|
This question arose when me and some friends were discussing, or rather arguing at lunch. They were simply saying they don't like playing StarCraft to the intensity I do and find it fun. I on the other hand counter their beliefs by simply saying if you have a passion of competition that is the fun right there.
Unfortunately I believe my initial reasoning is false. If we look at the definition of the word "fun" from Wikipedia it reads:
Fun is the enjoyment of pleasure, particularly in leisure activities. Fun is an experience - short-term, often unexpected, informal, not cerebral and generally purposeless. It is an enjoyable distraction, diverting the mind and body from any serious task or contributing an extra dimension to it. Although particularly associated with recreation and play, fun may be encountered during work, social functions, and even seemingly mundane activities of daily living. It may often have little to no logical basis, and opinions on whether or not an activity is fun may differ. The distinction between enjoyment and fun is difficult to articulate but real,[1] fun being a more spontaneous, playful, or active event. There are psychological and physiological implications to the experience of fun.
According to the above block of text fun is used in "leisure activities" and fun is only for the "short-term". I initially thought of going home and doing a ladder session for a few hours to be fun. However if the definition of fun is a short-term, unexpected time of pleasure this could not be true.
My pals continued their thoughts that their fun was sitting down and enjoying the game as it is. For example them sitting down to do a 3v3 on ladder or BGH and doing whatever they feel that is fun. Win or lose. However doesn't this interfere with the definition of fun as well as it has to be unexpected? Thing brings into pleasure into the argument.
If they find pleasure in playing leisurely and I find pleasure in be competition aren't they the same? As none of us knew this definition of fun.
Unfortunately the use of the word does not end here. It would be silly to look at one definition. The Oxford dictionary defines fun as:
behavior or an activity that is intended purely for amusement and should not be interpreted as having any serious or malicious purpose:
and defined as a informal adjective as:
amusing, entertaining, or enjoyable:
Oxfords first definition defines fun as purely "pleasure" and cannot be any "serious" purpose. In my case I take my ladder session seriously but I have pleasure despite being aggravated or else I would not continue to ladder. Using this definition my pals would have justifiable reason to call their BGH or 3v3's fun.
In the adjective form however it is defined as "entertaining or enjoyable." We were arguing if my ladder sessions was fun and if it was fun thus I need to define both the adjective and verb definition of the word. We have an issue here. I have pleasure and entertainment despite it being serious. So does that mean I can say my ladder sessions are fun?
If so then we could say playing e-Sport is fun. If not doesen't that mean professional players cannot have fun persay?
I just thought it was interesting.
 
|
Fun
Adjective
Amusing, entertaining, or enjoyable.
Look up any dictionary, if something is fun is entirely up to every single individual. If a pro player says he's having fun playing and he is not telling a lie, then he is indeed having fun.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fun
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fun
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/fun
Oxford dictionary also states:
adjective
amusing, entertaining, or enjoyable: it was a fun evening
If playing starcraft 2 seriously is amusing/entertaining and or enjoyable for someone, then it is fun for them.
Here are also some phrases that show you that it can be utilized in a multitude of contexts.
+ Show Spoiler +
for fun
(or for the fun of it)
in order to amuse oneself and not for any more serious purpose: I paint a bit for fun
Or
what fun!
used to convey that an activity or situation sounds amusing or enjoyable: we’re going to build a snowman—what fun!
|
Fun is such an unspecific word - OP looked it up as 'pleasure', which is better, but enjoyment probably comes closest to it. After all, pleasure doesn't play all that big of a role when it comes to doing fun stuff - think of workout for example, which is definitely not a pleasurable activity, but it can be quite enjoyable and so a lot of people do it 'just for fun', i.e. for the sake of doing it. This is the critical point: Doing something 'just for fun' means you're doing it for the sake of it and not as a means to something else like money, fame etc.
The grammar here is a bit misleading too because one could object that doing something for the sake of enjoyment would therefore mean that this something is not done 'just for fun' (i.e. for the sake of it), but is rather done, as I said, for the sake of enjoyment. This is a misconception because it would be odd for someone to play tennis for the enjoyment it gives him and at the same time hate playing tennis - but it's clearly possible for someone to do something, say work at a store, for the sake of money but actually hate doing it.
Thus enjoyment is always of some activity (there is no such thing as simply just enjoying) and thus enjoyment is activity-specific (each activity has its own kind of enjoyment) and enjoying something means you do it for the sake of it (otherwise you'd be the first one to swap playing sc2 for electrodes implanted in the brain that bring about the same kind of feeling.) So 'fun' or enjoyment is not separate from the activity, but it's a matter of how you engage in that activity.
Let's say all competitive players play to win; either because they need to earn a living (think tournaments) or because winning a lot is a sign of improvement (think ladder). Playing the game for the sake of money or for the sake of becoming a better player is a for-the-sake-of-which that is something other than just playing the game. If you play to improve your game, then you don't play 'just for fun', even if becoming a better player is done for the sake of it.
This differs from people who really play 'just for fun', i.e. regardless of whether they win, lose, improve, become famous or whatever. It's kinda like playing badminton at a family gathering or soccer with your friends; the same happens when you gather friends to casually play team games in bronze.
inb4: 1. But doing x which leads to y, where y is something done 'just for fun', is the same as doing x 'just for fun' omg semantics!!!!111 (no, go away), 2. But we don't ever do anything just for the sake of it unless it's some grand idea of happiness that we do everything for the sake of omg it's all the same!!11 (don't go there, please just don't)
|
I'm unsure how someone is going to argue or debate fun-ness.
Watching or playing StarCraft can be fun for someone, and not fun for someone else... the latter person may find it too difficult or boring, and consider it not worth his time and effort. His interests may lie elsewhere, and he may consider something else "fun". Different things appeal to different people.
It might depend on who's casting, who's playing, your mood, what race you're playing as (or against), whether you're playing a 1v1 or team game, and a whole bunch of other things.
|
"Fun" is not related to seriousness in those definitions because it's just not related to the serious part of the activity. It doesn't mean serious and fun are mutually exclusive. If you have to study something to reach something, and by reaching it you feel pleasure, that doesn't make that activity fun. It's not the objective that gives you pleasure for it to be fun, the activity itself has to be enjoyable regardless of how serious it is. You have to enjoy it even if it is completelly meaningless and just a "waste of time".
That's the only that definition works for me, I have a really hard time believing the actual intent of the word is that nothing that is remotely serious can be called fun.
Even your own wikipedia defition says "fun may be encountered during work". Work is hardly ever not purposeless, so the same statement would contradict itself.
|
When I used to play BW I was very serious, I tried very hard and I think that I didn't enjoy the game as much as I thought I did. Now I still put in an effort, but I am completely free from out come, win or lose. I think that this is a better mentality to have when playing the game unless you want to turn into someone with an unhealthy obsession with ascertaining high rank.
Changing the format from 3v3 to 1v1 for points doesn't have to change your mentality to how you play the game. It probably does for a lot of people though.
|
Are you always anal about things???
fun is entirely arbitrary. It differs by person and you can't be wrong or right.
|
I used to think SC2 is fun to me but if Wikipedia says no it means no  It's just a pity I didn't find it out earlier, I have wasted so much time playing something that was no fun at all, as it just turned out.
|
East Gorteau22261 Posts
Do you think it's fun? Then I suspect it is, indeed, fun.
|
There are times when some things seem funner than they should be. Such as when exams come up. The most boring of games suddenly becomes addicting....
|
10387 Posts
Some play for fun, some play for competition. I remember in the Bisu/Jaedong dual special interview, Bisu said he was driven by how fun the game was, whereas Jaedong stated he was driven more by how fun the competition was.
|
I'm reminded of an Extra Credits video I read once, about what makes games compelling. It's not necessarily fun. It's engagement. A good example of this is a horror game. You're going through, staring at every shadow, preparing to piss yourself when the next thing jumps out at you. I wouldn't really call this fun, but it's engaging as hell: You pretty much forget there's a world outside the game.
The same can be true of competitive games. I wouldn't call spending twelve minutes on a tactical chess position an incredibly fun experience, but it's very engaging. Similarly, when playing Starcraft 2, I don't know how much fun I have. I often am actively enjoying myself, but I'm basically always engaged: My full mental faculties are being brought to bear on this particular activity, and nothing else exists.
So, to some players it's fun. To some it isn't. But it doesn't actually have to be fun for it to be a compelling experience.
|
On February 13 2013 10:46 Salivanth wrote:
I'm reminded of an Extra Credits video I read once, about what makes games compelling. It's not necessarily fun. It's engagement. A good example of this is a horror game. You're going through, staring at every shadow, preparing to piss yourself when the next thing jumps out at you. I wouldn't really call this fun, but it's engaging as hell: You pretty much forget there's a world outside the game.
The same can be true of competitive games. I wouldn't call spending twelve minutes on a tactical chess position an incredibly fun experience, but it's very engaging. Similarly, when playing Starcraft 2, I don't know how much fun I have. I often am actively enjoying myself, but I'm basically always engaged: My full mental faculties are being brought to bear on this particular activity, and nothing else exists.
So, to some players it's fun. To some it isn't. But it doesn't actually have to be fun for it to be a compelling experience.
This is the best post so far in this thread.
To the rest I say: if one doesn't even have a clear conception of what fun is, one cannot determine precisely whether one has it when doing something. And even then, one can always be mistaken as to the motivating factors that compell one to do something. So even though I enjoy eating lunch, I don't do it just for fun, but to nourish myself. Likewise competitive players enjoy playing competitively, yet they don't do it just for fun, but to win/improve.
|
I basically agree with the two previous posts. You can't objectively measure fun. For example, people pay money to go to the movies. But people have preferences for what kinds of movies they enjoy, some will favor comedy, or action, or drama, etc. They will pay money to watch a movie even if it's a tearjerker and pulls at your heart and makes you cry, or a movie that is non-stop heart pumping action where your blood pressure level is elevated and you feel like you're about to pass our from the suspense. Neither of these experiences are objectively "fun" in the sense that they are not innately enjoyable or pleasurable or relaxing, compared to lets say a relaxing spa visit or an enjoyable hot shower or a pleasurable nap. But there's something to be said about the adventure aspect of it; a sad or scary movie might make you cry or sweat but in the end you feel almost enlightened that you survived the experience. There is something liberating about watching a movie that makes you cry or sweat but knowing in the back of your mind that none of it is real so you can leave the movie having experienced it and possibly having been touched or moved by it in some way. You might experience stress watching a movie but the fact that it's a controlled environment allows you to explore yourself in some ways.
"Fun" is not only experiencing enjoyment, relaxation, or pleasure. It can also involve feeling anticipation, excitement, nervousness. There can be a thrilling aspect to it. It can be about mastering macro and mechanics and strategy to win a beautifully played game of Starcraft (fun from the game itself), or the fun might purely come from the win itself, of the prospect of challenging someone and prevailing, being the last man standing (fun from winning). There are many levels of fun. Many different activities can be fun: taking a nap, watching a movie, playing a game of starcraft, riding a rollercoaster.
|
On February 13 2013 01:03 Pucca wrote:
They were simply saying they don't like playing StarCraft to the intensity I do
You mean intense like...
+ Show Spoiler +
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/R0pK9.gif)
![[image loading]](http://defiler.ru/chat/smiles-visible/troll.png)
![[image loading]](http://defiler.ru/chat/smiles-hidden/hehe.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://defiler.ru/chat/smiles-hidden/must2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://defiler.ru/chat/smiles-visible/048.gif)
