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Blogs > Gheed
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opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
October 22 2012 09:36 GMT
#41
Can we just agree to elect Gheed spokesman of the "community" and collectively shut up?

Seriously, Gheed, you are damn good at expressing good points.
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
Portvilla
Profile Joined October 2012
United States42 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-22 10:00:28
October 22 2012 10:00 GMT
#42

r/leageoflegends:
Oh my God, Tasteless is casting Korean IPL5 qualifiers.
I'm so God damn excited. I loved watching him cast throughout all of his SC days, so to see him showing some interest in League is just awesome.


r/starcraft:
We're fucked. Tasteless casting LoL on GOMTV right now.


Laughed so hard at this comparison... the SC2 scene seems to have quite the vitreous framework regarding outside imposers. I guess if you want to improve you have to live alongside your competitors and not throw these kinds of hissy fits when another game is shining brighter than yours
Have you ever wondered which hurts the most: saying something and wishing you had not, or saying nothing, and wishing you had?.....and yeah all that <3 Yoona + Tiffany shit bla bla bla
Yorbon
Profile Joined December 2011
Netherlands4272 Posts
October 22 2012 10:26 GMT
#43
To be honest i did not find the last stog that offensively negative (i only saw the first hour).

But i agree in general with your post. Needlessly negative comments just annoy me, not just against other games, but also towards other people or blizzard. I loved with tlo said in an interview during dreamhack.
Question: 'If you lose this, you might not qualify for dreamhack winter, right?'
TLO: 'Yes, but that's negative thinking.'

He's just refuting the question as important, because it has a negative source. I think people need to think more like this.
BadAim
Profile Joined September 2011
Norway879 Posts
October 22 2012 11:29 GMT
#44
5/5. Not just a reasonable man, but also an excellent worker rusher!
My esports soul belongs to: Boxer | White-Ra | Daigo Umehara | Nazgul | IceFrog
Takkara
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2503 Posts
October 22 2012 12:52 GMT
#45
Completely tangential to your post, but the Riot please thing is actually a meme from their forums:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2225093

Riot pretty regularly used to (not sure if they do much anymore as I don't browse the General Discussion boards in favor of the TL ones) promote memes as a way to engage with their playerbase. So any form of pls riot or riot pls is generally just a reference back to the start of the meme.
Gee gee gee gee baby baby baby
TheWorldToCome
Profile Joined January 2012
United States452 Posts
October 22 2012 12:57 GMT
#46
On October 22 2012 12:16 turdburgler wrote:
ye, remember when everyone was really negative about sc2:WoL and that caused no one to play it oh wait


If only that were a reality it might actually save sc2.
Starcraft 2 was designed to have a best race. You play the worst one.
arcHoniC
Profile Joined January 2011
United States141 Posts
October 22 2012 13:33 GMT
#47
I followed D3 really intensely for a while before released, the game came out, it was awesome but the community just continually freaked out about his and that. There were some 'problems' with the game I guess but holy hell the negativity on the forums was so horrible that it got me really demotivated to play the game. I actually had to stop going to the bnet forums because it was so depressing. The same thing seems to be happening with sc2 HOTS which is not a good sign. Let Blizzard be Blizzard, the pumped out a sick sequel to SC1 and they will kick ass with an expansion also.
'Let's lock the doors and make these guys play all night!' - Tasteless
radscorpion9
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada2252 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-22 14:38:16
October 22 2012 14:37 GMT
#48
Gheed definitely has a talent for clearly expressing his point of view. But it almost sounds like the community is more important than the game, in determining its popularity. I feel like all the complaining and negativity probably is over the top sometimes, but what would be more convincing - watching some youtube videos by Husky or any other commentator on youtube showing SC2 action, or reading what some people on a forum dedicated to SC2 have to say? I think if people find the game amazing they'll play it, and find people that share their passion.

But besides that I feel like the negativity is (mostly) all justified...in the end this is the kind of pressure that can lead to better games. I believe in part this is what led D3 to make the recent improvements that seemingly everyone is supportive of. Of course in some places people go over the top, but that's standard for any topic.

This is bound to happen when you have a hardcore community. People really really want things to work, and when it doesn't they're going to be upset. Asking that to change is unreasonable; I think it should just be accepted as part of the territory, and that Blizzard will need to step up their efforts if they want things to change...because there truly have been a lot of legitimate complaints that have taken far too long to address.

Asking people to not be so negative is virtually equivalent to asking people to not take the game so seriously, to lower the value of the game as being something for casual, once in a while entertainment. This is not the attitude that will create great games with high standards. Just be positive, say nice things about the game, would just create an aggravating atmosphere of pretending everything is okay when its clearly not.

Maybe I misunderstood you and you just mean "don't be *too* negative, but you can still be critical" - well in that case I agree completely . Constructive criticism should always be encouraged.
ParkwayDrive
Profile Joined July 2011
United States328 Posts
October 22 2012 14:55 GMT
#49
TL is about 85% an awful community. one of the worst ive been a part of. why? i dunno, but you cant change the people, they have to change themselves. let them kill their own game. ill still ladder in peace and break it up with a dota2 game.
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
October 22 2012 14:55 GMT
#50
I think the best point that was made here is the fact that SC2 players need to just sit back and ENJOY THEIR GAME.
BW didn't become a pro e-sport because Blizzard promoted the crap out of it back in 1999-2000, it became popular because people really enjoyed playing it, and as more people played more often eventually the skill level increased to a point where it just became the natural progression.

Whether or not the game you play is really popular or not, ultimately you should be playing because you enjoy it; it becoming a spectator sport is really just a bonus in my opinion.
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
Subversive
Profile Joined October 2009
Australia2229 Posts
October 22 2012 15:18 GMT
#51
I really don't find this community so bad. Maybe I just ignore most of the drama, but I doubt it. For the most part I still find people pleasant on ladder and reasonable here.

The TL community during BW was always very well mannered and mature and the amalgamation of SC2 and BW hasn't changed anything. It's the same nice people.
#1 Great fan ~ // Khan // FlaSh // JangBi // EffOrt //
ffreakk
Profile Joined September 2010
Singapore2155 Posts
October 22 2012 15:28 GMT
#52
I remember when the SC2 vs BW thing was on, SC2 guys were all about how SC2 is the greatest thing ever, and nostalgia-ridden BW followers should stfu and gtfo.

I quit following the Starcraft scene after Bisu beat Flash in SPL Grand Finals. Now i come back to see these guys, not having BW to attack anymore, turn around and whine about their own favourite game. Oof.. a little amusing
Look. Only Forward. See. Only Victory.
imre
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
France9263 Posts
October 22 2012 16:43 GMT
#53
On October 23 2012 00:18 Subversive wrote:
I really don't find this community so bad. Maybe I just ignore most of the drama, but I doubt it. For the most part I still find people pleasant on ladder and reasonable here.

The TL community during BW was always very well mannered and mature and the amalgamation of SC2 and BW hasn't changed anything. It's the same nice people.


Playing on the EU ladder is definitely an enjoyable experience, low amount of bm/obvious hacks and you get to know a good chunk of ppl playing at a highish master level.
As far as TL go, well sc2 general sucks hard, same as LR for mainstream tournaments but some LR are enjoyable, some post in the strat sub forum are interesting. The fact that bullshit is present isn't an excuse to be interested by it.
Zest fanboy.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
October 22 2012 16:52 GMT
#54
5 star post man.

I've been saying the same thing for a long time. Great post man, hopefully people will actually listen.
liftlift > tsm
Vod.kaholic
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1052 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-22 17:09:55
October 22 2012 17:07 GMT
#55
Good blog.

On the topic of SC2 fans feeling like they have to be the ones to uphold and push forward e-sports, I don't think it's a bad attitude in general. Hell, Day9 encouraged (maybe still encourages) people through some old dailies to basically be the change they want to see in the scene by getting involved in tournaments, casting, etc. Generally doing things to be involved in the community in a meaningful way.

When you point out that on LoL's end it's Riot who takes care of all the esports stuff, allowing the players to simply enjoy the results without stressing themselves about having ot make it happen, that's great. I guess what it boils down to is that because Riot provides more support for the "esports" end of their game than Blizzard seems to, the SC2 community takes on a much more personal relationship with the ups and downs of the game and the scene. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but when its coupled with Blizzard's perceived lack of interest in really developing SC2 as an esport, or having a good base for casuals, or whatever, people get angry because something they're invested in is changing in a negative way that's beyond their influence.

I don't like sounding like a Day9 fanboy, but if more people had his attitude and just honestly loved playing the game (whether it's 1v1 or team games or customs), the scene would be looking a lot better.

Overall though, I agree with your message, more positivity would be a good thing in our community, and it has to start with the individual.
._. \: |: /: .-. :\ :| :/ ._. They see me rolling...
MutaDoom
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada1163 Posts
October 22 2012 19:40 GMT
#56
On October 22 2012 23:55 ParkwayDrive wrote:
TL is about 85% an awful community. one of the worst ive been a part of. why? i dunno, but you cant change the people, they have to change themselves. let them kill their own game. ill still ladder in peace and break it up with a dota2 game.

When I read this I kind of wanted to shut my browser and quit the internet forever. But then I remembered: I have rapidly cut down the number of visits to TL over the past year, to the point of pretty well quitting. It isn't the negativity that does it for me, to be more specific it's the elitism. The SC2 pro-mod was the best example, "How the game was meant to be played." That's a bold statement. Now the SC2 community has gone overboard with the same elitist holier-than-thou attitude. So you don't like LoL? Don't read the LoL subreddit. Don't do to LoL fansites. Don't fucking play it. It's a simple concept.

This community used to be the shit. I used to wear my TL shirt around proudly, but now it's just another shirt, and this is just another site. Straight downhill.
snively
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States1159 Posts
October 22 2012 19:52 GMT
#57
awesome, insightful and well thought out blog.
gheed, you have my eternal respect

fave part:
On October 22 2012 10:08 Gheed wrote:

God save the kid that wanders into a PC gaming forum and mentions a console game.)


heheh
My religion is Starcraft
pigmanbear
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Angola2010 Posts
October 22 2012 19:59 GMT
#58
On October 23 2012 04:40 MutaDoom wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2012 23:55 ParkwayDrive wrote:
TL is about 85% an awful community. one of the worst ive been a part of. why? i dunno, but you cant change the people, they have to change themselves. let them kill their own game. ill still ladder in peace and break it up with a dota2 game.

When I read this I kind of wanted to shut my browser and quit the internet forever. But then I remembered: I have rapidly cut down the number of visits to TL over the past year, to the point of pretty well quitting. It isn't the negativity that does it for me, to be more specific it's the elitism. The SC2 pro-mod was the best example, "How the game was meant to be played." That's a bold statement. Now the SC2 community has gone overboard with the same elitist holier-than-thou attitude. So you don't like LoL? Don't read the LoL subreddit. Don't do to LoL fansites. Don't fucking play it. It's a simple concept.

This community used to be the shit. I used to wear my TL shirt around proudly, but now it's just another shirt, and this is just another site. Straight downhill.

Excellent post, and I couldn't agree more. All of this negativity, and regardless of what "waxangel" has to say (and I agree with IdrA on "waxangel"'s persona), it *is* stupid to attack negativity with a negative, bashing post. Gheed's post isn't changing anybody's mind at all, there is nothing persuasive about it.

I come to this website mostly to watch Minus)Eagle, ForGG, Sea, and a couple other people play, just because I prefer the interface to cluttered Own3D/Twitch. I come here to skim the blogs and read the occasional good one. With a few exceptions, it is a very negative place to be.

reddit.com/r/starcraft is far more negative and self-conscious these days though -- when silly stuff submitted there has to be tagged as "Fluff" ... do you really think I want to click that shit now? I already *knew* it was "Fluff", but you flaunt it in my face and make me feel like an idiot for clicking it.
Lysteria
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
France2280 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-22 20:46:58
October 22 2012 20:44 GMT
#59
On October 23 2012 04:40 MutaDoom wrote:
When I read this I kind of wanted to shut my browser and quit the internet forever. But then I remembered: I have rapidly cut down the number of visits to TL over the past year, to the point of pretty well quitting. It isn't the negativity that does it for me, to be more specific it's the elitism. The SC2 pro-mod was the best example, "How the game was meant to be played." That's a bold statement. Now the SC2 community has gone overboard with the same elitist holier-than-thou attitude. So you don't like LoL? Don't read the LoL subreddit. Don't do to LoL fansites. Don't fucking play it. It's a simple concept.

This community used to be the shit. I used to wear my TL shirt around proudly, but now it's just another shirt, and this is just another site. Straight downhill.


I have the same feeling as you.
As I'm not concerned by SC2 since forever, negativity doesn't really touch me, but the elitism, it's hard to handle. TL used to be an elitist site, on the bright side. Maybe the fact BW was almost nothing out of Korea - and if not for TL, it could have been simply dead - just made the people nicer. Hardcore fans, yeah, but always trying to fish some newbs like I was (and I was caught by it !). Like you, I no longer browse TL fifty times a day, but there are still nice dudes on this site. Can't tell for all the sub-forums but the ones I read the most (sports&games, blogs, LoL, BW, sometimes Dota2) are pretty decent.

I'm under the impression people waited too much from SC2, while BW was clearly a mistake in the world of e-sports. Damn me if Blizzard expected to grow - without doing anything to help it - one of the major e-sports game of all time. There was nothing before, and no competition. As a beginning, BW is an error and a huge success. More than 10 years later, the scene isn't the same anymore, people are watching tons of different games, and there isn't anymore a place for a single game at the king of them all.

I hope knowing the fact SC2 (neither any other game) can't be a "BW" will help to go through that negativity and that elitism, and will result with guys just enjoying their game and their scene. After all, TL is a "progaming news site", and if SC2 dies one day, well, people will just watch another game. It's quite sad to watch only one game after all, when there are so many fishes in the sea. :p
Gheed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States972 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-22 23:22:03
October 22 2012 22:59 GMT
#60
Imagine you live in an apartment. On the street outside your apartment, there is a pothole. Every day you go to check your mail and your neighbor from the apartment beside yours mentions "The pothole is still there." At first you think he's just trying to be helpful. Then, weeks go by. The pothole is still there. It seems to have gotten even bigger. Now your neighbor starts complaining about the city government, about how the mayor promised to increase the budget for the roads department, about how he's a crook and he wasn't going to vote for him next year, about how the whole political system is fucked beyond belief. This goes on and on for days and days until you eventually start to hate your irritating goddamn neighbor more than the actual pothole. You didn't make the pothole, and while you agree that it would be great if the city fixed it, you don't need some prick yelling about it to you every day.

Yes, SC2 has problems, but every fucking person in the community does not need to be constantly harping on it. WoL Thread: PvZvPvZvP, patch zergs, terran underpowered. HotS thread: Blizzard is retarded, game is broken, BW was better. Esports thread: Blizzard doesn't care about esports, casuals are killing esports with their shitty games. Any thread: player bashing, caster bashing, team bashing, bashing other games.

I haven't watched Day9's daily show in probably more than a year, but I decided to click on it yesterday and found that a bit more than 4000 people were watching him analyze a HotS game he was playing. Where are those 4000 people in the community who want to be better gamers? They aren't posting because any glimmer of positivity gets swallowed by the overwhelming blackness of hatred that a segement of the community has toward itself and others.

The easy thing to say is "well, just don't read threads, then." However, I like reading other people's opinions about shit. But when the only opinions that get through are the negative ones, not only is it hard to have any actual discussion, but the "discussion" that takes place ends up just making everyone feel miserable.
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