EPT[Vent] Morons, I got morons on my team. - Page 2
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United States163 Posts
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Sakray
France2198 Posts
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Myrtroll
139 Posts
 (in my country 25% of 8 year olds were overweight now, that is more scary) | ||
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Ahzz
Finland780 Posts
However, on the other hand I also think that your attitude is not very good. So you have a talented group that does well with your way of teaching --- good for you, but you have to adjust the way you teach according to the class. It basically sounds like you're a very smart person, and a person who loves math, but you have trouble relating to young minds who have less interest in the subject. Easier said than done, yes, but the last thing you want to do is give up. Keep trying your best. You give them your best shot, and even if it doesn't work, you're that much more knowledgeable. Just don't give up, and especially think carefully about your attitude. While I understand very well where you are coming from, the fact is that it's not completely their fault. Yes, you cannot be blamed too much because you just begun. NOBODY should demand perfection. However, your responsibility is to give your best shot every single day. I also realize that it's going to be very hard to regain their respect so much that they'll keep quiet and try their best to learn.... But never go to the class with the attitude that you've given up. I am also studying to become a maths teacher, and I suggest trying out some of these things... -Start a class by asking the whole class what their goals are. What do they want from math? Do they have a specific grade that they'd like to have. If they get unruly, you can remind them that this isn't exactly going towards their goals. If they set the goals THEMSELVES, it has way more power than something you try to set them, because they understand that they dig their own grave. -Don't let the class get to the point where they all talk. This is obviously a tough class to handle, so you need to be strict from the beginning. If the whole class talks, you let it get too far. In other words, the moment the FIRST person starts talking his own thing, interrupt him and tell him to listen to you. If you don't let the first one talk, they wont talk as a group. If the same person persists, throw him out. -Another thing you may want to try (which slightly contradicts with the above) is, along with discussing their goals, propose something like 'lets try to have fun while working hard'. My uncle who was a very succesful math's teacher tried to have this philosophy in his class, and it was very succesful. It basically fools them to thinking they have actual freedom in the class if they just do what they're told properly. Of course, this requires you to give small breaks in between the teaching, tell stories, etc. -I feel that a very strong argument towards their lack of motivation is that they simply DON'T KNOW where their interests lie, or their talents. By ignoring the subject completely they close away TONS AND TONS of careers that can take them very far in life. And this is only because they never gave math a CHANCE. They really can't argue much against that logic. Even if they try their best and get mediocre results, it still affects a lot on which college they apply to, a lot of jobs respect your math grades, and it has everyday uses too. Besides, if the teacher spends a lot of time preparing for as interesting of a lesson as he can, its their job to do homework and at least TRY. You can tell them that there is no point in games where the teacher wants to make their studying and school life miserable, a game of tactics against the students if you will, because whats the point if they don't try? Just tell them straight up how it is, the arguments and methods I provided are just an example which I will use for any problem students after I graduate  Be strict. Don't give up. If you are strict and never give them more leash during class, controlling them as a whole will be easier too. If there are a few specific individuals who always cause trouble and disrupt and mess up the whole class, pick them out and talk to them, face to face after class. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
As someone who has seen what goes on in French schools I know personally that it can be quite, quite tough for teachers to get anything into their students' thick heads. Believe me when you see the attitude of some kids these days. No respect for teachers or anything. Some of them are actually quite fucking stupid as well and do everything possible to just either piss the teacher off and not get any work done. These people actually exist and I've seen them in action myself. I have a few family members who work as teachers. I've also read accounts of teachers who talk about poor classes. I've heard of such accounts from friends who were in such classes. Unfortunately vodka, to be polite, you're completely ignorant about the situation of some schools in France where terrible kids do exist, who have irresponsible parents who are hardly better. So there's no need to be a dick to the OP and tell him his attitude is complete shit. This isn't the first time I've seen this kind of vent post from a French teacher. I'm GLAD that this particular teacher actually cares enough about his students to get annoyed when they don't listen. OP himself said that they're ruining their future. 4/20 is self explanatory, no one should get those sort of grades. So vodka, please be quiet. You don't know what you're talking about, you haven't ever taught anything nor do you see what happens in France. I agree with OP shit talking about his students on the internet. Believe me, I'm forcing myself to be much more polite than I'd like to be with you. Just please don't talk shit when you don't know what you're talking about. | ||
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Epishade
United States2267 Posts
Now that you've got them separated, this should eliminate a lot of the talking. If they continue to talk to whomever is around them, then you ramp up the punishment. Give them a warning first. If they continue again later in class, give them a homework assignment (LOL). But don't punish the whole class with a homework assignment if just a few people screw it up. Say you'll take the assignment away at the end if they behave. Who doesn't hate homework? Now that they've gotten the idea that being a dumbass in class = homework, this should clear up most of your idle chatter. If they don't do the homework, call home or give them detention or something. Just start being more forceful and punishing. My forensics class teacher never punishes students. Sure he yells at them and tells them to quiet down, but 10 seconds after he tells them that, the students start running their mouths again. I'm constantly wishing he was a bit more eager to hand out punishments. It's ridiculous how many times he has to stop class. It sounds like you have a similar dilemma so I think you should try my method. yours truly, -Hewhohateshisclassmates | ||
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SickeL
110 Posts
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
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Mstring
Australia510 Posts
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keioh
France1099 Posts
On October 05 2012 02:33 Vod.kaholic wrote: Have you heard of self-fulfilling prophecies, or the pygmalion effect in teaching? Here are some interesting links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygmalion_effect http://www.cehs.ohio.edu/gfx/media/pdf/kelsey.pdf (40-something page paper) http://blogs.edweek.org/teachers/teaching_now/2011/04/gifted_as_a_self-fulfilling_prophesy.html (the opposite applies too, students treated as incapable, surprise surprise, remain that way). I'm going to qualify my next statement by saying that although I've never taught a math class myself, I have taught dance classes, I have seen this bias, and have some teaching experience (tangential as it may be, I wasn't the only one teaching those kids). Here it comes: I think your attitude towards your students is complete shit and you need to look at yourself first before you start piling all the failures at their feet. You just started teaching this year, this is your first class (I've browsed your previous blogs). Sure you might expect your students to be capable of more given that they've been taking math classes longer than you've been teaching them, but for fuck's sake, you've been teaching for LESS THAN A MONTH, with no prior experience. Starting from the assumption that your students are the stupid ones when you're operating with so little experience and knowledge yourself just stinks of incompetence and a terrible attitude of passing the blame along. Yes there are going to be students, even classrooms and schools of students that are unruly as all hell, I don't know what's been happening in French schools, but it's still your responsibility to bring order to your classroom My advice to you is to read up more on pedagogy, take seminars, examine your own teaching habits compared to what other teachers in your school are doing, ask others for help. Just do everything you can to make sure you're actually capable of teaching and building a good classroom environment before you go shit-talking your students on the internet. Ok, so while I find your words aggressive, I will answer nicely. Like I said, it was a vent blog. I needed to let some steam out. At the time I wrote this part, I just got back from school and the day was awful. I vented and while I vented, I was reading what I was writing. And I felt bad. And to those who think venting is useless, I am glad you are undestructible robots who can endure every shit throw at them, even if it's the first time you receive a certain kind of shit you were not used to : society needs you. If I wrote the post with the exact mindset I had when I got home and started the computer, then everybody in the world could have seen that I was talking shit about them. That I despised them. That they were like a immense pile of shit I had to take care of without gloves. And so on. As I was writing the beta version of the blog, I realized I was angry at them. and that it was bad : it is not their only fault. They are kids. This is why I wrote lines about the negative feelings I had for them, but it seems that those lines were not understood as they were meant to. I don't know if you can imagine the amount of culpability I feel everytime I fail an hour with a class. Sure, it's not at the exact time I end the lesson. Sometimes, it's when I am at house. Sometimes it's when I am playing a game. Sometimes, it's when I want to sleep. Sometimes, it wakes me up in the night. It's been a month since I started, and I questionned myself almost every day, as well as the content of my lessons. Is this too hard ? Too easy ? Am I too strict ? Not Enough ? Should I emphasize this or that ? Why can't I obtain basic attention ? Am I uninteresting ? How can I be more ? Wait, there is not enough training exercises there. Oh wait, do they even know this ? Should I do some more revisions ? Fuck, we already spent two weeks on this, they still can't get it ? But when will I start next chapter ? And the other class has already finish this one and the average grade are twice better than them ? Wow, I should differentiate my lessons. But wait, I can't spent 3 weeks on this basics, because of those 8 particular kids who already are bored, they will create disorder. I must give them harder work. Wait, I didn't even start to write the content and it's already 9 pm ! Oh you're right, I didn't look at myself here, I had not the time to do so. But that's okay, I can just look at myself later. Like during the night. Or maybe during the class. You know, those awkward moments when your teacher can't decide if he must punish you, the class, or not, and when your friends are laughing their ass off, other are sighing, other are sleeping, other are asking him questions without even waiting for him to let them speak. I did sure think they were all morons when I took their tests and started to put grades ranging from E- to C- on basic middle-school knowledge they did work for the previous 2 years of their life. You're right, I was totally thinking "gosh, they're retarded lol, it's not my fault because my explanations were perfect lolol, I already too good at teaching I should reroll." Did you really think I tried to be a teacher with this kind of thoughts in the first place ? If I had only those feelings, I would not have spent 2 years of my fucking life to obtain that concours, I would have stick to SCIENCE and I would have lost some years trying to obtain that Ph. D I wanted to have so bad it is hurting my heart and my mind now when I read REAL maths. I didn't start with the assumption they were stupid. And they are not. How can I know ? Hell they handle me better than I handle them. They know perfectly how the punishment system is done and what I won't do because I still feel the need to try to give to all of them the best lesson I can. And guess what ? When they are silent and attentive for JUST SOME MINUTES I get good answers and enlightment in their eyes, and you know what, they even use my explanations to create their own solution to homework. And guess more : when they just read their paper where what I wanted them to learn is written, they most of the time read it correctly. So why don't they want to stay attentive for at least 30 minutes ? Why can't they follow my advices ? Why don't they just listen to me ? As one TLer put it, this is my job. I have to take account of 40 students and do 40 different lessons in one hour - I try to do so. And is it also my job to force them to be interested and to make them work ? This is what I really question nowadays : those kids don't want to do maths. Why do we force them ? Basic teachings ? Try to explain this to them, that's what other teachers tried in middle-school. Now next time you read "[Vent]" in front of an entry in this blog, be sure that you'll have the feeling I hate my work and kids and that I'm an elitist asshole. And I truly hope my next entry won't be venting. | ||
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StateofReverie
United States633 Posts
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fxsoldier
68 Posts
Judging from what you wrote, you will do a good job ~~ if you just have some patience you will solve all those problems slowly. You have a tryhard mindset in teaching it seems, and tryhards always go far :D Some people like ahzz have a very good point in this thread. If i could suggest something, try to get a grip on what are the students goals (i guess all of them want to pass the year at least) and try to help them reach it. (if they want high grades make it clear that it will require some cooperation. Also, if they want to just barely pass, you will need to adjust what are you doing a bit probably. There are always a few people aiming higher and a few aiming lower, but try to get an average and go by it ) I always thought teachers should present themselves more like "masters" , people with vast knowledge of their subject, that are at [WILLING] students disposal, and whose time shouldnt be wasted by retarded, or just unmotivated people like the past me, rather than those guys that are forced to teach everybody, even if nobody wants it. | ||
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docvoc
United States5491 Posts
On October 05 2012 02:12 hypercube wrote: I went to primary school in the late 80s, early 90s (yes, I'm that old) and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Yes, we had discipline. We also had absolute silence for our 50 minute classes and corporal punishment (not after the fall of communism though). It wasn't an environment that fostered a love for learning and knowledge. Guess what, we had generations who were taught obedience to authority and the idea that might makes right. It didn't turn out too well. I doubt a generation of self-entitled idiots will do much worse. Even though I'm a young man, not even done with highschool, I was going to say something like what you said about the discipline thing. People saying that "kids these days have no discipline!" have been around since the beginning of time. Furthermore as we have learned from conformity studies in psychology, being taught to respect authority blindly and not having to be controlled by it without consent is a bad thing. It's important for kids to be self-motivated and to learn that way and not to be motivated simply by punishment. About the OP: I really think your expectations for middle school kids are off. Your higher level class is that becauase they get the material, and your lower level class is put there because they don't. Now from that second group there are some smart kids that have no sort of motivation, and your punishment is hurting this even more. Another part includes the kids that would understand if you were to increase your patience in helping them, maybe write something like, "You were so close! Please come after school so I can help you get this right next time." Finally there will be idiots in the class too, but instead of giving up on them so prematurely, why don't you try to win them over and make them enjoy you, if they enjoy you they will learn. EDIT: I read the OP's reply and now I feel bad, I'm sorry my comment was so pointed I was just a bit annoyed because I see teachers vent about this, especially in middle-highschool, and it annoys me when I see them give up on students prematurely. At least that is what it seemed like, I'm sorry if I was too harsh in my comment. | ||
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United States163 Posts
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rei
United States3593 Posts
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