play with your brother or sister, they can be Luigi. This makes the game far better than DOTA, because it's already a 1 player game, but if you want to, you can play with your friend, you don't have to though. Also during games, you're never playing at the same time, which is like the worst thing ever. Everyone knows that you are better than them at Mario, even if they get to be Luigi. Mario could also beat all the DOTA champs, if he had star power. This makes Mario better than the DOTA champs, beause he can kill them all if he went into a fight vs every single one of them. I don't want to keep going on with my infinitely long list about why Mario is better than DOTA 2, but I think these reasons are definitely enough.
hmmm you've convinced me at least
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Old pros from bw had spoken their minds so many times about sctoo.
Dota is awesome, bestest game 2013.
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Even for a typical partisan blog, this was particularly low calorie. You didn't even really compare Dota2 and SC2, you compared a team game versus an individual game. I could compare Halo with Streetfighter the same way.
And to address some oblique arguments, it's a source of amusing irony to me that Valve is lauded for "empowering the people" but then complain that Blizzard isn't hand-holding every player and all of e-sports the same way Valve is.
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On April 20 2013 02:56 ninazerg wrote:
BroodWar is better than both of them.
Thread over.
Glad I didn't have to read through a wall of text to get this
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On April 20 2013 06:40 Nymphaceae wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2013 02:56 ninazerg wrote:
BroodWar is better than both of them.
Thread over. Glad I didn't have to read through a wall of text to get this
Amen.
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@OP, I have to agree with your post. As a person who loves SC, (The Campaign) but I find the multiplayer IS to stressful. How many posts have people seen regarding ladder anxiety, or this race OP and this build is hard, etc....That all stems from people being stressed out during a game, trying very hard to win but still losing half the games they play.
There is no time to say "wow this is really enjoyable and relaxing). SC2 is a game where you better be on top of your game as soon as your workers go to work. Your build order better be tight, you better not get supply blocked, you better this and you better that.
This style of gameplay makes gameplay itself...stressful. Who here likes being stressed when they play a game? Any SC player that says they don't get stressed is a liar. Every person that plays SC has either gone through ladder anxiety, or are still dealing with it.
I understand that some games are just meant to be competitive. But can't a game be competitive and fun? This is where DOTA 2 shines. The game can be both very competitive and very casual, but either way you play....ITS FUN. I have just recently played this type of game for the first time. And I must say that I have never felt the sort of anxiety or stress that SC2 puts on a player, and this is just jumping into a game and having a very light knowledge of the game.
Where in SC2 I have invested countless hours of trying to improve, whether it has been doing research online, participating in replay reviews to help my gameplay, watching streams, looking on forums, practicing in custom matches, and also laddering.
All of the time invested in SC2 and the game still brings tons of frustration. You forgot to scout, oopsie now you die. You made the wrong unit types, oopsie now you die instantly. You forgot to larva inject? Oopsie now you die.
There are so many aspects of SC2 that make the game stressful that I believe it can never reach the popularity of other games. Yea it has the e-sport pro scene, but what Blizzard forgets is the casual player base is what makes games a Huge success vs just a success.
I know for myself and a lot of people I know, we don't have the time to invest to be "good" at SC2. A lot of people have full time jobs, families and other hobbies.
With all do respect, I don't think it's my duty to figure out "how" to enjoy SC2, the game should be fun regardless of how you are playing. With DOTA 2 I picked a game up I have never played before, and even though I suck at it, the game was tons of fun to play. After I was finished, I wasn't upset and wondering what I did wrong and watching 4 straight replays of losses figuring out how to be better. It was genuine fun which is sad because I love SC2, but the multiplayer aspect of the game just is too stressful to be fun.
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EPT
