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I have been studying Chinese extensively for the past 3 years. I started Sophomore year taking Mandarin I. That following summer I studied and passed the placement exam to place out of Mandarin II. So I was placed into Mandarin III Junior year. The following Summer I continued to study. Senior year I am currently taking Mandarin IV and AP. I am currently at a "6th" year level of Chinese in my reading.
Mandarin or any other dialect of Chinese is known to be very difficult to speak verbally due to the tones within the language. While I struggle with the pronunciation especially "s-like" sounds due to my lisp; I've been rated by my fluent Chinese friends as a 7 out of 10 with my pronunciation and they can understand me.
At this point in my Chinese learning career I don't think I can become any more "fluent" at home. I continue to add new vocabulary to my internal dictionary of Chinese words but I never use them. What can you do at home to get pasts the generic textbook study?
I ask the question do you think someone can become fluent in a language at home without moving to a country that speaks the language natively?
Poll: Do you think someone can become fluent in a language at home without mYes (36) 71% No (15) 29% 51 total votes Your vote: Do you think someone can become fluent in a language at home without m (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
 
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Of course you can be fluent on a language without moving to a country that speaks said language. Plenty of people speak english fluently without ever moving to the US or UK.
It's hard to say what exactly is your question. If you mean learning by textbooks alone, it's obviously much harder, but being at your own country doesn't prevent you from interacting with people that speak the language you want to learn, be it in classes, in person or even on the internet.
Chinese is probally harder, just because of the nature of the language, and I cant really say anything specific about it, but you question doesn't specify chinese. Other western languages are much easier to be fluent in.
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Yes,I grew up watching German television(cartoons mostly at first,pokemon mainly) since I was 5 years old,by the time of 4th grade I was practically fluent in it and I never picked up a German book in my life.The downside was that I had no idea about the grammar rules,I just formed sentences based on hearing(which were still correct 99% of the time so I couldn't be bothered in learning the theory).
I guess the basic is just to listen to people talk the language,you don't have to move to that particular country but you need to listen and read a lot.
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On January 24 2013 04:39 TheKefka wrote:
Yes,I grew up watching German television(cartoons mostly at first,pokemon mainly) since I was 5 years old,by the time of 4th grade I was practically fluent in it and I never picked up a German book in my life.The downside was that I had no idea about the grammar rules,I just formed sentences based on hearing(which were still correct 99% of the time so I couldn't be bothered in learning the theory).
I guess the basic is just to listen to people talk the language,you don't have to move to that particular country but you need to listen and read a lot.
"Grew up" is the key here. The mechanisms in your brain for language acquisition change dramatically after childhood. When you're older, learning a language by immersion is the best way to mimic the way you learned [first] language(s) as a child, and it's incomparably more efficient than study alone, but it's neurologically not the same, and it's much less efficient than the process you're describing from your childhood. IIRC the cognitive window for rapid language acquisition closes around age 10, but the wheels are already in motion in your first year of life. Total immersion is the most efficient way to pick up [second] language(s) as an adult, but I doubt it's strictly necessary as long as you have relatively frequent access to native speakers.
Can you become fluent in language ____ with ...
...with just books: not a chance.
...with books plus talking to native speakers often: yes, with a lot of effort. (That's you, OP)
...with native speakers all around you all the time: yes, with some effort.
...by being a toddler exposed to the language: yes, with little to no effort.
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If you are in a envirement that forces you to speak Mandarin on a daily basis, i' d say you have a 70% chance of continously speaking fluently. If you move to a country or envirement (dunno how to spell this word) you go up to 90 %. if your not, you fall back to 40 %. Like you said, learning languages out of a textbook can only take you so far, like SC, you have to constantly apply theory so that you can make it work.
I would like to discuss another point as well. What degree of Fluency you want to archieve? And for how much time you wish to keep this? Learning a new language, You will never be at the same time fluent in the same way. Your fluency will drop and get better depending on a number of factores (will, amount of time studying, amount of time spoken, amount of time heard)
Also keep in mind, (because we usually go for foreign languages that attract us because of their former culture, unless its for economical reasons) in my opinion its as important to focus on customs and ways of life of the culture to understand and speak fluently, as is the language itself. At a certain point, once your grammar and fluency are basically flawless, you start meeting other kind of barriers, such as ways of expression and verbs used.
Keep in mind one other thing (still IMO): A language is as difficult to speak and learn, proportionate to how much you want to learn it. For example, if you fall in love with a girl that speaks Arab, you will be learning much more fast Arab than say German (which is linguistically closer to English)
There is a number of things that are all fun to get past generic textbook study:
- Watch films, with Mandarin language but your native tongue subtitles.
- Listen daily to online radio in Mandarin. Even just 5 or 10 minutes. The most important thing is to be consistensy.
- Play videogames (where available) in Mandarin language.
- Learn some songs in Mandarin. It is x3 times more easy for our Brains to remember words in different languages when a word is associated with another word. For example i know "ni hao" . How i learned this was associating it to "ciao" (which means hello as well) (aldo its better to associate a word to another word in the same language but i don' t know any other words in Mandarin.
Hope this helps and good luck Pucca..have fun..
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I guess this is one area I can speak with a little bit of authority on...
You'll be able to become proficient enough to pass exams, you'll become proficient enough to become understandable, but you will never become 'fluent' on your own-- language is an organized and structured collection of social norms and social action-- it evolves through interaction, and if we think of language as an organism, its natural ecosystem is social interaction. You can raise it in a lab (i.e. learn it at home, alone), but if your criteria is to become natural sounding as a native speaker, it is impossible without interaction. Proficient, certainly, understandable, definitely, but not 'fluent'.
But yeah, if you absolutely can't communicate with speakers, then try to absorb as much language in its natural context as possible-- films/music/books etc, it's not the same as interacting and DOING the language, but it's closer than memorizing rules or reading dictionaries. But, your name says you're from Singapore, so there is no shortage of Mandarin speakers, so get out and interact man!
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I'm fluent in english and I've never even been to a country that has english as their main language.
Watching videos in that language from native speakers (especially movies/series) helps with saying from that language, and knowing people to skype with is especially great to practice.
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"at home"= in your own country, taking courses, speaking with others, using the language to communicate a lot, getting feedback -> yes
"at home"= in your house, learning from books/videos/internet, barely speaking to others face-to-face, not getting feedback ->no
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Well yea, I'm fluent and I've never lived in China. You just have to use it.
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I studied Japanese for about 4 years before moving to Japan, and in a single year of living here I have learned more than during all the time I studied. I feel like you definitely can learn a language studying in your home country, but it feels more like a chore. I didn't even realize how much I was learning here because it just happens naturally.
I'm not very dedicated to studying, so I would imagine if you could keep hitting the books and stay motivated you could learn fine without being in China. If you ever get the chance though I would try to move to China to study though, it helps immensely.
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It depends what you mean by "fluent." You can gain a competency not unlike native speakers at home (which is still going to require some sort of immersion), but to have native-like fluency . . . that's something that requires total immersion for a long period of time. One of the reasons for this is that language is always changing due to social factors brought on by the culture in which the language is used and its speakers are subject to this change, so unless you're influenced by the culture (and I don't mean T.V. shows, etc) you wont be receptive to the same changes they are.
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Even though I myself have no experience learning a foreign language in another country but I can speak behalf on my father's experiences.
For him, it was difficult to achieve a fluency of language at home. If age matters, he was I think 20's when he started attending English tutor and lessons and did it for approximately 7 years before coming to Canada. Sure, his English skill seemed perfect in Korea because of his perfect grammar,good writing technique, and somewhat good speaking skills, but when we arrived at Canada, all of his knowledge in English disappeared.
I wasn't sure exactly why (didn't bother to ask him since it could have embarrassed him :p) but I think the style of language spoken from people and the brain actively trying to comprehend a phrase that he has never heard before was a pretty big factor. Plus, I've heard him say it was pretty intimidating to speak to Caucasian compared to fellow Korean who spoke English.
Now it's been a couple of years since both of my parents (my mother had no experience in English unlike my dad) lived here, and I can say, their English skills is pretty similar and good. Although, I can't really call my dad's previous English lesson useless, I think it showed that visiting the actual country can benefit you faster and possibly better compared to home studying I suppose.
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EPT
