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NaNiWa and Hot Girls

Blogs > aLt)nirvana
Post a Reply
aLt)nirvana
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
Singapore848 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-07 17:44:57
October 07 2012 12:18 GMT
#1
Another blog with more random thoughts from me. This will be about NaNiWa, hot girls and why they are similar - in regards to them both having relative high value. And why they are able to get away with certain behavior otherwise normal people cannot. Warning, its quite a long read!!

[image loading]

Value
Like it or not, everyone is subconsciously judged and pegged with a value. I personally dislike this but have come to accept this is just the way things are. Why is value important? Because usually that is the 100% determining factor of your relative standing and thus how you will be treated. Be it by guys or girls. If you have a very high perceived value, people are going to treat you very well. And everyone wants to be treated well. The difference in treatment by the same people in some cases can be incredibly vast and unbelievable. Think of how people react to celebrities. Or say random NA caster duo and Tastosis.

Now for a more everyday scenario, consider two girls who are "10s" and "5s" in looks. Everything else held constant, the lives the girls lead with be extraordinarily different. I'm talking about the traffic stopping magazine cover true 10s. You can not imagine the amount of favours, discounts and bad behaviour the 10 can get away with her whole life. Or the never ending line of suitors. The "5" can even be a much better person but she will never get a fraction of the attention the 10 does. There is nothing you can do about that. This is the way the world works. Its pointless to hate people for having "double standards" because to some extent we all have them too. You can be bitter about this and become a angry man-hater or you can accept it as the way the world is and learn how to make the best of it.

Relative Value
Value by itself is far less important than relative value. No one cares about the 5 time in a row scrawny Scrabble World Champion if you're ship wrecked on a dangerous island. However the same guy is the supreme king of any Scrabble Club he walks into. Why do rich / successful people get treated well? It intersects most people's relative reference points. How is relative value determined? Its mostly through the persons reference point. What is important to you at this point life? Your career? Belonging to a group? Respect from people? Being good in Starcraft? Dating? These are the boundaries and goals you set for yourself that will define your "relative value" perception of someone.

You would assign a very high value to people who excel in these areas. They are people who have reached where you want to be. You look up to them and have respect for them. When they speak, their words have more importance. If you seem them in a sticky spot, you don't wait for them to ask for help, you offer it.

Now sometimes this attitude can become especially dangerous because people often confuse "high relative value" with being "a good person". They cannot distinguish between the two and this is also a common problem with many elitist, who assign double standards to normal people and people they have assigned "high relative value."

Scenario1: Starcraft Players and why NaNiWa get away with what he does.

When you're a top starcraft 2 player, the only other people that seem to matter are other top starcraft 2 players and sponsors. I've seen it many times where top players call each other "good friends". The people could barely know each other. Forget about them even knowing each others birthdays. Perhaps they just practise occasionally. Perhaps its nice to be associated with some other high level player. Despite the fact that he is a terrible person on many levels. You look past that.

That person has high relative value. You respect him. He is on "your level". It feels nice when he says good things about you. You want him to be your good friend. And therefore you think of him as such. Take away the "relative high value" element. Imagine he had the skill level of a bronzie. Looking at it from that perspective, would you still consider such a person as your good friend? If yes, well then he probably is, treasure your relationship with him.

But more often than not the answer will be no. He is a total asshole and the only way he has got to where he is, is by Starcraft skill alone. Without his "relative high value" you would be ashamed to even consider him your friend. He is NOT your good friend and definitely NOT a good person. You need to distinguish between "relative high value" and "a good person/friend" better! Do not treat him like the "amazing person" you think he is, because he is not. Hes just good at starcraft lol.

Scenario 2: Girls and why the hot ones get away with the stuff they do.

A more mainstream scenario would be the attitudes of men towards girls. Say you're single and your friend decides to match you up with one of her friends. She says shes awesome blabla and you guys will get along great. You eventually agree and ask to see her picture. Now the exact moment where you see her picture is going significantly dictate your attitudes and actions.

If she turns out to be a "10", you would suddenly become super keen to meet her. She could flake, act like a total brat and just be not a nice person. And deep down inside you know it. You will still go though with it, tolerate any crap and hope for the best. If shes a "5" you will agree to meet her anyway but think of it as just doing your friend a favour so as not to disappoint her. The moment she flakes, thats it, goodbye and you will never think of her again. Has this happened to you before? Well you probably wouldn't even remember.

This is a superficial bias present in nearly everyone. (Why am I even judging a person by a number? That is just sad but that is how the world is.) It is also the reason why it is desirable to be good looking. More importantly, you may also have been confused by the "Relative High Value" = "Good person concept". To you that 10 has incredibly high relative value and you may have rationalised her somehow to be a very good person too "worth" the sacrifices and bad behaviour. Because if she wasn't a good person then you would only be liking her for superficial reasons and you would never become someone like that right? You would be out the door instantly. So that's how you justify to yourself staying.

Many guys can get blinded. Some times it doesn't even have to be a 10. Maybe just a normal girl but if its the only girl who has expressed interest in him then she becomes a 10 to him. I've seen girls do terrible things to guys like that, who go hopelessly after them. Sometimes they even end up in toxic relationships with the girl having the upper hand all the way. Likewise it is the same way for guy "Players" who string girls along and play with their feelings. I'm sure we all know a friend who has become a victim like that. Their partner is the world to them and they keep saying how they are such an amazing person blablabla. She is not. He is not. They are terrible people. The problem is your friend cannot distinguish between their "relative value" and being a "good person". If your friend could he/she would have ended the relationship right away. Perhaps they feel they are the "highest value" people they could get. So they cling on to that relationship and justify staying in them because they are "really good people inside". They confuse value with character.

Double Standards?

As you realised, there could be a big difference in attitudes in two very similar scenarios. This is how the world works. We cannot change it, but we can change ourselves. There is no use being for e.g a bitter person that XXX gets so much more attention just because he/she is better looking / richer / more successful / whatever. That is useless and the path to the land of self pity and emo songs.

There is no fighting it. But that makes you wonder. Why not work towards being someone with "high relative value" then? If the world has two separate standards, one for people with high value who get treated better, why not be among that?

Conclusion


The first conclusion is to be aware of your perceptions of people. Learn to distinguish and do not mix up a persons value with them being a good person. The next is to realise that the world will not be able to do the same. And that doesn't mean you have to think like them, or be angry at them for thinking that way.

Focus your efforts into increasing your own relative value. Not just value alone. For instance you want to be in a job that you're good at. You get instant high value and recognition from your colleagues. Casting? Think Day9. Artoisis. The naturally analytical, personable and gifted. I'm sure you excel at something. Find out what.

If you're interested in dating, natural confidence is one of the biggest ways to increase your perceived relative value in that area. Learn how to develop it. There is a whole society dedicated to this and one of their cornerstone techniques is to demonstrate your "high value" to the girl asap. However much of that society is misguided and teaches unhealthy attitudes towards women so I will not link it.

If being good in Starcraft is your thing, read the strategy forums, guides, practise hard. Ask the pros for tips sometimes. Take up coaching. Then when you reach the top prepare for an avalanche of fan boys to pm you tips or asking for games, it all comes with the package of being "high value". And when they do, don't be an asshole to them. Remember you were once like them. Do not be the hot girl bitch. Be the hot girl who is also an awesome person. Think Boxer. Grubby. White Ra. Good people.

Work towards being important. Add value to people's lives. Be helpful, supportive, contribute, go beyond the average person and do your shit well. Be someone your friends want to have around. Do not think of it as an agenda expecting some future reward. That is the wrong way to go about it. Don't ever fake it. Just be a naturally good person and think of everything else that comes your way as a bonus. Very soon your relative value will increase and people all around you will be treating you better than before. This makes self-improvement become a very natural incentive. Opportunities will be thrown your way, your life will have much more meaning, you will feel happier and it will be something you have truly earned from being a good person.

Disclaimer: I very much love women, especially my wife. I also have a lot respect for NaNiWa as a player not a person. I'm not hating on anyone in this post and am just using them to illustrate my points.

***
sc2sea.com - The SEA / ANZ community
Facultyadjutant
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Sweden1876 Posts
October 07 2012 12:23 GMT
#2
The longer you get to know people, the less uglier they get. It´s really funny how that is.
#1 FAN OF TERRY THE INTERN - NONY AND IDRA NUMBER #1, EVERY DAY. AXIOM MANOR - Axiom: Ryung, Alicia, Heart and Crank under the Don TotalBiscuit and the Donnesa Genna Bain- Join the family http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396090#2
nihoh
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Australia978 Posts
October 07 2012 13:44 GMT
#3
This blog was not about NaNiWa's awkwardness around Hot Girls.
Dont look at the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory.
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
October 07 2012 13:57 GMT
#4
what an odd comparison, Naniwa gets so much shit from the SC2 mob, has so many haters..
+ Show Spoiler +
stephano would be a much better fit, talks about hasu gasing jews and one day later everyone forgets about it

And does he not get punished for his behaviour? Got thrown out of EPS, got his Code S spot taken away...

"If she turns out to be a "10", you would suddenly become super keen to meet her. She could flake, act like a total brat and just be not a nice person. And deep down inside you know it."
So because someone is really good looking , you know that she must be a bad person? prejudiced much?
beep boop
meteorskunk
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada546 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-07 14:10:26
October 07 2012 14:09 GMT
#5
This is the kind of post I love to see on TeamLiquid. Elements of social science being used to help gain perspective on the culture we live in. I have a some critiques. This post is advocating (rightly imo) looking past the superficial and yet it hates on a group itself "lesbo bitch" or whatever.

It could have been shortened. The main point is reached so slowly and implicitly in my opinion. To me, the point is simple. We confuse a person's actual goodness with his or her superficially good qualities such as exterior beauty and success.This is an inaccuracy in our thinking. Thus we ought to be mindful of it in order treat others in a way that is proportionate to their real worth as members of society.

In other words, get to the essence faster so that your analysis can build off of the foundation into greater heights. Good Ideas, however. 3.5/5 edit: rounded down to 3 because it's not a 4
Girl Blog Credentials: Comfortable talking to some women. Tried the sex once
(The Doctor)
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada40 Posts
October 07 2012 14:27 GMT
#6
On October 07 2012 22:57 7mk wrote:


"If she turns out to be a "10", you would suddenly become super keen to meet her. She could flake, act like a total brat and just be not a nice person. And deep down inside you know it."
So because someone is really good looking , you know that she must be a bad person? prejudiced much?


The OP said she COULD be a flake, not that she IS automatically a flake because she is a 10.
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
October 07 2012 14:38 GMT
#7
"And deep down inside you know it."
beep boop
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10622 Posts
October 07 2012 15:09 GMT
#8
i came here for the hot girls.

not a bad read though.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
PiGStarcraft
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Australia1004 Posts
October 07 2012 16:55 GMT
#9
On October 07 2012 23:38 7mk wrote:
"And deep down inside you know it."


He means, in the scenario of them flaking etc. You misunderstood.

Great read nirvana, such a great way to look at how we value each other as people. I Immediately identified lots of people in my life who I see in a skewed perspective because of this!
Progamerwww.twitch.tv/x5_pig | pigrandom88@gmail.com | @x5_PiG | www.facebook.com/pigSC2
CosmicSpiral
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States15275 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-07 18:14:54
October 07 2012 17:41 GMT
#10
It's a good read but I disagree on some of the points. There is no difference between "value in itself" and "relative value"; I think the OP draws a few senseless conclusions it talks about pro players and their relationships with each other; the idea that current social standards are 'the way things are' makes no sense when looking back at history.

WriterWovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
Aterons_toss
Profile Joined February 2011
Romania1275 Posts
October 07 2012 19:59 GMT
#11
You just explained to yourself why you so easily blame a player like Naniwa for being BM, and as previously mentioned, not better viewed/better results player like MC and Stephano tho they did things that could be considered way less mannered than anything Naniwa ever did.

A good strategy means leaving your opponent room to make mistakes
Luepert
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States1934 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-07 20:40:14
October 07 2012 20:37 GMT
#12
Naniwa has a great work ethic, antisocial personality, and is hated for everything he does. Idra, incontrol and huk all go out of their way in interviews just to talk badly about him. He did a stupid probe rush, get punished in a manner where GOM broke their word to maintain some warped idea of "honor."

The stereotype for hot girls is that don't work hard, say stupid shit, do stupid things, and get away with it.


I would more equate this with stephano. He brags about not practicing, gets kicked out of bars for being unruly, jokes about killing Jews, jokes about abusing 14 year olds sexually and nobody gives a flying fuck. His natural skill somehow makes it all ok. Just like for a hot girl who's physical attractiveness makes it ok for her to do stupid stuff.

Personally I prefer Naniwa over Stephano any day simply because he has a better work ethic. Also he has been held accountable for his mistakes so he actually learned form them, unlike Stephano.
esports
aLt)nirvana
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
Singapore848 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-07 22:12:37
October 07 2012 22:06 GMT
#13
Really enjoying these different perspectives, thanks for reading this and giving your comments

meteorskunk: Thanks, i definitely could have phrased it more eloquently and have removed those words. Silly me I just wanted to get a point across not hate on anyone. Opps!

Luepert & the guys mentioning the other players: I don't follow the scene too much nowadays so my views of players may be outdated. Stephano might actually be a much better example, thanks for bringing that point up. Those things you said he did sound scary but what's scarier is how everyone seems to accept it because of the player he is (because of the value he holds) whereas it wouldn't be tolerated if other maybe tier-b player did it. Which is really the whole point of this article.
sc2sea.com - The SEA / ANZ community
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
October 07 2012 23:06 GMT
#14
however this can go both ways, I think theres also things that when tier-b player xy does it noone cares about it, but if a famous player does that (naniwa would actually be a good example here) then it'll be blown out of proportion and people will immediately grab their pitchforks.
In this same way good looking successful women are often judged because of their looks and claims that they only got to where they are because of their looks come through. An example would be Charlize Theron and Halle Berry who had to make themselves look worse than they actually look to get an Academy Award.
beep boop
StateofReverie
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United States633 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-08 00:30:00
October 08 2012 00:27 GMT
#15
On October 07 2012 21:18 aLt)nirvana wrote:
Another blog with more random thoughts from me. This will be about NaNiWa, hot girls and why they are similar - in regards to them both having relative high value. And why they are able to get away with certain behavior otherwise normal people cannot. Warning, its quite a long read!!

[image loading]

Value
Like it or not, everyone is subconsciously judged and pegged with a value. I personally dislike this but have come to accept this is just the way things are. Why is value important? Because usually that is the 100% determining factor of your relative standing and thus how you will be treated. Be it by guys or girls. If you have a very high perceived value, people are going to treat you very well. And everyone wants to be treated well. The difference in treatment by the same people in some cases can be incredibly vast and unbelievable. Think of how people react to celebrities. Or say random NA caster duo and Tastosis.

Now for a more everyday scenario, consider two girls who are "10s" and "5s" in looks. Everything else held constant, the lives the girls lead with be extraordinarily different. I'm talking about the traffic stopping magazine cover true 10s. You can not imagine the amount of favours, discounts and bad behaviour the 10 can get away with her whole life. Or the never ending line of suitors. The "5" can even be a much better person but she will never get a fraction of the attention the 10 does. There is nothing you can do about that. This is the way the world works. Its pointless to hate people for having "double standards" because to some extent we all have them too. You can be bitter about this and become a angry man-hater or you can accept it as the way the world is and learn how to make the best of it.

Relative Value
Value by itself is far less important than relative value. No one cares about the 5 time in a row scrawny Scrabble World Champion if you're ship wrecked on a dangerous island. However the same guy is the supreme king of any Scrabble Club he walks into. Why do rich / successful people get treated well? It intersects most people's relative reference points. How is relative value determined? Its mostly through the persons reference point. What is important to you at this point life? Your career? Belonging to a group? Respect from people? Being good in Starcraft? Dating? These are the boundaries and goals you set for yourself that will define your "relative value" perception of someone.

You would assign a very high value to people who excel in these areas. They are people who have reached where you want to be. You look up to them and have respect for them. When they speak, their words have more importance. If you seem them in a sticky spot, you don't wait for them to ask for help, you offer it.

Now sometimes this attitude can become especially dangerous because people often confuse "high relative value" with being "a good person". They cannot distinguish between the two and this is also a common problem with many elitist, who assign double standards to normal people and people they have assigned "high relative value."

Scenario1: Starcraft Players and why NaNiWa get away with what he does.

When you're a top starcraft 2 player, the only other people that seem to matter are other top starcraft 2 players and sponsors. I've seen it many times where top players call each other "good friends". The people could barely know each other. Forget about them even knowing each others birthdays. Perhaps they just practise occasionally. Perhaps its nice to be associated with some other high level player. Despite the fact that he is a terrible person on many levels. You look past that.

That person has high relative value. You respect him. He is on "your level". It feels nice when he says good things about you. You want him to be your good friend. And therefore you think of him as such. Take away the "relative high value" element. Imagine he had the skill level of a bronzie. Looking at it from that perspective, would you still consider such a person as your good friend? If yes, well then he probably is, treasure your relationship with him.

But more often than not the answer will be no. He is a total asshole and the only way he has got to where he is, is by Starcraft skill alone. Without his "relative high value" you would be ashamed to even consider him your friend. He is NOT your good friend and definitely NOT a good person. You need to distinguish between "relative high value" and "a good person/friend" better! Do not treat him like the "amazing person" you think he is, because he is not. Hes just good at starcraft lol.

Scenario 2: Girls and why the hot ones get away with the stuff they do.

A more mainstream scenario would be the attitudes of men towards girls. Say you're single and your friend decides to match you up with one of her friends. She says shes awesome blabla and you guys will get along great. You eventually agree and ask to see her picture. Now the exact moment where you see her picture is going significantly dictate your attitudes and actions.

If she turns out to be a "10", you would suddenly become super keen to meet her. She could flake, act like a total brat and just be not a nice person. And deep down inside you know it. You will still go though with it, tolerate any crap and hope for the best. If shes a "5" you will agree to meet her anyway but think of it as just doing your friend a favour so as not to disappoint her. The moment she flakes, thats it, goodbye and you will never think of her again. Has this happened to you before? Well you probably wouldn't even remember.

This is a superficial bias present in nearly everyone. (Why am I even judging a person by a number? That is just sad but that is how the world is.) It is also the reason why it is desirable to be good looking. More importantly, you may also have been confused by the "Relative High Value" = "Good person concept". To you that 10 has incredibly high relative value and you may have rationalised her somehow to be a very good person too "worth" the sacrifices and bad behaviour. Because if she wasn't a good person then you would only be liking her for superficial reasons and you would never become someone like that right? You would be out the door instantly. So that's how you justify to yourself staying.

Many guys can get blinded. Some times it doesn't even have to be a 10. Maybe just a normal girl but if its the only girl who has expressed interest in him then she becomes a 10 to him. I've seen girls do terrible things to guys like that, who go hopelessly after them. Sometimes they even end up in toxic relationships with the girl having the upper hand all the way. Likewise it is the same way for guy "Players" who string girls along and play with their feelings. I'm sure we all know a friend who has become a victim like that. Their partner is the world to them and they keep saying how they are such an amazing person blablabla. She is not. He is not. They are terrible people. The problem is your friend cannot distinguish between their "relative value" and being a "good person". If your friend could he/she would have ended the relationship right away. Perhaps they feel they are the "highest value" people they could get. So they cling on to that relationship and justify staying in them because they are "really good people inside". They confuse value with character.

Double Standards?

As you realised, there could be a big difference in attitudes in two very similar scenarios. This is how the world works. We cannot change it, but we can change ourselves. There is no use being for e.g a bitter person that XXX gets so much more attention just because he/she is better looking / richer / more successful / whatever. That is useless and the path to the land of self pity and emo songs.

There is no fighting it. But that makes you wonder. Why not work towards being someone with "high relative value" then? If the world has two separate standards, one for people with high value who get treated better, why not be among that?

Conclusion


The first conclusion is to be aware of your perceptions of people. Learn to distinguish and do not mix up a persons value with them being a good person. The next is to realise that the world will not be able to do the same. And that doesn't mean you have to think like them, or be angry at them for thinking that way.

Focus your efforts into increasing your own relative value. Not just value alone. For instance you want to be in a job that you're good at. You get instant high value and recognition from your colleagues. Casting? Think Day9. Artoisis. The naturally analytical, personable and gifted. I'm sure you excel at something. Find out what.

If you're interested in dating, natural confidence is one of the biggest ways to increase your perceived relative value in that area. Learn how to develop it. There is a whole society dedicated to this and one of their cornerstone techniques is to demonstrate your "high value" to the girl asap. However much of that society is misguided and teaches unhealthy attitudes towards women so I will not link it.

If being good in Starcraft is your thing, read the strategy forums, guides, practise hard. Ask the pros for tips sometimes. Take up coaching. Then when you reach the top prepare for an avalanche of fan boys to pm you tips or asking for games, it all comes with the package of being "high value". And when they do, don't be an asshole to them. Remember you were once like them. Do not be the hot girl bitch. Be the hot girl who is also an awesome person. Think Boxer. Grubby. White Ra. Good people.

Work towards being important. Add value to people's lives. Be helpful, supportive, contribute, go beyond the average person and do your shit well. Be someone your friends want to have around. Do not think of it as an agenda expecting some future reward. That is the wrong way to go about it. Don't ever fake it. Just be a naturally good person and think of everything else that comes your way as a bonus. Very soon your relative value will increase and people all around you will be treating you better than before. This makes self-improvement become a very natural incentive. Opportunities will be thrown your way, your life will have much more meaning, you will feel happier and it will be something you have truly earned from being a good person.

Disclaimer: I very much love women, especially my wife. I also have a lot respect for NaNiWa as a player not a person. I'm not hating on anyone in this post and am just using them to illustrate my points.

so by 100% determining factor, do you mean it is the ONLY thing that will determine value? I don't think it's fair to judge how women value men unless you actually ask them and find out.

Also how do you know what happens on a subconscious level if it is subconscious? here is an example.

Lets say my value is being a awesome closet billionaire, but I dress in sweats and a hoodie. Then a "10" approaches me. When she sees me, does she subconsciously recognize that I am a billionaire and so see value in me? Or does she label me as a "no one" and continue on her way?
EffervescentAureola
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States410 Posts
October 08 2012 01:13 GMT
#16
Why did you put a random picture of Emma Stone?:p
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