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Some of you might as well, but I'm planning to take the February LSAT. I got a 165 last year when I took it and I really want a 170+. My Japan blogs will have to wait until I'm done with the test. I just got my 6 new practice tests from delivery today and I'm kinda scared / excited to test them out to see how much my score has dropped within half a year of not studying. My RC section is still my weakest section, so we'll see how it goes.
My dream is to get into a good law school and get into biglaw, where I have to option of moving internationally to practice law for a big name corporation overseas. I'm still 24, turning 25 next month (my birthday happens before the test date, what bad luck) so I feel like my mid twenties is where I really need to step it up and improve my life. I've always been a B student, had low GPA (3.2) in college, only managed to reach D+ on Iccup, so it's now or never to prove to myself I can do it.
I actually got accepted to Fordham, and I'm waiting to hear back from Emory. I applied to Cornell, UCLA, Georgetown, but I'm probably lucky to even get waitlisted for those schools with my GPA. I'd probably choose Fordham over Emory if I get accepted, but we'll see.
The fact that I'm in Japan and I'm going on 4 dates with 4 different girls every 2 weeks is not helping my studying schedule. Sometimes, I clash with my co-worker Japanese teachers so I can't wait to get a real degree and go into a real career and leave this shit job. Too fed up and burned out.
I haven't eaten real Korean food in over a year. I haven't eaten a real pizza, and I'm craving spicy buffalo wings, or Five Guys burgers. Someone save me...
  
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I'm a couple years into biglaw in NYC. It's not a bad gig, but if you really want it, I would definitely reapply with a higher LSAT score. I think you'll probably have it easier than me finding a job (I went through law school in the height of the recession), but biglaw becomes exponentially easier to get if you're at a t14. There are a couple regional schools that do decently - Fordham's one of them because it's in NYC - but going to a T14 right off the bat is still much more preferable than banking on doing well at Fordham.
There are a couple T14s that are known for taking lowGPA/high LSAT splitters. Georgetown's one of them, Northwestern is another. If you can get a 3.2/173+ then your chances improve drastically.
That being said, biglaw really isn't for everyone. I went to a T6, and know quite a few people who wanted biglaw and never made it (again, recession), made it and hated it and have already left for smaller firms or public interest, or left law entirely, and many others who are thinking about leaving. And I'm only a couple years out. Getting "into biglaw" and having the "option of moving internationally to practice law for a big name corporation overseas" is really much less glamorous than it sounds (and you won't necessarily have that option just because you're in biglaw.)
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I really want to get into a T14, but worst case scenario, if I have just the choice between Fordham and Emory, what do you recommend? I don't mind working in NY, and my ultimate goal is getting to biglaw. Emory seems like it holds a much stronger national name, but Fordham seems like it offers higher chance of getting into a famous law firm.
I applied to Georgetown, and I missed the off-campus interview deadline for Northwestern, since I live outside the country, I wasn't going to pay 2k USD roundtrip air fare ticket just for a chance to apply to Northwestern..
Where did you graduate from?
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Fordham over Emory, imo. The NYC part helps quite a bit if you have to look independently outside of on-campus interviews, and for on-campus interviews, almost all the major NYC firms will send interviewers there because it's low cost. And there are a lot of Fordham grads in NYC biglaw.
I'll PM you my school
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I've always wondered why most everyone heading to law school says they want to do biglaw.
I'm going next year and there's not a chance I'll touch biglaw, it sounds beyond boring and painful in a terrible corporate fashion.
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I'd definitely strongly suggest fordham over emory for similar reasons to dueleR. UCLA would be a tremendous acceptance to receive though, so good luck with the rest, here's one more hoping that you get in there!
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On January 29 2013 22:27 KillerSOS wrote:
I've always wondered why most everyone heading to law school says they want to do biglaw.
I'm going next year and there's not a chance I'll touch biglaw, it sounds beyond boring and painful in a terrible corporate fashion.
It comes down to the fact that most people who get it can't turn down the money, especially right after law school when they likely have 100k+ in loans.
And my caveats aside, it depends on the department you're in and the work you do. I'm in a smaller department in my biglaw firm (i.e., not corporate or litigation) and it's not a bad life.
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Lol @ how many kids want to go to law school for the money and prestige and self-importance (aka big law). The sole reason you should choose law school is because you have a burning desire to do legal work. That you cite big law and prestige makes your decision an objectively bad one. Do you know how many kids are applying to law school in the hopes of making big law? Do you know what the success rate is? Or the happiness rate of big law associates?
I was a paralegal in big law. Of the paralegal group I worked with, the vast majority went in wanting to go to law school and the vast majority changed their minds. The associate work fucking sucks bud. When I went to trials, there were 8th year associates who didnt do a thing in court.
I actually went so far as to apply and get accepted (Washington & Lee) but then changed my mind. 99% (literally) of the lawyers who I tell I applied to law school but then changed my mind tell me I made the right decision.
You have a better chance of making money outside of law school, trust me  .
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The fact that I'm in Japan and I'm going on 4 dates with 4 different girls every 2 weeks is not helping my studying schedule.
Oh, so this was actually a brag blog in disguise? Clever 
Just kidding. Good luck on your LSAT! How long ago did you take the last one (you said "last year", but when last year)? If it hasn't been that long of a hiatus, then maybe (hopefully) picking up the practice tests again will be like riding a bicycle
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On January 30 2013 00:32 Doodsmack wrote:Lol @ how many kids want to go to law school for the money and prestige and self-importance (aka big law). The sole reason you should choose law school is because you have a burning desire to do legal work. That you cite big law and prestige makes your decision an objectively bad one. Do you know how many kids are applying to law school in the hopes of making big law? Do you know what the success rate is? Or the happiness rate of big law associates? I was a paralegal in big law. Of the paralegal group I worked with, the vast majority went in wanting to go to law school and the vast majority changed their minds. The associate work fucking sucks bud. When I went to trials, there were 8th year associates who didnt do a thing in court. I actually went so far as to apply and get accepted (Washington & Lee) but then changed my mind. 99% (literally) of the lawyers who I tell I applied to law school but then changed my mind tell me I made the right decision. You have a better chance of making money outside of law school, trust me .
I agree with this in milder terms. The money's decent in biglaw if you can get it, but if you want to do it for the prestige and self-importance, forget about it. Especially where I am (NYC), the fact that I'm a biglaw associate counts for basically nothing. Lawyers and bigger fish (bankers, pe/hedge fund guys, whatever) are a dime a dozen in this town. Believe me, it has basically zero social cachet. You have to like your work to make it bearable.
I don't advise people against law school generally (after all, I went and don't regret my own decision), but I would say don't go to law school unless you are independently interested in doing legal work and are ok with 1) not making biglaw or even getting a legal job, and/or 2) making much less than a biglaw salary with potentially mountains of debt. For the right person who is motivated and likes the law generally (as opposed to "international law" or "human rights law" or "sports law," or whatever other vague term 1Ls have in their heads, which more than likely they won't end up getting a job in, and in any case is much more boring than it sounds), and has a high enough lsat score to go to a ~t10, it's a decent career option.
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Unless you have a burning desire for law, don't do it. The job market is utter shit right now unless you're coming out of a t14 with pretty good marks, or a slightly lesser school with stellar marks.
Even if you had a true passion for it (it doesn't sound like it) 3.2 + 165 isn't getting you shit as far as scholarships. A quick google showed 'The school’s 2009 entering class boasted a median LSAT score of 166 and a median GPA of 3.64'. You're an average student with above average test taking skills, and you'd be going into an ultra compettive environment with some of the most gifted students from around the country. You really think you can suddenly improve to graduate in the top 10% of your class??
Even assuming you can, just go on financials and job market.
Fordham is a hair under $48k a year for full time. There is an abnormally large glut of unemployed lawyers, and there's more law students applying and in law school than ever. So assuming you go and graduate, you'll be coming out with a solid $200k of debt at least once you add in living expenses to your loans, going against more competition than ever, with firms offering lower pay than they normally do due to the economy and the fact that unemployed lawyers will claw out each other's eyes for a shitty $45k a year position
unless you've really got a passion for law, and the marks to match, thereby earning you some scholarship money, it's a poor investment.
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On January 30 2013 01:29 QuanticHawk wrote:
Unless you have a burning desire for law, don't do it. The job market is utter shit right now unless you're coming out of a t14 with pretty good marks, or a slightly lesser school with stellar marks.
Even if you had a true passion for it (it doesn't sound like it) 3.2 + 165 isn't getting you shit as far as scholarships. A quick google showed 'The school’s 2009 entering class boasted a median LSAT score of 166 and a median GPA of 3.64'. You're an average student with above average test taking skills, and you'd be going into an ultra compettive environment with some of the most gifted students from around the country. You really think you can suddenly improve to graduate in the top 10% of your class??
Even assuming you can, just go on financials and job market.
Fordham is a hair under $48k a year for full time. There is an abnormally large glut of unemployed lawyers, and there's more law students applying and in law school than ever. So assuming you go and graduate, you'll be coming out with a solid $200k of debt at least once you add in living expenses to your loans, going against more competition than ever, with firms offering lower pay than they normally do due to the economy and the fact that unemployed lawyers will claw out each other's eyes for a shitty $45k a year position
unless you've really got a passion for law, and the marks to match, thereby earning you some scholarship money, it's a poor investment.
So true this is the reason why I'm not interested in the law school market at the moment(too many dumbass students going to law school just for the sake of it) and going to grad school instead. As of right now It's pretty much t14 schools or bust. Even if you have stellar marks at some shitty t2/t3 schools you better hope they have some good connections from the alumni.
To the author, by your score you're smart enough to make good decisions. I'm not going to tell you what you want to do. It's your money really. If you know you could get a better score go for it. If this is really your passion go for it. But if it isn't take a hard look in the mirror. Do I want over 150k in debt and be jobless?
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I work in biglaw and generally agree with QuanticHawk. Do it if you really, really want to be a lawyer or have another already career in mind that the JD will facilitate. Also, unless you're going to YLS, do not go to law school if you're not going to focus on being at the very top of your class. If you think you're not going to give your studies everything you've got don't bother going (unless you're a lot smarter than the rest of your classmate, which is very rarely the case). The job market for students outside HYS is pretty difficult from what I can tell.
If you want to make a lot of money, you should shoot for a career in finance, but to be honest, with a 3.2 GPA (no matter where you went to undergrad, unless you have a connection (Lloyd Blankfein is a relative, eg)), you're not going to get a job at an Ibank or private equity fund.
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On January 30 2013 07:33 TriO wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 01:29 QuanticHawk wrote:
Unless you have a burning desire for law, don't do it. The job market is utter shit right now unless you're coming out of a t14 with pretty good marks, or a slightly lesser school with stellar marks.
Even if you had a true passion for it (it doesn't sound like it) 3.2 + 165 isn't getting you shit as far as scholarships. A quick google showed 'The school’s 2009 entering class boasted a median LSAT score of 166 and a median GPA of 3.64'. You're an average student with above average test taking skills, and you'd be going into an ultra compettive environment with some of the most gifted students from around the country. You really think you can suddenly improve to graduate in the top 10% of your class??
Even assuming you can, just go on financials and job market.
Fordham is a hair under $48k a year for full time. There is an abnormally large glut of unemployed lawyers, and there's more law students applying and in law school than ever. So assuming you go and graduate, you'll be coming out with a solid $200k of debt at least once you add in living expenses to your loans, going against more competition than ever, with firms offering lower pay than they normally do due to the economy and the fact that unemployed lawyers will claw out each other's eyes for a shitty $45k a year position
unless you've really got a passion for law, and the marks to match, thereby earning you some scholarship money, it's a poor investment.
So true this is the reason why I'm not interested in the law school market at the moment(too many dumbass students going to law school just for the sake of it) and going to grad school instead. As of right now It's pretty much t14 schools or bust. Even if you have stellar marks at some shitty t2/t3 schools you better hope they have some good connections from the alumni. To the author, by your score you're smart enough to make good decisions. I'm not going to tell you what you want to do. It's your money really. If you know you could get a better score go for it. If this is really your passion go for it. But if it isn't take a hard look in the mirror. Do I want over 150k in debt and be jobless?
You don't necessarily need law to be your passion to do well; you just have to have an extremely good work ethic because everyone else will have at least a pretty good work ethic and you'll need to do better than they do to get a good job (unless you're at HYS). If you go to a "tier 2" or "tier 3" school you can still land a big law job (I work at large law firm with people who graduated from state schools and "tier 3" schools), as well as lots of people who went to YLS, HLS, etc., but you will very likely need to be at the very top of your class (top 5 or better) to be a lock to get a job at a biglaw firm.
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On January 29 2013 22:14 GhostOwl wrote:
I really want to get into a T14, but worst case scenario, if I have just the choice between Fordham and Emory, what do you recommend? I don't mind working in NY, and my ultimate goal is getting to biglaw. Emory seems like it holds a much stronger national name, but Fordham seems like it offers higher chance of getting into a famous law firm.
I applied to Georgetown, and I missed the off-campus interview deadline for Northwestern, since I live outside the country, I wasn't going to pay 2k USD roundtrip air fare ticket just for a chance to apply to Northwestern..
Where did you graduate from?
Last post -- go to Fordham if you don't mind working in NY. There are tons of law firms in NY and Fordham has alumni at all of the biggest and best law firms in NYC. If you graduate in the top 10% of your class (or, more accurately, if you have grades after 1L year that put you in the top 10% of your class), you will get hired somewhere. Nevertheless, that's easier said than done. Your LSAT score probably would put you in the middle of your class and your grades would put you in the bottom 1/3rd (i'm guessing here) of your class, so unless you seriously ratchet up how hard you study (as compared to how hard you studied in the past) and have an innate talent for taking law school exams, I wouldn't go in expecting to finish in the top 10%.
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On January 30 2013 08:57 The_Darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 07:33 TriO wrote:On January 30 2013 01:29 QuanticHawk wrote:
Unless you have a burning desire for law, don't do it. The job market is utter shit right now unless you're coming out of a t14 with pretty good marks, or a slightly lesser school with stellar marks.
Even if you had a true passion for it (it doesn't sound like it) 3.2 + 165 isn't getting you shit as far as scholarships. A quick google showed 'The school’s 2009 entering class boasted a median LSAT score of 166 and a median GPA of 3.64'. You're an average student with above average test taking skills, and you'd be going into an ultra compettive environment with some of the most gifted students from around the country. You really think you can suddenly improve to graduate in the top 10% of your class??
Even assuming you can, just go on financials and job market.
Fordham is a hair under $48k a year for full time. There is an abnormally large glut of unemployed lawyers, and there's more law students applying and in law school than ever. So assuming you go and graduate, you'll be coming out with a solid $200k of debt at least once you add in living expenses to your loans, going against more competition than ever, with firms offering lower pay than they normally do due to the economy and the fact that unemployed lawyers will claw out each other's eyes for a shitty $45k a year position
unless you've really got a passion for law, and the marks to match, thereby earning you some scholarship money, it's a poor investment.
So true this is the reason why I'm not interested in the law school market at the moment(too many dumbass students going to law school just for the sake of it) and going to grad school instead. As of right now It's pretty much t14 schools or bust. Even if you have stellar marks at some shitty t2/t3 schools you better hope they have some good connections from the alumni. To the author, by your score you're smart enough to make good decisions. I'm not going to tell you what you want to do. It's your money really. If you know you could get a better score go for it. If this is really your passion go for it. But if it isn't take a hard look in the mirror. Do I want over 150k in debt and be jobless? You don't necessarily need law to be your passion to do well; you just have to have an extremely good work ethic because everyone else will have at least a pretty good work ethic and you'll need to do better than they do to get a good job (unless you're at HYS). If you go to a "tier 2" or "tier 3" school you can still land a big law job (I work at large law firm with people who graduated from state schools and "tier 3" schools), as well as lots of people who went to YLS, HLS, etc., but you will very likely need to be at the very top of your class (top 5 or better) to be a lock to get a job at a biglaw firm.
even if you were top 5 at a t3, you'd still would have to be at a t3 without many highly rated law schools in the region too. I thought about going down this path a few years ago and the best I was gonna do was Rutgers or Seton. Based on the regional schools in the area, I basically needed to be top 5% to have a chance of a good job (i obviously didn't go)
anywho, came back to the thread to post this
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/31/education/law-schools-applications-fall-as-costs-rise-and-jobs-are-cut.html?smid=pl-share&_r=2&
Those debt numbers seem way low too. Several of my buddies went and when you factor in living expenses (since you're not working) you can quickly get up to or over $200k. Outside of my one friend and some of his buddies that i know that that went to a T14 together, most of the other lawyer friends and acquaintences either do not have jobs, have jobs in other fields, or are so grossly underpaid for their law job that they're pretty much gonna have to live at home til 30+
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Thanks for the helpful responses
@Dark my last LSAT was October 2011
Well the thing is, if I go to Fordham, I have no living expenses because I can live with my family. It's fortunate and unfortunate at the same time. I guess it will help me really focus on studying. So if I go to Fordham at full price, I'd imagine I would have 130k ish in debt after graduating. Its much better than 200k +
I'm really determined to study my ass off to be top 10% of my class so I can get a good corporate job. My undergraduate GPA doesn't represent my intelligence...I had to work my ass off during undergrad because my family couldn't support me
I'm really happy to see fellow law school students/ graduates exist on TL lol.
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there's no harm besides the reg fee in taking it again, but i would seriously reconsider if you are not getting some hefty financial help. do a little research and see what 130k in student loans comes out to in monthly payments. then take a look and see what the job market looks like for lawyers, and what the lucky ones that get jobs are getting paid coming out. goodluck
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EPT
