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Praetorial
United States4241 Posts
On December 14 2012 11:26 Dfgj wrote: I feel like speaking teams are practically an academic sport at this point. Not really. The community is very insular and the school never announces our winning, ever. | ||
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docvoc
United States5491 Posts
On December 14 2012 11:47 Praetorial wrote: Not really. The community is very insular and the school never announces our winning, ever. I know how you feel about that, I'm on Model UN and Debate, both of which get very little press. But I have a much lower GPA than that, but I do have close to that amount of hours in community service and all of that jazz, glad to know I meet a few requirements haha. | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
On December 14 2012 12:18 docvoc wrote: I know how you feel about that, I'm on Model UN and Debate, both of which get very little press. But I have a much lower GPA than that, but I do have close to that amount of hours in community service and all of that jazz, glad to know I meet a few requirements haha. Eh, depends on your perspective compared to, say, playing football, yeah Debate/speech/model un are very "low profile," but trust me, there are tons of extracurricular that are even more profile than you. you only think you're low profile because you don't actually know about the truly low profile ones  In fact i'd rank speech and debate, for example, as a very high profile extracurricular. | ||
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number01
203 Posts
US colleges discriminate against certain races, IE if you're Black or Mexican you can get admitted with much lower scores/grades than if you're White/Asian. LOL you have no idea what you are talking about. Most USA colleges do not want asians because their spots fill very quickly. It is not that hard to find 1000 asians competing for a position in Hardvard, while there are probably 50 hispanics trying to get there. If you are white, you are almost guaranteed any college even if you dont get your first choice. Most asians nowadays switch their last names to sound more hispanic or white in order to fill other spots. It is the reality that they are extremely greedy and have no respect for other ethnicity. Just attend one of the upper biology classes on any university and you will see tons of people with the last name "Patel". In one of my classes there were around 15 people with that last name. cheers! User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
On December 14 2012 13:08 number01 wrote: Most asians nowadays switch their last names to sound more hispanic or white in order to fill other spots. It is the reality that they are extremely greedy and have no respect for other ethnicity. lolwut | ||
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Sabu113
United States11080 Posts
Much like resumes, go for fancy titles and be reassured that no one really knows how legitimate something is. That said if you get yourself really invoved with 1-2 things rather than president of 5/6 you'll have an experience that you can put onto a resume. There are a ton of pretty damn smart people you will meet at the upper end schools. The question is are you interesting? My half-black friend chose to go to harvard when he had a gamut of choices. He had an incredible experience because he was smart, charismatic and made his own experience. The big sell for ivys is that connection network you get. Check out some liberal arts schools. Different style but it may give you a worthwhile experience. Claremonts are one well known to the SC community. Then there is Williams et al., the ones up in Maine, Reed for the PNW. | ||
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Panya
United States44 Posts
However, in your post you never even stated what kind of school you want to reach. Depending on your goals, perhaps you are not far off from your dream school at all. Theres a lot of good advice already in this thread, but I wanted to offer you another perspective from someone who years ago went through this stressful process. Basically how colleges work in the US is they approach admissions holistically (many different parts of your application build up to your final applicant “quality”), but in practice 99% of schools care about a few things: GPA and SAT/ACT. If you have a solid GPA and test score, that can itself get you into just about any college outside the USNWR top 30, and if it’s high enough, you can get a lot of scholarship (for example if you earn a national merit scholarship http://www.nationalmerit.org/ schools will literally mail you acceptance letters for a free 4 year admissions). Where the admissions process gets tricky is in the top 30 range. This is when the other stuff comes in: Courseload difficulty Recommendations Extracurriculars Essays Other stuff (hooks, legacies, how good your high school is etc). As your schools get better the difficulty of getting in gets exponentially more difficult, and whether you can be admitted gets harder and harder to judge. Back in the day a few of the UC schools actually listed their in depth methodology trying to assign point values to subjective criteria. Nowadays its not posted anymore online, but looking at some old archives it can perhaps provide an interesting look at how adcoms think about their students at UCSD and comparable schools: http://web.archive.org/web/20071116012623/http://www.geocities.com/kisasong/UCSDComprehensive.htm Basically from maybe rank 30-15, its still mostly your grades, but the subjective factors pick up a lot more. Given your current background in speech and the like, I think you can give yourself a solid shot at these types of schools given you keep your numerical grades solid. The last frontier of course, are the ultra selective schools like the ones you mentioned. A lot of people have already stated, and I will second the opinion that, indeed, this process is a crapshoot. In the world of college admissions, the idea of a “well rounded” candidate is being overshadowed by one that is focused and excels at a few things. At the end of the day its about depth not breadth, which lends to the advice that you should just do what you love and be fucking good at it. Show passion for what you do! To have a shot at these top schools, you will in a typical case need to first enter their GPA/Test score ranges (they list this stuff up on their admissions websites). After that, its all up to your other credentials. You will most likely need every one of those criterias to be in at least decent shape compared to most applicants to have a shot. Most people applying will be just as worried as you, and there are really few ways to guarantee your admissions at the HYPSM level schools. The only people with really high chances are those that have “hooks”. Since you are young, you still have a lot of time to perhaps attempt at for lack of a better term, these academic feats of strength. Its not that some extracurriculars are better than others per se, but a few of them are just so prestigious that they really turn heads of adcoms: http://amc.maa.org/ - The AMC is one of the top competitions for mathematics for high schoolers, and is one of the ways to qualify for the USA math olympiad. Reaching the USAMO qualification level (or the sciences, that is USA Physics, USA Bio) is generally perceived as a admissions hook. http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/education/competitions/science-talent-search.html The intel science competition is a great experience for science people if you have the opportunity to participate. Reaching the semi-finals level or higher is often seen as an admissions hook. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_Science_Institute RSI is a summer camp held at MIT. One of the 2 super prestigious summer camps for I believe the summer before senior year. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telluride_Association_Summer_Program TASP is like the RSI for people who do liberal arts stuff rather than math/science. This is definitely not a comprehensive list, its just some of the more common ones (more is extremely relative here). There are some other hooks that don’t even require any effort, like you having the professors of one of those schools as parents, have donated a lot of money to their alumni foundations, or perhaps the most frustrating one of all for many people and most common hook, URM status (being of African American, Hispanic, or Native American descent). This all being said, there is NO WAY you need any of this to get into one of the top schools. I can attest from personal experience and research that 90% of the people at the best schools in the nation do not have any of these (not including the URM thing, of course). It’s just good to know what opportunities are out there at your age. In conclusion the best you can do is work hard to pursue your interests while finding a school that is not only “prestigious” but also a good fit for the next four years after high school for you. Talk to your smart friends and your high school college counselor for advice. Dream big but know that if you don’t get into Harvard or Princeton its really not that big of a deal; in the real world few people actually care about your undergrad institution and few careers actually require high powered degrees. | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On December 14 2012 11:47 Praetorial wrote: Not really. The community is very insular and the school never announces our winning, ever. Insular it may be, but the amount of people who have done some sort of public speaking/debate/MUN/mock trial/etc is quite high where I am (obviously, that's not a fair example of all universities, but that's where my opinion's coming from). | ||
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applepielon
United States78 Posts
Also, maybe consider doing summer classes etc. at a college. Looks good to do well in high school classes, looks better to do well in college classes  On December 14 2012 13:14 Sabu113 wrote: He had an incredible experience because he ...made his own experience. Yeah, probably the most important thing if you want to go to Harvard etc. Don't get me wrong, I love Harvard, but it will do nothing to hold your hand or guide you, which is a pretty important and very underrated thing. | ||
]343[
United States10328 Posts
(1)* Spending hours and hours on Teamliquid every day (for most people) isn't going to help you get things done. (2)* Find something you're passionate about (yeah, cliche, I know), and get really really good at it. (Good to see you do extemp... work hard at it! :D) (2a)* If you can't get really really good at it, work your butt off and become pretty good at a lot of things instead. (3)* Make friends with people in high places (e.g. teachers) who can vouch for you. (4)* Learn how to communicate effectively. (5) Get good grades and test scores. The points marked * will probably help you outside of the college admissions process as well (!) Finally, going to college is important and all, but if you don't get in somewhere, life isn't over! Life is what you make of it. On December 14 2012 13:51 Panya wrote: http://amc.maa.org/ - The AMC is one of the top competitions for mathematics for high schoolers, and is one of the ways to qualify for the USA math olympiad. Reaching the USAMO qualification level (or the sciences, that is USA Physics, USA Bio) is generally perceived as a admissions hook. http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/education/competitions/science-talent-search.html The intel science competition is a great experience for science people if you have the opportunity to participate. Reaching the semi-finals level or higher is often seen as an admissions hook. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_Science_Institute RSI is a summer camp held at MIT. One of the 2 super prestigious summer camps for I believe the summer before senior year. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telluride_Association_Summer_Program TASP is like the RSI for people who do liberal arts stuff rather than math/science. Olympiads: the big ones are math (USAMO), physics (USAPhO), chemistry (USNCO), biology (USABO), and computing (USACO). There are also some smaller ones, like the recently growing NACLO ("computational linguistics," but really just a bunch of vaguely language-related puzzles. It's very fun though; I recommend trying it!) Incidentally, I've learned over the past few years that Olympiad performance doesn't necessarily predict performance later on... so if you try these, don't get too caught up in them. In addition to Intel STS, big research competitions include the Siemens Competition and International Science and Engineering Fair (ISEF). Yes, RSI is for rising seniors. There are a few other prestigious programs like MITES (for minorities) and WTP (for women) held at MIT each summer, too. On December 14 2012 15:08 applepielon wrote: Yeah, probably the most important thing if you want to go to Harvard etc. Don't get me wrong, I love Harvard, but it will do nothing to hold your hand or guide you, which is a pretty important and very underrated thing. Really? Ivy League colleges are the most likely to "hold your hand" and prevent you from failing; see this article, for example. That's not to say they make sure you excel--though most who go to such places do very well--but it's basically unheard of to fail out of somewhere like Harvard. | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
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pebble444
Italy2503 Posts
So this type of criteria would apply say for 2 students with the exact same resume, grades etc. If your good, have good grades, seem promising, motivated, your one step ahead no matter your ethnicity. At least it should be like this. | ||
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Recognizable
Netherlands1552 Posts
Founder of Genocide Awareness Club I found this funny Everytime I read something about college applications in the US. I'm so fucking happy I don't live in the US. But students who get into elite schools are precisely the ones who have best learned to work within the system, so it’s almost impossible for them to see outside it, to see that it’s even there. Long before they got to college, they turned themselves into world-class hoop-jumpers and teacher-pleasers, getting A’s in every class no matter how boring they found the teacher or how pointless the subject, racking up eight or 10 extracurricular activities no matter what else they wanted to do with their time From the article. This phenomenon I've observed as well. I really don't understand why some kids in my class go to such lengths to please teachers and the like. I've basically refused to go to half my classes because they are pointless. Nobody really understands me altough they agree with my proposition, shouldn't you always go to class? If I ask them: "Why go to a class where I am not learning anything" The only answer I get is: "Because that's what you are supposed to do" I actually got problems a couple of weeks ago, because obviously teachers started to notice I wasn't there most of time. Not a lot tho, they probably glanced at my recent exam grades and forgot about it. On another note. It seems to me the US education fails heavily when it comes to giving chances to people who are poorer and/or less bright. Whilst the education in my country fails at letting kids excell. | ||
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SlayerS_BoxxY
United States64 Posts
Not everyone can go to Harvard. Not everyone can go to MIT. But what you get out of college will have more to do with what you put into it than where you do it. As for college admissions, there will always be some arbitrariness to the process. You will be rejected from places you thought you were a shoe-in, and you may be accepted at places you thought you had no shot at. This is particularly true at private institutions, where ultimately they can do whatever they want in terms of who they accept. So don't worry about it too much and don't spend too much time strategizing and taking SAT prep classes and joining tons of clubs just for the sake of your applications. That game is not worth your time. Focus on the actual content of your education and you will not go wrong. | ||
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]343[
United States10328 Posts
On December 15 2012 04:14 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Siemens and ISEF and stuff are like impossible to win unless you're very well connected already =o huh, I'm not sure what this means? If by "well-connected," you mean "have the initiative and luck to find a good professor to work with" and "worked your butt off," I'd probably believe you... | ||
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ampson
United States2355 Posts
So study hard hard hard for standardized tests. If the places you are interested in take super-scores, it is a good idea to just bootcamp what you have trouble with and study for the other subjects on a later test. Like if you have trouble with math just study SAT math non-stop and ace it on one test, then ignore it on the next and take the super-score. Good luck friend. | ||
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SlayerS_BoxxY
United States64 Posts
On December 15 2012 07:56 ampson wrote: Friend, the biggest tip that I have for you is to study for the SAT/ACT like your life depends on it (preferably the SAT, you can break it down to a science more easily). No matter how much people diss standardized tests, if they aren't above a certain level, top tier universities will not even look at you. Safety schools will take you no matter what, and a great amount of scholarships depend on them. As someone who is in the application process right now, I personally do not have excellent grades (around a 94/100 GPA, top 10% of class but not valedictorian/salutatorian) but I destroyed that test and like to think I'm competitive for the top places. The score got me into Tulane, my backup, with a half-tuition scholarship. So study hard hard hard for standardized tests. If the places you are interested in take super-scores, it is a good idea to just bootcamp what you have trouble with and study for the other subjects on a later test. Like if you have trouble with math just study SAT math non-stop and ace it on one test, then ignore it on the next and take the super-score. Good luck friend. Some prep is good, but when they say the test is designed to not be "prepable" they really mean that. If you learned your math and english well in high school and you are calm and confident about test taking, you will do well. If you didn't learn your math and english well, then you might have a tough time getting into top tier schools anyway due to related issues. So what about the calm and confident part? This you can maybe work on. Confidence, time management, and focus are key. You can get this simply by doing whole practice tests. Familiarity with the structure and format of an exam makes a massive difference in your performance. Yes, brush up on your math, but don't treat this as if you are going to learn all the skills necessary for getting a good SAT score by prepping for the test (if you don't have the skills now, its already too late to be in the perfect-score range). Don't take an SAT prep class. You can get the same benefit by studying on your own. | ||
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jpak
United States5045 Posts
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]343[
United States10328 Posts
On December 15 2012 09:55 jpak wrote: Whatever you do, please try to graduate with as little debt as possible, if at all. I'd rather go to on scholarship/grant at a safety school and come out debt free than go to Ivy and end up with a 6-figure debt on my back. ha, oops... | ||
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ForgottenMemory
United States13 Posts
Also to be clear, it is asian males that have it tough (impossible). It's not bad as an asian female applying for technical majors (CS, EE, ..). Asian female standard 4.0 / 2300+ / good APs is enough. There can only be so many USAMO/MOP/USACO/IOI/USAPhO/IPhO people = ). | ||
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