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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On November 26 2012 11:38 Sinensis wrote: She's talking about getting a job. Who do you know that's hiring self taught programmers with no degrees, certifications, or experience in the field? I'm in Silicon Valley and there are plenty of examples of coders w/ no degrees. | ||
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Sinensis
United States2513 Posts
On November 26 2012 12:44 thedeadhaji wrote: I'm in Silicon Valley and there are plenty of examples of coders w/ no degrees. Yes and the point is we're talking about someone in North Carolina with a degree in legal studies. Your advice to her was "go be a software | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
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Chill
Calgary25963 Posts
On November 26 2012 12:35 Sinensis wrote: I don't think you know very much about what you're talking about, so maybe you shouldn't be giving advice. Seriously. | ||
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Bunn
Estonia934 Posts
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Rimstalker
Germany734 Posts
On November 26 2012 11:38 Sinensis wrote: She's talking about getting a job. Who do you know that's hiring self taught programmers with no degrees, certifications, or experience in the field? 'my' company does hire guys like that, all you need to do is to be able to answer some slightly difficult questions from our devs. We even actively sponsor local ruby conferences and seek out contributers to open-source projects we use on our servers. | ||
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On November 26 2012 12:45 Sinensis wrote: Yes and the point is we're talking about someone in North Carolina with a degree in legal studies. Your advice to her was "go be a software Considering there are millions of people in this country who have sent hundreds of job applications to no avail, hunkering down to obtain skills that are in high demand all over the country is something that is at least worth looking into. If there are literally no jobs available for her current skillset, then she's either going to have to exit the workforce or pick up new skills. If that happens, then software is one of the best areas to look into for her. If it doesn't work out, too bad, but it's foolish to dismiss it right off the bat given our current unemployment rate. Modern sw development imo is a more "artful" discipline than a "scientific" one, and its barriers to entry has gone down dramatically over the last 20 years for those without a technical background. Like Rimstalker said, there are companies that are looking to pick up junior developers with little to no experience but with good potential and the right attitude and mentoring them, rather than looking to cold hire superstars. I have seen a job advert that literally said "we are looking for mediocre developers" to mentor and grow. Why are you focusing on the ways in which this can't work, instead of the many ways that it can? edit: and there are plenty of small - mid sized SW companies in the NC research triangle area. Some of my friends work there -_-. NC is probably one of the most tech-friendly states in that area of the country. | ||
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Sinensis
United States2513 Posts
On November 26 2012 14:31 thedeadhaji wrote: Considering there are millions of people in this country who have sent hundreds of job applications to no avail, hunkering down to obtain skills that are in high demand all over the country is something that is at least worth looking into. If there are literally no jobs available for her current skillset, then she's either going to have to exit the workforce or pick up new skills. If that happens, then software is one of the best areas to look into for her. If it doesn't work out, too bad, but it's foolish to dismiss it right off the bat given our current unemployment rate. Modern sw development imo is a more "artful" discipline than a "scientific" one, and its barriers to entry has gone down dramatically over the last 20 years for those without a technical background. Like Rimstalker said, there are companies that are looking to pick up junior developers with little to no experience but with good potential and the right attitude and mentoring them, rather than looking to cold hire superstars. I have seen a job advert that literally said "we are looking for mediocre developers" to mentor and grow. Why are you focusing on the ways in which this can't work, instead of the many ways that it can? edit: and there are plenty of small - mid sized SW companies in the NC research triangle area. Some of my friends work there -_-. NC is probably one of the most tech-friendly states in that area of the country. This is what happened: You saw in the sidebar "Jobs for introverts..." you clicked it, scrolled to the bottom the the page without reading a thing, and in the post box you wrote "SW engineer?" The only person you thought about the entire time was yourself. This is a stupid suggestion because the person you're advising already has field and it isn't tech related what so ever. The OP even specifically said he didn't want yahoo's top 10 jobs for introverts. Imagine yourself posting this blog for your girlfriend. Are you really going to tell her she should consider software engineering? Also I don't know about Silicon Valley, but I live on the East Coast and entry level programming work is -not- easy to come by. Even if it's your field and you have a relevant degree. Every job I've seen requires, at minimum, several years of experience AND good, relevant, references. | ||
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
The main difference between our perspectives is that you are speaking from the supply side (OP's GF) and I am speaking from the demand side (what the labor market currently is in shortage of). If OP's gf can find something related to her past experience, then great! But keep in mind that in that case, she has defied huge odds in doing so. Youth unemployment in this country is hovering around 20% for a reason. If she is unable to find something in her current domain (and millions of people cannot), then you have to start looking at things from the demand side. An acquaintance who was laid off from manufacturing and is training to enter nursing comes to mind. If this need arises (and there is a decent chance that it will), then I still stand by my position that SW is something she should consider. As mentioned earlier, people grossly overestimate the hurdles to programming. There are many many many examples of people picking up the skills from scratch, with no previous technical experience (just one of many examples I have seen: http://tech.yipit.com/2012/08/21/how-i-taught-myself-to-code-in-8-weeks/). OP says she is introverted, and for introverts, interacting with people is a serious mental and even physical burden. Then why not at least consider freelance frontend development and things of that nature? If she doesn't enjoy it, then dump it. But there's a chance that she might be captivated by it, and it's ridiculous to dismiss it without even laying an eye on a beginner's course at Coursera/Udacity/Codeacademy. You say that I'm only thinking of myself, but in fact, you are only thinking of yourself when you assume that OP's GF cannot possibly handle programming and that my words are ill advised. Do you know her personally? Do you know that she has already considered coding before and absolutely detests it? You're speaking from your assumptions of her limitations, and it bothers me that you feel that my belief in her possible potential is misguided. My words may in fact be ill advised, but that's for OP and OP's GF to decide, not you. | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4781 Posts
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On November 26 2012 10:46 The_Templar wrote: Playing starcraft has nothing to do with your personality... There are all sorts of different personalities in starcraft players. It was a joke. Dota and League are teamgames, so if she's introverted, SC2 fits better since it's 1v1.... | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On November 26 2012 15:07 Sinensis wrote: Also I don't know about Silicon Valley, but I live on the East Coast and entry level programming work is -not- easy to come by. Even if it's your field and you have a relevant degree. Every job I've seen requires, at minimum, several years of experience AND good, relevant, references. That's really surprising, there's so many IT jobs everywhere else. Compared to most other forms of engineering, programming is just such a huge market. | ||
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GnarlyArbitrage
575 Posts
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BrTarolg
United Kingdom3574 Posts
On November 26 2012 16:40 DigiGnar wrote: Instead of getting a job, why not try the financial markets? Really not a good idea Pretty much the equivalent of telling someone with no experience to deposit 40k and go pro in poker Not impossible, but not exactly a stable job ---- What i would say is that you should see introversion as an asset and talent, and not something you have to "fix" or "get around" By far the most important thing is she finds something she is *interested* in. Just because people are introverted doesn't mean that they don't want to interact with other people, often it's the complete opposite. It's the kind and quality of interaction that is important I have no idea what kind of interests your girlfriend has. Maybe she could be into teaching, maybe she should really be into programming, maybe she is happy being a secretary or a receptionist. Maybe she loves looking after animals or something, who knows? The thing is, the reason why people suggest programming is not because programming is a good idea (it probably isn't), but because there are examples of introverts who discovered and fell in LOVE with programming, and garnered so much interest for it they turned it into their job. These guys live and breathe programming because they love it so much, and as a result nobody else in the field can match their creativity, insight and ingenuity on the topic You should see introversion as an asset that allows her to really focus and excel at something she becomes interested in, not a liability That's all i can really say | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
On November 26 2012 16:40 DigiGnar wrote: Instead of getting a job, why not try the financial markets? lol looking for fresh blood? | ||
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GnarlyArbitrage
575 Posts
On November 26 2012 16:51 BrTarolg wrote: Really not a good idea Pretty much the equivalent of telling someone with no experience to deposit 40k and go pro in poker Not impossible, but not exactly a stable job You can deposit like $50 and be able to trade with some platforms. Granted, if you adopt a trading style that doesn't result in extreme profits, you won't be able to live off that equity for a while. However, if you did have a part-time job, you can compound this equity further, if you are already compounding like any smart person would do, and then really start to get somewhere. That's if you maintain steady profits. No degeneracy involved. | ||
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TylerThaCreator
United States906 Posts
On November 26 2012 17:15 DigiGnar wrote: You can deposit like $50 and be able to trade with some platforms. Granted, if you adopt a trading style that doesn't result in extreme profits, you won't be able to live off that equity for a while. However, if you did have a part-time job, you can compound this equity further, if you are already compounding like any smart person would do, and then really start to get somewhere. That's if you maintain steady profits. No degeneracy involved. What kind of stable life could you live like this? Why not just cut the middle man and just go straight to gambling... | ||
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BrTarolg
United Kingdom3574 Posts
On November 26 2012 17:15 DigiGnar wrote: You can deposit like $50 and be able to trade with some platforms. Granted, if you adopt a trading style that doesn't result in extreme profits, you won't be able to live off that equity for a while. However, if you did have a part-time job, you can compound this equity further, if you are already compounding like any smart person would do, and then really start to get somewhere. That's if you maintain steady profits. No degeneracy involved. You gotta be joking Not only does the average person have absolutely no edge, but you have to pay up an absolutely ridiculous spread. Either invest because you have a reason to (protection of assets, wealth etc. for example) or don't bother. The world of prop trading is so limited and small it's almost impossible to compete I've had to explain this countless times, but your edge is usually about the same as playing the roulette wheel | ||
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GnarlyArbitrage
575 Posts
On November 26 2012 18:17 BrTarolg wrote: You gotta be joking Not only does the average person have absolutely no edge, but you have to pay up an absolutely ridiculous spread. Either invest because you have a reason to (protection of assets, wealth etc. for example) or don't bother. The world of prop trading is so limited and small it's almost impossible to compete I've had to explain this countless times, but your edge is usually about the same as playing the roulette wheel Do you even trade? My average spread is $.20. Yes, that's outrageous. I could be getting less than $.1, but I'm not leveled up enough for that type of account. Or, 2 pips. You'll need to explain just one more time. Prop trading is limited, LOL. How so? | ||
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C[h]ili
Germany167 Posts
What she seems to search is some kind of backoffice job that is moderatly paid, but also moderatly challenging? Nothing extravagant. It would not be hard to suggest a couple of things in Germany, but I guess we have different business cultures anyways. Maybe she could somehow find an administrative job at the military? If she has an excellent command of English, maybe she could offer language editing in English language as a freelancer? At my job, we often give such tasks to an American freelancer for 15$/h, which, of course, is not much. Communication with her is via Email only. | ||
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