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After reading Azera's excellent blog (read it if you haven't already) I felt I should share some accumulated insights about being an undergrad I've picked up through a combination of experience, observation, and dumb luck.
Of course, these insights are of no use to me, personally, anymore, since I've been out of le moulin diplôme for almost three years now. But they might be of use to some people who are still in there or haven't started yet... or, who, for some crazed reason, want to go back.
Pretty much all these tips are going to revolve around one central question: figuring out how to graduate with a minimum of regrets in terms of missed opportunities for fun and a good start (professional, technical, moral, intellectual, social, etc.) for the rest of your adult life. These two goals aren't necessarily synced, nor are they opposed; they're orthogonal, which means you're going to have to allocate your effort, time, and money (in that order in how much each affects your chances of fulfilling the goal) between them.
1. Don't do things half-assed - I knew a girl in college who wanted to become a banker due to familial pressure. She didn't know whether she really wanted to be a banker deep down inside, but figured she should give it a shot. In her third year, she did an easy stint at a lightweight boutique, thought that's what finance was all about, and said she liked it. She got a hardcore job after graduation in the IBD bowels of some New York bulge bracket, did not fit well. Suffered a ton. Gained twenty pounds in nine months, cried herself to sleep three nights every week, decided she hated banking, had an existential crisis, decided she loved working for nonprofits instead. Trouble is, by that time, her attitudes towards rich and poor were pretty warped and she wound up getting kicked out of a non-profit consulting firm for making some fairly rude remarks about race and economic 'performance' on an email that got forwarded to, of all people, the chairwoman of the NAACP. Her story ends on a bright note though: our heroine ended up working for the IMF.
The lesson here is that you shouldn't do something halfway because you won't be able to figure out whether you really like it or not. The only way to figure out whether you really like what you 'want' to do is if you put the pedal to the metal and invite the world to take a shit on you via your chosen path. Otherwise you might not figure out whether the sacrifices you'll have to make are worth it. And believe me, everything you'll want to do will come with sacrifices.
2. Do try a lot of things out, though - Don't take #1 to mean you shouldn't dabble in a bunch of things. You should dabble in anything and everything that sparks your interest, because otherwise you might miss out on that one questline (closing multi-billion dollar deals! doing cool software projects! being the first guy in the NSA to speedily crack 8192-bit encryption! writing a movie that takes nine Oscars!) you're willing to give up sleep, romantic prospects, and parts of your mental health for. I say this, because if you've graduated but you haven't figured out what gets your juices going yet, you've probably missed one of the best chances in life to figure that out.
I don't mean you need to figure out exactly what career you want to be (you won't know that until you start working for a while, in all likelihood) but you'll need to know what you like to do (do I like meeting and getting to know new people? speaking in front of a crowd? creating artistic content? counting things? crunching and estimating things to draw up a game plan? taking clear orders in a hierarchical bureaucracy, or working in a loosely organized crew, or simply being a freelancer/lone wolf?) And please don't end up as that boring cliche who will enjoy doing anything for a six-figure salary--society has enough of those people, you don't need to add another puff of PM 2.5 to the moral pollution.
3. Get good at it - This relates back to #1. But instead of trying to seek 'hardcoreness' here, you're trying to seek expertise. You really won't figure out whether you like something or not until you hit that plateau of proficiency, so seek to get really good at whatever it is you are interested in. This is something I wish I'd done more of in college--I was satisfied at being mediocre in a bunch of things, and only now am I realizing that had I really drilled down and tried to become a master at a few things I could have become a much better person.
Now, so far, a lot of what I've talked about revolves around career stuff. That's only half the battle. The other half is about finding emotional fulfillment AKA love.
Yep, you heard me right. You'll miss out on a lot of what it means to be human if you die without ever having given yourself over to somebody heart, body, and soul.
4. Sleep around a lot - This relates back to the dabbling thing I talked about earlier, as well as the half-assed thing as well. You're not going to figure out whether you like somebody without literally going all the way with them, and you probably should get to know a lot of people in that sense before you settle down on that one person. The reason you should do this in college (and not, say, in your mid-twenties) is because college is the last time on earth when you more than 80% of your lays are going to involve a superficial emotional or financial commitment. Past college, most times you sleep with somebody, there's going to be an implicit romantic or financial string attached, no matter how hard you try to deny it. So dick around, it won't hurt anybody (as long as you don't catch an STD or knock somebody up). Because hey, nothing is cooler than realizing that hot Georgian chick who lived down the hall who you banged six times over ten days is now married to the son of a Russian oligarch--you got to rent, for free, what that bastard just signed over X/2 to buy, where X is the net assets under the jurisdiction of the hypothetical divorce court.
5. Learn how to make other people love you - The old saw that men and women approach relationships differently is partly true. A more accurate description would be that everybody approaches relationships differently. Every person has their own unique set of preferences, their unique set of pleasure buttons and pet peeves, when it comes to dating. These things can't really be generalized in words, but depend more on a set of nonverbal intuitions--a sort of 'feel'. So get that 'feel' right. Learn exactly what to say and how to act to make somebody fall for you from the appetizer at an overpriced downtown restaurant all the way to breakfast in bed. As you may have already guessed, I've found food usually works for me, but you might discover other methods.
The trick here is that you should always seek to improve on a rational basis. Evaluate every single performance from the eye of a film critic--was it believable? could there have been scenes or dialogue that were played better? could it have been shortened and still delivered all the required plot points? could the production budget have been cut down--did you really need all those special effects and expensive props? etc. And constantly seek to better your game.
6. At the same time, remember who you really are - Don't lose track of your inner self amidst the posturing that goes on to get laid. Remember that at the end of the day Mr. or Mrs. Right has to wake up next to you at 6:30 AM every Monday for a long time. At 6:30 AM on a Monday, I can't fake anything worth shit, and you probably can't, either. You'll need to make sure that special somebody fits with the real you, not some fake perception of you. Generally, the real you is the you that requires a minimal amount of effort to maintain from a social interaction and critical thinking perspective. Basically, if #5 tells you to become Casanova on E, #6 is about becoming Homer Simpson on donuts. So at a certain point (usually after a month, or if you're a guy, whenever your new gf goes into 'temporary maintenance') you can start dropping hints of the real you on her. I start with farting in bed and go up from there, but you might find that a little too daunting, in which case, that's fine, you're just a whipped little pussy and you should tell him/her that--better he/she finds out about the real you, right? 
7. If you find that one person, don't let him or her go - I'm not going to repeat myself, so if you'd like to know more about the logic here, you should read some of my other blog posts.
Okay, you've got that great career questline, and you have your maiden/warrior to accompany you. Now what? Now comes enlightenment.
8. Try assorted chemical substances - College is the last safe time you'll have to get high. It takes around 90 days, at most, for most drug residues to disappear from your body. (90 days is for hair samples--it might be shorter for urine, saliva, or blood). A lot of decent jobs require a drug test for admission, and you don't want to have 90-day stretches of unemployment after college... but in college, you can plan out your 420 timetable so that by the time you need to pee into a cup you're completely clean.
9. Learn to write and pick up a sense of wit - Try writing a piece of fiction, no matter how boring or stupid it may seem. It'll be a ton of fun and you'll learn about human nature. Also, writing (and speaking) well is a requirement for nearly any career. Wit is also a wonderful way to lubricate basic social interactions, and turn the unbearably awkward into the almost passable.
10. Pick up a sense of self-criticism - It's easy to become wrapped up with yourself in college. Pick up a habit of giving yourself a 'reason you suck' speech every single night, before you go to bed. Self-reflection is essential for figuring out how to become a better person. As a bonus, you'll get gripping, emotionally-charged dreams/nightmares that leave you a shivering ball of tears and laughter when you wake up.
Social stuff:
11. Help people you know succeed - Don't let jealousy get in the way of actively helping those you know succeed. Indeed, you should make it so that you would rather people you know--even if you don't like those people--succeed, since the more successful people you'll know, the better the rest of your life will become. This is something I must emphasize for the Chinese/Koreans/Taiwanese/Singaporeans here, because it seems to me a lot of us have this very lonely, singular, and hypercompetitive definition of 'success' that almost requires us to tear each other down. Don't fall into that cultural trap. Fight it.
12. Keep in touch with everybody and get to know as many people as you can - Seriously, don't be a hermit. And more than that, get to know people from a broad spectrum of society--jocks, stoners, geeks, loners, etc. You'll need to deal with all these groups of people in one way or another after you graduate, so why not practice in a low-pressure setting?
That's pretty much all for now. If any TLers have other tidbits, feel free to leave 'em below--would be highly interested, thanks!
 
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I'm going to college soon, and apart from #4, I think I'll be trying almost all of these when I go to college. College is definitely a time for self-exploration :D.
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In college I played AD&D (2nd edition!) on friday and saturday nights in the dorm basement. Of my 9 member D&D expedition, 5 are married now, 4 with kids, and the other 4 are pretty much nerds making bank.
So even if you have no hope all the way from highschool thru college, never getting drunk, skipping parties like they were the plague, and epic failing with women, chances are you will still make bank, or have negative bank (kids).
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I can't tell if I love this advice or hate it. I agree with pretty much everything but sections 4-6 just come off so impersonal and self centred that it creates such a cognitive dissonance in me :\
+ Show Spoiler +
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On March 21 2013 08:08 Burrfoot wrote:
In college I played AD&D (2nd edition!) on friday and saturday nights in the dorm basement. Of my 9 member D&D expedition, 5 are married now, 4 with kids, and the other 4 are pretty much nerds making bank.
So even if you have no hope all the way from highschool thru college, never getting drunk, skipping parties like they were the plague, and epic failing with women, chances are you will still make bank, or have negative bank (kids).
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13. Skipping classes to ladder is okay.
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On March 21 2013 09:48 Lexpar wrote:
13. Skipping classes to ladder is okay.
Lol.... I did this today. Feel pretty terrible but I don't think I'll fail any classes
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7a. If she likes Daft Punk, she's the one.
7b. Don't worry, everyone gets UTIs now and then.
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11. Help people you know succeed
Yes, I've been preaching this for so long.
I like having rich friends.
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I'm pretty excited for school and to be able to try more things. Not really sure how much I'll be doing 4 and 8 though  .
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More details on 5 please. Don't link me to books ie:Dale Carnegie. Personal experiences :D
Also,
"Her story ends on a bright note though: our heroine ended up working for the IMF."
Someone told her what the IMF(International mfkers) does right.....right??
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come on man, don't do drugs 
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8 2d ed. Try assorted chemical substances - College is the last safe time you'll have to get high. It takes around 90 days, at most, for most drug residues to disappear from your body. (90 days is for hair samples--it might be shorter for urine, saliva, or blood). A lot of decent jobs require a drug test for admission, and you don't want to have 90-day stretches of unemployment after college... but in college, you can plan out your 420 timetable so that by the time you need to pee into a cup you're completely clean. Winners don't do drugs (the new catplanetcatplanet amendment)
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Haha, thanks for the advice. I'll keep these in mind for when I get into college. Cheers!
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I'm not sure I agree with all of this. Instead of a long, point-by-point rebuttal, I'll just make a few comments.
I agree on getting good at something- diving in, going balls-deep into some project in order to know if you like it or not. That experience made me realize my path in undergrad was not the correct one, and I'm now pursuing a graduate degree which is much more closely aligned with my interests. I also found a wife and played football (American) along the way. That leads me to my next agreement.
Have something else going on- dabble somewhere else to keep you sane. Great advice.
That might be all I really agree with. Some of the other points just say to me "Try and be a massive dickbag, because this is the last time you have a chance to get away with it."
Anyway, my take home point is- go to college and become a responsible adult.
Post-post edit: This is a bit strong. Most of my criticism is at the early points made. Self-reflection and networking are obviously good things to do.
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On March 21 2013 10:59 Lexpar wrote:
8 2d ed. Try assorted chemical substances - College is the last safe time you'll have to get high. It takes around 90 days, at most, for most drug residues to disappear from your body. (90 days is for hair samples--it might be shorter for urine, saliva, or blood). A lot of decent jobs require a drug test for admission, and you don't want to have 90-day stretches of unemployment after college... but in college, you can plan out your 420 timetable so that by the time you need to pee into a cup you're completely clean. Winners don't do drugs (the new catplanetcatplanet amendment)
ya that.
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On March 21 2013 12:09 catplanetcatplanet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 10:59 Lexpar wrote:
8 2d ed. Try assorted chemical substances - College is the last safe time you'll have to get high. It takes around 90 days, at most, for most drug residues to disappear from your body. (90 days is for hair samples--it might be shorter for urine, saliva, or blood). A lot of decent jobs require a drug test for admission, and you don't want to have 90-day stretches of unemployment after college... but in college, you can plan out your 420 timetable so that by the time you need to pee into a cup you're completely clean. Winners don't do drugs (the new catplanetcatplanet amendment) ya that.
i dont see whats wrong with trying weed or a cigarette. college really is the best time to try it. shadysands isnt advocating that you get hooked on drugs. having the experience of knowing what getting high is like, what smoking a cigarette is like, is valuable. you understand it more, and you can make an informed decision on whether you should do it or not. one time isn't going to harm you any more than many other things in life that people already do.
just talking about stuff like weed. shit like heroin is a different story. never do that.
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On March 21 2013 13:08 ieatkids5 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 12:09 catplanetcatplanet wrote:On March 21 2013 10:59 Lexpar wrote:
8 2d ed. Try assorted chemical substances - College is the last safe time you'll have to get high. It takes around 90 days, at most, for most drug residues to disappear from your body. (90 days is for hair samples--it might be shorter for urine, saliva, or blood). A lot of decent jobs require a drug test for admission, and you don't want to have 90-day stretches of unemployment after college... but in college, you can plan out your 420 timetable so that by the time you need to pee into a cup you're completely clean. Winners don't do drugs (the new catplanetcatplanet amendment) ya that. i dont see whats wrong with trying weed or a cigarette. college really is the best time to try it. shadysands isnt advocating that you get hooked on drugs. having the experience of knowing what getting high is like, what smoking a cigarette is like, is valuable. you understand it more, and you can make an informed decision on whether you should do it or not. one time isn't going to harm you any more than many other things in life that people already do. just talking about stuff like weed. shit like heroin is a different story. never do that.
In my experience, there is nothing wrong with doing it once to see if it is for you. What is wrong is getting mixed up in the wrong crowd and moving from simple drugs to harder drugs. College is a very easy time to do that, especially for kids I've known. I don't want to be that kid that buys drugs from highschool dealers lol and has to beg them for their stuff as a college kid .
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On March 21 2013 13:08 ieatkids5 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 12:09 catplanetcatplanet wrote:On March 21 2013 10:59 Lexpar wrote:
8 2d ed. Try assorted chemical substances - College is the last safe time you'll have to get high. It takes around 90 days, at most, for most drug residues to disappear from your body. (90 days is for hair samples--it might be shorter for urine, saliva, or blood). A lot of decent jobs require a drug test for admission, and you don't want to have 90-day stretches of unemployment after college... but in college, you can plan out your 420 timetable so that by the time you need to pee into a cup you're completely clean. Winners don't do drugs (the new catplanetcatplanet amendment) ya that. i dont see whats wrong with trying weed or a cigarette. college really is the best time to try it. shadysands isnt advocating that you get hooked on drugs. having the experience of knowing what getting high is like, what smoking a cigarette is like, is valuable. you understand it more, and you can make an informed decision on whether you should do it or not. one time isn't going to harm you any more than many other things in life that people already do. just talking about stuff like weed. shit like heroin is a different story. never do that.
How can you understand heroin and make an informed decision about whether you should do it or not without trying?
#DevilsAdvocate #AnnoyingQuestions #FuckImSleepy
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^ so many hashtags...
anyway thanks shady, perfect breather for me before my last final tomorrow -.-
lol orthogonal, just had to do some cross products lol llv x wll ;_;
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United States24612 Posts
Regarding the career advice towards the beginning of the blog, I find this is very difficult for many college students. So many don't know what things they really like and will want to do vocationally. It's easy to say "try different things and different classes and you will find stuff you like" but it doesn't work out that well for many people. I have quite a few friends who are in their mid twenties now and still don't know wtf they should be going for professionally.
Also I just wasn't going to say anything... but I can't resist. Your suggestion to try various chemical substances, which I don't agree with, bothers me mostly because the only justification was that it's your last chance to avoid problems with drug tests. Really? That's why you should try it? I know you didn't mean it that way, but it comes across really oddly.
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On March 21 2013 13:38 Lexpar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 13:08 ieatkids5 wrote:On March 21 2013 12:09 catplanetcatplanet wrote:On March 21 2013 10:59 Lexpar wrote:
8 2d ed. Try assorted chemical substances - College is the last safe time you'll have to get high. It takes around 90 days, at most, for most drug residues to disappear from your body. (90 days is for hair samples--it might be shorter for urine, saliva, or blood). A lot of decent jobs require a drug test for admission, and you don't want to have 90-day stretches of unemployment after college... but in college, you can plan out your 420 timetable so that by the time you need to pee into a cup you're completely clean. Winners don't do drugs (the new catplanetcatplanet amendment) ya that. i dont see whats wrong with trying weed or a cigarette. college really is the best time to try it. shadysands isnt advocating that you get hooked on drugs. having the experience of knowing what getting high is like, what smoking a cigarette is like, is valuable. you understand it more, and you can make an informed decision on whether you should do it or not. one time isn't going to harm you any more than many other things in life that people already do. just talking about stuff like weed. shit like heroin is a different story. never do that. How can you understand heroin and make an informed decision about whether you should do it or not without trying? #DevilsAdvocate #AnnoyingQuestions #FuckImSleepy
because from what you know and the countless stories of lives being ruined by heroin, the risk of trying it most likely outweighs the experience gained. weed, on the other hand, has a much much lower risk-to-reward ratio.
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On March 21 2013 14:02 micronesia wrote:
Regarding the career advice towards the beginning of the blog, I find this is very difficult for many college students. So many don't know what things they really like and will want to do vocationally. It's easy to say "try different things and different classes and you will find stuff you like" but it doesn't work out that well for many people. I have quite a few friends who are in their mid twenties now and still don't know wtf they should be going for professionally.
what would you suggest college students do to find out what sort of career they want to do, if they really dont know?
i think doing what shady suggests is fine.
1) go out and try different things (take on internships, talk to and work with professors, get a part time job in the industry you're interested in, etc.)
2) really immerse yourself in the field as much as you can if you think you are interested so you can get a true feel for what it's actually like to work there.
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Russian Federation3631 Posts
arguably, there are better ways to spend $200k++ (compound interest!) than on a 4-5 year exercise of self-indulgence.
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United States24612 Posts
On March 21 2013 14:14 ieatkids5 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 14:02 micronesia wrote:
Regarding the career advice towards the beginning of the blog, I find this is very difficult for many college students. So many don't know what things they really like and will want to do vocationally. It's easy to say "try different things and different classes and you will find stuff you like" but it doesn't work out that well for many people. I have quite a few friends who are in their mid twenties now and still don't know wtf they should be going for professionally.
what would you suggest college students do to find out what sort of career they want to do, if they really dont know? i think doing what shady suggests is fine. Oh, there's nothing wrong with it, but I don't think it will help most people. People either already know it, or it isn't enough to help them. Maybe I underestimated the 'in-between' group.
1) go out and try different things (take on internships
In what? You already need a good idea of what you are interested to take on internships, and the point of taking on internships is to get a better idea of what you are interested. Where does this cycle begin? Some people have a good idea when they enter college, but I think most don't.
talk to and work with professors
In which department? Even if you think you have chosen a major, I don't know how likely you are to home in on your interests by trying to strike up a conversation randomly with a professor.
get a part time job in the industry you're interested in Same as internships
2) really immerse yourself in the field as much as you can if you think you are interested so you can get a true feel for what it's actually like to work there.
Yes it's easy to come up with a plan for how to decide if you like a field once you've decided on which field to try. It's not easy to come up with a field that is likely to be successful for many people though. I know I'm being annoying, but I feel this advice, which is commonly offered, is so general and at times obvious that it doesn't help most of the people who need advice.
I'm probably venting due to a greater issue though. For example, you will often hear President Obama talk about how we need to do a better job of encouraging students to study science so that they can make new domestic advancements in science, but nothing is done to clarify the path from an interest in science to a job in science for most graduates (high school, college, etc). Many people get college degrees in things that aren't at all useful for them because they couldn't figure out what was right for them. My friend got a degree in psychology which has been almost useless (save for the fact that it at least shows he did ok in a college program) and after being unemployed for a while is working as a bank teller. I do not believe this is his long term plan, but he has yet to figure out what he should do. I wish there was more advice available for how to avoid these types of problems.
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@micronesia
yes, you have a good point. and i agree that there is a big disparity between the students and the employers. hell, even school counselors and advisors aren't that great at what they do. i read a report about this disconnect, and how one of the big problems is that the advisors dont fully bridge the gap between what employers are looking for, and what students know about the path needed to get to a job. advisors are much more likely to recommend careers in academia over other choices, probably because that's the field they work in and are most knowledgeable about.
i think the reason i believe that shady's advice was solid was because it was how i thought as a high school and college student, and i believe it worked for me. details:
+ Show Spoiler +i wasn't sure what i wanted to do in high school. i was good at science, and enjoyed world history. i ended up doing part time work as an administrative assistant at a small company just to make some money and get some experience. i ended up learning tons about the operations of a company, sales, finance, accounting, and the semiconductor industry. this wasnt really my thing, and i decided that i would study international relations in college based on the fact that i knew getting a job with a degree in world history would be hard, and based on the collegeboard description of the IR major. i did two internships while in college, one in a nonprofit advocacy group pushing for campaign finance reform, and one in an IR think tank where i did research on economic competitiveness. i found that i wasn't really interested in these two areas either. after graduation (last year), and now, i am working for an NGO that hosts a number of programs on clean energy, which is something i really enjoy.
perhaps the number of people "in between" as you said may be higher, or it may be lower. we're not sure. but yeah, i agree with you that the steps between high school and a job are very unclear for students, and this is something that needs to be addressed.
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On March 21 2013 13:38 Lexpar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 13:08 ieatkids5 wrote:On March 21 2013 12:09 catplanetcatplanet wrote:On March 21 2013 10:59 Lexpar wrote:
8 2d ed. Try assorted chemical substances - College is the last safe time you'll have to get high. It takes around 90 days, at most, for most drug residues to disappear from your body. (90 days is for hair samples--it might be shorter for urine, saliva, or blood). A lot of decent jobs require a drug test for admission, and you don't want to have 90-day stretches of unemployment after college... but in college, you can plan out your 420 timetable so that by the time you need to pee into a cup you're completely clean. Winners don't do drugs (the new catplanetcatplanet amendment) ya that. i dont see whats wrong with trying weed or a cigarette. college really is the best time to try it. shadysands isnt advocating that you get hooked on drugs. having the experience of knowing what getting high is like, what smoking a cigarette is like, is valuable. you understand it more, and you can make an informed decision on whether you should do it or not. one time isn't going to harm you any more than many other things in life that people already do. just talking about stuff like weed. shit like heroin is a different story. never do that. How can you understand heroin and make an informed decision about whether you should do it or not without trying? #DevilsAdvocate #AnnoyingQuestions #FuckImSleepy
How can you make an informed decision about suicide without trying? Geez.
I don't care if you do drugs, but I sure as hell don't like it when you say things along the lines of "do drugs, it will be good for you".
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On March 21 2013 14:42 micronesia wrote:
I'm probably venting due to a greater issue though. For example, you will often hear President Obama talk about how we need to do a better job of encouraging students to study science so that they can make new domestic advancements in science, but nothing is done to clarify the path from an interest in science to a job in science for most graduates (high school, college, etc). Many people get college degrees in things that aren't at all useful for them because they couldn't figure out what was right for them. My friend got a degree in psychology which has been almost useless (save for the fact that it at least shows he did ok in a college program) and after being unemployed for a while is working as a bank teller. I do not believe this is his long term plan, but he has yet to figure out what he should do. I wish there was more advice available for how to avoid these types of problems.
The oh-so-predictable cycle of professors teaching kids, so that they too may one day be teachers of new kids. I generally see Philosophy as this type of route (Lawyers excluded). What do you do with a Philosophy major? Teach philosophy!
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The last advice should be to discover your own personal tips and philosophies on how to live your life because you don't have the same personality or interests as the OP.
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LOL you're sort of a misogynist piece of shit, huh? Protip: change the mindset in 4 and 5 and maybe you'll be less of an asshole.
User was warned for this post
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On March 21 2013 18:11 applepielon wrote:
LOL you're sort of a misogynist piece of shit, huh? Protip: change the mindset in 4 and 5 and maybe you'll be less of an asshole.
Change the mindset to what?
On March 21 2013 17:06 Kishin2 wrote:
The last advice should be to discover your own personal tips and philosophies on how to live your life because you don't have the same personality or interests as the OP.
Quite true. Care to share?
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I don't even go to lectures and I do just fine. Gym, party, and start studying a week before exam = gg
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On March 21 2013 07:48 Shady Sands wrote:
3. Get good at it - This relates back to #1. But instead of trying to seek 'hardcoreness' here, you're trying to seek expertise. You really won't figure out whether you like something or not until you hit that plateau of proficiency, so seek to get really good at whatever it is you are interested in. This is something I wish I'd done more of in college--I was satisfied at being mediocre in a bunch of things, and only now am I realizing that had I really drilled down and tried to become a master at a few things I could have become a much better person.
But, is it that surprising to you that you didn't master anything?
All your other points about life are about how you should look good to the outside and the outside only, your only advice in every part of your life is that you should try to be a fake to please everyone around you. Fake interest in other people that don't even interest you but could lead to rewards for yourself in the future, fake every single action around other human beings to a point where you should see yourself as an actor. The only reason for you to not be fake towards your future wife is that it is not possible to have your mask on 24/7, so it's necessary to not be fake. That's incredibly sad and empty.
With that mindset it is very easy to be mediocre at a lot of things instead of actually liking a particular thing enough to get really good at it and actually spend the necessary time doing it, even if it alienates the people you call "friends" or other people around you. Which is always a thing that can happen if people don't really like you and only like the fake of you that you showed to them.
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Emotional fulfillment is equated with love, and the love chapter only includes getting laid and seducing others without "losing track of your inner self"? The part titled "enlightenment" only includes doing drugs, developing wit and talking down on yourself? That's not what I expected from a featured blog. 1/5
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A most convoluted way of saying "YOLO".
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On March 21 2013 20:38 ZenithM wrote:
A most convoluted way of saying "YOLO".
Nailed it.
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On March 21 2013 10:13 Holdenintherye wrote:
11. Help people you know succeed
Yes, I've been preaching this for so long.
I like having rich friends.
I don't agree with most of what was written in the OP but, yeah, #11 is _very_ important advice. It's my only real regret from my 4 years.
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On March 21 2013 21:26 c0ldfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 10:13 Holdenintherye wrote:
11. Help people you know succeed
Yes, I've been preaching this for so long.
I like having rich friends. I don't agree with most of what was written in the OP but, yeah, #11 is _very_ important advice. It's my only real regret from my 4 years.
I kind of feel this way too, other than my circle of friends i didn't really keep in touch with/ help others succeed. I felt I was at the school for myself and only myself.
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I don't necessarily agree with number 7, especially if she is your first.
If you have never been with women, you are very susceptible to falling for your first, or the first girl that treats you well. You end up getting married right out of college because you think you have found the one.
Then 5 years later you realize you are a different person. Think of yourself 10 years ago. Are you the same? How much have you changed/learned?
Try to keep in mind that 10+ years out of college you again will be a completely different person.
I would say apply what shady said in number 2 to both classes and women. Date different people, figure out who you are and what you like in women.
You wouldn't major in the first class you take in college, so why marry the first girl that comes along and likes you.
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On March 21 2013 21:51 Smancer wrote:
I don't necessarily agree with number 7, especially if she is your first.
You wouldn't major in the first class you take in college, so why marry the first girl that comes along and likes you.
I agree, since most of the folks on this forum are probably nerdy types that didn't go to the highschool prom or ball. College is a fresh start to do things, but changing your personality and confidence isn't going to happen overnight. A change in environment and associated freedom certainly helps (ie - don't go to college < 5 hours from your mom). The first time you get a girl to touch your penis is great! Just don't make a baby with her.
I have 2 friends that married straight out of college. 1 lasted 6 years and divorced costing him ~450k in a lump sum alimony (Intel) and the other has joint custody of a kid that probably isn't even his! hehe
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One of the shittiest things I've read in a while.. a long while, horrible advice in so many areas. Do yourself and others a favor and don't have an opinion anymore
User was temp banned for this post.
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On March 21 2013 16:40 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 13:38 Lexpar wrote:On March 21 2013 13:08 ieatkids5 wrote:On March 21 2013 12:09 catplanetcatplanet wrote:On March 21 2013 10:59 Lexpar wrote:
8 2d ed. Try assorted chemical substances - College is the last safe time you'll have to get high. It takes around 90 days, at most, for most drug residues to disappear from your body. (90 days is for hair samples--it might be shorter for urine, saliva, or blood). A lot of decent jobs require a drug test for admission, and you don't want to have 90-day stretches of unemployment after college... but in college, you can plan out your 420 timetable so that by the time you need to pee into a cup you're completely clean. Winners don't do drugs (the new catplanetcatplanet amendment) ya that. i dont see whats wrong with trying weed or a cigarette. college really is the best time to try it. shadysands isnt advocating that you get hooked on drugs. having the experience of knowing what getting high is like, what smoking a cigarette is like, is valuable. you understand it more, and you can make an informed decision on whether you should do it or not. one time isn't going to harm you any more than many other things in life that people already do. just talking about stuff like weed. shit like heroin is a different story. never do that. How can you understand heroin and make an informed decision about whether you should do it or not without trying? #DevilsAdvocate #AnnoyingQuestions #FuckImSleepy How can you make an informed decision about suicide without trying? Geez. I don't care if you do drugs, but I sure as hell don't like it when you say things along the lines of "do drugs, it will be good for you".
Thanks.
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Wow some really awesome info here. Going be graduating (tho not standard uni) soon and entering the big bad world. Hoping to take a few months off just to relax and go exploring a bit ( the world and myself).
Done the writing bit (eSports) got criticised to hell on some stuff and on some got a ton of praise that was kind off awesome.
Will see if can act on some of that advice.
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for those of you who are intrigued by #4 and #5 I can recommend this book.
"The Art of Seduction" by Robert Greene
Book Link
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First-year student here. Not into drugs (because I would get kicked from res and it's expensive) but I'll try the sleeping around.
Requested amendment to 5: Safe sex?
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As a person who's experiencing college right now, this pretty much sums up what just about every college student wants out of their school, it's awesome.
IntoTheheart, drugs are not expensive lol. Go smoke a doobie with your pals and have a couple drinks. You're 19, act like a 19 year old, not some 90 yr old granny .
And a tip for you first year freshmen, walk off campus when you're doing your shit. Or at least get out of the dorms; way too many people get in trouble for being rowdy in the dorms and end up ruining their financial aid/housing situations.
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On March 22 2013 00:48 randommuch wrote:As a person who's experiencing college right now, this pretty much sums up what just about every college student wants out of their school, it's awesome. IntoTheheart, drugs are not expensive lol. Go smoke a doobie with your pals and have a couple drinks. You're 19, act like a 19 year old, not some 90 yr old granny . And a tip for you first year freshmen, walk off campus when you're doing your shit. Or at least get out of the dorms; way too many people get in trouble for being rowdy in the dorms and end up ruining their financial aid/housing situations.
Bro I'm also lazy. Don't know if I wanna waste all that energy with which I could be doing math and playing (feeding) DotA.
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On March 22 2013 00:48 randommuch wrote:IntoTheheart, drugs are not expensive lol. Go smoke a doobie with your pals and have a couple drinks. You're 19, act like a 19 year old, not some 90 yr old granny .
This comes off as really strange to me; very reminiscent of the sort of ads that tobacco companies would run, trying to appeal to both teenagers and older men who are beginning to feel old. You remember Joe Camel?
I dunno, the idea that doing drugs is "what young people do" just seems pretty foreign to me, especially since nowdays plenty of elderly people use drugs for pain management. It seems dishonest and just plain misguided to me to pressure someone to experiment with drugs because of their age; it's just a veiled form of "everyone's doing it so why can't you be cool".
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I was more getting at that he should look more into having fun and do new things and not let such things like money and RA's be such controlling factors in his life. Fuck he's 19 and in college, you're supposed to have fun in that time period. It would suck to not act your age at such an awesome time in life.
But no, your shpeal about peer pressure is cool too.
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On March 22 2013 01:36 randommuch wrote:
I was more getting at that he should look more into having fun and do new things and not let such things like money and RA's be such controlling factors in his life. Fuck he's 19 and in college, you're supposed to have fun in that time period. It would suck to not act your age at such an awesome time in life.
But no, your shpeal about peer pressure is cool too.
All I"m saying is that alcohol is easier to get a hold of than drugs. And more of my friends drink than get baked so it's more social in that respect for me.
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i think that dugs are something that can be lots of fun, just like sleeping around. But, that doesnt mean its for everyone.
If you are someone that likes those things, its always best to go about it in a smart, safe way. I.E. not smoking all the time and ruining your life because you dont do anything but smoke. In my opinion drugs should be something you enjoy in moderation with limited negative effects on your life. I would never do drugs like heroin, meth, or coke. Personally I limit myself to weed, psychedelics, mdma and alcohol. I included alcohol because in my opinion, it is the same as a drug in every single way, its just way more available and legal.
In terms of sleeping around, I find it pretty despicable when people sleep with someone else they have no feelings for and the other person believes they do. Sex can hurt someone. So basically, be careful. If you're not emotionally invested, make sure the other person isn't either. If you are, make sure the other person knows.
these are just like, my personal opinions on the topic.
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On March 21 2013 19:18 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 14:03 ieatkids5 wrote:On March 21 2013 13:38 Lexpar wrote:On March 21 2013 13:08 ieatkids5 wrote:On March 21 2013 12:09 catplanetcatplanet wrote:On March 21 2013 10:59 Lexpar wrote:
8 2d ed. Try assorted chemical substances - College is the last safe time you'll have to get high. It takes around 90 days, at most, for most drug residues to disappear from your body. (90 days is for hair samples--it might be shorter for urine, saliva, or blood). A lot of decent jobs require a drug test for admission, and you don't want to have 90-day stretches of unemployment after college... but in college, you can plan out your 420 timetable so that by the time you need to pee into a cup you're completely clean. Winners don't do drugs (the new catplanetcatplanet amendment) ya that. i dont see whats wrong with trying weed or a cigarette. college really is the best time to try it. shadysands isnt advocating that you get hooked on drugs. having the experience of knowing what getting high is like, what smoking a cigarette is like, is valuable. you understand it more, and you can make an informed decision on whether you should do it or not. one time isn't going to harm you any more than many other things in life that people already do. just talking about stuff like weed. shit like heroin is a different story. never do that. How can you understand heroin and make an informed decision about whether you should do it or not without trying? #DevilsAdvocate #AnnoyingQuestions #FuckImSleepy because from what you know and the countless stories of lives being ruined by heroin, the risk of trying it most likely outweighs the experience gained. weed, on the other hand, has a much much lower risk-to-reward ratio. Not doing any of it has a much lower risk-to-reward ratio.
no, there's not much risk in trying weed, but there is a reward. unless you dont value the experience of getting high once at all. if that's the case, then yeah, dont try it, but i think it's a valuable experience for anyone.
On March 21 2013 16:40 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 13:38 Lexpar wrote:On March 21 2013 13:08 ieatkids5 wrote:On March 21 2013 12:09 catplanetcatplanet wrote:On March 21 2013 10:59 Lexpar wrote:
8 2d ed. Try assorted chemical substances - College is the last safe time you'll have to get high. It takes around 90 days, at most, for most drug residues to disappear from your body. (90 days is for hair samples--it might be shorter for urine, saliva, or blood). A lot of decent jobs require a drug test for admission, and you don't want to have 90-day stretches of unemployment after college... but in college, you can plan out your 420 timetable so that by the time you need to pee into a cup you're completely clean. Winners don't do drugs (the new catplanetcatplanet amendment) ya that. i dont see whats wrong with trying weed or a cigarette. college really is the best time to try it. shadysands isnt advocating that you get hooked on drugs. having the experience of knowing what getting high is like, what smoking a cigarette is like, is valuable. you understand it more, and you can make an informed decision on whether you should do it or not. one time isn't going to harm you any more than many other things in life that people already do. just talking about stuff like weed. shit like heroin is a different story. never do that. How can you understand heroin and make an informed decision about whether you should do it or not without trying? #DevilsAdvocate #AnnoyingQuestions #FuckImSleepy How can you make an informed decision about suicide without trying? Geez. I don't care if you do drugs, but I sure as hell don't like it when you say things along the lines of "do drugs, it will be good for you".
sorry if i implied that you cant make an informed decision without trying it. it should have been "you can make a more informed decision if you have tried it"
and obviously, you decide whether to try it or not by weighing the risk to reward of trying it vs not trying it.
weed - risk is very little. reward - you get the experience of trying it and understand it more. i say go for it.
heroin - risk is super high, addiction, life ruined, etc. reward - you get the experience of trying it and understand it more. risk is too high, dont do it.
and of course, you can use the above logic on suicide.
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On March 22 2013 02:41 tome567 wrote:
i think that dugs are something that can be lots of fun, just like sleeping around. But, that doesnt mean its for everyone.
If you are someone that likes those things, its always best to go about it in a smart, safe way. I.E. not smoking all the time and ruining your life because you dont do anything but smoke. In my opinion drugs should be something you enjoy in moderation with limited negative effects on your life. I would never do drugs like heroin, meth, or coke. Personally I limit myself to weed, psychedelics, mdma and alcohol. I included alcohol because in my opinion, it is the same as a drug in every single way, its just way more available and legal.
This--know your limits, obviously. If you've got a personality that naturally can't handle addiction, don't do harder drugs. On the other hand, most drugs can get you pretty decent memories if you're careful about it. Acid, in particular, is something I'd recommend everyone do, since it opens your internal perspectives so much. (I've never done it but I've seen how much it turned some pretty neurotic people into people who were much more normal.)
In terms of sleeping around, I find it pretty despicable when people sleep with someone else they have no feelings for and the other person believes they do. Sex can hurt someone. So basically, be careful. If you're not emotionally invested, make sure the other person isn't either. If you are, make sure the other person knows.
these are just like, my personal opinions on the topic.
This too--be upfront with people in college about emotions or lack thereof. If things aren't working out, just tell her. If things are, tell her too. Don't hold back, and do this early. If nothing else, save her the trouble of getting invested into something you aren't or vice versa. If you're lucky, you might even stay friends.
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On March 22 2013 00:37 IntoTheheart wrote:
First-year student here. Not into drugs (because I would get kicked from res and it's expensive) but I'll try the sleeping around.
Requested amendment to 5: Safe sex?
Yes--thought the STD/preg comment implied that ha
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On March 21 2013 23:29 phANT1m wrote:
Wow some really awesome info here. Going be graduating (tho not standard uni) soon and entering the big bad world. Hoping to take a few months off just to relax and go exploring a bit ( the world and myself).
Done the writing bit (eSports) got criticised to hell on some stuff and on some got a ton of praise that was kind off awesome.
Will see if can act on some of that advice.
That's the spirit. In order to learn how to live for someone else (i.e. your future family), you've gotta learn how to live for yourself. Don't be the kind of parent who never did the latter and ends up projecting him or herself on their kids
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On March 21 2013 22:35 shivver wrote:
One of the shittiest things I've read in a while.. a long while, horrible advice in so many areas. Do yourself and others a favor and don't have an opinion anymore
Are you the same guy as applepielon?
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lol shady 4 posts in a row not warned for it , what a boss.
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rofl shady, as an asian-american male in college, I gotta agree with this
"Don't be the kind of parent who never did the latter and ends up projecting him or herself on their kids "
I've seen it too many times.
Great post, agree with most of it, though the tone of this piece could be a bit nicer for the kids actually going to college the next year.
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Pretty clearly just one guy's opinion, idk why people getting so angry over it.
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number 8 is pretty much against my belief. It separates a normal student from the outstanding one from my view (given that they are already bright to begin with ofc). The problem often come down to nature instinct and the background education as well as born personality that a person could resist the need of substance so it is situational a lot of time, different from person to person. That is why a good advice generally is to stay out of those substances to begin with.
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On March 22 2013 07:09 NB wrote:
number 8 is pretty much against my belief. It separates a normal student from the outstanding one from my view (given that they are already bright to begin with ofc). The problem often come down to nature instinct and the background education as well as born personality that a person could resist the need of substance so it is situational a lot of time, different from person to person. That is why a good advice generally is to stay out of those substances to begin with.
Fair enough, and I should add that I've pretty much stopped taking anything past graduation (>2 years ago). But it's still interesting to see exactly what warped sensations and thoughts your brain can come up with while baked. More of a learning thing than anything else--obv don't stuff you can't handle, etc.
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Dude writes like a thousand words and everybody focuses on drugs.
Students should not be drinking and smoking weed. They should be trying LSD and mushrooms. Take it from me, sex on mushrooms with someone great blows your mind.
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Sooo you're telling me that I should become... a coordinator
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Don't cheat on anything.
Like seriously, just don't. Don't cheat on homework (okay, well if its some incredibly braindead stuff maybe ok). Don't cheat on tests. Don't cheat on friends. Don't cheat on significant others. It's not worth the physical, academic, social, (insert descriptor here), repercussions. I don't know from personal experience, but yeah.
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The spark notes version of any college advice you'll run into: Do a variety of shit.
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You shouldn't be afraid to make mistakes in college. You have to learn how to be OK with yourself after you make them
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The more I read the things you post, the more certain I am that you need counseling. That's not intended to be a joke - you seriously have some majorly distorted views on a number of topics.
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On March 22 2013 10:02 ticklishmusic wrote:
Don't cheat on anything.
Like seriously, just don't. Don't cheat on homework (okay, well if its some incredibly braindead stuff maybe ok). Don't cheat on tests. Don't cheat on friends. Don't cheat on significant others. It's not worth the physical, academic, social, (insert descriptor here), repercussions. I don't know from personal experience, but yeah.
Most smart kids I know cheat, from middleschool through college and even into grad school.
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I cheated all the way to grad school. In fact I still have cheat notes on my ti-85. Grad school however is different. The classes there are so small and the thesis too specific to cheat IMHO.
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I wish I had this blog to read before I began college. Thanks TL. Cheers
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On March 22 2013 22:46 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2013 10:02 ticklishmusic wrote:
Don't cheat on anything.
Like seriously, just don't. Don't cheat on homework (okay, well if its some incredibly braindead stuff maybe ok). Don't cheat on tests. Don't cheat on friends. Don't cheat on significant others. It's not worth the physical, academic, social, (insert descriptor here), repercussions. I don't know from personal experience, but yeah. Most smart kids I know cheat, from middleschool through college and even into grad school.
most academically successful kids that you know cheat you mean. If they're actually "smart" meaning if they actually have the talent to outshine their peers at competitive institutes, they will likely whiz through whatever work is being given for average students.
You should definitely get stoned at college if you're curious about it! get laid get high get drunk-thats a good part of life. The "good" guys will tell you it's wrong but i have another word for the "good" guys- the herd.
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On March 22 2013 22:46 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2013 10:02 ticklishmusic wrote:
Don't cheat on anything.
Like seriously, just don't. Don't cheat on homework (okay, well if its some incredibly braindead stuff maybe ok). Don't cheat on tests. Don't cheat on friends. Don't cheat on significant others. It's not worth the physical, academic, social, (insert descriptor here), repercussions. I don't know from personal experience, but yeah. Most smart kids I know cheat, from middleschool through college and even into grad school.
Then they must be not very smart at all. School exams are just to measure how much and how well you have learned in a period of time (semester). As long as you don't do something stupid like fail the paper, you should still be able to get yourself a job.
And one more thing about real smart kids - they know that working a job will not get make you live a fulfilling and wealthy life.
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On March 22 2013 22:46 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2013 10:02 ticklishmusic wrote:
Don't cheat on anything.
Like seriously, just don't. Don't cheat on homework (okay, well if its some incredibly braindead stuff maybe ok). Don't cheat on tests. Don't cheat on friends. Don't cheat on significant others. It's not worth the physical, academic, social, (insert descriptor here), repercussions. I don't know from personal experience, but yeah. Most smart kids I know cheat, from middleschool through college and even into grad school.
Lol, I know a bunch of people I would call smart (they all finished grad school already and are going on with their own PhDs or R&D jobs or whatever) and I've never seen anyone cheat... mostly because if you're smart enough, you don't need it.
Edit: But maybe it's different in the US I don't know, maybe even the really gifted people cheat too :D
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On March 22 2013 07:09 NB wrote:
number 8 is pretty much against my belief. It separates a normal student from the outstanding one from my view (given that they are already bright to begin with ofc). The problem often come down to nature instinct and the background education as well as born personality that a person could resist the need of substance so it is situational a lot of time, different from person to person. That is why a good advice generally is to stay out of those substances to begin with.
Why do you think this is? I don't do drugs and drink, but this does not mean I won't ever. We life once, and as Aristotle said: "No great genius has ever existed without some touch of madness." Sometimes; you need to let go.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On March 21 2013 08:23 bo1b wrote:I can't tell if I love this advice or hate it. I agree with pretty much everything but sections 4-6 just come off so impersonal and self centred that it creates such a cognitive dissonance in me :\ + Show Spoiler +
I believe the general idea is to get it out the way now so you don't want to deal with it in later life.
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On March 23 2013 00:09 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2013 22:46 docvoc wrote:On March 22 2013 10:02 ticklishmusic wrote:
Don't cheat on anything.
Like seriously, just don't. Don't cheat on homework (okay, well if its some incredibly braindead stuff maybe ok). Don't cheat on tests. Don't cheat on friends. Don't cheat on significant others. It's not worth the physical, academic, social, (insert descriptor here), repercussions. I don't know from personal experience, but yeah. Most smart kids I know cheat, from middleschool through college and even into grad school. Lol, I know a bunch of people I would call smart (they all finished grad school already and are going on with their own PhDs or R&D jobs or whatever) and I've never seen anyone cheat... mostly because if you're smart enough, you don't need it. Edit: But maybe it's different in the US I don't know, maybe even the really gifted people cheat too :D
Most people who are gifted are also gifted at cheating the system in my experience. People here who say they know smart people who don't cheat are either not in the know, or the kids are so smart they don't have to cheat (which is a possibility, but I doubt it is all of them). Also saying they aren't smart because they cheat is incredibly naive. Knowing how to cheat the system successfully and in a repeatable manner is one of the things school, especially the IB, has taught me to be able to do. I don't cheat, but I've learned a great deal from the smart kids I see cheating, though I don't consider myself smart .
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On March 23 2013 01:15 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2013 00:09 ZenithM wrote:On March 22 2013 22:46 docvoc wrote:On March 22 2013 10:02 ticklishmusic wrote:
Don't cheat on anything.
Like seriously, just don't. Don't cheat on homework (okay, well if its some incredibly braindead stuff maybe ok). Don't cheat on tests. Don't cheat on friends. Don't cheat on significant others. It's not worth the physical, academic, social, (insert descriptor here), repercussions. I don't know from personal experience, but yeah. Most smart kids I know cheat, from middleschool through college and even into grad school. Lol, I know a bunch of people I would call smart (they all finished grad school already and are going on with their own PhDs or R&D jobs or whatever) and I've never seen anyone cheat... mostly because if you're smart enough, you don't need it. Edit: But maybe it's different in the US I don't know, maybe even the really gifted people cheat too :D Most people who are gifted are also gifted at cheating the system in my experience. People here who say they know smart people who don't cheat are either not in the know, or the kids are so smart they don't have to cheat (which is a possibility, but I doubt it is all of them). Also saying they aren't smart because they cheat is incredibly naive. Knowing how to cheat the system successfully and in a repeatable manner is one of the things school, especially the IB, has taught me to be able to do. I don't cheat, but I've learned a great deal from the smart kids I see cheating, though I don't consider myself smart .
People actually cheat to get through IB? That's amusing.
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On March 23 2013 01:15 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2013 00:09 ZenithM wrote:On March 22 2013 22:46 docvoc wrote:On March 22 2013 10:02 ticklishmusic wrote:
Don't cheat on anything.
Like seriously, just don't. Don't cheat on homework (okay, well if its some incredibly braindead stuff maybe ok). Don't cheat on tests. Don't cheat on friends. Don't cheat on significant others. It's not worth the physical, academic, social, (insert descriptor here), repercussions. I don't know from personal experience, but yeah. Most smart kids I know cheat, from middleschool through college and even into grad school. Lol, I know a bunch of people I would call smart (they all finished grad school already and are going on with their own PhDs or R&D jobs or whatever) and I've never seen anyone cheat... mostly because if you're smart enough, you don't need it. Edit: But maybe it's different in the US I don't know, maybe even the really gifted people cheat too :D Most people who are gifted are also gifted at cheating the system in my experience. People here who say they know smart people who don't cheat are either not in the know, or the kids are so smart they don't have to cheat (which is a possibility, but I doubt it is all of them). Also saying they aren't smart because they cheat is incredibly naive. Knowing how to cheat the system successfully and in a repeatable manner is one of the things school, especially the IB, has taught me to be able to do. I don't cheat, but I've learned a great deal from the smart kids I see cheating, though I don't consider myself smart .
Define cheating?
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I think you guys are thinking of cheating as in the classical sense. I'm in a top engineering university in Canada, and nobody will look at another person's paper, try to bring a piece of paper into the exam etc. Like realize what's on the line for cheating, smart people don't think it's worth the 0.1% chance of getting caught to get a few percent higher mark.
In my university it is hard to abuse the system, they pretty much put you in a shitty situation where you're doomed to fail, unless you do all assignments with peers, you get textbooks out of the designed course ones, you go to the optional tutorials, you review previous courses etc. By putting in that effort you do better than the rest, there's nothing to do to get ahead even more.
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On March 23 2013 01:30 FiWiFaKi wrote:
I think you guys are thinking of cheating as in the classical sense. I'm in a top engineering university in Canada, and nobody will look at another person's paper, try to bring a piece of paper into the exam etc. Like realize what's on the line for cheating, smart people don't think it's worth the 0.1% chance of getting caught to get a few percent higher mark.
In my university it is hard to abuse the system, they pretty much put you in a shitty situation where you're doomed to fail, unless you do all assignments with peers, you get textbooks out of the designed course ones, you go to the optional tutorials, you review previous courses etc. By putting in that effort you do better than the rest, there's nothing to do to get ahead even more.
I would also think it's completely useless. You could bring you book and still fail for an engineering course.
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United States24612 Posts
On March 23 2013 02:21 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2013 01:30 FiWiFaKi wrote:
I think you guys are thinking of cheating as in the classical sense. I'm in a top engineering university in Canada, and nobody will look at another person's paper, try to bring a piece of paper into the exam etc. Like realize what's on the line for cheating, smart people don't think it's worth the 0.1% chance of getting caught to get a few percent higher mark.
In my university it is hard to abuse the system, they pretty much put you in a shitty situation where you're doomed to fail, unless you do all assignments with peers, you get textbooks out of the designed course ones, you go to the optional tutorials, you review previous courses etc. By putting in that effort you do better than the rest, there's nothing to do to get ahead even more. I would also think it's completely useless. You could bring you book and still fail for an engineering course.
Yea I think this is also true more generally: if you are able to cheat by bringing a bit of paper secretly into class then the test can't be that difficult...
The last exam I took was open text/notes/everything, and it didn't help in the least lol.
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On March 23 2013 02:24 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2013 02:21 Recognizable wrote:On March 23 2013 01:30 FiWiFaKi wrote:
I think you guys are thinking of cheating as in the classical sense. I'm in a top engineering university in Canada, and nobody will look at another person's paper, try to bring a piece of paper into the exam etc. Like realize what's on the line for cheating, smart people don't think it's worth the 0.1% chance of getting caught to get a few percent higher mark.
In my university it is hard to abuse the system, they pretty much put you in a shitty situation where you're doomed to fail, unless you do all assignments with peers, you get textbooks out of the designed course ones, you go to the optional tutorials, you review previous courses etc. By putting in that effort you do better than the rest, there's nothing to do to get ahead even more. I would also think it's completely useless. You could bring you book and still fail for an engineering course. Yea I think this is also true more generally: if you are able to cheat by bringing a bit of paper secretly into class then the test can't be that difficult... The last exam I took was open text/notes/everything, and it didn't help in the least lol.
Was it 'open internet' lol
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On March 23 2013 01:30 FiWiFaKi wrote:
I think you guys are thinking of cheating as in the classical sense. I'm in a top engineering university in Canada, and nobody will look at another person's paper, try to bring a piece of paper into the exam etc. Like realize what's on the line for cheating, smart people don't think it's worth the 0.1% chance of getting caught to get a few percent higher mark.
In my university it is hard to abuse the system, they pretty much put you in a shitty situation where you're doomed to fail, unless you do all assignments with peers, you get textbooks out of the designed course ones, you go to the optional tutorials, you review previous courses etc. By putting in that effort you do better than the rest, there's nothing to do to get ahead even more.
This statement is super weird. What school do you attend and in which engineering program? I know for a FACT that most people cheat or use their friends for "help". You are correct saying that the top people like 2% don't cheat. Everyone else studies together and does homework together and shows people how to do problems. They also show them the answers. This happens all the time. That is the definition of cheating. I am about to graduate from a top university in ChemE.
Also I agree there might be some bad advice from the OP. No one is perfect though. I actually think it makes people that read it think if these things are for them. Most people know already if they are someone who will try drugs or not. That is a personal choice people will make later one. I think there is no problem in trying something once or twice. Whatever you decide to do though just don't abuse it.
I agree with micronesia though on the career advice. I think schools SUCK at giving advice. Everyone told me I would love chemical engineering and they all had no fucking clue what it really was. I only did some minor research about it and thought it really was just chemistry and math. Its really process engineering with lots of physics. They really need better programs to try and interest and direct students and give them inside looks at specific professions. I also think that they are scared to do this for some jobs because at the core of some of these jobs your just doing excel work, or just doing X or Y.
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1-3 are solid. College is supposed to be a time of intense study, yet so many students use class as a time of intense facebooking. Everyone has a different path with some taking longer to get from A to B, but mindful pursuit is the key to finding yourself.
4: Sleep with everything that walks
5: Manipulate everything that walks into sleeping with you
6: Don't forget who you are since you need to pretend for the manipulation to work
.....
Not so much.
If you want to sleep around in college, then feel free. If you want to save yourself for that special someone or for marriage, then do that, too. You're right that college, especially the first two years, is a place where many look for no-strings sex. You are not required to participate, just like you aren't required to party and get drunk. And really, you're not missing out if you don't. If you're ok knowing "I didn't sleep around in college" then it's fine.
The same goes for 8.
Here's my two cents on building a social life. I was a freshman RA for three years, so it is geared toward underclassmen.
1) Visit a lot of rooms. This means that you need to get out of YOUR room to start gaining new experiences. These "rooms" can be clubs, social groups, bars, etc. The idea is that you meet more people and have more experiences the more "rooms" you enter.
2) Find a place where you fit in. If you hung out with a bunch of fraternity brothers and liked it, then rush the fraternity. If you went to the pentecostal campus ministry and liked it, then keep coming back. If you like sitting in the basement playing D&D with your buddies, then find a campaign on campus and join. Everyone is different, so everyone has a specific niche.
A LOT of freshman enter with the notion that they need to get drunk Thursday through Saturday, sleep around, and follow popular trends. In reality, you need to find where you're comfortable and where you can grow. Colleges are large and diverse, so these places DO exist (you just need to enter a bunch of "rooms" to find them). It can be in the middle of a frat house, or it can be in a club that plays schoolyard games once a week.
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United States24612 Posts
On March 23 2013 02:35 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2013 02:24 micronesia wrote:On March 23 2013 02:21 Recognizable wrote:On March 23 2013 01:30 FiWiFaKi wrote:
I think you guys are thinking of cheating as in the classical sense. I'm in a top engineering university in Canada, and nobody will look at another person's paper, try to bring a piece of paper into the exam etc. Like realize what's on the line for cheating, smart people don't think it's worth the 0.1% chance of getting caught to get a few percent higher mark.
In my university it is hard to abuse the system, they pretty much put you in a shitty situation where you're doomed to fail, unless you do all assignments with peers, you get textbooks out of the designed course ones, you go to the optional tutorials, you review previous courses etc. By putting in that effort you do better than the rest, there's nothing to do to get ahead even more. I would also think it's completely useless. You could bring you book and still fail for an engineering course. Yea I think this is also true more generally: if you are able to cheat by bringing a bit of paper secretly into class then the test can't be that difficult... The last exam I took was open text/notes/everything, and it didn't help in the least lol. Was it 'open internet' lol
Would not have helped due to the time limitations. If I had 24 hours to take it, then having internet would have helped.
On March 23 2013 02:45 lightrise wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2013 01:30 FiWiFaKi wrote:
I think you guys are thinking of cheating as in the classical sense. I'm in a top engineering university in Canada, and nobody will look at another person's paper, try to bring a piece of paper into the exam etc. Like realize what's on the line for cheating, smart people don't think it's worth the 0.1% chance of getting caught to get a few percent higher mark.
In my university it is hard to abuse the system, they pretty much put you in a shitty situation where you're doomed to fail, unless you do all assignments with peers, you get textbooks out of the designed course ones, you go to the optional tutorials, you review previous courses etc. By putting in that effort you do better than the rest, there's nothing to do to get ahead even more. This statement is super weird. What school do you attend and in which engineering program? I know for a FACT that most people cheat or use their friends for "help". You are correct saying that the top people like 2% don't cheat. Everyone else studies together This isn't cheating!
and does homework together This isn't cheating, provided it is collaboration and not just copying (some professors might not want you to work together but from what I've seen that's rare with regard to homeworks).
They also show them the answers. Yeah just giving away answers I'll agree is no good.
That is the definition of cheating. I don't think you really gave many examples of cheating. Collaboration is good. Cheating would be copying which I agreed with, or using a resource during an exam that you aren't allowed to use. Alternately, it could be acquiring information about a test ahead of time that shouldn't be available to you.
I'm not saying cheating doesn't happen... just that you have a strangely inclusive definition.
I agree with micronesia though on the career advice. I think schools SUCK at giving advice. Everyone told me I would love chemical engineering and they all had no fucking clue what it really was. I only did some minor research about it and thought it really was just chemistry and math. Its really process engineering with lots of physics. They really need better programs to try and interest and direct students and give them inside looks at specific professions. I also think that they are scared to do this for some jobs because at the core of some of these jobs your just doing excel work, or just doing X or Y. Yea, definitely.
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On March 23 2013 02:35 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2013 02:24 micronesia wrote:On March 23 2013 02:21 Recognizable wrote:On March 23 2013 01:30 FiWiFaKi wrote:
I think you guys are thinking of cheating as in the classical sense. I'm in a top engineering university in Canada, and nobody will look at another person's paper, try to bring a piece of paper into the exam etc. Like realize what's on the line for cheating, smart people don't think it's worth the 0.1% chance of getting caught to get a few percent higher mark.
In my university it is hard to abuse the system, they pretty much put you in a shitty situation where you're doomed to fail, unless you do all assignments with peers, you get textbooks out of the designed course ones, you go to the optional tutorials, you review previous courses etc. By putting in that effort you do better than the rest, there's nothing to do to get ahead even more. I would also think it's completely useless. You could bring you book and still fail for an engineering course. Yea I think this is also true more generally: if you are able to cheat by bringing a bit of paper secretly into class then the test can't be that difficult... The last exam I took was open text/notes/everything, and it didn't help in the least lol. Was it 'open internet' lol
Well, for most of my theoretical computer science exams, we had access to all the lecture notes and the books we wanted to bring. For some we even had Internet allowed, but it wouldn't have helped at all, barring finding the answer sheet on the professor's webpage or something :D
When the prof comes up with some fucking esoteric variant of concurrent lambda calculus and ask you to prove normalization properties on it, no amount of cheating will help you, because this shit doesn't even exist in the real world :D. I think some people here actually don't realize that tests can be completely about understanding and reflection and not the slightest about knowledge. Cheat sheets are useless at that point.
What you can do is copy the answers on some guy who's smarter than you, but that's about it, and it's hard to do it discreetly.
And what I'm saying is that you don't need to cheat if you're smart enough. There are people who cheat and are also smart, I never pretended the contrary. But don't assume that every guy who is successful academically cheats. Nah, some people are just really smart :D
Edit: Maybe there is some misunderstanding on my part. In France most important tests are still time limited exams in a room with someone to look over you and spaced enough tables. We don't really do graded "home assignments", at least they have a very low coefficient on the final mark. I would think it's much easier to "plagiarize" essays or answers to a home assignment.
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On March 23 2013 03:06 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2013 02:35 Shady Sands wrote:On March 23 2013 02:24 micronesia wrote:On March 23 2013 02:21 Recognizable wrote:On March 23 2013 01:30 FiWiFaKi wrote:
I think you guys are thinking of cheating as in the classical sense. I'm in a top engineering university in Canada, and nobody will look at another person's paper, try to bring a piece of paper into the exam etc. Like realize what's on the line for cheating, smart people don't think it's worth the 0.1% chance of getting caught to get a few percent higher mark.
In my university it is hard to abuse the system, they pretty much put you in a shitty situation where you're doomed to fail, unless you do all assignments with peers, you get textbooks out of the designed course ones, you go to the optional tutorials, you review previous courses etc. By putting in that effort you do better than the rest, there's nothing to do to get ahead even more. I would also think it's completely useless. You could bring you book and still fail for an engineering course. Yea I think this is also true more generally: if you are able to cheat by bringing a bit of paper secretly into class then the test can't be that difficult... The last exam I took was open text/notes/everything, and it didn't help in the least lol. Was it 'open internet' lol Well, for most of my theoretical computer science exams, we had access to all the lecture notes and the books we wanted to bring. For some we even had Internet allowed, but it wouldn't have helped at all, barring finding the answer sheet on the professor's webpage or something :D When the prof comes up with some fucking esoteric variant of concurrent lambda calculus and ask you to prove normalization properties on it, no amount of cheating will help you, because this shit doesn't even exist in the real world :D. I think some people here actually don't realize that tests can be completely about understanding and reflection and not the slightest about knowledge. Cheat sheets are useless at that point. What you can do is copy the answers on some guy who's smarter than you, but that's about it, and it's hard to do it discreetly. And what I'm saying is that you don't need to cheat if you're smart enough. There are people who cheat and are also smart, I never pretended the contrary. But don't assume that every guy who is successful academically cheats. Nah, some people are just really smart :D Edit: Maybe there is some misunderstanding on my part. In France most important tests are still time limited exams in a room with someone to look over you and spaced enough tables. We don't really do graded "home assignments", at least they have a very low coefficient on the final mark. I would think it's much easier to "plagiarize" essays or answers to a home assignment.
I guess that's more of a subject thing. I took econ and stats, and it was usually pretty easy to find all the variations of the prior year's test problems on the internet, which usually gave us a ridiculous advantage when it came to test day.
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Micro:
I have really learned what is acceptable and what isn't for school. I just think that all this "collaboration" is bullshit. Lots of times I refuse to do homework with my buddies or my group because I never really learn the material that way. I will sometimes go down to my building and work on the homework and if I get stuck I ask for help understanding something not just getting the answer. What happens for the most part though is for groups bigger then 2/3 there are always people who don't understand the material. People just give out the equations and answers. That is cheating no matter how you look at it. I also have the answers for almost all of the homework problems that are from the book. Is this cheating? Most would assume yes. I usually use it as a source to see if I am on doing shit right because homework in my major can be super hard. If you copy the answer key obviously your an idiot because the teachers have the same answers. The goal of homework is to learn the material not to get the right answer.
I think people would be naive to think cheating isn't commonplace. It just is. Maybe some people are morally superior but in the end it does occur.
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United States24612 Posts
On March 23 2013 04:02 lightrise wrote:
I just think that all this "collaboration" is bullshit.
I actually agree with a lot of what you say, but I think you are just jaded when it comes to this. Just because there is collaboration doesn't mean that learning is hampered. I agree about large groups, though. I feel collaboration on homework for example is best when there are no more than 2-3 students, and the students are not collaborating for the purpose of not having to learn the material themselves (the ultimate being when high school students say "you do 1-5, I'll do 6-10 then we'll copy"). However, when students abuse homework collaboration they just fail the test anyway in many courses so it really doesn't matter what they choose to do.
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On projects and stuff I'll always get some input from friends and stuff, but ultimately everything I write will be my own work and I'll make sure I understand it. On the other hand, if there's some really annoying organic synthesis that has to be done in chemdraw, I'll send it to a friend. I know he/she knows how to do it, but inputting it into a computer program is just like 20 minutes of tedious work, so I'll save them the time.
In general though, cheating would be pretty hard for me. The number of assignments/problem sets in my classes where everyone would get the same answers is pretty small, and its only worth like 10% of my grade in any of the classes.
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And in the end 98% of the stuff you study and test on you won't use in you job in industry. An if you end up in management it will be some excel/PowerPoint/gantt that someone in highschool and/or a monkey could be trained to do.
So cheat in school and have some underling do all the heavy lifting at work. Just know who to massage and you'll be all set.
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Finding something by yourself is not the same as understanding it though. When I work in groups and someone comes up with something, of course I understand it, but there is always this doubt in my mind, over whether or not I could have thought of it myself alone, no matter its difficulty. And now that I know and understand it, I can't go back in time to check if I would have figured that out, and it's not really a pleasing feeling :D
Does anybody else feel that way? Or course if you're confident and your self-assessment of your skills is precise enough you can have a rough idea of what you can and what you can't figure out alone, but I still don't really like it when I'm feeded logical reasoning and thought out conclusions
Well, it's probably way off topic already. Just to explain why for me cheating is kind of inherently impossible.
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On March 23 2013 04:02 lightrise wrote:
Micro:
I have really learned what is acceptable and what isn't for school. I just think that all this "collaboration" is bullshit. Lots of times I refuse to do homework with my buddies or my group because I never really learn the material that way. I will sometimes go down to my building and work on the homework and if I get stuck I ask for help understanding something not just getting the answer. What happens for the most part though is for groups bigger then 2/3 there are always people who don't understand the material. People just give out the equations and answers. That is cheating no matter how you look at it. I also have the answers for almost all of the homework problems that are from the book. Is this cheating? Most would assume yes. I usually use it as a source to see if I am on doing shit right because homework in my major can be super hard. If you copy the answer key obviously your an idiot because the teachers have the same answers. The goal of homework is to learn the material not to get the right answer.
I think people would be naive to think cheating isn't commonplace. It just is. Maybe some people are morally superior but in the end it does occur.
I disagree. This is not cheating. This is people being dumb. Homework isn't graded isn't it? People can copy answers all they want. They will fail the test anyway. If homework is graded. Well... You are right. But homework being graded? That's on a whole new level of bullshit.
Anyway. I had an exam today for Biology and I knew about half the questions already. This lazy teacher of mine made it by using the previous exams which were available on the internet. Which I had practiced. Oh well.
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On March 23 2013 05:58 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2013 04:02 lightrise wrote:
Micro:
I have really learned what is acceptable and what isn't for school. I just think that all this "collaboration" is bullshit. Lots of times I refuse to do homework with my buddies or my group because I never really learn the material that way. I will sometimes go down to my building and work on the homework and if I get stuck I ask for help understanding something not just getting the answer. What happens for the most part though is for groups bigger then 2/3 there are always people who don't understand the material. People just give out the equations and answers. That is cheating no matter how you look at it. I also have the answers for almost all of the homework problems that are from the book. Is this cheating? Most would assume yes. I usually use it as a source to see if I am on doing shit right because homework in my major can be super hard. If you copy the answer key obviously your an idiot because the teachers have the same answers. The goal of homework is to learn the material not to get the right answer.
I think people would be naive to think cheating isn't commonplace. It just is. Maybe some people are morally superior but in the end it does occur. I disagree. This is not cheating. This is people being dumb. Homework isn't graded isn't it? People can copy answers all they want. They will fail the test anyway. If homework is graded. Well... You are right. But homework being graded? That's on a whole new level of bullshit. Anyway. I had an exam today for Biology and I knew about half the questions already. This lazy teacher of mine made it by using the previous exams which were available on the internet. Which I had practiced. Oh well.
I think homework being graded is very common in the US. It was even the context of the Harvard scandal from not too long ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Harvard_cheating_scandal.
But yeah it doesn't make too much sense to me either :D
Edit: changed "reason" to "context" :D
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On March 23 2013 06:42 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2013 05:58 Recognizable wrote:On March 23 2013 04:02 lightrise wrote:
Micro:
I have really learned what is acceptable and what isn't for school. I just think that all this "collaboration" is bullshit. Lots of times I refuse to do homework with my buddies or my group because I never really learn the material that way. I will sometimes go down to my building and work on the homework and if I get stuck I ask for help understanding something not just getting the answer. What happens for the most part though is for groups bigger then 2/3 there are always people who don't understand the material. People just give out the equations and answers. That is cheating no matter how you look at it. I also have the answers for almost all of the homework problems that are from the book. Is this cheating? Most would assume yes. I usually use it as a source to see if I am on doing shit right because homework in my major can be super hard. If you copy the answer key obviously your an idiot because the teachers have the same answers. The goal of homework is to learn the material not to get the right answer.
I think people would be naive to think cheating isn't commonplace. It just is. Maybe some people are morally superior but in the end it does occur. I disagree. This is not cheating. This is people being dumb. Homework isn't graded isn't it? People can copy answers all they want. They will fail the test anyway. If homework is graded. Well... You are right. But homework being graded? That's on a whole new level of bullshit. Anyway. I had an exam today for Biology and I knew about half the questions already. This lazy teacher of mine made it by using the previous exams which were available on the internet. Which I had practiced. Oh well. I think homework being graded is very common in the US. It was even the context of the Harvard scandal from not too long ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Harvard_cheating_scandal. But yeah it doesn't make too much sense to me either :D Edit: changed "reason" to "context" :D
What's this? Kindergarten? Take home exams.
wat.
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On March 23 2013 01:15 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2013 00:09 ZenithM wrote:On March 22 2013 22:46 docvoc wrote:On March 22 2013 10:02 ticklishmusic wrote:
Don't cheat on anything.
Like seriously, just don't. Don't cheat on homework (okay, well if its some incredibly braindead stuff maybe ok). Don't cheat on tests. Don't cheat on friends. Don't cheat on significant others. It's not worth the physical, academic, social, (insert descriptor here), repercussions. I don't know from personal experience, but yeah. Most smart kids I know cheat, from middleschool through college and even into grad school. Lol, I know a bunch of people I would call smart (they all finished grad school already and are going on with their own PhDs or R&D jobs or whatever) and I've never seen anyone cheat... mostly because if you're smart enough, you don't need it. Edit: But maybe it's different in the US I don't know, maybe even the really gifted people cheat too :D Most people who are gifted are also gifted at cheating the system in my experience. People here who say they know smart people who don't cheat are either not in the know, or the kids are so smart they don't have to cheat (which is a possibility, but I doubt it is all of them). Also saying they aren't smart because they cheat is incredibly naive. Knowing how to cheat the system successfully and in a repeatable manner is one of the things school, especially the IB, has taught me to be able to do. I don't cheat, but I've learned a great deal from the smart kids I see cheating, though I don't consider myself smart .
You wrote a blog about how you have "senioritis" aka you lack motivation. you see the system is stupid so you can't be fucked to work for it. I think that the problem is that you think theres some group of elites coasting and that you're not part of it, which makes it feel like things are beyond your control. It's not true though. you have control to work hard and not cheat. Sure, some people may have a less beautiful and more efficient approach than you but that is no excuse..
Besides.. all this talk of "smart"... i think "smart" is overrated. Just look at Friedrich Nietzsche, he was too much of a genius for his own good and where did it get him? 6 great book that he couldn't even reap teh benefits of because he went crazy before the rest of the world knew what the fuck he was even talking about.
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Russian Federation3631 Posts
On March 23 2013 06:42 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2013 05:58 Recognizable wrote:On March 23 2013 04:02 lightrise wrote:
Micro:
I have really learned what is acceptable and what isn't for school. I just think that all this "collaboration" is bullshit. Lots of times I refuse to do homework with my buddies or my group because I never really learn the material that way. I will sometimes go down to my building and work on the homework and if I get stuck I ask for help understanding something not just getting the answer. What happens for the most part though is for groups bigger then 2/3 there are always people who don't understand the material. People just give out the equations and answers. That is cheating no matter how you look at it. I also have the answers for almost all of the homework problems that are from the book. Is this cheating? Most would assume yes. I usually use it as a source to see if I am on doing shit right because homework in my major can be super hard. If you copy the answer key obviously your an idiot because the teachers have the same answers. The goal of homework is to learn the material not to get the right answer.
I think people would be naive to think cheating isn't commonplace. It just is. Maybe some people are morally superior but in the end it does occur. I disagree. This is not cheating. This is people being dumb. Homework isn't graded isn't it? People can copy answers all they want. They will fail the test anyway. If homework is graded. Well... You are right. But homework being graded? That's on a whole new level of bullshit. Anyway. I had an exam today for Biology and I knew about half the questions already. This lazy teacher of mine made it by using the previous exams which were available on the internet. Which I had practiced. Oh well. I think homework being graded is very common in the US. It was even the context of the Harvard scandal from not too long ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Harvard_cheating_scandal. But yeah it doesn't make too much sense to me either :D Edit: changed "reason" to "context" :D
for a class named "Introduction to Congress," cheating should be mandatory.
What's this? Kindergarten? Take home exams.
I don't think take-home exams are unjustified if the exam material is sufficiently challenging.
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i spent the last 6 hours studying orgo and now i have a headache, i swear my vision is blurrier than it was several hours ago, and ive spent like 10 bucks on coffee (thats at 99 cents a cup)
think of it just like working out. you wont build muscle or get more fit by faking. sure there's some things that make it easier, but ultimately you need to put in the effort.
on another note, harvard is hard to get in ez to get out. inflation on grades there makes the inflation on the iranian rial look tame. i personally think its hilarious that students started QQing so much cuz a class that was supposed to be easy actually got hard. (btw, that is some serious fail cheating)
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Russian Federation3631 Posts
On March 23 2013 08:12 ticklishmusic wrote:
i spent the last 6 hours studying orgo and now i have a headache, i swear my vision is blurrier than it was several hours ago, and ive spent like 10 bucks on coffee (thats at 99 cents a cup)
think of it just like working out. you wont build muscle or get more fit by faking. sure there's some things that make it easier, but ultimately you need to put in the effort.
on another note, harvard is hard to get in ez to get out. inflation on grades there makes the inflation on the iranian rial look tame. i personally think its hilarious that students started QQing so much cuz a class that was supposed to be easy actually got hard. (btw, that is some serious fail cheating)
if you are paying that much for a diploma delivery service, you better get what you paid for, no?
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Everything was fine until the drugs part. What the fuck.
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On March 23 2013 08:15 419 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2013 08:12 ticklishmusic wrote:
i spent the last 6 hours studying orgo and now i have a headache, i swear my vision is blurrier than it was several hours ago, and ive spent like 10 bucks on coffee (thats at 99 cents a cup)
think of it just like working out. you wont build muscle or get more fit by faking. sure there's some things that make it easier, but ultimately you need to put in the effort.
on another note, harvard is hard to get in ez to get out. inflation on grades there makes the inflation on the iranian rial look tame. i personally think its hilarious that students started QQing so much cuz a class that was supposed to be easy actually got hard. (btw, that is some serious fail cheating) if you are paying that much for a diploma delivery service, you better get what you paid for, no?
lol, I'd much rather pay all that tuition for a school that actually taught me things, but maybe I'm just naive
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I'll probably never have the chance to sit through all my years of college not working, because of the path I've chosen. It makes stuff like this funny for me, especially when I can sit and see the viewpoints of everyone who has had their college paid for by family, which is definitely the way to go for accelerating into earning money early on.
This is still mostly decent advice. Do the dumb things young so you don't fuck up later thinking they're wise. Also, everybody is different. Some people's childhoods shape them into very, very different people.
I think your post has too much emphasis on the kind of shit I'd expect from people like the characters in Enter The Void, but that also lines up more with your character, from what I've read. You (younger) wanted to fuck every prom queen and do every crazy thing you could to break out of the mould that was dropped on you from a young age. Obviously, I don't know you personally, but that's the sense I get from your writings.
Still a good post.
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On March 23 2013 10:52 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2013 08:15 419 wrote:On March 23 2013 08:12 ticklishmusic wrote:
i spent the last 6 hours studying orgo and now i have a headache, i swear my vision is blurrier than it was several hours ago, and ive spent like 10 bucks on coffee (thats at 99 cents a cup)
think of it just like working out. you wont build muscle or get more fit by faking. sure there's some things that make it easier, but ultimately you need to put in the effort.
on another note, harvard is hard to get in ez to get out. inflation on grades there makes the inflation on the iranian rial look tame. i personally think its hilarious that students started QQing so much cuz a class that was supposed to be easy actually got hard. (btw, that is some serious fail cheating) if you are paying that much for a diploma delivery service, you better get what you paid for, no? lol, I'd much rather pay all that tuition for a school that actually taught me things, but maybe I'm just naive
For the education I've managed to buy with my own cash out of pocket, most of my learning is done outside of school. Classes just give me an excuse to focus my learning and stay on task. The feeling I get living in Philadelphia as someone without a college degree or support, working to support those I care for, is that life here revolves around the "middle class start" with an education dropping you into a high paying job, or no education locking you into minimum wage or at most $12/hr for eternity. And it's about the paper for most jobs, not the education itself.
But, here's the funny thing. As a result of being in this position, I get to truly go all the way down this path in life. No feeling is better than living your life without a safety net, knowing that there is truly no danger so long as you play it smart, and eventually succeeding.
I'm ridiculously tired and I just started feeling like I'm floating to the ceiling after drinking a pot of white tea, so if anything is incoherent, bash me bro.
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On March 21 2013 14:33 419 wrote:
arguably, there are better ways to spend $200k++ (compound interest!) than on a 4-5 year exercise of self-indulgence.
Not if it means giving up the chance at a career that requires a college degree, which in the long run will net far more than 200k...
Yes it can be done without college... but c'mon, hitting it solid without college isn't the norm
On March 23 2013 06:47 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2013 06:42 ZenithM wrote:On March 23 2013 05:58 Recognizable wrote:On March 23 2013 04:02 lightrise wrote:
Micro:
I have really learned what is acceptable and what isn't for school. I just think that all this "collaboration" is bullshit. Lots of times I refuse to do homework with my buddies or my group because I never really learn the material that way. I will sometimes go down to my building and work on the homework and if I get stuck I ask for help understanding something not just getting the answer. What happens for the most part though is for groups bigger then 2/3 there are always people who don't understand the material. People just give out the equations and answers. That is cheating no matter how you look at it. I also have the answers for almost all of the homework problems that are from the book. Is this cheating? Most would assume yes. I usually use it as a source to see if I am on doing shit right because homework in my major can be super hard. If you copy the answer key obviously your an idiot because the teachers have the same answers. The goal of homework is to learn the material not to get the right answer.
I think people would be naive to think cheating isn't commonplace. It just is. Maybe some people are morally superior but in the end it does occur. I disagree. This is not cheating. This is people being dumb. Homework isn't graded isn't it? People can copy answers all they want. They will fail the test anyway. If homework is graded. Well... You are right. But homework being graded? That's on a whole new level of bullshit. Anyway. I had an exam today for Biology and I knew about half the questions already. This lazy teacher of mine made it by using the previous exams which were available on the internet. Which I had practiced. Oh well. I think homework being graded is very common in the US. It was even the context of the Harvard scandal from not too long ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Harvard_cheating_scandal. But yeah it doesn't make too much sense to me either :D Edit: changed "reason" to "context" :D What's this? Kindergarten? Take home exams. wat.
It's common as hell in any US school hah
On March 22 2013 23:17 Japhybaby wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2013 22:46 docvoc wrote:On March 22 2013 10:02 ticklishmusic wrote:
Don't cheat on anything.
Like seriously, just don't. Don't cheat on homework (okay, well if its some incredibly braindead stuff maybe ok). Don't cheat on tests. Don't cheat on friends. Don't cheat on significant others. It's not worth the physical, academic, social, (insert descriptor here), repercussions. I don't know from personal experience, but yeah. Most smart kids I know cheat, from middleschool through college and even into grad school. most academically successful kids that you know cheat you mean. If they're actually "smart" meaning if they actually have the talent to outshine their peers at competitive institutes, they will likely whiz through whatever work is being given for average students.
Plenty of smart people take adderall like no one's business during shitstorm periods. That's... kinda like cheating? Plenty of them also still openly discuss "do not discuss" materials (take home tests, etc) to speed up the process.
On March 23 2013 08:12 ticklishmusic wrote:
on another note, harvard is hard to get in ez to get out. inflation on grades there makes the inflation on the iranian rial look tame. i personally think its hilarious that students started QQing so much cuz a class that was supposed to be easy actually got hard. (btw, that is some serious fail cheating)
Lol... Inflation is only true for Gov., Sociology, and other similar concentrations.. Science classes are still science classes. Same goes for math. Shit's still graded just as harshly as science/math is graded anywhere.
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It's common as hell in any US school hah
Living in dorms, homework being graded... College really seems like High School 2.0 in the US.
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On March 23 2013 18:36 Recognizable wrote:Living in dorms, homework being graded... College really seems like High School 2.0 in the US.
its funny you noticed that. from what i hear, in places like south korea highschool is SUPER intense and difficult, and then uni is much easier, whereas here in canada and the US, highschool is a breeze, and uni will fucking destroy you unless you're careful. (on a slightly unrelated sidenote, most people have to take basic freaking english classes their first year because highschool did a shit job of teaching them how to write coherently)
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The biggest difference the US system has to most other university systems is that you don't pick your major as you apply. In most of Europe you apply to a math program at the school, not the school and then a year or two later pick math. This makes many pieces of advice void since you already picked when starting.
You can switch later on but you can't count credits depending on what you switched to. Doing one year of math and then switching to history you might be able to count one week of the first year into your second choice.
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do the 9-5 grind mon- friday (study) and get that 4.0. Then make the moneyz.
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CA10824 Posts
On March 23 2013 08:12 ticklishmusic wrote:
i spent the last 6 hours studying orgo and now i have a headache, i swear my vision is blurrier than it was several hours ago, and ive spent like 10 bucks on coffee (thats at 99 cents a cup)
think of it just like working out. you wont build muscle or get more fit by faking. sure there's some things that make it easier, but ultimately you need to put in the effort.
on another note, harvard is hard to get in ez to get out. inflation on grades there makes the inflation on the iranian rial look tame. i personally think its hilarious that students started QQing so much cuz a class that was supposed to be easy actually got hard. (btw, that is some serious fail cheating)
ochem wasn't that bad in retrospect. you start seeing the patterns after a few days of intense studying. i studied for those exams 7 days in advance, and by around day 4 or so the material suddenly clicked and i was able to solve problems without much trouble. good luck with your exam!
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On March 23 2013 21:26 biology]major wrote:
do the 9-5 grind mon- friday (study) and get that 4.0. Then make the moneyz.
Isn't this very normal? I talked to a couple of Physics students and 40 hours a week was basically something you had to do unless you wanted to fail.
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On March 23 2013 23:53 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2013 21:26 biology]major wrote:
do the 9-5 grind mon- friday (study) and get that 4.0. Then make the moneyz. Isn't this very normal? I talked to a couple of Physics students and 40 hours a week was basically something you had to do unless you wanted to fail.
Unfortunately, 40 hour study/class weeks for undergrads are uncommon for U.S. undergrads. Sure, some majors are more demanding than others (fine arts are EXTREMELY time-consuming), but most can get away with a lot less. I studied engineering and probably did 25-30 hours a week including class. Some did a lot more and some did a lot less. It all comes down to what the student wants to get out of their studies. Some take it very seriously while others treat class, homework, and studying like a distraction.
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On March 23 2013 21:53 LosingID8 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2013 08:12 ticklishmusic wrote:
i spent the last 6 hours studying orgo and now i have a headache, i swear my vision is blurrier than it was several hours ago, and ive spent like 10 bucks on coffee (thats at 99 cents a cup)
think of it just like working out. you wont build muscle or get more fit by faking. sure there's some things that make it easier, but ultimately you need to put in the effort.
on another note, harvard is hard to get in ez to get out. inflation on grades there makes the inflation on the iranian rial look tame. i personally think its hilarious that students started QQing so much cuz a class that was supposed to be easy actually got hard. (btw, that is some serious fail cheating) ochem wasn't that bad in retrospect. you start seeing the patterns after a few days of intense studying. i studied for those exams 7 days in advance, and by around day 4 or so the material suddenly clicked and i was able to solve problems without much trouble. good luck with your exam!
its also a subject that im just really bad at unfortunately. its like trying to palm a basketball, but my hand's just not quite up to the task.
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On March 22 2013 02:49 ieatkids5 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 19:18 Sated wrote:On March 21 2013 14:03 ieatkids5 wrote:On March 21 2013 13:38 Lexpar wrote:On March 21 2013 13:08 ieatkids5 wrote:On March 21 2013 12:09 catplanetcatplanet wrote:On March 21 2013 10:59 Lexpar wrote:
8 2d ed. Try assorted chemical substances - College is the last safe time you'll have to get high. It takes around 90 days, at most, for most drug residues to disappear from your body. (90 days is for hair samples--it might be shorter for urine, saliva, or blood). A lot of decent jobs require a drug test for admission, and you don't want to have 90-day stretches of unemployment after college... but in college, you can plan out your 420 timetable so that by the time you need to pee into a cup you're completely clean. Winners don't do drugs (the new catplanetcatplanet amendment) ya that. i dont see whats wrong with trying weed or a cigarette. college really is the best time to try it. shadysands isnt advocating that you get hooked on drugs. having the experience of knowing what getting high is like, what smoking a cigarette is like, is valuable. you understand it more, and you can make an informed decision on whether you should do it or not. one time isn't going to harm you any more than many other things in life that people already do. just talking about stuff like weed. shit like heroin is a different story. never do that. How can you understand heroin and make an informed decision about whether you should do it or not without trying? #DevilsAdvocate #AnnoyingQuestions #FuckImSleepy because from what you know and the countless stories of lives being ruined by heroin, the risk of trying it most likely outweighs the experience gained. weed, on the other hand, has a much much lower risk-to-reward ratio. Not doing any of it has a much lower risk-to-reward ratio. no, there's not much risk in trying weed, but there is a reward. unless you dont value the experience of getting high once at all. if that's the case, then yeah, dont try it, but i think it's a valuable experience for anyone. Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 16:40 spinesheath wrote:On March 21 2013 13:38 Lexpar wrote:On March 21 2013 13:08 ieatkids5 wrote:On March 21 2013 12:09 catplanetcatplanet wrote:On March 21 2013 10:59 Lexpar wrote:
8 2d ed. Try assorted chemical substances - College is the last safe time you'll have to get high. It takes around 90 days, at most, for most drug residues to disappear from your body. (90 days is for hair samples--it might be shorter for urine, saliva, or blood). A lot of decent jobs require a drug test for admission, and you don't want to have 90-day stretches of unemployment after college... but in college, you can plan out your 420 timetable so that by the time you need to pee into a cup you're completely clean. Winners don't do drugs (the new catplanetcatplanet amendment) ya that. i dont see whats wrong with trying weed or a cigarette. college really is the best time to try it. shadysands isnt advocating that you get hooked on drugs. having the experience of knowing what getting high is like, what smoking a cigarette is like, is valuable. you understand it more, and you can make an informed decision on whether you should do it or not. one time isn't going to harm you any more than many other things in life that people already do. just talking about stuff like weed. shit like heroin is a different story. never do that. How can you understand heroin and make an informed decision about whether you should do it or not without trying? #DevilsAdvocate #AnnoyingQuestions #FuckImSleepy How can you make an informed decision about suicide without trying? Geez. I don't care if you do drugs, but I sure as hell don't like it when you say things along the lines of "do drugs, it will be good for you". sorry if i implied that you cant make an informed decision without trying it. it should have been "you can make a more informed decision if you have tried it" and obviously, you decide whether to try it or not by weighing the risk to reward of trying it vs not trying it. weed - risk is very little. reward - you get the experience of trying it and understand it more. i say go for it. heroin - risk is super high, addiction, life ruined, etc. reward - you get the experience of trying it and understand it more. risk is too high, dont do it. and of course, you can use the above logic on suicide.
So having been high from drugs is a useful experience? I wonder what else you would consider useful experiences. Isn't it better to try and find sustainable highs naturally? Such as in your work, in hobbies, in friendship or in love?
My advice of life: Avoid anything that only leads to short-term happiness. It can drain your inspiration for finding natural and sustainable happiness, and it can decrease your sensitivity towards long-term happiness, so that you might not realize it when you've found it, and then end up losing it.
Don't learn by screwing up on purpose (experimenting). Try your best to make good and productive decisions at all times. This way you will develop your capacity to make the right decisions, and you will learn the skill of success, ie turning your dreams into reality.
That's a useful skill toi have in life.
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On March 23 2013 21:53 LosingID8 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2013 08:12 ticklishmusic wrote:
i spent the last 6 hours studying orgo and now i have a headache, i swear my vision is blurrier than it was several hours ago, and ive spent like 10 bucks on coffee (thats at 99 cents a cup)
think of it just like working out. you wont build muscle or get more fit by faking. sure there's some things that make it easier, but ultimately you need to put in the effort.
on another note, harvard is hard to get in ez to get out. inflation on grades there makes the inflation on the iranian rial look tame. i personally think its hilarious that students started QQing so much cuz a class that was supposed to be easy actually got hard. (btw, that is some serious fail cheating) ochem wasn't that bad in retrospect. you start seeing the patterns after a few days of intense studying. i studied for those exams 7 days in advance, and by around day 4 or so the material suddenly clicked and i was able to solve problems without much trouble. good luck with your exam!
Ochem is pretty ez. After you start seeing patterns and memorizing mechanisms its not that bad.
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Russian Federation3631 Posts
Not if it means giving up the chance at a career that requires a college degree, which in the long run will net far more than 200k...
Yes it can be done without college... but c'mon, hitting it solid without college isn't the norm
Well yeah, I never said that all college experiences were 4-5 year exercises in self-indulgence. Nor do they all have to cost 200k~.
If you think college is a long-term investment, then you should probably treat it as one instead of evaluating it on the basis of short-term utility.
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On March 23 2013 19:27 StayPhrosty wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2013 18:36 Recognizable wrote:It's common as hell in any US school hah Living in dorms, homework being graded... College really seems like High School 2.0 in the US. its funny you noticed that. from what i hear, in places like south korea highschool is SUPER intense and difficult, and then uni is much easier, whereas here in canada and the US, highschool is a breeze, and uni will fucking destroy you unless you're careful. (on a slightly unrelated sidenote, most people have to take basic freaking english classes their first year because highschool did a shit job of teaching them how to write coherently)
I think that depends on where you go to high school in the States, and on what you do in high school. Most everyone I know tells me that college is much easier than high school, but I go to a fairly privileged high school where a good portion of the student body takes 5 APs a year.
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On March 23 2013 21:53 LosingID8 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2013 08:12 ticklishmusic wrote:
i spent the last 6 hours studying orgo and now i have a headache, i swear my vision is blurrier than it was several hours ago, and ive spent like 10 bucks on coffee (thats at 99 cents a cup)
think of it just like working out. you wont build muscle or get more fit by faking. sure there's some things that make it easier, but ultimately you need to put in the effort.
on another note, harvard is hard to get in ez to get out. inflation on grades there makes the inflation on the iranian rial look tame. i personally think its hilarious that students started QQing so much cuz a class that was supposed to be easy actually got hard. (btw, that is some serious fail cheating) ochem wasn't that bad in retrospect. you start seeing the patterns after a few days of intense studying. i studied for those exams 7 days in advance, and by around day 4 or so the material suddenly clicked and i was able to solve problems without much trouble. good luck with your exam!
Nailed it. Ochem is actually much easier then all the horror stories you hear about it lol. You need to learn the mechanisms and not just study the flash cards for reactions. Everyone that does enough studying can get a B. Its the people that really learn the material and put together the mechanisms and can start to see multi-step reactions on the test are the ones that get the A's. If you don't learn shit well then obviously you are hosed. Pchem is much much harder than Ochem.
Yeah high school totally depends on which one you went to. For the most part though High School and Community College is a freaking joke. It does not prepare most people for college or really give them a good base skillset to do well. That being said most College majors are still a breeze for people with average intelligence. It requires people to do more work than in high school but not by a huge amount. Some majors though are ridiculously hard and/or are time consuming like Architecture. Engineering from what I know is generally the hardest set of majors. Bio students and other science complain about their major but for the most part chemistry students hated when ChemE students were in their classes. Bio is busy work memorizing lots of shit whereas engineering was learning tons of shit and how to apply it.
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EPT
