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I’ve been toying with the idea of using my blog to share build order skeletons for a few weeks now, but haven’t found a build interesting enough to talk about until I saw all the recent discussion about Parting’s immortal sentry all-in. After all-killing LG-IM in the GSTL, he gave an awesome interview that was full of confidence and personality – “In practice matches, I've performed around 70 Immortal timing attacks, and I have never seen anyone block one. There are no Zergs who can defend against my Immortal rush in Wings of Liberty." That quote led me to research this build in more depth, and after seeing an excellent post on the “All Things Protoss” subreddit, I decided to start learning the build and work on mastering more aggressive PvZ builds.
Build order skeleton:
+ Show Spoiler +Safer and more recent variant:
Thanks to TL-user oOOoOphidian for sending me this:
"Here are the most recent timings on his build. They're mostly the same as they were in September, but the small changes seem to help, especially the opener. The timings of the opener allow you to be completely safe against 14 pool, which the old opener did not (especially with Forge in main).
16 Nexus, Forge
17 Pylon, Gateway, Cannon
19 2x Gas
24 Core
30 Pylon
32 Stalker (Chrono once), Warp Gate
34 Robo (5:36), Gas
Pylon, Sentry, +1 Attack, Pylon (at main ramp)
Immortal, 3x Gateway (at main ramp), Sentry
Immortal, 4th Gas, 2x Gate, Sentry
(wg finish 8:00)
Warp in 2 Sentries
Push at 8:50 with 7 Sentry, 3 Immortal, 1 Stalker to set up a single proxy pylon
Rally warp prism and make 7th Gate
Wall off natural with 2 more pylons, wall off rest of main with 1 more pylon
Warp in 2 Sentries and 2 Zealots as you move out."
Greediest variant for maximum strength:
Thanks to Reddit user pandazrule93 for taking the time to write this up from a Parting VoD:
9 Pylon (in main)
Chronoboost probes 3 times
17 Nexus
17 Forge in main
17 Pylon at nat
17 Resume probe production
18 Gate at nat
18/19 Cannon at nat
20 Double gas in main
23 Pylon at nat
24 Cybernetics core @ gateway 100% complete
26 Research +1 ground weapons
30 Research warpgate @ cybernetics core 100% complete
30 Stalker (optional chronoboost on it)
36 Robotics facility
36 1st gas at nat
36 Pylon - place this for partial wall-off at the top of your main ramp
@100 gas start sentry
44 Add 2 gates
46 Build immortal + Chronoboost it
54 2nd gas at nat
54 Add 1 gate
60 Add 3 gates
Notes:
Stop producing probes at full saturation (44)
Go up to 3 immortals
Push out at 8:50 with 3 immortals, 1 stalker, 1 zealot, 7 sentries
Warp prism and observer after 3rd immortal
Wall-off your natural (and main) as push leaves
Hit at 10:00 - go straight for the Zerg's natural, don't waste time attacking his 3rd base (this lets you forcefield his ramp to isolate reinforcements if you get into position as well)
All chronoboost on probes and then immortals. Your robotics facility should never stop being chronoboosted once the first immortal is started.
Parting positions his stalker to deny overlord scouts, so don't keep it out on the map for very long
Tips / Tricks / Thoughts:
+ Show Spoiler +Here are some tips and tricks posted by Reddit user bearrosaurus (some slight paraphrasing on my part):
- Parting goes Nexus first, Forge in his main base, and no scouting until the 18 gateway to max his mining. All the scout does is look for the hatch building at the third, then it goes back home to mine.*
- No +1 armor. It looks like all the chronoboosts are on probes, and then on the robo nonstop.
- His stalker is placed to deny the overlord scout at 7 min.
- Probes cut when the first Immortal finishes (44 probes).
*RemarK note: on ladder, I would be scared of not scouting for so long versus a Zerg player, so if you aren't comfortable with it, feel free to 9 scout or build a blind 13 Forge and scout with the probe that builds the Forge - the build will still work!
One thought / comment I have on this build is that its effectiveness is directly correlated to how fast you can push out with it – if you aren’t succeeding with it, make sure that you are pushing out with the same amount of units at the same time that Parting does.
VoDs:
+ Show Spoiler +
Replays + Analysis:
+ Show Spoiler +RemarK vs Swarm - this replay was after I spent some time practicing the build versus my teammates and shows much better execution on the macro side than the other replays I have here. Disclaimer: the replays vs Dreamizer and Hawk are only my 2nd and 3rd time executing the build ever - they are NOT an example of a perfect or ever close to perfect level of execution of the build. The VoDs will be more helpful for learning the exact build, the replays are here simply to chronicle my own experiences with this build. RemarK vs MYiDreamizer – he played very interestingly. His response to this build was cutting lair + evo chamber, and never droning too hard. If I had read the situation properly, I could have just backed off after killing drones at his 3rd base and been ahead in both tech and economy. However, this was only my 2nd time trying the build and I overcommitted to aggression and lost the game. Also, my push was hitting later than it should so I believe just executing Parting’s build properly would have translated to a fairly straightforward win as well. RemarK vs QuanticHawk– I’m not sure if Hawk misread my build or just messed up his control by letting me get into a deadly position with my units (especially sentries), but this game could been a lot closer if he had more units and better positioning. He was going for a very ling-heavy defense, but could not directly engage my army when I first moved out and his attempt to get the lings past my wall was ineffective. This game I moved out faster than the first game versus Dreamizer, but I still need to improve things like preemptively placing my gateways to wall of at my main ramp and moving my army across the map in a tight ball formation.
Final Notes:
Given that this post is much shorter on detail and advice than any of my formal guides plus includes lots of citations from others, I decided to post it here under the format of a discussion rather than as a guide in the Strategy forum. I’ll continue practicing the build over the next few days, and update this post with more replays + analysis. Also, if anyone knows of more VoDs of this build, please post here or PM me so that I can add them to this post. I hope some of you join me in this conversation and post your results / replays with this build here for further discussion!
About Me:
+ Show Spoiler +I'm Matt "RemarK" Kramer, a grandmaster Protoss on the NA server. I come from an FPS background (competitive Halo player for 5+ years), and I switched to SC2 starting December 2010. I currently play for Frost eSports. You can learn more about me in my Stream hub thread here on TeamLiquid, or by checking out my stream and Twitter (@remarkiwa).
 
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Good skeleton, but it's the WonWonWon.
Alternatively, you could call it the ZERGBONGER~
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What is the reaction to a 6/10 pool?
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On October 30 2012 09:50 LgNkarmy wrote:
What is the reaction to a 6/10 pool?
I play more standard and either 9-scout or blind 13-forge. I think he gets away with not scouting like that due to Code S metagame.
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Why is this in blogs? i realize that it is not detailed enough for the strategy section, but I don't know if blogs is the best place for this. Though, very nice B-O and style, I love parting  . Also all parting does to react to a 6 pool is WIN.
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All the scout does is look for the hatch building at the third, then it goes back home to mine
Don't you think this is a little unsafe? Seeing a hatchery doesn't mean you're safe.
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On October 30 2012 11:11 Oboeman wrote:Show nested quote +All the scout does is look for the hatch building at the third, then it goes back home to mine Don't you think this is a little unsafe? Seeing a hatchery doesn't mean you're safe.
Hmm well, like I said, I don't follow that part of the build (I use standard scouting times, no-scout until 18 + nexus first is definitely greedy) but I think if you've scouted a 3rd base go down, the only thing you have to worry about is a slow zergling all-in which can be defended just by having a probe at your wall plugging the hole.
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Why this is only a blog...really could be turned into a guide
And please do more of these in the future if you can
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On October 30 2012 11:58 Whatson wrote:Why this is only a blog...really could be turned into a guide And please do more of these in the future if you can
I wasn't comfortable posting it as a guide because:
1) I have kinda high standards for myself when I write guides, as far as including lots of information, advice on how to respond to every situation, and updating them periodically and answering the questions people. I didn't have the energy or motivation to turn this into a full-fledged guide, and I had just started using this build yesterday so I don't have the experience or understanding yet to talk about this strategy in Guide-worthy detail.
2) A sizable amount of this blog post includes content that was written by people I don't know on Reddit - I wasn't comfortable posting stuff I didn't write as a formal guide without their permission, and I wanted to make a fairly small write-up and just get this post online yesterday.
I might adapt it into a full-fledged guide after I have more understanding of the build and replays to share.
And yeah, I will be working on more content like this in the future. Both formal guides and smaller build order skeletons like this
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Italy12246 Posts
I could swear i've seen him go robo before +1 to get his immortals out asap and i thought that was why his pushes are so much faster.
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He has like 3 different variations
Spent countless of hours watching his WonWonWon build through like 7 vods.
He has one where he goes with just 2 immortals but most of his builds revolve around 3 immortals, etc etc
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I think in that game he went straight for the natural as a reaction to leenock going for the base trade situation.
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Thanks to Reddit user WonWonWon, there are now two more VoDs in the OP - they do not require GOM subscription as they are from WCS Asia!
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Thank you so much remark. Someone actually did a guide a few months back of Parting's immortal sentry all-in when he did it vs Ret at red bull battlegrounds but this build has been proven to be more powerful and advance. Thank you.
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Since the Parting v Roro vod is over 2 hours long, game one starts at 1:39:40 (may want to add to OP)
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On October 31 2012 12:39 QuantumChaos wrote:
Since the Parting v Roro vod is over 2 hours long, game one starts at 1:39:40 (may want to add to OP)
The link in the OP has the time stamp in it, so it should automatically take you to the right time. I'll put a note in the link though in case that doesn't work for people.
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Has he seriously never lost to a Zerg with this? I find that incredibly hard to believe. If he got the point where he straight up was never losing against another race, combined with his amazing PvT and good PvP he would be much more dominant than he currently is.
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On October 31 2012 15:39 Havik_ wrote:
Has he seriously never lost to a Zerg with this?
Maybe he only does it on maps that he knows it is strong on? Or he only follows through with build/attack if he sees zerg doing certain things? I don't think he meant that he blindly goes sentry immortal all-in every game no matter what.
Instead, he probably meant that every time he chooses to go sentry immortal all-in he wins.
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By making your first forge in your main, you are virtually guaranteeing that he will have lings in your base. Right? Or is there some way to prevent this?
-Cross
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Go to Scvods and look up Squirtle's pvz, I remember there being like 2 games where he did the same build (Vs Curious on Ohana is one)
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On October 30 2012 09:31 EtherealDeath wrote:
Good skeleton, but it's the WonWonWon.
Alternatively, you could call it the ZERGBONGER~
Usually I'm all skeptical about what build to learn, but these names...now I'm pretty sure this is the best build to learn
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On November 01 2012 00:31 meteorskunk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2012 09:31 EtherealDeath wrote:
Good skeleton, but it's the WonWonWon.
Alternatively, you could call it the ZERGBONGER~ Usually I'm all skeptical about what build to learn, but these names...now I'm pretty sure this is the best build to learn
Glad you approve.
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You didn't move out at 8:50 like how you were supposed to in either of the replays.
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On November 01 2012 12:32 SCRedditor wrote:
You didn't move out at 8:50 like how you were supposed to in either of the replays.
Yeah, I'm still bad at executing this build. Like I said in OP, those were my second and third times executing the build ever.
Edit: nvm, I forgot to mention that originally. Added a disclaimer, thanks.
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hahaha the wonwonwon? AWESOME! :D
Thanks for the share that sounds like a build bordering on unfairness though lol. I mean Parting is good, but 70 games undefeatable? Dayum. MUST BE THE SOUL hehe ^^
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oOOoOphidian sent me a message about this build and the version Parting used most recently:
"Here are the most recent timings on his build. They're mostly the same as they were in September, but the small changes seem to help, especially the opener. The timings of the opener allow you to be completely safe against 14 pool, which the old opener did not (especially with Forge in main).
16 Nexus, Forge
17 Pylon, Gateway, Cannon
19 2x Gas
24 Core
30 Pylon
32 Stalker (Chrono once), Warp Gate
34 Robo (5:36), Gas
Pylon, Sentry, +1 Attack, Pylon (at main ramp)
Immortal, 3x Gateway (at main ramp), Sentry
Immortal, 4th Gas, 2x Gate, Sentry
(wg finish 8:00)
Warp in 2 Sentries
Push at 8:50 with 7 Sentry, 3 Immortal, 1 Stalker to set up a single proxy pylon
Rally warp prism and make 7th Gate
Wall off natural with 2 more pylons, wall off rest of main with 1 more pylon
Warp in 2 Sentries and 2 Zealots as you move out.
Most recent GSL VoD of Parting doing this build"
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Italy12246 Posts
HA i knew parting went robo before +1 sometimes.
Also DAYUM 5.36 robo is stupidly fast lol.
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Thank you so much for this, it's exactly what I was looking for. I've recently switched to random and PvZ on some maps is TOUGH. Stoked to use this build ^^
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Hello
Ive been trying to execute this build and it doesnt seems to be worK. I cant seem to get a robo by 5:37 and i can barely move out before 9:00 .
I must be doing something wrong so cAn someone please post a replay demonstrating a perfect execution of this build(the more recent one.)
Many thanks.
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On November 03 2012 01:41 SuperBarnie2 wrote:
Hello
Ive been trying to execute this build and it doesnt seems to be worK. I cant seem to get a robo by 5:37 and i can barely move out before 9:00 .
I must be doing something wrong so cAn someone please post a replay demonstrating a perfect execution of this build(the more recent one.)
Many thanks.
You need to make sure you do your chronos well. Every mineral counts. Keep your nexus...es chronoed as much as you can before your robo is complete (Make sure you have one ready for the immortal though). Getting saturated quick is the best way to make sure you can move out at the right time.
And have soul.
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Why forge in the main base?
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On November 05 2012 07:35 yazoo wrote:
Why forge in the main base?
To save mining time, nets you about ~130 minerals more from what I've tested since you're mining with an extra probe for over a minute while still not having all your patches saturated. Basically if you put the forge in your main, it's almost "free" in concerns to the 2 base allin, helps the timing a lot actually.
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Wondering how to respond to mutalisk, they did not harass and instead mobbed me during the push. I tried to get stalkers up in time but they had already harassed. Should I be increasing the number of stalkers while decreasing sentries or cut out an immortal in favor of two stalks?
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Italy12246 Posts
The attack hits before a 3base build can have a significant mutalisk count in time with most variations of the build.
Against 2base muta, going immortals is silly in the first place.
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On November 06 2012 07:04 Nihilnovi wrote:To save mining time, nets you about ~130 minerals more from what I've tested since you're mining with an extra probe for over a minute while still not having all your patches saturated. Basically if you put the forge in your main, it's almost "free" in concerns to the 2 base allin, helps the timing a lot actually.
Thanks for your response.
If you put your 1rst pylon and forge in you natural you can send back your probe in your main, then you will waste only few seconds on mining. On the other side Zerg player dont know what build you are going to do.
If Zerg scout the forge in the main base , it indicates him that your are doing te immo/sentry all-in
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I think people are also forgetting that Partings build is preparing for a counter attack. Its the reason for the gateways at the main's ramp and its also the reason for the forge to be in the main. As long as the forge stays up he can keep building cannons and keep warping in units to his army.
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On November 07 2012 09:39 Kazkek wrote:
I think people are also forgetting that Partings build is preparing for a counter attack. Its the reason for the gateways at the main's ramp and its also the reason for the forge to be in the main. As long as the forge stays up he can keep building cannons and keep warping in units to his army.
Hmm ok he want to keep alive his forge in order to defend. I think it's the main reason...
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On November 02 2012 03:58 RemarK wrote:oOOoOphidian sent me a message about this build and the version Parting used most recently: "Here are the most recent timings on his build. They're mostly the same as they were in September, but the small changes seem to help, especially the opener. The timings of the opener allow you to be completely safe against 14 pool, which the old opener did not (especially with Forge in main). 16 Nexus, Forge 17 Pylon, Gateway, Cannon 19 2x Gas 24 Core 30 Pylon 32 Stalker (Chrono once), Warp Gate 34 Robo (5:36), Gas Pylon, Sentry, +1 Attack, Pylon (at main ramp) Immortal, 3x Gateway (at main ramp), Sentry Immortal, 4th Gas, 2x Gate, Sentry (wg finish 8:00) Warp in 2 Sentries Push at 8:50 with 7 Sentry, 3 Immortal, 1 Stalker to set up a single proxy pylon Rally warp prism and make 7th Gate Wall off natural with 2 more pylons, wall off rest of main with 1 more pylon Warp in 2 Sentries and 2 Zealots as you move out. Most recent GSL VoD of Parting doing this build"
Can someone post a replay of someone executing this build perfectly? Versus AI is ok. It just seems that when I do it, it doesn't seem possible to have the amount of units at that time.
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On November 08 2012 05:22 yazoo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2012 09:39 Kazkek wrote:
I think people are also forgetting that Partings build is preparing for a counter attack. Its the reason for the gateways at the main's ramp and its also the reason for the forge to be in the main. As long as the forge stays up he can keep building cannons and keep warping in units to his army. Hmm ok he want to keep alive his forge in order to defend. I think it's the main reason...
blind 13 forge in the main is to stop from early rushes such as early pools. lets him wall off and defend the main if needed then be in good enough condition to go hit his build even if its later.
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Here's a replay with better execution from the macro standpoint:
http://drop.sc/274317
I think I moved out pretty close to 8:50, and had the right number of units more or less.
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so i played that build successfully for a while now, but lately i'm encountering a lot of hydra-play against it and wasn't able to win against it because zealots and immortals don't seem to be effective against hydras even with good ff's if his creep-spread is good.
should one try to transition out of it into collosi on seeing hydras or is there a way to make the push work against them, too?
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I'm trying to get to diamond and I was wondering if this build could is viable at that level. Any thoughts?
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On January 27 2013 09:02 Kinon wrote:
I'm trying to get to diamond and I was wondering if this build could is viable at that level. Any thoughts?
I use this build almost exclusively playing against top diamond and low masters players, it's definitely still a very very strong all-in. And I find that most of the time I lose I can point out that it was my mistake doing something stupid (ex: not walling off my base after moving out, letting them get surround on me, wasting FFs in the middle of the map) rather than someone who actually "countered" the build with a straight up hard counter to the build.
And as for Hydras, I've lost to some people who go hydras, but for the most part it's not too hard to kill them as long as you hit as fast as possible. If you hit fast enough to either kill his 3rd (and he sacs it) or the majority of his army (if he engages) before a critical mass of hydras are actually out you can end up winning very handily. generally with hydras though, you want to FF behind them and run your zealots in to kill them like you would to a MMM ball. Stalkers are also quite good at this point because of FFs, since he can't really have range (I don't think...at least) you can still zone the hydras with FFs quite easily. Just make sure that if you go zealot heavy, don't waste them by making zerg favored FFs. This build is actually quite dependent on good FF and warp prism micro if your opponent can macro as well as you IMO, so if that's also something to keep in mind. Hydra ling can definitely give this build a run for its money though, but if you hit fast enough (if you're knocking on his 3rd at 10:00 or earlier) there shouldn't be enough hydras to stop you from killing his 3rd or even marching into his natural.
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Can this work in Hots guys?
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EDIT: Oh shit, this is the blog instead of the forum post he made afterwards, my bad. I'll just post this in the Zerg Help Me Thread instead. SORRY!
I decided to bump this thread rather than create my own...
Experimenting with ways to beat this style of immortal sentry allin, and so far I cannot find a way to beat the one that pushes out at 8:50.
Even with a 21 gas hydra style, like life does, my hydras still only pop around 9:00-9:10, and hydras popping out at that time are not enough to beat the push that is hitting your third/nat. It is especially deadly on 2P maps.
If the push hit at 10 I would have no problem crushing it every time but as of now I am losing hope. It just seems so fucking strong.
I have also experimented with a delayed third (27 supply) and fast double gas at 40, which still only gets my hydra den done at around 8:50-9:00 or so, which is not enough to hold the push considering that hydras will melt very quickly to any sort of fire.
A minute earlier changes EVERYTHING, as zerg doesn't even have a chance to drone to saturation before it hits. I'm not going to bother with roaches because from my experience you cannot possibly get enough to do damage to the push.
So far the only alternative I can think of are swarm hosts, and I'm not even sure about that. The few times I experimented with the hosts you have to sac your third in order to survive, which is not a position I want to be in.
Assuming my macro is very close to perfect it becomes more an issue of timings, and I am in dire need of help. Is there any sort of standard opener which can transition upon scout of fast double gas and chronoed immortals into an anti-immortal sentry build that hits right at 9:00 on a 2P map?
I do not want to rely on chance. I do not want to rely on roach ling, which at such a tender timing would itself rely on Protoss fucking up.
I am losing hope that it is possible to hold consistently.
And this is before you even factor in the possibility of a chronoed MC following the warp prism...
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EPT
