• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 17:41
CEST 23:41
KST 06:41
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview1[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris34Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!13Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195
StarCraft 2
General
Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview BoxeR's Wings Episode 2 - Fan Translation Greatest Players of All Time: 2025 Update A Eulogy for the Six Pool #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time
Tourneys
LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) Esports World Cup 2025
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Post ASL20 Ro24 discussion. Easiest luckies way to get out of Asl groups BW General Discussion No Rain in ASL20?
Tourneys
[IPSL] CSLAN Review and CSLPRO Reimagined! [ASL20] Ro24 Group F [ASL20] Ro24 Group E [ASL20] Ro24 Group D
Strategy
Muta micro map competition Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Mechabellum Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The year 2050
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s) Gtx660 graphics card replacement
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
How Culture and Conflict Imp…
TrAiDoS
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1116 users

BWC and the best player in the world

Blogs > Zealously
Post a Reply
Zealously
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
East Gorteau22261 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-19 20:46:42
November 19 2012 20:46 GMT
#1
Reading the last 15-or-so pages of the WCS Finals Day 2 thread, a lot of people seem to raise concerns that the winner of the World Finals (SPOILERSSNAPEKILLSDUMBLEDORE: It's Parting) is not actually the legitimate best player in the world. Some say that's still Mvp, or Life, or Leenock, or any other top player.
What they seem to forget - or not realise, is that, while BWC was the World Championship, it was not quite to designed to crown the "Best player in the world".
To quote myself:

On November 19 2012 06:09 Zealously wrote:
I think the problem is that people think of BWC as a standalone event while it in fact was not - WCS Sweden, Germany, France, Korea, Europe, Asia (and so on) were all stepping stones for the players to get to BWC, and it is easy to argue that some of those events (particularly WCS Korea and Asia) were in fact tougher than BWC itself.
The "best players" (Mvp and MC excluded, okay) all tried to get to BWC, but most didn't make it. Is that good or bad for the end result? Most seem to think the distinct lack of Mvp and co. made BWC less legit. To me, it was more of a testament to how insanely hard it is to stay at the top of the scene.


And I think it's as simple as that. The scene, with the Korean scene largely separated from the foreign scene, is not built around finding a "Best player in the world". It's all subjective, with different people having different views - players, casters and fans all disagree with each other on who is the best player in the world. The thing is, it's hard to decide who is the "Best player" as long as that person is not something similar to a bonjwa, dominating dozens of events, because players - and I mean the best ones, prioritize differently. Taeja, for example, loves to play in the most foreign events he can, whereas Nestea (who might not be as relevant right now, but the point stands) prefers to remain in Korea and diligently prepare for his matches.

What I'm trying to say is that, with a separated scene, we can never really determine who is really "the best".
Obviously Koreans go to foreign events, but the players on teams with lesser funds or those not interested in traveling because they don't handle jet lag well / have exclusive deals as well as the lesser known players don't. This doesn't really go both ways, though - we rarely see foreigners in GSTL or Code A, let alone Code S.
So, what about WCS?

Well, I liked the idea of Nationals, Continentals and then the World Finals - I think the idea holds a lot of potential. Especially with the KeSPA players participating in Korea, we were allowed to see the entirety of the Korean scene duke it out against each other for the sought after spots at WCS Asia; and short of Mvp and MC who both forfeited their spots, everyone tried their best.
I don't think anyone discredits Parting's road to his championship (He went through sC, Alive, Curious three times, Seed, Macsed, RorO, two different Hero's, Socke, Illusion, Scarlett, Suppy, Sen and finally Creator), but Partings (relative) lack of results up to the BWC seems to make people reluctant to call him "The best player in the world".

Honestly, I agree. The point of BWC and the entire WCS was never necessarily to crown a "best player in the world" given how, as I mentioned, subjective the term is, but to crown a World Champion. There is a significant difference.
In swimming, for example - at the 2008 Olympics, few would dispute that Michael Phelps was the world's best swimmer by far. If he had lost a race, or three, it would still be hard to argue that he was not the best in the world.

The point is, you don't need a World Championship to your name to be crowned the best in the world, just as having the title "World Champion" to your name does not make you the undisputable best player. Some scenes may be built around the World Championship meaning everything, but Starcraft in general is not. Some will tell you IPL5 will decide who is the best player in the world, but what if Shuttle wins it, and Innovation wins GSL? What then?


In conclusion

I think that, aside from hyping up your favorite player and just wanting to argue with random, faceless individuals on the internet, trying to decide who is the best player in this point is pointless. People will disagree and say that you're stupid for thinking Leenock is better than Life, or that Mvp is not the best player in the world, but that doesn't matter. At this point, with the meta still rather volatile and the game not even being finalized yet (keep in mind we have two expansions and a gazillion patches coming up), there will never be a consensus.
World Champion or not.

*****
AdministratorBreak the chains
rainfable
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States171 Posts
November 19 2012 22:00 GMT
#2
i really don't think we can ever define a specific -best player- in the entire -world- .. everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, everyone has their good and bad days. just because someone does bad in one tournament doesn't necessarily mean they won't win the next, and just because someone beats the champion of something doesn't mean they're better than everyone else that played in it. stuff is really situational imo. n_n;
{♔} eri (ノ◕ヮ◕)ノ*:・゚✧   ⋆ my life for aiur!
Zealously
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
East Gorteau22261 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-19 22:05:55
November 19 2012 22:04 GMT
#3
On November 20 2012 07:00 rainfable wrote:
i really don't think we can ever define a specific -best player- in the entire -world- .. everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, everyone has their good and bad days. just because someone does bad in one tournament doesn't necessarily mean they won't win the next, and just because someone beats the champion of something doesn't mean they're better than everyone else that played in it. stuff is really situational imo. n_n;


Exactly. People insist on labeling people "The best" and "Top 3" etc. but it's all very subjective, what with strong strong/weak matchups and so on, and rather pointless ^^
AdministratorBreak the chains
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 49m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nathanias 102
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 2019
Shuttle 336
EffOrt 121
ZZZero.O 53
NaDa 13
Dota 2
syndereN301
capcasts102
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K395
Foxcn228
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox215
Chillindude28
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu476
Other Games
tarik_tv24657
gofns14380
FrodaN2264
Grubby1938
summit1g1919
fl0m1158
RotterdaM442
KnowMe293
C9.Mang0114
ViBE41
Mew2King38
ProTech5
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1135
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 22 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta95
• StrangeGG 38
• LUISG 35
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 25
• FirePhoenix2
• iopq 1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21530
League of Legends
• Doublelift2723
Counter-Strike
• imaqtpie876
• Shiphtur145
Other Games
• Scarra617
• WagamamaTV232
Upcoming Events
Code For Giants Cup
49m
SC Evo League
14h 19m
TaeJa vs Cure
Rogue vs threepoint
ByuN vs Creator
MaNa vs Classic
Maestros of the Game
18h 19m
ShoWTimE vs Cham
GuMiho vs Ryung
Zoun vs Spirit
Rogue vs MaNa
[BSL 2025] Weekly
20h 19m
SC Evo League
1d 14h
Maestros of the Game
1d 18h
SHIN vs Creator
Astrea vs Lambo
Bunny vs SKillous
HeRoMaRinE vs TriGGeR
BSL Team Wars
1d 21h
Team Bonyth vs Team Sziky
BSL Team Wars
1d 21h
Team Dewalt vs Team Sziky
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
PiGosaur Monday
4 days
LiuLi Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Maru vs SHIN
MaNa vs MaxPax
RSL Revival
6 days
Reynor vs Astrea
Classic vs sOs
BSL Team Wars
6 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Dewalt
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
WardiTV Summer 2025
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
Acropolis #4 - TS1
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
Maestros of the Game
EC S1
Sisters' Call Cup
Skyesports Masters 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.